From the article - "The realisation that there are such strong parallels between X-COM and Left 4 Dead has given me a renewed hope for the XCOM reboot"
I'm sorry, this clearly illustrates this guy whoever he is has NFI what he's talking about.
X-com is so disparate in theme/gameplay/visuals to Left4Dead the idea isn't even worth mentioning.
What should X-com be like..??
Maybe..for a wild idea.. how about we make the game like.... 'X-COM.'
How does that sound?
One step at a time. Need to get 2k to get the era right first lol.
Anyways, I agree, the author seems to paint all tense, scary gameplay with the same brush.
L4D, the tension (and I guess fear, if you get scared in L4D...) is borne from the fact that the enemy will never stop coming (unless you bug the AI director by going too fast). You cannot stay in one place and defeat the horde. They will eventually overrun you.
In X-Com, the tension arises from the fact that you are nearly hopelessly outclassed in very aspect of war against the alien invaders. Your best weapons are already obsolete, and are only effective on the weakest of alien species, and even those weak species have special abilities to give them an edge over their weak aspects.
It would better serve the interests of the fanbase if XCom looked to SWAT or Rainbow 6 for ideas. Just swap the criminals and terrorists for aliens.
Heck, it IS possible to serve FPS fans AND tactical top down fans at the same time. While the game itself was pretty much a flop, Raven Squad does show it IS possible to seemlessly move from top down tactical views into first person view. You just need to make sure both modes are up to the task (which apparently wasn't the case for Raven Squad)
I could see that working for XCom...if it were a paramilitary setting in modern times. What can I say, I'm a sucker for Power Armored troopers with miniguns.
Kids today don't want TB gameplay.What should X-com be like..??
Maybe..for a wild idea.. how about we make the game like.... 'X-COM.'
How does that sound?
You have to think outside the box. Don't just say: oh, I'm so sure X-COM can sell as well as CoD if yo just add 'coming for XBOX 360'.
The one thing I hear from all X-COM fans is: all they ever want is the same game with no changes what-so-ever. I'm sorry, but that can't happen.
If you just tell people what's ok to change, then maybe we can keep the better parts of X-COM, and not just make a carbon copy.
I couldn't agree more with that assessment more.I could not possibly disagree more. L4D is a weak contrived game about shooting your way through endless rapidly respawning zombies to get to an evacuation zone. Sneaking past witches and praying you can out run the tank.
If the ultimate goal was to survive to see the downfall of civilization… It could work. Running through one barren lifeless city after another… Always running, trying to survive to see the next day with no hope of ever triumphing. Kind of a sad and depressing game really.
Bland senseless running with no storyline other than survival. Doesn’t work for me. If I want to play a game like that I’ll go play “Kill All Humans”.
The statement that 2K has a grasp of the core elements is laudable. They threw out all X-Com lore and made a X-Files meets Bioshock game, slapped XCOM onto the cover and called it good. No squad tactical. No resource or base management. Nothing of what they have shown makes me excited. If it were Alliance, I would eagerly anticipate the release. Instead, I shake my head sadly and lament the new lows X-Com has been drug too.
As for us telling them what is ok and not ok to keep... We have said it. We keep saying it. Noone, not even you, is listening. Someone makes a comment about it not being X-Com. Point out several things that differ and you immediately shout them down and claim they don't like it because of the lack of Sectoids. The aliens aside... This game being offered... is not X-Com. Bottom line, we, the fans, are being ignored and told what we will like even when we say we don't like it.
Change is good. Change can be whats needed. Keep it in canon first of all. What XCOM offers isn't change. It's a 'new' game altogether. Emphasis on new, since it isn't all that new. I look at XCOM and expect to see Mulder and Scully lurking. I keep waiting for Big Daddy to wander around the corner. Dress a bull in a tutu... Call it what you will. Bottom line, you have a bull in a tutu. Dress up Bioshock/Enforcer however you want... Bottomline. It is what it is. X-Shock, Xeno-Shock, B-Files, Bio-Files. You do not have X-Com.
Things we want. Base/Resource management. The ability to control and order the mooks so we get the strategy while retaining the FPS elements. UFO's. Actual research and tech tree. Things we don't want... 50's setting. FBI agents straight from the x-files. Research being done by 'purchasing' upgrades... Ala Enforcer/Bioshock. Scripted missions! Those are ok for key plot points. But do not script the whole game! I want a game where I decide the outcome... Not a movie I watch and occasionally fiddle around with.
Don't get me wrong... I was drooling about Alliance when I first heard its announcement. I was a little leery about the FPS, but overly I was excited. I wanted it. I wanted to see it happen. I wanted to play it and couldn't wait for its release! XCOM makes me hope the publisher see's our cries for change and pulls the plug on 2k's production before it hits the market and absolutely trashes the name and game. Or, since the money has already been invested... Forces them to remove the XCOM title and release it as Xenonauts or something, anything, else... Just not X-Com.
We need less people who don't know a ☺☺☺☺ about x-com, talking about x-com.
X-com, like you said Nosmirc is just begging for a SWAT or Rainbow 6 type remake. I can't state enough what a gem of a game that would be. I enjoyed SWAT so much despite the AI being rather clunky and weird at times. Just imagine roaming a dark and creepy large downed ufo (at night) with your 6 man squad and human although state of the art equipment, when suddenly you see a Chryssalid storming you in full modern graphics glory. Since the enemies would be alien, gibbing would be a must and easily keep M rating or lower.
X-com benefited greatly from the suspense, so non action but tense parts are obligatory for such a game. Why does everyone say Dead Space 2 was not scary at all? Yes...way too much action.
Sometimes i think that producers are just ☺☺☺☺ing dumb, because thy just don't know what constitutes a fun game. Seriously...you don't have to be a creative prodigy to make a good game and it doesn't really cost that much more to make some changes in game style.
I just started playing X-Com last night... and, well. I don't really see how L4D comes close to being related to it. Sorry, I just don't.
However, I still hold firm my earlier statement that first person gameplay can be added in and not kill it entirely. There's just a LOT of other stuff to add to it...
Excellent, i don't know if you like it or not, but just realize back in 1994 playing this game was a mind blower. There was no internet where you could read reviews and comments from various people. There weren't that many distractions in the computer world as they are today.
Yes it has its flaws, but back then it was revolutionary. One trend i seeing in the gaming industry, today's games have a more serious character, but are dumber gameplay wise. Before the turn of the millennium games were somewhat more silly and relaxed in their expression but they were deeper.
X-com is one of those games that is serious to the core but fell in the wrong era. But i'm kinda glad it did, because tody there's probably no chance we'd ever gaze at such a deep gaming experience.
Just when I thought the gaming press couldn't get more stupid I read this article.
Riiiight...Not enough is known about XCOM yet to judge for sure whether or not 2K is getting it right, but everything that has been shown and said of the game so far would indicate that 2K understands the core principles behind the franchise, including that delicate balance between routine familiarity and sudden unpredictability.
But there's one redeeming thing this guy has...even he is not specially excited in the 2k adaptation of X-com.
It's just another check mark of what a conceptual flop XCOM is. 2K by this point pretty much deserves the "you can't fu** it up more than this" award.
Of all the resources and abilities 2K has at their disposal, they pull such a stunt. I will probably never forgive them for this blunder.
Podtech...XCOM is a mockery of the x-com universe. Despite interceptor having a load screen with glowing alien eyes that has no practical effect on the gameplay, XCOM has blobatovs, a car named Interceptor, guys fighting deadly black liquid with shotguns and shape shifting trans-dimensional super advanced alien craft which in the technical sense would beat the ☺☺☺☺ out of earthlings even by 1999 standards of UFO:enemy unknown. If that's not a pisstake on X-com i don't know what is.
AlphaCent.... I don't know how to deal with you.
My problem is all this:
I think XCOM is to X-COM, in the same way BioShock is to System Shock.
Who cares, as long as there is Base Building, Research, Manufacturing, and Agents to control. If we have all that, we'll have a game nearer to X-COM then any FPS before it.
If you like interceptor, then think of this game as interceptor 2, but on the ground.
As AlphaCent said, "We need less people who don't know a ☺☺☺☺ about x-com, talking about x-com"
Every time i see this new iteration mentioned, it seems like people somehow think 2K have a grasp on what made x-com great.
Because if they did, I'd stop seeing articles suggesting the new game will be story driven FPS drivel...
I keep reading 'how important the story is...'
No. the GAMEPLAY is what made this game stand out. You could have the greatest lore on earth but if the actual gameplay itself is crapola.. what was the effort for?
There are two ways out of the whole on this one...
If 2K picks neither this game will fail.
1. Remake the game keeping the turn based mechanics, base management, and tactical gameplay (my preference although least likely)
2. Make the game a squad based tactical FPS (As others have suggested, in the style of Ghost recon / Swat) with base/squad management.
They have the license for christ's sake.. they have the template... it is in their possession!!
All they need to do is READ why we loved the game so much (check the net.. there's no shortage of info as to why this is so), and give us the game the fans want.
At least if the rumors are correct the game has been delayed so they could retool it. Hopefully this means great improvements in gameplay with at the very least commandable NPC followers. Although it could result in a giant mess.
They've had the fans telling them, on this website, what they want (either a spiffified remake or a new TBS sequel, mostly) for years... then they went and disregarded everything and brought out an FPS that they'd seen fit to slap the X-Com name on late in the development process.
They wanted the same things we have been talking about. Reading it now, I felt a little sad at their optimism as I knew the future announcement of April 2010 was drawing closer and closer. But what they said back then was as true then as it is today-- X-COM deserves a true sequel.
Yeah.. quite depressing given the fan's hope and expectation of a true new game in the series...
I think the thing that really draws my ire is the fact this was already in development and they slapped an X-com badge on it.
I just can't get over that. It's absolute blasphemy.
Complaining about stuff that has so little effect on the game. None or very little of that is transmitted in game. Sure Interceptor wasn't perfect, never claimed it was, but it at least deserves the title X-Com because it follows the mechanics and universe.
Personally I felt Dead Space was far superior at pretending to be System Shock than Bioshock was.
Research? *does his best Necroscope impression* Riiight... Not happening. Again, from what we have been shown and told... You can easily infer that research will be acquired by collecting elerium, taking pictures, and purchasing upgrades and new items.
Agents to Control? Nope... Again, we have been given absolutely NO indication that that will be the case. More to the point, it has been demonstrated they will be AI controlled mook cannon fodder.
What leads you to believe that will be the case? Every interview, trailer, image, preview and comment from 2k and the people whom actually HAVE seen the game clearly indicates contrary to your statements. Is there something I have missed? Cite and link your reference material.
I completely agree with you though. IF they gave us that, we would have a game closer to X-Com. However; everything we have been shown thus far is at odds with that belief.The only correlation between XCOM and X-Com, aside from the widely lamented name... is Elerium 115. Change it to Rhodnium isotope 218, change the name from XCOM to something else... And noone would be the wiser. No one!
Podtech, by now we all know you hate Ellis and anything/everything related to Ellis. You abhor him with such a passion I fear you and him ever crossing paths. You could kill him with your glare alone! So interceptor wasn't your cup of tea. Too many pop culture references and silly aliens with glowing green eye load screens. opening/closing... People didn't receive Apocalypse that well for similar reasons. Too bright and cheery. Too much chrome and tailfin inspired 50's motiff. Silly aliens from an alternate dimension. Apoc was not everyone's cup of tea either. The only X-Com game to completely go under my radar was Enforcer. And I could not possibly be happier about that. Furthermore, I am proud to state I was one of those 30k to purchase Interceptor. I whip it out and play it about as often as Apoc. For me, their playability is on par with one another.
The final mission in interceptor. In that games defence, that was a huge super weapon. Supposed phallic reference aside, it was enormous! Besides, you would be hard pressed to turn on the tv for 20 minutes without coming across 5 such references.
Really? REALLY? System Shock fans everywhere want to hunt you down now.Originally Posted by Podtech
Exactly. The first thing that made me think that 2k was totally off base with what made X-Com good was when they said they were focused on delivering a 'great' narrative like that of Bioshock 2. While I'm all for add more story to X-Com, not when the gameplay suffers for it. That's what Bioshock 2 narrative says to me (I can't even bring myself to finish the first few arcs of Bioshock 2. I just don't care about anyone in the game).Originally Posted by BandofGypsies
It's telling when most of those posters haven't say much or anything here.Originally Posted by Brian Damage
The whole problem with how 2K approached XCOM I feel is that it feels like they asked "How can we make X-COM fit our gameplay?" rather than doing the right thing and asking "How can we make our gameplay fit X-COM?" If that's truly how they approached it, and it certainly seems like it is, the entire concept has been flawed from the start. I mean, I'm no professional game designer, but that doesn't at all seem like the way it's supposed to work. Sure, if they want to make Bioshock sequels, go right ahead and use the same engine and formula. But when you start applying that formula to everything you work on, it just comes off as lazy, and people aren't going to fall for it. 2k's at risk of stereotyping themselves as it is with their apparently 50s fetish.
Only a fool doesn't realize that. Ask anyone fan or not who played X-com and tell them the facts...i'm certain that most if not all will be confused at first. Some might welcome the idea, most will not...but all of them will have their WTF moment one way or another.
Oh and Shrike...you pretty much nailed it.
I making a Stupid reply here:
Hey! I happen to like 'girls with...' You can't have a game without it!They want FPS, they want fast paced mindless hobnobbery with no substance, plot or story line. Dumb jokes and girls with...
Last edited by podtech115; 03-17-2011 at 12:36 PM.
But you also want ghosts in XCOM 2...so you're not really someone who should have much of a say on the future of X-com.