Inept AI - Another Chapter for the Timeless Saga.

[M A F I A]

I was playing on a Real World Map (Huge) as Egypt. I spawned in the middle of US and my closest neighbors were Spain (located in Canada), Arabia and Iroquois that were sharing South America. Dealing with Spain was a quickie, in a few turns poor Isabella was relegated to a single island, I decided to let her live though. I was quick to exterminate Arabia as well, the Iroquois though presented a problem, they were outteching me and outnumbering me heavily. So I gave up the idea of another genocide for a time being; something though didn't go according to the plans.

Isabella, which I left alive ages before instead of exterminate her somehow allied to the Iroquois, she declared war on me (she had just a lone rifleman) and dragged the Iroquois along. I sweated profusely to keep the Iroquois at bay, especially since they kept throwing at me AA one by one on my cities AND loads of guided missiles, then I killed Isabella and a few turns later, for unknown reasons the Iroquois decided it was time for peace and quit the war altogether (they were winning by the way).

Mean while, in Eurasia it was a perpetual war. Elizabeth managed to conquer almost ALL Asia (exterminating 3 civs in the process) while Siam managed to get all Africa and Europe and while the Shongai had just a tiny bit of India. 10% of Elizabeth's army alone was more than enough to wipe out my entire empire (the whole US) but she didn't think at all to embark and come to conquer me (even though she was clearly aiming for domination) instead she decided it was better to sit in her vast territories and randomly moving all her units.

So I opted to go for a Science Victory, built all the Factories, Nuclear Plants and Spaceship Factories, Apollo Program etc... As soon as I finished the FIRST part of the spaceship a single AI decided to compete with me and insult me at the same time so Askia announced he was starting the Apollo Program and he was popping out regularly on my diplomacy screen threatening to use nuclear weapons (even though he was light years away from my empire), of course, by the time I finished my last piece of spaceship Askia managed to complete the FIRST piece so it was too late since I already won.

Now, it's question time:

- Why does AI refuses to embark plenty of units and go conquering a new continent? Apart from the lone embarked unit for random reasons while sieging a town AI seems to avoid that chapter entirely.

- Why the AI never move her ships in a fleet? My opponent owns most of Asia and all I can find is the lone destroyer patrolling the coasts?

- If an AI decides to go for a Science Victory, does she have to wait for me to go for it first? Couldn't have Askia started it sooner since it was clear he wasn't going neither cultural nor domination?

- If I spare an AI as an act of mercy, as a reward do I have to get 'everlasting hate'? Does it make any sense, especially if I am in the position of finish her off with a spare battleship of the 10 I own?

- What's the purpose of running for future techs if when the AI acquires that advantage over me does not do anything with it?

[sectoid]

- If an AI decides to go for a Science Victory, does she have to wait for me to go for it first? Couldn't have Askia started it sooner since it was clear he wasn't going neither cultural nor domination?

No, in many games I had to declare war to stop the ai finishing his/hers Spaceship.
Even if I dont even have the technology to build Apollo program.

[jacypr]

Your post, M A F I A, just shows how far the AI in Civ 5 is far away from being "regular". Right now it is very poor.

Some MODs do make a better AI just by fine tunning the "flavors" for each one. If you don't know what's "flavors", it is some definitions on certain .xml files that guides some choices by the AI, like what's she like to produce, what aspects of the enemies civs she considers most while judging them (some put value on military strengh, others in economics strengh, others cultural strengh etc), what kind of victory is the favorite one etc etc.

The MODs I play put more incentive in embarking units, but much of the problem is in the core of the game.

So all we can do is wait for more patches or wait for the full SDK to be released to see if anyone in the community is up to the task of improving the worse AI of Civilization series history.

[M A F I A]

No, in many games I had to declare war to stop the ai finishing his/hers Spaceship.
Even if I dont even have the technology to build Apollo program.

lt was supposed to be a rethorical question

Your post, M A F I A, just shows how far the AI in Civ 5 is far away from being "regular". Right now it is very poor.

First of all, thanks for spelling my handle correctly; I think that's a first. As for the rest even though I certainly didn't mean to sound whiny I just wanted to share my experience with the flawed AI (Which I don't think is horribly flawed but still, it can be certainly 'upgraded')

[jacypr]

First of all, thanks for spelling my handle correctly; I think that's a first. As for the rest even though I certainly didn't mean to sound whiny I just wanted to share my experience with the flawed AI (Which I don't think is horribly flawed but still, it can be certainly 'upgraded')

But I didn't think it was whiny at all. I think you described very well and objectively what happens in the vast majority of games with vanilla and all those points needs to be addressed. I just think there's too much basic stuff that are simply broken in the AI, it's kindda ridiculous.

[Jazzterisk]

Speaking of inept AI, I always shake my head when the a computer civ denounces me a few turns after attacking me. I kind of guessed that they hated me already; I think it goes without notifying me. Perhaps, it's to rub salt in my already raw wound? Another one that twiggles my brain is when the civ that attacked me re-declares war after we've already been at war for a few turns.

[Cr(+)sshair]

I have one question since you played Egypt...did they revolt?

[Crespire]

I have one question since you played Egypt...did they revolt?

M A F I A doesn't seem like some sort of autocratic strongman.

[Cr(+)sshair]

M A F I A doesn't seem like some sort of autocratic strongman.

Depends on if he was in control for 30 turns =P

[brxbrx]

this thread makes me wonder, has there ever been a strategy game where people liked the AI?
Me, I liked Civ4BtS AI.
But I hear in so many threads on so may forums people griping about poor AI in Total War, poor AI in their RTS games, in their non-4x TBS games etc.

[Cr(+)sshair]

this thread makes me wonder, has there ever been a strategy game where people liked the AI?
Me, I liked Civ4BtS AI.
But I hear in so many threads on so may forums people griping about poor AI in Total War, poor AI in their RTS games, in their non-4x TBS games etc.

The only time I was really challenged was in Dawn of Discovery: Venice. AI was always two steps ahead of me and had a constant military resupply chain in hard mode. Sins of a Solar Empire wasn't too bad either!

In terms of turn-based games... Alpha Centauri still holds a place in my heart =P

[SnakeDocMaster]

I love when I get denounced the turn after I give them a unit or some one sided trade deal in trying to get their good graces

And it isn't for any reason. It's because they don't like my face...

[brxbrx]

The only time I was really challenged was in Dawn of Discovery: Venice. AI was always two steps ahead of me and had a constant military resupply chain in hard mode. Sins of a Solar Empire wasn't too bad either!

In terms of turn-based games... Alpha Centauri still holds a place in my heart =P

yes! SMCA definitely had good AI. and believable, too! although Pravin Lau and Deirdre were a little aggressive compared to their bios. mostly lau, deirdre was nature's defender

[Cr(+)sshair]

yes! SMCA definitely had good AI. and believable, too! although Pravin Lau and Deirdre were a little aggressive compared to their bios. mostly lau, deirdre was nature's defender

Remember X-Com? That game was brutal.

[Jazzterisk]

this thread makes me wonder, has there ever been a strategy game where people liked the AI?
Me, I liked Civ4BtS AI.
But I hear in so many threads on so may forums people griping about poor AI in Total War, poor AI in their RTS games, in their non-4x TBS games etc.

I agree completely.

The only thing I hated about the AI in Civ V BTS was the stacks of doom. I heard there was a mod to limit the size of the stacks but I'm not sure how the computer would adapt to this. It might just end up using 5 stacks of 10 then.

[jacypr]

this thread makes me wonder, has there ever been a strategy game where people liked the AI?
Me, I liked Civ4BtS AI.
But I hear in so many threads on so may forums people griping about poor AI in Total War, poor AI in their RTS games, in their non-4x TBS games etc.

People complain a lot about other games but few are comparable to Civ 5.

The Total War series, for instance, usually ships with crappy AI, but it's one of the easiest AIs to MOD, cos it's almost a matter to experiment with the tables of the DB which has the parameters that controls many moves of the combat AI. And yet, even with its flaws, you still get beaten by the AI if you're somewhat outnumbered or with worst units, something that doesn't happen in Civ 5: you can be greatly outnumbered and still beat the AI cos it does stupid things like:

- embark units without scort near your ships that only needs to move into that tile to destroy the unit: automatic kill.
- dance units at your city range so they can be bombarded to death.
- put defenseless units ahead of powerful ones, so they can be crushed with ease.

Things like that are the basic of basics. It should be hardcoded like: "if <in.city.bombardment.range = 1> then either attack of get the f*** out", or "if <enemy.ship.is.near=1> then don't even think about embarking".

In RTS games the variables are so much that it is hard to make an AI that covers all possibilities and it's a genre historically made for multiplayer, so I can give it a break, but we have some great AIs out there with Sins of a Solar Empire and Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance with an AI mod whose name I don't remember, sorry. Company of Heroes also provided me with great fun playing skirmishes agains the AI in high difficulties, but only against the allied AI. The Axis AI is bad, imo.

But the point is, while you can complain about the AI of certain games, they always have one or another flaw that can be exploited if you do the right thing, but if you chose not to exploit its flaws you can have a great time (I do that with Napoleon: Total War. If you play the battles like a real simulation of reality - instead of doing crazy stuff that couldn't be done back then - you can have epic fun battles).

On the other hand... in Civ 5, you can even do the wrong thing several times but still come out victorious.

That's not an Artificial Inteligence, it's an Artificial Stupidity.

[Valkrionn]

I agree completely.

The only thing I hated about the AI in Civ V BTS was the stacks of doom. I heard there was a mod to limit the size of the stacks but I'm not sure how the computer would adapt to this. It might just end up using 5 stacks of 10 then.

Pretty much exactly what it does, but that's a good thing IMO. Helps the AI focus the stacks.

The modcomp is xUPT by Afforress, and exists in his Rise of Mankind: A New Dawn modmod, and in my own Fall from Heaven modmod, Rise of Erebus.

[tejon]

Kohan had a pretty solid AI, from what I remember. (I hated Kohan II for non-AI reasons so I'm not sure if they kept it up.)

[M A F I A]

I have one question since you played Egypt...did they revolt?

No they didn't, but it was easy to keep happiness at bay, I just had to spam Burial Tombs and raze pointless cities.

M A F I A doesn't seem like some sort of autocratic strongman.

Actually I tend to be, anytime I can (Domination's my favourite victory, and my threshold for 'razing' is very, very low).

Remember X-Com? That game was brutal.

You are right, the AI there was very good, I have been ambushed/sniped by sectoids and ethereals plenty of times, on the other hand the snakesomething were pretty easy to dispose.

[brxbrx]

Disciples II had great AI as well, if I recall. They'd swarm me with weak parties before finishing me off with their main one. Very frustrating.

I'm glad I was wrong! Good AI does in fact exist.

[jacypr]

Kohan had a pretty solid AI, from what I remember. (I hated Kohan II for non-AI reasons so I'm not sure if they kept it up.)

Yes, I agree with you about Kohan's AI.

But I also liked Kohan 2, I found it very similar to the first one. Care to say what you didn't like?

I still play it with my brother against the AI on maximum difficulty (AI with economics and military bonuses). It's very though to beat it.

[sectoid]

In terms of turn-based games... Alpha Centauri still holds a place in my heart =P

Mine too, but what comes to AI, it never made a landfall. You could be in war for the whole game with someone on different continents.. But playing it in multiplayer was great. I miss the music too, the unbelievable ambience has burned in my brain during thousands of hours playing it