Issues after hot-fix. (Unfixed or new?)

[MinoanGuy]

A few bugs I've noticed:

1. Resources received from city-states are not listed in the "imported resources" list in the Economy section. This can cause confusion as to why you have more available instances of a resource than: local + imported.
(I noticed this after a trade agreement where I traded off Gems to a civ and yet I still had x2 Gems available from my x2 Gems local, and no imported ones.)

2. I am mid-game now so can't verify the crazy "denouncement domino effect", but I have had China and India denounce me
for attacking a city-state (Budapest) which they protected and also ignoring their requests to cease attack. Note: I had made declarations of friendship with both before the attack.
The stange thing is they're still "Friendly" according to the diplo system, but insist on calling me bloodthirsty and the tooltip shows ONLY negative factors affecting our relationship.
Possible cause of bug: If you declare friendship with a civ their attitude is locked on "Friendly"? Just a guess..

3. After attacking said city-state over a few turns, in addition to issue #2 I am in "permanent war" with them and the reason stated in the tooltip is "You have attacked so many city-states they want nothing to do with you."... same with a couple other city-stated. But I have only attacked ONE. Budapest. No other civ or city-state.

4. After having declared friendship with a civ, when you talk with them again you still have that option available.

That's all for now.. Anyone else experience these?

[MinoanGuy]

Any comments on these guys?

[Joketa]

The diplomacy is very, very buggy with the new patch. People denounce you, but remain at a Friendly status. People with a friendly status greet you with an angry face and use dialogue for people they hate. At this point, the status seems to mean nothing. When's the patch coming that will fix this patch?

[jmendes]

When's the patch coming that will fix this patch?

You mean the patch to fix the hot-fix that should have fixed the previous patch that took 2 or 3 months to fix half a dozen AI issues of the game that freezes and crashes constantly?
This is a JOKE.

[Sunrunner]

3. After attacking said city-state over a few turns, in addition to issue #2 I am in "permanent war" with them and the reason stated in the tooltip is "You have attacked so many city-states they want nothing to do with you."... same with a couple other city-stated. But I have only attacked ONE. Budapest. No other civ or city-state.

A friend and I did a multiplayer game, us vs 2 AIs with 24 city states. At about turn 10 we both attacked a different city state... this caused permanent war for both of us. Only attacking(and not killing) 2 city states caused 22 others to jump on us.

[MinoanGuy]

You mean the patch to fix the hot-fix that should have fixed the previous patch that took 2 or 3 months to fix half a dozen AI issues of the game that freezes and crashes constantly?
This is a JOKE.

A bad one at that. What I don't understand is aren't there atleast a couple people play-testing when a patch is being developed?
This is my first game (huge map/standard speed) after the major patch and my second since release, but these issues are still glaring. How is it they aren't documented on the first test session?

[jmendes]

A bad one at that. What I don't understand is aren't there atleast a couple people play-testing when a patch is being developed?
This is my first game (huge map/standard speed) after the major patch and my second since release, but these issues are still glaring. How is it they aren't documented on the first test session?

I´m a software developer myself so i know a little about testing and such. My guess is they have less than 5 not-very-experienced people working on this game (fixing, testing and DLC development) including maybe a couple of interns.

[leliel]

I simply have a feeling that there is not enough attention put into the project. I'd almost dare to say that there is no overview on what is going on in that project. It has become more than clear to almost everybody on that forum that this game is simply crawling with bugs and issues. Yes, seems like they try to work hard, collect info, fix problems, but.... It all seems "random". Yes, decisions are made correctly (in my opinion) on what to fix, however I can't shake off the feeling that many of existing problems that occur could be caught beforehand if somebody simply played the game through a couple of times (not to enjoy it, but to test it from an engineering point of view). Some things are so obvious that really require an effort to miss them.

I do not know what conclusions come out of it, but either Firaxis is so badly understaffed that they can't keep up with pretty much anything, or the project itself is not getting the attention it deserves and they simply patch-up major problems without really trying to make it a good product. Just fixing what people yell about and let it go, no quality, no intentions in making it better. Maybe it's just the time pressure. Perhaps all of it. All in all, that is very disappointing.

A patch delivered to change mechanics and fix bugs? True, fixed bugs and improved mechanics in some places but ruined down some other things and introduced bugs to things that worked fine before. Any quality/sanity down there? Does somebody have an idea on which way to go?

I've been following the evolution of the game since day 1 and it seems that game needs lots, literally lots of time, attention and a real personality put in it, before it becomes something of a real value (to me). On top of that I wonder if there is significant QA process behind it. I might be so wrong about it, but it seems like devs compile the code, see if that particular part of the game works and move on to the next task. I have similar feeling about the game design. It's like it all lack proper overview and a person willing to lead that.

I really do hope I'm wrong. But that's the feeling I have, for now.

[Jazzterisk]

The diplomacy is very, very buggy with the new patch. People denounce you, but remain at a Friendly status. People with a friendly status greet you with an angry face and use dialogue for people they hate. At this point, the status seems to mean nothing. When's the patch coming that will fix this patch?

You're right. It seems deeper but really it's just continued to be nonsensical.
I don't know why they had to re-design the system they had; what should have been done is fix the original design. Why did they take out pacts of cooperation and secrecy? Just fix the system so they actually meant and did something. Designing a whole new diplomacy system really starts them back at square one with problems to address in the new system.

I suppose this shows that there really is no good leader running things who's able to guide the team. Perhaps, Jon was let go for this very reason.

[SamBC]

You're right. It seems deeper but really it's just continued to be nonsensical.
I don't know why they had to re-design the system they had; what should have been done is fix the original design. Why did they take out pacts of cooperation and secrecy? Just fix the system so they actually meant and did something. Designing a whole new diplomacy system really starts them back at square one with problems to address in the new system.

I suppose this shows that there really is no good leader running things who's able to guide the team. Perhaps, Jon was let go for this very reason.

I don't think it was new from-scratch. I suspect that the attitude indicator and tooltips were just added to the existing system, reflecting the pro/con attitude changers that were simply invisible before. The only change to actual mechanisms was replacing cooperation/secrecy with friendship/denunciation.

[MinoanGuy]

I don't think it was new from-scratch. I suspect that the attitude indicator and tooltips were just added to the existing system, reflecting the pro/con attitude changers that were simply invisible before. The only change to actual mechanisms was replacing cooperation/secrecy with friendship/denunciation.

I think that's exactly what happened. Somewhat lazy approach though.
These new mechanics should be additions not replacements. The constant "Friendly" status even after being denounced really puts me off. How much more glaring can you get?

Edit: To be fair the declaration of friendship is an improved version of the pact of cooperation. It allows alliances to be formed. So this is ok as a replacement. But the pact of secrecy allowed for a more under-the-table form of denounce, like a hidden conspiracy against another civ, which was cool and IMO should be brought back.

[SamBC]

The "Friendly" when not appearance has been explained as duplicity on the part of the AI. That doesn't explain when the text is outwardly hostile...

[MinoanGuy]

The "Friendly" when not appearance has been explained as duplicity on the part of the AI. That doesn't explain when the text is outwardly hostile...

Exactly. I think the duplicity idea works when they are seemingly friendly toward you in dialogue and stated attitude, but are actually plotting to attack soon (backstab). The problem is when they're dissing and denouncing you, but the status is still stuck on "Friendly". That's just plain wrong. An obvious bug if ever there was one.