Duke Nukem Forever and Steamworks!

[2K Elizabeth]

Hey guys,

I’ve been fielding many inquiries about whether or not Duke Nukem Forever is going to be on Steam and today I’m happy to clear up any outstanding rumors and questions in your mind by saying: Yes, DNF *is* using Steamworks and only Steamworks for both the single player and multiplayer components of the game.

Let me know if you have any other questions about this – and stay tuned – we’re keeping track of a bunch of questions you have been asking and as they are finalized, I’ll be posting more about them here.

[Iggy_]

Only Steam for the PC version? In other words, mandatory? (Just want to make sure I understand you correctly.)

This might be a dumb question but I'm really curious for this. I live in Germany and will (of course) be buying an import version from the UK (which is uncensored). Assuming the German version is censored, what version will I be eventually playing with Steam?

[zndkwn1+]

Yes, mandatory, even if you buy it retail. It will be a Steam-infected game. AWESOME!!!! I'll cancel my pre-order now. I just saved $49.99. Grats, Liz!

[2K Elizabeth]

Only Steam for the PC version? In other words, mandatory? (Just want to make sure I understand you correctly.)

This might be a dumb question but I'm really curious for this. I live in Germany and will (of course) be buying an import version from the UK (which is uncensored). Assuming the German version is censored, what version will I be eventually playing with Steam?

Only Steam - yes, it's mandatory as its built in with the game, but that means you won't have to lug your CD around everywhere.

As for Germany, I can't really recommend anything beyond getting the version for your territory - that's the easiest and most surefire way to be able to get all the content and any potential PC patches down the road.

[tviceman]

Excellent news! Thank you Elizabeth!

[zndkwn1+]

That too means that the game could be shut down to you remotely at Valve's discretion. Not that it's common, but it's in the EULA.

[2K Elizabeth]

That too means that the game could be shut down to you remotely at Valve's discretion. Not that it's common, but it's in the EULA.

If anyone has questions about Steam or Steamworks, please feel free to ask and we'll help clear anything up - however we've never had a game "shut down" like this and we don't ever intend to - Gearbox and 2K Games are committed to DNF and we aren't looking to take the game away from you. Please, don't spread misinformation.

[zndkwn1+]

If anyone has questions about Steam or Steamworks, please feel free to ask and we'll help clear anything up - however we've never had a game "shut down" like this and we don't ever intend to - Gearbox and 2K Games are committed to DNF and we aren't looking to take the game away from you. Please, don't spread misinformation.

Im not spreading misinformation. That's the rule with every game on steam, it's not on you/2kgames/Gearbox side, it's Steam's owners. I know 2k has several Steamworks games, you should know it's Valve's EULA.

[Oppopji]

This is a disappointment for me, I hate when retail copies of games require online authentication to play single player. Still, it could be worse I guess... means I'll have to go to the effort of maintaining an offline-installable backup though.

[2K Greg]

Im not spreading misinformation. That's the rule with every game on steam, it's not on you/2kgames/Gearbox side, it's Steam's owners.

As far as I am aware Valve has never done this in the history of Steam. Your "not that it's common" statement implies that it has happened. That's the misinformation we are asking you not to spread.

[zndkwn1+]

As far as I am aware Valve has never done this in the history of Steam. Your "not that it's common" statement implies that it has happened. That's the misinformation we are asking you not to spread.

Well, there's been cases of people kicked out of their games in their steam accounts, without them cheating/hacking and such. That's not misinformation.

[Yerolo]

...and along come all the Steam haters

I for one welcome this news, it is the most non intrusive DRM solution nowadays. Looking forward to seeing all the benefits that steamworks offers such as Steam achievements, Cloud support and hopefully Steam's server browser for Multiplayer

Thanks 2K

[Relight]

I used to be against Steam, but of all the DRM "schemes" out there, it's now my preferred DRM method for publishers to use. That doesn't mean its without problems, but for me, the benefits it provides outweighs its disadvantages and are certainly desirable over other DRM methods.

I'm glad that 2K, as a publisher, has started (with Mafia II, I believe) and continued to use Steam as a platform for their games.

The more that publishers and gamers use and support Steam, the better Valve can make the system in order to keep publishers happy with DRM and address concerns that gamers have with the system.

[Arrowdel]

Elizabeth, you are HAPPY to tell it'll be INFESTED with Steamworks, just like Civ5? Honestly? That's like a criminal HAPPY to admit in court he's robbed X number of people.
When will 2K learn that mandatory Steamworks only make pirated copies more attractive? No DVD in the drive? Other DRM methods do that too and without Steam's hassles. You implemented that thing ONLY so could have a means of selling DLC, Civ5 suffered for the exact same reason.

You had Impulse Reactor offering Steamworks features without forcing anyone to bundle a client, you had GFWL which is much more hassle-free especially for those who buy boxed copies, you had simple activation mechanisms which EA use (look at Dead Space 2 or ME2, no mandatory Steam bundled) - yet you chose the WORST possible, just because a vocal minority of Steam worshippers troll the forum.

What a disappointment, Elizabeth.

Now that it's a Steamworks title, your sales will suffer, because Steam users will skip it so they can pick it up for 10 euro or less during a STEAM SALE. It benefits Valve, but it doesn't benefit YOU.

[Rebelphoenix]

If steam ever crashes and burns, this will be a problem.

[zndkwn1+]

Elizabeth, you are HAPPY to tell it'll be INFESTED with Steamworks, just like Civ5? Honestly? That's like a criminal HAPPY to admit in court he's robbed X number of people.
When will 2K learn that mandatory Steamworks only make pirated copies more attractive? No DVD in the drive? Other DRM methods do that too and without Steam's hassles. You implemented that thing ONLY so could have a means of selling DLC, Civ5 suffered for the exact same reason.

You had Impulse Reactor offering Steamworks features without forcing anyone to bundle a client, you had GFWL which is much more hassle-free especially for those who buy boxed copies, you had simple activation mechanisms which EA use (look at Dead Space 2 or ME2, no mandatory Steam bundled) - yet you chose the WORST possible, just because a vocal minority of Steam worshippers troll the forum.

What a disappointment, Elizabeth.

Yep, it's Civ V and Mafia 2, only with the duke! A EA-like Downloadable Content DRM scheme would have been better, this does make the lets say un-steamed copies more attractive, since they will be runnable too, and without steam. I like DVDs, ty.

[Relight]

... you had GFWL which is much more hassle-free ... yet you chose the WORST possible

Really? GFWL was awful for BioShock 2 and Fallout 3.

If steam ever crashes and burns, this will be a problem.

The same could be said of any DRM system that a major publisher like 2K is likely to use.

[2K David]

You implemented that thing ONLY so could have a means of selling DLC

Not true. As has been stated in the thread already, using misinformation to try to further your point is not allowed.

[2K Elizabeth]

Arrowdel - I understand that there are people out there who aren't fans of every system that exists - however we are making these decisions based on our overall base of customers, not just people on this forum or any other forum - and we weigh the pros and cons of every system each time we approach a new release.

If you have any other questions or concerns, we're going to help out however possible, but please try and keep the dramatic posts to a minimum and not over exaggerate or make assertions that are not true - for example, stating we are doing this for DLC is incorrect and I don't want to confuse anyone on this forum.

Thanks!

[zndkwn1+]

No duke DLC then?

[Relight]

Well, 2K haven't announced what I consider "real" DLC yet, but at least one retailer so far is offering pre-order DLC. Of course, DLC, whether pre-order or not, could be done in a number of ways, with GFWL, Steam, etc, so I'm sure it's a contributing factor for when publishers choose distribution and DRM platforms, but it certainly wouldn't be the main consideration.

[ilblogics]

Well, you've managed to make my worst nightmare come true. I guess I'll be canceling my Balls of Steel Edition pre-order.

[Rebelphoenix]

No duke DLC then?

Already is, a "preorder bonus" from gamestop. Mainly pointless, a new shirt for duke. I think it was called "Duke's Big Package" or something like that.

[Arrowdel]

Arrowdel - I understand that there are people out there who aren't fans of every system that exists - however we are making these decisions based on our overall base of customers, not just people on this forum or any other forum - and we weigh the pros and cons of every system each time we approach a new release.

If you have any other questions or concerns, we're going to help out however possible, but please try and keep the dramatic posts to a minimum and not over exaggerate or make assertions that are not true - for example, stating we are doing this for DLC is incorrect and I don't want to confuse anyone on this forum.

Thanks!

Elizabeth, I'd like to know how good Mafia 2 - a Steamworks game - sold. Because I'm willing to bet Bioshock - which used neither Steam nor GFWL - sold better. Just food for thought. I'm almost certain that your games sell on Steam only during "50% off, 75% off" sales. Valve then boasts about the number of copies sold and number of Steam users... Shame they don't mention that almost every AAA game requires that you have a Steam account to play and during sales, games make less profit then they should per copy.

You have honestly no idea how much people here hate Steam. Heck, even GFWL is more popular because it at least doesn't force you to jump through hoops to install a game, merely activate. Also, I still don't understand why you don't give Stardock's Impulse Reactor a chance.
Anything is better than Valve's outdated (can't even choose where can I have a game installed!) and problematic client if you ask me.

[Relight]

You have honestly no idea how much people here hate Steam. Heck, even GFWL is more popular ...

Yeah, because this forum is so busy with people expressing that. Head over to the BioShock 2 forum, and ask everyone there how much they loved GFWL.

[2K Elizabeth]

Elizabeth, I'd like to know how good Mafia 2 - a Steamworks game - sold. Because I'm willing to bet Bioshock - which used neither Steam nor GFWL - sold better. Just food for thought. I'm almost certain that your games sell on Steam only during "50% off, 75% off" sales. Valve then boasts about the number of copies sold and number of Steam users... Shame they don't mention that almost every AAA game requires that you have a Steam account to play and during sales, games make less profit then they should per copy.

You have honestly no idea how much people here hate Steam. Heck, even GFWL is more popular because it at least doesn't force you to jump through hoops to install a game, merely activate. Also, I still don't understand why you don't give Stardock's Impulse Reactor a chance.
Anything is better than Valve's outdated (can't even choose where can I have a game installed!) and problematic client if you ask me.

As a publicly traded company, giving out those figures isn't my job - and both BioShock 2 and Mafia II sold well (but are very different games with very different fan bases.)

As the head of community, I'd say I'm one of the most well informed people about not just Steam, but all different forms of content delivery and digital rights management - again, please don't take your personal opinions and assertions and present them as fact (and if you do want to present them as fact, such as the claim that Steam is less popular than GFWL, please provide links so we don't have to get into debates about the validity of the statements.) I respect everyone's personal opinion and just as we don't want console wars, we don't need GFWL vs. Steam wars here.

[ilblogics]

I've waited for this game for YEARS and you throw this at me? I hate Steam, honestly with all my heart.
I don't mind if someone wants to use it as an OPTION but I don't want it forced onto me, please, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, don't force me to use Steam because I assure you, you'll be losing my business.

[zndkwn1+]

Im posting here because of my DNF, though I do know that 2k released several games with Steamworks, like mafia 2 and Civ V. Dont know much bout them since they don't interest me, but there seem to have been a less than stellar welcome from the, let's say, loud threads made elsewhere in here bout them.

[Arrowdel]

Yeah, because this forum is so busy with people expressing that. Head over to the BioShock 2 forum, and ask everyone there how much they loved GFWL.

Head over to Capcom forums and ask people how many of them had any problems with GFWL in Street Fighter 4 or Dead Rising 2. Tip: not many. Want to know how many people still hate Valve for the Half-life 2 mandatory Steam fiasco? Steam suffers from major hiccups to this date, especially when an AAA game comes along.

As a publicly traded company, giving out those figures isn't my job - and both BioShock 2 and Mafia II sold well (but are very different games with very different fan bases.)

As the head of community, I'd say I'm one of the most well informed people about not just Steam, but all different forms of content delivery and digital rights management - again, please don't take your personal opinions and assertions and present them as fact (and if you do want to present them as fact, such as the claim that Steam is less popular than GFWL, please provide links so we don't have to get into debates about the validity of the statements.) I respect everyone's personal opinion and just as we don't want console wars, we don't need GFWL vs. Steam wars here.

I understand that and respect the point you're trying to get across, Liz. My point wasn't that GFWL is more popular in general (Microsoft's fault), but if you lived in Central Europe, I'm sure you'd share my sentiments. Steam is not liked. People usually buy games using it because they have no other choice.
As for GFWLvsSteam part, why do you - as 2K - honestly need to choose between them? EA doesn't do that and they're #1 PC publisher in the world. They try to sell their games wherever they can without limiting themselves to Steam store. They choose neutral DRM methods (Steamworks comes with a Steam store bundled, that's the business Valve is in. Neither GFWL nor Impulse do that, and they allow games to be sold everywhere because of that).

[jorgemalgom]

Ok, people the thing is:

People who love steam ++++> People who hate steam

People who buy on steam sale ++> People who buy at retail

I have purchased mafia 2 and Civ V and Borderlands because they have steamwork y like the steamwork features as so many people.

Stop whining.

Congratulation 2k going steamwork is the way to go despite the minority of close minded people.

Now DNF will be a fist day buy for me. When it's gonna be available for pre-purchase on steam?

[Damien_Azreal]

This is awesome news. I was hoping DNF would use STEAMworks, and now... happy day.

[Codex]

Guys, I'm going to give a warning not to attack other users opinion. Debate facts - don't name call.

[TheScarecrow]

Stop whining.

But here in the land of censorship (Germany) Steam is used to prevent mature people from playing games the government doesn`t like, (i.e. Call of Duty and much more) - I really don`t want to play a censored version of the Duke in German language. I want to play the original game. So with using Steamworks the worst has come to the worst. ... How can you do such a thing to the German Duke fans?

[Relight]

I do think it's really personal opinion and experience from the gamer's point of view.

From the publisher's point of view, it's their evaluation of the available DRM and distribution methods and platforms, as well as their experience of what has worked for them in the past.

We can make our opinions heard, and 2K has a good track record of interacting with fans, but ultimately, though I believe that fans who take time to post on a publisher's forums are the biggest fans, a publisher is still going to look at their sales and their marketing research and data more than what they hear from fans here, who really represent only a small portion of sales.

When I considered purchasing Borderlands GOTY, I looked at the game at retail and found that it apparently came with a printed map and a printed Duke Nukem First Access Club Certificate - both of which would be cool - but then I also realized that it used Securom, and a Gamespy account. Great, another account to sign up for. I assumed it would not offer me the convenience of not requiring the disc in my drive, which is kind of a big deal to me because I play a lot of games these days, and it's so hassle-free to have all my games either 1) not require a disc check or 2) are games that are in my Steam account.

So I bought it on Steam. Which makes my current game-playing tally thus:

All these accounts and DRMs I don't even know about - 0 games.

GFWL account - 2 games.

Steam account - dozens of games.

Finally, all those other disc-based DRM games - I've either purchased them again from Good Old Games (GOG.com - completely DRM free) or purchased some of them again, when on sale, from Steam, if they're not available from GOG.com.

[ilblogics]

It's because they don't care, at all. They're saying Steamworks and that won't change. Even though using a companys service that is competition in the game world is the stupidist thing I've ever heard and Steams limitations are crap they won't change it. They go 'oh we're listening' but that doesn't mean they're doing ANYTHING at all. IMO EA has it right, the DRM in BC2 and Medal of Honor was great.

[Fugue]

My point wasn't that GFWL is more popular in general (Microsoft's fault), but if you lived in Central Europe, I'm sure you'd share my sentiments. Steam is not liked. People usually buy games using it because they have no other choice.

It is easy to suggest Steam's success is based on it being forced on customers, but it is popular for many reasons already stated here, and if GFWL was used those that don't like that (which are many) would be in a similar position, there is no perfect solution to DRM.

if Steam was dropped in favor of something, the complaints would be the same.

[ilblogics]

Perfect solution to DRM right here fullas!
Don't punish your paying customers by using any DRM. It only rewards pirates because they don't have to be forced to use DRM.
Also, I've waited for this game for years so regardless of how much I hate Steam and despise 2K for being so dimwitted for using it I'm going to buy the game and play the hell out of it.

[zndkwn1+]

It's because they don't care, at all. They're saying Steamworks and that won't change. Even though using a companys service that is competition in the game world is the stupidist thing I've ever heard and Steams limitations are crap they won't change it. They go 'oh we're listening' but that doesn't mean they're doing ANYTHING at all. IMO EA has it right, the DRM in BC2 and Medal of Honor was great.

They're listening, they're not doing anything of what you may say,but they're listenig nonetheless. That's important.

[ilblogics]

Good point.

[Fugue]

perfect solution to DRM right here fullas!
Don't punish your paying customers by using any DRM

not really a solution, it's never going to happen

google ANY DRM and you'll find plenty of similar rants about whichever system a publisher uses.