What's the point..

[MPE]

Of making a game with bad AI and no multiplayer?... If this were any other game people would have given up on it long ago.


This game desperately needs:

1. Better AI
2. End game replay and graphs
3. Zoom out to global view
4. River graphics fixed
5. Multiplayer chat/mods
6. More techs/units for future era
7. 1 or 2 more leaders for each Civ
8. Luxury resource display
9. Hotseat
10. MP animations
11. Espionage
12. Music that changes when you zoom in/out
13. More units for classical era
14. Make city states more interesting
15. Make barbarians less annoying
16. Better Diplomacy
17. More trade options

I could keep going and going and going....

[wyldmn]

Of making a game with bad AI and no multiplayer?... If this were any other game people would have given up on it long ago.


This game desperately needs:

1. Better AI
2. End game replay and graphs
3. Zoom out to global view
4. River graphics fixed
5. Multiplayer chat/mods
6. More techs/units for future era
7. 1 or 2 more leaders for each Civ
8. Luxury resource display
9. Hotseat
10. MP animations
11. Espionage
12. Music that changes when you zoom in/out
13. More units for classical era
14. Make city states more interesting
15. Make barbarians less annoying
16. Better Diplomacy
17. More trade options

I could keep going and going and going....

1. Agree partially, I have seen the AI makes some very good attacks, but other times not.
2. Don't care worthless item to me. The game is over play another.
3. Why? just fluff issue, don't care.
4. Personal taste issue, I can lie with the rivers as is, other items are more important.
5. There is chat in MP, I have used it several times, personally use Teamspeak in MP.
6. Maybe.
7. Sounds like you want Civ4. Would you buy Civ5 if it was exactly the same as Civ4?
8. Could be added at some time, I only look at Luxury when I trade with other civs.
9. Hotseat the rabid item of some people, never have or will use, games take to long. We use multiple PCs (7 one night) and no one has to keep changing chairs.
10. Another item that is worthless, turned off animations starting with Civ4. No one in my group misses them.
11. Liked it in Civ4, my friends hated it.
12. Fluff, could care less.
13. I have certain units I use and don't build all of them now. Maybe Techs could cost even more and slow eras.
14. How?
15. Barbarians are supposed to be annoying, we play with raging Barbarians in MP and SP. You can turn them off, it is in the advanced options.
16. Agreed, but you do have to make trades, even if they are not equal to make some Civs happier with you.
17. What kind of trade options?

[jpbar81]

8. Luxury resource display

Economic Overview > click on "Resources and Happiness" to switch the display

12. Music that changes when you zoom in/out

Come on now...


Also, I know it's not in order of priority, but I'm surprised to see "Better Diplomacy" at #16. That would have been one of the first things off the top of my head if I was making a list.

Some of them I agree with. What about this one being added to it: a visual Global Politics screen. You know, the leader avatars circled around a web of lines. The other screen was very helpful too; I forget what it was called since I haven't played Civ4 in such a long time. The numerical matrix screen which displayed leader attitudes towards one another. That one was nice too, but the "web" one is definitely needed with or without the matrix one.

I'm also surprised "Religion" isn't up there.

[MPE]

5. There is chat in MP, I have used it several times, personally use Teamspeak in MP.

I'm talking about an official lobby like most games made in the last 10 years have...you know to organize games? (other than the civ players league steam lobby)

7. Sounds like you want Civ4. Would you buy Civ5 if it was exactly the same as Civ4?

Yes but with hex tiles and tactical combat.

My list was in no particular order btw..and most of your suggestions aren't even for what I'm talking about.

In my opinion this is a perfect example of a big game developer getting lazy with the success of their games..

I don't really care that much anymore though, since I just got Galactic Civs 2 I probably wont be playing this crap game anymore lol.

[oblio]

The point is its a game... its not perfect but is anything perfect...yes it can be improved and tweaked and changed etc. etc. but it is what it is and its not Civ 4 BTS or Star whatsit or Checkers.... and its fun to play as is.

The point of making this game is a million copies have been sold and its being played and enjoyed by many, many people as is. And its getting better... and there will be more DLC's.... and there will be expansion packs.

The point is that it appeals as is to the vast majority of people who bought it who will not be on this forum and don't care about MP and most or anything that you have listed. Sure - nice to have's but stop playing because they are not there, garbage...

The point is its Civ 5 and doesn't have those things because the designer chose to not include them or didn't think about them but the game is still "complete", playable and enjoyable as is.

The point is that anyone that doesn't like the game as is can stop playing while the rest of us enjoy what we have without second guessing the authors... life's too short to waste time on woulda, shoulda, coulda. Don't like a movie - walk out, don't like a tv show -change the channel, don't like a game - stop playing.... Gee, I didn''t like the ending of Avatar so I will send James Cameron a letter demanding changes so the humans beat the locals while wearing red tuxedos and I want the music to be Bach only or I won't watch the movie again....

[bronzeager]

this is ridiculous...a lot of the things you mentioned weren't even in Civ IV until 2 expansions had been released (espionage (which is completely not fun anyway) and multiple leaders).

have some patience, sheesh... this game is plenty fun, even if the rivers look bad

[MPE]

"the game is still "complete", playable and enjoyable as is. "


Lol you have got to be kidding me...a million copies were sold based on the reputation of the earlier games, not this crap fest.

[MPE]

this is ridiculous...a lot of the things you mentioned weren't even in Civ IV until 2 expansions had been released (espionage (which is completely not fun anyway) and multiple leaders).

have some patience, sheesh... this game is plenty fun, even if the rivers look bad

Why release a sequel without features from the previous game? When your making a game thats supposed to be a sequel to one of the best games ever, they better be prepared to go above and beyond that previous game with features and quality of gameplay...this game shouldn't have been released at all in its current state.

[Onandoga]

Some of these requests are kind pretty stupid (no offense)

-Rivers i heard were good on civ5 unless your on DX9. i cant confirm it, as i run the game on civ5. Honestly, river graphics arent detrimental to the game....
-Zoomout music... really? I dont recall this as being in civ4... (if you zoomed into a city it would play the civs theme song)
-More techs for future era, there has never been a civilization game with lots of future techs. In civ4 they included a MOD that added it...
-More trade options...? elaborate on this.
-Make barbarians less annoying. Okay, ill tell firaxis to have the barbarians stop acting so barbarious. maybe theyll bake cookies instead.
-Civ has never made an mp bracket, its always been player organized. There are multiple steam groups besides civplayers. and there is ingame chat. iv had a lot of good convos on them.

[MPE]

The music in Civ 4 did change when you zoom in/out...not a big deal, but my real point was that the music in V really sucks compared to IV...and its just another example of lazy developers.

In most games of V I've played, the barbarians are doing more than the AI Civs...its ridiculous and annoying.
The quests to kill them for city states are stupid, and if you disable them it just makes city states even more boring....they also need to bring back wildlife and random events.
The only way the AI Civs can compete is by raising the difficulty level to give them huge production bonuses....no real strategy at all from them.

[Onandoga]

i like the music in civ5. i also liked it in civ4. But civ4 music was the exact same every game every era. i like the variety with different civs in civ5 more.

Plus the point of barbarians is to be as annoying as possible. for them to be not annoying defeats the point of them.:P

[oblio]

"the game is still "complete", playable and enjoyable as is. "


Lol you have got to be kidding me...a million copies were sold based on the reputation of the earlier games, not this crap fest.

Sure, like many I bought it on the first day because of the prior versions and the reviews but I have more than 250 hours into it with no complaints. Its a game.... for $49.99 I have more than my monies worth in entertainment value and looking forward to the next interations. I will buy the next version. Perhaps it didn't meet your expectations but to each their own and I'd suggest you are not a representative sample of the buyers of this game and perhaps none of us on this forum are.

[MPE]

Barbarians wouldnt be so bad if your XP wasnt capped after killing so many of them....of course Im sure someone would find a way to exploit that.

Also the missions to kill barbs should give a little more influence with city states, right now it doesn't seem worth it.

[jpbar81]

Also...

1. Better AI
Definitely, yes!

2. End game replay and graphs
Would be nice. Personally, I don't care much for the replay, mainly the graphs I want to see.

3. Zoom out to global view
Not really a big deal; I don't really miss it. Would be nice I guess for those rare times I feel like zooming all the way out so I can go, "Oooh, preeeetty..."

Though, now that I think about it, what WOULD be cool is if we were able to maximize the minimap to full screen. To get a grand, flat view of the world (kinda like you're looking at a game of Risk, lol). That would be pretty nice and somewhat useful. It could also display "static" display options of your choice like the strategy view except you can't move stuff on it or interact with it because it might be too taxing performance-wise (or maybe it wouldn't; I don't know...).

4. River graphics fixed
Agreed!! Even under DX11, they look like poop. Ice doesn't look so great either and sometimes there's graphical glitches with it.

5. Multiplayer chat/mods
I don't play multiplayer, but sure, why not? Maybe some time down the road once other more important things are dealt with. Also, doesn't Steam already provide that social stuff like a friends list, chat, etc? Though, I guess it's distracting to have to Shift+Tab out of the game while playing others. But to be fair, Civ really isn't a multiplayer game. It's just an extra feature thrown in.

6. More techs/units for future era
Most games don't even make it that far. Doesn't the future era have enough unit options? Well, I guess I'm thinking about the modern era... so you want more sci-fi stuff like robots and cyborgs? Peronally, I'll pass. You have to be careful when added more "future" stuff because it turns the classic Civ into more of a sci-fi game, like Call to Power.

7. 1 or 2 more leaders for each Civ
I actually prefer the single leader for each civ right now. Also, with new leaders would have to come new special abilites alongside them (because leaders have unique personalities). New unique abilites which would need to be balanced with the existing unique units/buildings. For example, I rather not have a favorite unique unit or building nerfed for an existing leader just because of how it works under the other new leader's special ability for the same civ.

If more was added to the game, I would rather see more unique civs than just new leaders to existing civs. In Civ4, I didn't like how certain civs had so many leaders while others still only had one.

8. Luxury resource display
Again, Economic Overview > click on "Resources and Happiness" to switch the display.

9. Hotseat
It would be a nice feature added down the road. Perhaps I could get my wife interested in the game and challenge her to a match.

10. MP animations
Agreed, I can't see myself ever playing multiplayer without animations. It may speed-up the game, and cause less conflicts while playing in real time, but I still think it's very much needed. We're not playing a chess computer game, it's Civ, and we need some nice enhancements and graphics/animations which immerse you into the game.

11. Espionage
I would very much like to see this implemented into the game. Hopefully they revolutionize this aspect of the series too because I don't think Civ4 got it quite right. It could be much, much better... and now's the chance to do it with all these new game mechanics.

12. Music that changes when you zoom in/out
<sigh> ... and all Civ4 did was gradually drown-out the background music and played the diplomacy music of the nearest city's leader when zoomed-in.

13. More units for classical era
I'm not really sure if this is needed. What purpose would they serve in the balance of things? More isn't always necessarily better.

14. Make city states more interesting
I agree with this.

15. Make barbarians less annoying
I'm not sure what you mean by this. What do you mean by "annoying"? You can always disable them if you dislike seeing them (though, you'll have less city-state requests). Or you can always set it to "raging" if there's not enough of them to put up a challenge for you.

16. Better Diplomacy
Agreed!! More interactions and options. More unique flavor text. More ways of gaining positive diplomacy modifiers to balance out all the negative diplomacy modifiers which are so easily obtainable. Maybe thru things such as open borders, trade agreements, years without conflict, etc.

17. More trade options
Perhaps. What do you mean by more trade options? As in, more diplomatic things alongside the existing defensive pacts, open borders, and research agreements? Like, a general "trade agreement"?

[bronzeager]

i'd also like to add that the barbarians in Civ V are MUCH less annoying than in Civ IV. Why?

They don't take your cities
They don't raze your cities
They don't kill your settlers/workers

The XP cap was present in Civ IV as well, iirc

[MPE]

Okay I admit thats one area they are less annoying, but that has more to do with how the cities are designed in Civ V.

My main complaint is that on larger maps I feel like I'm fighting more wars with Barbs than the other Civs, constantly babysitting my workers (so they dont get captured) and not getting any xp after killing a few of them. I can turn them off but would rather just turn the camp spawn rate down a bit since they are needed for city states. (city states are already too simple) Also the wildlife in Civ IV was more fun to kill than the generic barbs in V.

[jpbar81]

My main complaint is that on larger maps I feel like I'm fighting more wars with Barbs than the other Civs, constantly babysitting my workers (so they dont get captured) and not getting any xp after killing a few of them. I can turn them off but would rather just turn the camp spawn rate down a bit since they are needed for city states. (city states are already too simple) Also the wildlife in Civ IV was more fun to kill than the generic barbs in V.

So, basically you want barbs that can't enter your cultural borders; like wildlife. That way, you can ignore them and they won't bother you until you venture out and expand/explore or fulfill city-state requests.

Oh, and that also give limitless xp so you can farm blitz/logistics units.

Not my cup of tea, but everybody likes to play the game differently.

[bronzeager]

another point about barbs: Civ IV didn't have adjustable levels either. you either had normal, raging, or none. Civ III was the last game with tweakable levels, iirc.

a lot of people see Civ IV with rosy glasses these days, thinking it was the best game ever in the history of mankind. really, it had it's share of flaws too, just like Civ V.

[jpbar81]

a lot of people see Civ IV with rosy glasses these days, thinking it was the best game ever in the history of mankind. really, it had it's share of flaws too, just like Civ V.

Quoted for frickin' truth. Civ4 was a great game, but it had its share of flaws too. Along with bugs and exploits both when it was first released and after BTS. It also had TWO expansions added to enhance it. Also, I personally couldn't play Civ4 BTS without the Better AI mod to enhance its AI and the BUG mod to enhance its lacking interface. I think both mods were created long after vanilla Civ4 was released; probably after BTS was released.

I could never go back to things like stacks of doom and suiciding siege units, along with some other things. People rip apart Civ5 and focus on its "current" flaws, but they forget about all the revolutionary great changes it brought to the series. With all the drastic changes to game mechanics, we're lucky the game isn't in a worse state like it could've been.

[nawrot]

This game needs faster AI turns. When one unit takes 20 turns to build, waiting 1-2 minutes per turn is way too long. Its not 1992 anymore when PCs struggled to count 2+2. I cannot imagine why so long AI calculations produce so puny results, looks like there is no optimization at all i even could bet that they added some additional delay loops just for the lulz.

[Wodan11]

My main complaint is that on larger maps I feel like I'm fighting more wars with Barbs than the other Civs, constantly babysitting my workers (so they dont get captured) and not getting any xp after killing a few of them. I can turn them off but would rather just turn the camp spawn rate down a bit since they are needed for city states. (city states are already too simple) Also the wildlife in Civ IV was more fun to kill than the generic barbs in V.

That "problem" exists in IV as well. The solution was to add more civs than the default, for larger maps, using the custom game startup.

That said, having a "Barb spawn rate" dial would be nice.

[brxbrx]

what's the point of making these kinds of threads?

[jacypr]

what's the point of making these kinds of threads?

I believe it's the same as of making these kinds of posts.

What do you have against discussion in a forum? What are forums useful for if not to discuss?

Of making a game with bad AI and no multiplayer?... If this were any other game people would have given up on it long ago.

It's a good question and also a good observation.

[Artifex]

10. MP animations

Of course we all want them. Does not feel right without. Though it would be a bigger issue to me if multiplayer was worth playing currently. The dumbed down AI is a huge let down. That said, I'm trying to figure out why animations are not in. Tell me if this has been covered before, I have not seen it.

You know that bug where if you scroll away after initiating a fight, rather than watching the animation play the game pauses and takes like 10 seconds to get back on track? Often I realize what I did and return to finish watching the damage numbers scroll so that I can move on to the next action quicker.

I suspect this has something to do with it.
Why do off screen animations cause these pauses? Seems like something was poorly coded and now they are trying to cope rather than go back and rework it from scratch. Am I wrong?

[wyldmn]

Of course we all want them. Does not feel right without. Though it would be a bigger issue to me if multiplayer was worth playing currently.

We don't all want animations in MP. It is like when I first played Panzer General and watched the animations 3 or 4 times because they were cute and then shut them off forever because they no longer enhanced the game. My friends and I even shut them off in SP now. Very low priority item IMHO for MP.

[ddesart]

"the game is still "complete", playable and enjoyable as is. "


Lol you have got to be kidding me...a million copies were sold based on the reputation of the earlier games, not this crap fest.

You really think that a million people bought this game based on reputation and not based on research? All anyone would have to do is read some of the posts in this room by some really impatient people and conclude that this game was not for them, better off playing WOW or some other mindless game...

[Wodan11]

Well I for one haven't bought it yet. And for anyone who knows me is astonishing.

[the man of doom]

honestly i dont want mp animations

mp games take long enough already
i would disable in my game or just not play them

i luv SP animations since i tend to play in short bursts

[brxbrx]

You really think that a million people bought this game based on reputation and not based on research? All anyone would have to do is read some of the posts in this room by some really impatient people and conclude that this game was not for them, better off playing WOW or some other mindless game...

well, quite a few copies were sold. if not because of research, then what?

[jacypr]

You really think that a million people bought this game based on reputation and not based on research?

Yes. This first million was achieved quite fast, before forums start to fire up with discussions about the lack of depth and problems specially on late game. The research, by that time, would show you only reviews idolizing a game based on few turns played, since a lot of reviews came in the same day the game was released. Search for those reviews today, you will find ZERO reviews talking about all the bugs and problems that are now corrected. Bugs and problems that not even the most hardcore fanboy will deny.

All anyone would have to do is read some of the posts in this room by some really impatient people and conclude that this game was not for them, better off playing WOW or some other mindless game...

If anyone want to play a mindless game, they will buy Civilization 5, the epitome of "no thinking required".