Yes that would be good.. I like that idea, thanks for it, sorry for the text wall and I thought of a name. Bioshock: From my eyes
Keep the coments coming I appreciate them and rember to post your own Ideas! This is a thread for a one last goodbye to rapture game right?
Alright, I remember hearing a rumor that there would be 6-8 sequels. That now makes sense.
3 Rapture games
3 Infinite games
I imagine with each sequal they'll try out a different philosiphy, objectivism, alturism, patriotisim.
Yea thats kinda a huge conflict were one man can waltz through a city of people trying to murder him and kill the creator of the city find out he is the creator's son then seek revenge on the man responsible for all of it... if you dont call that a huge conflict then I dont know what is.Originally Posted by Atlas-
I have it! A prequel to Bioshock as a FP Sim where you can do anything! MWUHAAHAHAHA!
There is one normal man on one side, and I would never call a survivial game a Huge conflict, just brcause he killed a few people it does not make it a huge conflict. A huge conflict is Kill zone or MGS4.
I'm pretty sure that their will be another BioShock after this considering that I was reading a article saying that Ken Levine said that the BioShock series is like star wars in the sense that they could go up to 5-6 games if they wanted.
That interview was not with Ken Levine, it was with Christoph Hartmann (president of 2K Games). It was also more of an off-the-cuff "hey, anything's possible" kind of statement than anything that indicates real plans.
Bioshock Online ....
Maybe someday when niche games are easy to create (game publishing tools like what happened to text publishing...)
Not sure how that would work. Living in the pre-game Rapture might not be overly exciting -- Sim City with Big Daddies -- and an apocalyptic setting of 'the Fall' with gang factions and battles after that the entrophy as things fall apart and most everyone is dead (no matter what lambs world looks like in 1968 it should have filled up with water by then when most capable people were gone)
Not exactly a setting for a resource building/exploration/society simulating/adventuring MMORPG.
But then maybe games by then wont have people stick around for more than a few months (as there would be so many others available) and you would experience the whole Rapture cycle every week and take part in the shifting environment.
The bioshock title being developed by Irrational games for the psvita after infinite could be set in late 40's or early 50's
They haven't put out any info about the Vita game other than the fact that it will be on the Vita. Let's be careful about treating speculation as facts.
I said could, like as a possibility.
I think she meant it might not be in Rapture. In the interview, Ken Levine mentions nothing about Rapture.
MMORPG post BS2 Rebuilding the city.
Would have to solve the problem of a large indoor world (asset creation is a $$$ issue), though I guess you can also do stuff in diving suits for outside parts.
or another solo game with Invasion from the outside ? An expedition (player+team) there to recover the gene technologies and deny it to KGB adversaries (cold war theme)
Last edited by wodinoneeyex; 02-23-2012 at 12:41 AM.
many critics were upset with bioshock 2 because they felt the creators milked the successful storyline and setting of the original and wore it out. also, according to critics, returning to rapture was and never will be as exciting nor intriguing as it was when the player was first introduced to the city and culture. dont get me wrong im an unhealthy bioshock fan so needless to say i completely disagree with the accusations made against bioshock 2 and fully enjoyed the game. however, it doesnt appear that returning to rapture for a 3rd time is much of a possibility =(
I would love to have another Bioshock in Rapture, either one that finishes everything off that was left hanging after a certain DLC (I'm trying to keep the spoilers out :S) or one that sets up the creation of the city. Preferably I'd want both, but the latter would be a lot harder to make into a story driven game. It could almost be a city builder, one that you then have to manage after ti is built... but there'd only be one outcome so the replayability would be lost
Personally, I loved Bioshock 2. It hit chords with me that the first one did not, or should I say that in some ways it hit different chords in me. I want something to just finish the story off now, one last trip.
Bioshock as an MMORPG set in the post-Lamb (so you still get to kill Splicers in the FPS part). Rebuilding the city from a ruined state would probably be more interesting than from a Ryan run initial building. RTS elements and an innovative Tablet/Palmtop interface for playing parts of the RTS when you cant be at your gaming machine....
http://irrationalgames.com/community...rst-person-mmo
For a BIOSHOCK 3 game scenario with a 'less ruined rapture' - the period in 1958 did have alot of action with Splicers staring to cause trouble, followed by the take down of Fontaine, and and the emergence of Atlas then the Start of the Civil war.
Showing the city in its original state might be a challenge -- to show the city NOT empty (alot of NPCs walking around etc...)
Maybe make it sortof a Rapture Noire with the player being one Of Ryans Security men (so will be in the center of alot of action) and starting off just doing normal activities and trying to find the smuggling operations and then alot of interplay with Fontaine etc... (the book has more details about what happened in this period).
It would be highly choreographed following the story line of Rapture's fall -- maybe all the way thru to Ryan's death as a finish (and the arrangements Ryan made for it) - actually having the player as one of Ryan's few original people left at that point.
The plot Twist would be that Ryan did not want Jack killed (thus the easy time Jack had instead of facing 100 splicers at once and fleets of Security Bots) and was really faking his own death to fool Atlas/Fontaine. At the end Ryan is in a secret bunker Vita Chamber set to reawaken 10 years later when he will see if there were any worthy people left in Rapture to move his dream forward.
------------------------------------------
They might also be able to make a better explanation of WHY Ryan did what he did - apparently against his own principles (instead of just making him a cardboard cutout villain to fit a shoot-em-up game plot).
- Bizaarely inept circumstances (Ryans Security SHOULD have been able to find Fontaines huge smuggling operation long before that Splicer army was built). This needs to be shown - corruption, bribery by Fontaine and fontaines ruthless killing of witnesses.
- Being forced to engage in a 'war' where things suddenly arent "normal" any more and everything you built and civilization itself is at risk if you lose/surrender. Ryan was slow to adopt the methods of his enemies and thus too late to cut them off before thing got very bad. (he doesnt seem to get credit for 'sticking to his principles' that long -- damned if he does and damned if he doesnt...)
- Not getting any good advice (that council) as to alternatives to handle the severe problems (ADAM+plasmids were the 'shock' that tore appart society)
------ Why not ban plasmids as a simple health hazzard (like you would badly made methyl poisoned booze) - would have doubled to cut the knees out from under the thug Fontaine)
------ Try coming up with a 'brain bleach' tonic to wipe those who couldnt adapt to Rapture - to deport them safely (Ryans wasnt fontaine/lamb to simply kill people who were problematic)
Things that went wrong :
- City expansion (for the future) to properly employ all those downtrodden workers (collectivist fodder) -- except the Kashmir incident and the bank run/civil war put a stop to that plan.
- Alot of things attributed to Ryan were actually caused by underlings who had few or were weak on their principles -- alot of provisions that Ryan had planend to make his City work (as a society) were never carried thru.
- People brought to Rapture should have been vetted better (ie- Lamb slipping thru and the diaries show that she was thinking of subverting Ryans vision quite soon after arriving, Fontaine a criminal...) . Ryan would be shown trying to fix many of the problems but never got a chance because of the 'bio' 'shock' that totally disrupted society.
- Explain that the pheromone control thing (supposedly Ryans biggest turn against his beliefs 'denying free will') was actually only effective on splicers (people who already surrendered their free will to ADAM) and that he should use THEM against his enemies (instead of them all being used against him) -- and his plans to later ban ADAM & plasmids as poison (or at least until they could be improved NOT to turn people insane).
---
Theres alot of potential to go into all those things (from the perspective of one of Ryans men) and to play thru the real events (including lots of blast-fest action and 'training' in the new weapons etc...) . Alot of closer contact with Ryan who would explain things himself and show the struggles he had for the path that he was forced to take.
Roll into it more interplay/elaboration with Lamb/Sinclair/etc... recreations of the situations we heard second hand in the diaries.
They could elaborate the reasons why Ryan was against governments and organized religion (being betrayed by them in his own life -- bolsheviks murdering his family, the churches doing nothing to stop them, the constant interference of the 'ant people' taking peoples freedoms/prosperity away, etc...) Lots of potential for flashback scenes.
-----------------
Moral choice aspect ??? (Were we really given much of one in the other games ????)
As Ryan's man you show your loyalty and get to see that Ryan WAS making moral choices --- against horrific circumstances.
What moral choice is there for the player to make -- surrender ?? siding with criminals, or people out to destroy Rapture ?
Last edited by watchman; 05-19-2012 at 07:28 PM.
http://forums.2kgames.com/showthread...rst-Person-MMO
Well, I hope the they could make a prequel of rapture, but not as far back as Colombia, it would be cool to see how rapture was in its Golden Ages, Id also like to see the beginning of Rapture, starting from its construction, etc, even though they explained it in BS2. And I would love to see a game probably 10-20 years after BS2, they could always bring us back to rapture with that.
Thanks for inviting me to this thread.
It gives me a sparkle of hope to be able to walk around in rapture again.
I love the idea to have the game go back to the 40's/50's!
I actually also thought about it when i finished Bioshock 2.
The biggest + about the 2nd sequel is (In my opinion) that you actually were a Big Daddy.
It gave you a very mighty and powerful feeling, yet quite fragile when tons of splicers came running at you.
Maybe it would also be awesome if they put a small sandbox feature in it, to be able to walk around in the rapture world, without all the drama.
But we got to face the fact that we can't go any further, from where Bioschock 2 ended. From of there, Rapture is gone.
So going more back in time will be the only option-
OR, an other option is that we approach all the events from an other person. So meanwhile Delta tries to get Eleanor back, we play as an other person, which has a whole different story then Delta's.
EDIT: I just tought of an other option, maybe possible for a sequel.
5 year after Eleanor and Delta went to the surface,
- Eleanor discovered a way to revive Delta (in his suit of course)
- they send a robot down to rapture to see what it's up to.
- They discover that many of the splicers are cured by a private scientist who hid in a room while rapture was on it's edge of destruction (Bioschock 2). Yet some of the splicers still lurk around.
- When they discover that, they go back down and try to rebuild rapture.
-Big Daddies, Big Sisters and Little Sister are still there, they just can't be missed in the game. No steam-punk cyborgs? No Bioschock.
Last edited by finner10; 05-20-2012 at 11:05 AM.
I really love that statement.
The Book covers the building of Rapture thru the starting of Civil War and that could be the story line of the 3rd game played from the point of view of one of Ryans men (or playing thru as far as Ryans death to have a proper epic ending).
Walking around Rapture 'as it was' is a problem because of the number of people that would have to be shown (its a City after all and not one that is ruined and mostly deserted) and if you go to that effort to present it you really should have more for the player to do there. So working thru a bunch of scenes/scenarios from the history of Rapture would make sense and from the point of view of one of Ryan's security men there would be plenty of action.
And after BS2 Rapture is NOT dead/gone, Sophia Lamb blew up a very small part of Rapture on leaving (one building or even just part of Persephone) and there is still the rest of the parts we ran thru still looked full of Splicers (and the other areas she controlled and all the ones Lamb didnt - Rapture is a Big place).But we got to face the fact that we can't go any further, from where Bioschock 2 ended. From of there, Rapture is gone.
So going more back in time will be the only option-
OR, an other option is that we approach all the events from an other person. So meanwhile Delta tries to get Eleanor back, we play as an other person, which has a whole different story then Delta's.
Also nothing says you have to be Delta again, just as Delta wasnt in BS1, you can move on to yet a third character (with a whole 'nuther story to elaborate).
Tanenbaum would likely go back with the 'cure' mentioned in the Minerva Den DLC (since with finding ADAM she is the root cause for the whole mess), so using that as the center of the 3rd game's plot would work. Someone going with her or already in Rapture would be the main character. That happening is the plotline for the MMORPG idea that I talk about in another thread - where the setting IS Tanenbaum curing Splicers and the city being rebuilt by those people - the players (and which has no 'epic' ending needed because rebuilding Rapture is an endless story).EDIT: I just tought of an other option, maybe possible for a sequel.
5 year after Eleanor and Delta went to the surface,
- Eleanor discovered a way to revive Delta (in his suit of course)
- they send a robot down to rapture to see what it's up to.
- They discover that many of the splicers are cured by a private scientist who hid in a room while rapture was on it's edge of destruction (Bioschock 2). Yet some of the splicers still lurk around.
- When they discover that, they go back down and try to rebuild rapture.
-Big Daddies, Big Sisters and Little Sister are still there, they just can't be missed in the game. No steam-punk cyborgs? No Bioschock.
""" agree with most of you, no Rapture No Bioshock. Let finish this candy bar ( Rapture) before opening another one( Columbia)"""
With the fantasy 'magic' that seems to be in Infinite they may be making a fatal divergence from the Bioshock genre.
Milking the name make business sense and they may yet be able to somehow explain the 'magic' in sci-fi terms sufficiently.
Unfortunately the second I saw brick building floating ontop of tiny balloons I knew that sci-fi is going to be extremely hard to explain such blatant revoking the laws of physics (the alternative would have been to have huge superdome sized balloons/dirigible ABOVE the city platform (far enough above so you can still have sunlight shine about instead of being in shadow - though transparent balloon could also help with that).
The plasmid technology in Rapture couild be used to explain most of what you saw, besides the city engineering that was largely conventional technology except the windows (that they justified with a new super-strong material "Ryanium" that the billionaire Ryan had specially developed --- Scottys 'transparent aluminum' maybe...).
The 'tear' stuff in Infinite will take alot of explaining - if they even try. Or as Ive said here (much to the chagrin of some people) we are heading down the path to Harrypotterville/the Purple Unicorn Continuum and far away from Rapture.
I'm sorry about that. I haven't played BS1 and therefore am really confused about the story line. Also my English is good, but not fantastic. Is there anywhere i can find a good, full and detailed explanation of the story line?
Back to topic.
I don't like the idea of transforming a horror FPS, into an MMORPG. Since most of the MMORPG aren't FP, Bioshock will lose it's unique atmosphere. Yet if it will become a FPS-MMORPG, i think i need to get a box of tissues.
Also since MMORPG's don't necessarily need to continue with a main story line, they can make a twist in the story line. Yet that's only another option, so maybe an MMORPG really is a good option.
http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Rapture (look thru the many entries)
***this stupid forum mechanism wiped the longer message I was typing (logs you out after a very short time and the autosave/ relogging sequence failed) ***
Anyway AGAIN...
You dont have to be sorry alot of people think Rapture is dead at the end of BS2 (Rapture was built to last at least a century and the people left in it are survivors and we only saw a tiny part of it)
I would keep the FP aspect for the MMORPG (except with even more to do) and add other aspects that would show you really what the city was (the MMORPG thread I wrote goes into features that would make it an exceptional game).
The MMORPG situation would be positive as you are rebuilding the city and rescuing the splicers (the 'cure') and would be a continuation/extension of the plot setting from BS1/BS2/Minervas Den
If they have to do another solo game then I would recommend the prequel showing all the happenings from the city being built thru Ryans death as being the most epic .
Last edited by watchman; 05-21-2012 at 07:25 PM.
I wouldn't really be surprised if another BioShock set in Rapture comes up eventually from 2K. It might even be the last one there, depending on how well Infinite does. And I'm betting Infinite will do really well, so yeah, BioShock 3 might be the last Rapture game because Infinite will prove that BioShock doesn't need Rapture to be a success. And that's okay with me. Personally, I think 2 should probably be the end, but whatever. I suppose I'd take a third entry and enjoy it, especially if it gives us all a nice dose of finality.
Someone else mentioned Sonar in another thread and the US Navy was getting good enough equipment by the 70s that they could hear Rapture from hundreds of miles away (all the machinery going) so would have to come and investigate and find it even if Rapture did finally decide to tear down that stupid Lighthouse that screams "something is below here".....
For a different venue, a 50s space theme (moon/spacestation) probably has the most prospects (good nostalgia elements)
As for another in Rapture, some people do like continuation and recognition you get with going back to the same setting -- its just a matter of if they have run out of 'epic' and 'twists'. For that the plotline of the Novel - where you live thru the great happenings leading thru the Construction to the Civil War - would probably satisfy those.
Last edited by watchman; 05-23-2012 at 08:05 PM.
This is the one series of games i would hate to ever see end. Bioshock got me into games again and it is prob one of thee best games ever. Hope they keep making these games as long as possible even if they have to recreate it in a diff setting as long as its Bioshock themed :P
Its getting closer program and processing-wise
But further away in stagnated game industry-wise.
I think Rapture being discovered by the world could definetely be an interesting avenue to explore.
Perhaps Rapture gets back on its feet. Maybe Tenenbaum will perfect her method of reversing the damage of adam with the help of the thinker and then return to Rapture and rehabilitate the remaining splicer population.
A population of sane people will begin to grow who will renew and refurbish Rapture, perhaps under some new ideology, and slowly Rapture will be rebuilt.
But then as Rapture begins to get back on its feet, all the activity is picked up on sonar by a goverment ie. americans, russians, who then attempt to invade Rapture.
You as the player could take part in the defence and rebuilding of Rapture? Could be interesting
See the Bioshock First Person MMO? thread I keep text walling to with ideas.I think Rapture being discovered by the world could definetely be an interesting avenue to explore.
Perhaps Rapture gets back on its feet. Maybe Tenenbaum will perfect her method of reversing the damage of adam with the help of the thinker and then return to Rapture and rehabilitate the remaining splicer population.
A population of sane people will begin to grow who will renew and refurbish Rapture, perhaps under some new ideology, and slowly Rapture will be rebuilt.
But then as Rapture begins to get back on its feet, all the activity is picked up on sonar by a goverment ie. americans, russians, who then attempt to invade Rapture.
You as the player could take part in the defence and rebuilding of Rapture? Could be interesting
Of course that is a MMORPG which cant have an 'epic ending' structure to it (but could have as part of its breadth of 'things to do' having at least the preliminary forces from the outside for the player to deal with.)
In that scenario Tenenbaum does come back to use the Thinker in Rapture when she/porter cant get anything done on the surface (too many government people asking questions and lack of resources to build another Thinker)
For a solo game the curing/restoration/rebuilding is kind of a longterm scenario (how to fit it into an action game??).
Having Eleanor come back at the same time as CIA/KGB/Jacque Cousteau are showing up to a partially recovered Rapture might have enough interesting plot interactions.
Last edited by watchman; 05-31-2012 at 01:23 AM.
You make a good point about restoring a city perhaps not lending itself to interesting gameplay.
I really like the idea of a partially recovered Rapture though. There could be safe zones where order has been restored and npcs roam around enacting there everyday lives. These sections could serve as interesting "downtime" parts of the game focused on story exposition and exploration.
And then there could be the areas of Rapture that have yet to recover, filled with even more deranged splicers who perhaps are resisting the attempted rebirthing of Rapture and are actively hostile towards any attempt to rebuild their areas.
A second civil war perhaps!
This in combination with a second plot thread of Rapture being discovered by the outside world could be super interesting!
By eleanor returning do you mean as the main playable character? I really like that idea! Would be a big change from the slow cumbersome movement of subject delta. Less "tank" gameplay and more agile vertical movement. It could be too big a change from the classic bioshock combat but maybe thats a good thing?
The restoring part would be a different aspect that some people like (or like to do some of the time) but we wouldnt want to eliminate the FPS aspect (some people might only want to play that aspect and they should be able to decide the balance of the aspects they want).
With an MMORPG there would have to be alot of content (and continually added content) to keep people playing (and paying) and thats a really major project many times the cost and effort and knowhow of making a solo game (thats why I propose player created stuff as a possible mechanism to bring the cost down -- but that too is not only a major project, but something the industry really has no experience with.)
So we would likely get a Solo game and I would hope for a little more than 'gunshops' in FarCry 2 and a few rebuilding missions for the 'restoration' part of the game -- and to have the big populated 'normal' areas thats alot of work that otherwise goes to the blast-fest shoot-em up part of the game.
And then there could be the areas of Rapture that have yet to recover, filled with even more deranged splicers who perhaps are resisting the attempted rebirthing of Rapture and are actively hostile towards any attempt to rebuild their areas.
A second civil war perhaps!
This in combination with a second plot thread of Rapture being discovered by the outside world could be super interesting!
The 'ruined' part would be the adventure and probably the most significant part to hold the series' existing players. Again having extensive 'ruins' to go out and explore and do missions in (less linearly/choreographed than BS1/BS2) means more content of all kinds (hopefully they will eventually be able to increase the efficiency of creating content or they will never be able to afford to do this -- I dont know if you could do the GTA type of thing where you run trhough alot of city/ruins but the actual places have very little detail).
They may (???) be able to recycle/rework the BS1/BS2 content as a start on all that city space.
Outsiders would be a new element with different motives than 'splicers want to kill me and I want to stay alive so I kill them'
It dosent have to be a mass invasion, just agents (of more than one side) and small units (and you get to see Splicers killing someone else for a change)
And there is the 'capture to Cure' aspect that would demand somewhat different tactics and tools.
I dont see why not (and the jumping around that Big Sisters can do might offer a different movement aspect)By eleanor returning do you mean as the main playable character? I really like that idea! Would be a big change from the slow cumbersome movement of subject delta. Less "tank" gameplay and more agile vertical movement. It could be too big a change from the classic bioshock combat but maybe thats a good thing?
One of the concerns of many people about a third rapture game would be it being 'more of the same' which with the things mentioned above show there are plenty of 'new' things that could be brought to 'old' Rapture.
Last edited by watchman; 05-31-2012 at 01:27 AM.
Maybe adding a third dimension would be amazing.
(I got the idea from the idea of playing agile Ealanor)
So not only left,right front and back, but also up and down.
Since Big Sisters are very agile it would be awesome to climb up the big buildings from which the stairs crumbled.
Or maybe even go more into the depth, underground-underwater.
Attacks from above, more asasination-like would be so awesome.
I recall that some games have you click the jump button more than once to jump further and twice for this game could be to jump to where you are pointing.
And it would be something 'different' for a third game (could have more big interiors to maneuver in).
The opponent mix might be a little different as most SPlicers should be afraid of Big Sisters *maybe we would get more swarms of them, and individual ones more running away and hiding)
I would like to return to Rapture playing as a Big Sister, perhaps as Eleanor.
One problem might be, that if you did play as a fast moving Big Sister, from inside the helmet looking out, things could be quite confusing as the Big Sister does her acrobatics. This could actually be quite interesting though.
I was wondering if it is possible to combine first person and third person game play in the same game. You could then watch the Big Sister fight enemies from a distance, or quickly switch to first person mode looking out of the helmet to fight enemies. Perhaps you would be given no choice and have to switch first and third person mode when prompted, for different situations of fighting and game play.
Since you would get such a poor view of the acrobatics first person, I suppose they could have it switch to third person automatically for a maneuver (target and launch with jump activate twice or somesuch) and if you were too far away for a straight jump you would do cartwheels or other variation to get to the point to jump. Not sure if there would be much climbing walls except to jump there and then from spot to spot (or walk if on a flat surface, like a ledge).
Default third person view would be from where you started the maneuver (as you had to see the target from there already) but alternate side views could be selected by the program if there is enought space for that view.
Using Eleanor would be logical as being already the candidate for some kind of 'epic' plot (they are probably out of 'twists' except to have Elizabeth from Infinite be Ryans mother...)
I really hope a return to rapture will happen. I still think that Infinite will be a good game, but there is something more soothing with the under water-scenario.
ElecTrix
We can only hope that there is a return to Rapture.
I really liked the underwater environment in Rapture and a return would be great.
watchman
If the game was to mix first and third person formats, I was thinking of 2 main types of game:-
1. Environment based switching:-
a. Third person would be played in open spaces like outside of Rapture, streets, plaza's, halls etc.
b. First person would be played inside buildings, rooms, corridors, submarines etc.
2. Ability based switching:-
a. Third person would be used for sprint, jump, fast swim, kick, punch, stab with syringe, and melee fighting, similar to Assassins Creed, Tomb Raider etc. (Eleanor acting/playing like Lara Croft in a Big Sisters diving suit, might be interesting!)
b. First person would be used for, walk, slow swim, reconnaissance, sniping, search and destroy, hacking, adopting, rescuing, harvesting etc.
I don't know which of the two, the Environmental or the Abilities type of game play, would be easier for the game developers to use.
Well, all of this talk of restoration and civil war is just fine, but the very fact that we're talking about it here probably means that it will never happen. If 2K were to implement these ideas, lord knows someone would try to take credit and a painful lawsuit could easily ensue.
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