Remaining SecuROM/Activation talk here.

[2K Elizabeth]

hey guys,

here's a new securom and activation talk thread. here are rules:

1. don't insult each other, me, or any mods. even in a covert way will get you banned.
2. don't talk about why members have been banned. you can talk about them, and the topics they brought up, but from here on out, i don't discuss why i ban, or why mods ban.
3. don't start flame wars. i don't care if you love or hate SecuROM, let's stay civil.

if we can't keep this one in line, i'm not going to allow anymore. and that would suck, you guys are allowed to talk about this all you want. i don't want to be a censor, but i want to spend my time working on your updates, and not on policing people's posts.

[Pikey Joe]

So a thread with 3,241 posts and 319,340 views will now rapidly sink from view, thus hiding the level of discontent about Bioshock's shameful DRM from new members.

Nice.

Don't bother to ban me, I'm off anyway - I've wasted too much time here.

[wildquinine]

Originally Posted by Pikey Joe

So a thread with 3,241 posts and 319,340 views will now rapidly sink from view, thus hiding the level of discontent about Bioshock's shameful DRM from new members.

Nice.

Don't bother to ban me, I'm off anyway - I've wasted too much time here.

Yes, I was just going to say - you should probably sticky that again, otherwise it won't be available as an information resource any more.

[2K Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by wildquinine

Yes, I was just going to say - you should probably sticky that again, otherwise it won't be available as an information resource any more.

excellent idea, i'll give a rundown on the information i have given out thus far:

1. revoke tool is in final testing and coming soon. announcement will be posted here as soon as it goes live.
2. we are beta testing a PC patch.
3. we will not be releasing a generic SecuROM uninstaller, however, SecuROM can help you uninstall any remaining pieces if you wish. the pieces left behind, if deleted manually, may interfere with other games on your system that also use SecuROM.
4. i have no information about removing activations entirely.

[wildquinine]

Originally Posted by 2K Elizabeth

excellent idea, i'll give a rundown on the information i have given out thus far:

1. revoke tool is in final testing and coming soon. announcement will be posted here as soon as it goes live.
2. we are beta testing a PC patch.
3. we will not be releasing a generic SecuROM uninstaller, however, SecuROM can help you uninstall any remaining pieces if you wish. the pieces left behind, if deleted manually, may interfere with other games on your system that also use SecuROM.
4. i have no information about removing activations entirely.

Thanks for that. It's good to see things in black and white again.

As you are aware, my primary concern is number 4.

If it works as intended, the release of the revoke tool will mean that - by finely controlling your PC installations (and for the first time in a game, your uninstallations as well) - you can maintain a number of activations indefinitely.

Please take the following points back to your employers:

If all software required you to uninstall it before you could format your hard drive, the process of maintaining a machine would be unreasonably impaired.

Since Bioshock is the first instance of this in a game, it would be unwise for me to support this scheme. I would not like to see this protection used again, and so I cannot reasonably support it.

Since the activation no longer functions to protect the game from experienced pirates, and the CD protection continues to protect the game from inexperienced pirates, the activation no longer affects piracy. It serves only to inconvenience the customer. It would be wise, fair, and prudent to remove it.

If there are reasons why it is not possible to remove it, we would appreciate honest answers.

Remember: the demo contained securom, and there was no CD check or activation on the demo. So we do know that securom does not have to be removed in order for the CD check and/or activation to be removed.

You can remove the limited activations without leaving an unprotected executable.

Leave the CD check if you must. Remove the limited activations.

[BioShockWins]

Originally Posted by darious

Man... call a mod "Mrs. Bubbles" and all hell breaks loose.

Hence the rule against insulting other users...

Isn't it strange how things work out like that?

[Destop]

Right. Tabula rasa.

Originally Posted by BioShockWins

Hence the rule against insulting other users...

Isn't it strange how things work out like that?

Originally Posted by 2K Elizabeth

hey guys,

i just want to say we're not trying to hide or bury any complaints or comments. i unstickied this thread because every so often i go through and unstick threads that have been up for a couple weeks, just to clear up the forums and make sure we don't have too much clutter up there.

please try and be cordial to our mods and techs, even if you are unhappy. i welcome all your complaints to me -- but those guys are just trying to keep this place clean and efficient, and help you with your tech problems. you can yell at me, though!

Of course, the nice rules in the first post of this thread outdate this statement but still, there was the opening to "yell". Always be careful with openings.

I would like to take the occasion to support wildquinine's post and all the friendly advice contained therein. But I would also like to state - in a similarly cordial fashion - that in the future, if you use a DRM scheme with limited activation credits, communicate this in a timely manner and include an appropriate wording on the box so that consumers get all the relevant information and may take an informed purchase decision.

Until that piece manages to resonate within the industry, a piece of advice to the rest reading this. It comes from an individual with extremely high anticipations for a game, but then was sorely disappointed in a publishing house's DRM decision path and had to learn things the hard way.

Do not buy PC games on launch day anymore. Rather, wait a week or two and read forums/newsletters to discover whether or not the game contains features - in or out of the game - which do not appeal to you. No matter how great the game is or how much you're looking forward to it. Have the patience and search for the entire story. Unlike just about every other consumer product out there, reading the tin just isn't sufficient in the realm of PC gaming at this time, apparently. Very sad, but true.

... Or just go console, don't you know? No fuss, no problems, it's all about the game.

This is probably my last post in this thread and forum, where my freedom and that of all the other users to comment on things has been restricted. My last post probably, as the previous sentence can be interpreted as a covert insult towards the mod-ship and a violation of thread rule 1, instead of fact.

Take care.

[ddave]

Originally Posted by wildquinine

Yes, I was just going to say - you should probably sticky that again, otherwise it won't be available as an information resource any more.

Originally Posted by 2K Elizabeth

excellent idea, i'll give a rundown on the information i have given out thus far:

No offence Elizabeth, but while the input from you/2K can be summed up in four simple points as you have just done --and these are important, don't get me wrong--there was a lot more in the way of resources in the big thread (and the 'securom breaks U.S. federal law' thread that got shut down at the same time) than just your own contributions. Detailed instructions on removing securom and backing up Bioshock installs, to name but two. Advice on possible means of redress for consumers who feel hard done by for another. And more besides. Community at work and all that. I suspect this is the sort of thing wildquinine had in mind when suggesting a re-sticky. Failing that, it's open to a scrupulous mod to sticky a summary of such useful posts instead.

I'm a bit hesitant to post even this, though it's done in the spirit of clarification, because I think wildquinine's last post here, number *gulp* 5, deserves to be the last word on 'remaining securon/activation talk'.

Just before the big thread got shut down one of Elizabeth's posts said "decisions ...do not happen in days". Fair enough, but if 2K intended to uphold Ken's promise from the start there would have been no problem in putting out a confirmation quickly, so it seems there is some major mismatch between key players in 2K there. You have to know this looks really bad. Anyway, it seems the decision was/is still to be made. However many weeks or months it takes to get there, we'll surely see from the company's actions if they do follow through with the removal of activation.

If 2K don't remove it, *absolute* shame on them. If they do, this was all an abortive dog and pony show which battered the company's image for NOTHING.

[Oceanic Crash]

I don't understand what this thread is about.

[ddave]

Regarding Destop's post: yes, sound advice on seeing how the land lies with future PC releases. I'll never be there on release day again no matter who developed it.

But if this becomes the norm...I cannot get on with console controllers (though I've tried) so that will be the end of gaming for me after more years than I'd like to think about.

Funnily enough, after all this I can't say I'm too bothered about the prospect right now. Too nasty a taste.

Outstanding, 2K.