GOTW 11/1/09 Aztecs

[feneon]

I'm relatively new to playing the GOTW (I'm very new to talking about games online), so I hope this is an appropriate time/place to ask questions. I can get a decent domination win on chieftain (finally reached a win at 2600 BC) and now I'm moving on to the next hardest level. My question is, is it even possible to take over a capitol at the beginning before they get an archer army? I thought I was getting decent at this game, but I'm kind of stumped on this one.

*edit: Nevermind, I guess you can horserush into Washington if you're quick. I can't crack Ghandi, though.

[generic_toaster]

Originally Posted by Zso_Zso

I also played about an hour and got a 2200BC win. Although there is no walk-in, I could take the Indians in 3500BC (practically as good as a walk-in), then Chinese in 3000BC, Spain in 2800BC, finally America in 2300BC.

Got it! The indians at 3500bc, when it worked I almost couldn't believe it...nice going Zso_Zso! It's very clever. Now for the rest...

[robvollman]

This week's game really pissed me off.

I started playing Sunday, and was surprised how tough the game was. I play at King level, generally (I'm relatively new to CivRev).

So on my way to work and on my back I thought about what strategy would work. Knowing a little bit about the map, and the Aztecs strengths, I crafted a strategy that ought to work ok.

Here's what I did:
- Moved my Settler up and made my capital on the plains west of the hill, south of the named forest, and southwest of the barbarians
- I put it on research, got horseback riding, and cranked out a couple horsemen to go conquer the barbarians, name the landmarks, and grab the huts. One of the huts had a third horsemen, formed an army, and placed it in the capital.
- I flipped it back to research and got bronze working so I could use the fish and build archers
- Somewhere in there I reached my 100$, and built my second city in the plains to the southeast
- Cranked out enough archers to form armies in the city and the adjacent hill, and built a settler that was placed in the original starting location
- Was first to get Masonry, giving me walls in the capital. Great strongpoint now: walled city next to a hill, both with archer armies
- Built a trireme to get the barbarian and the artifact to the west. It went exploring, but the Chinese destroyed it before it got very far. Fortunately my second trireme, which went east, then north west, survived quite a bit longer and (surprisingly) found some artifacts on its world tour
- The entire world was basically at war with me the entire game, which was very frustrating. Don't they have something better to do?
- They never got past my strongpoint, they just got chewed up attacking my archers, and chewed up by my horsemen if left without an archer army to defend
- Indians placed two triremes on my fishes and dropped off legions (to get chewed up) every few turns
- Built two more settlers to complete the settling of my rear area.
- All cities also built temples, to leverage the Aztec ability
- When I entered the new age, built those half-price roads
- I used a builder to build the Magna Carta and started building courthouses
- Also built extra settlers to create cities on the islands to the east. A Chinese galleon destroyed my trireme with a last settler on board that was going for one of the northern islands
- A Chinese cruiser landed a knight army just to the west of my two-city island. I rushed a pikeman so I could form an army. It was Chinese 8-strength Knight against my 9-strength pikeman. Of course the Chinese army won and captured the island.

At that point I was just so annoyed with the whole thing. Every single empire at war with me from day one, getting chewed up senselessly against my impassable barrier. Despite my devotion to research from day one, I was just barely keeping up with the Chinese. And yet, no one was attacking them. No one was attacking anyone except me. And when my precious new island cities were taken so quickly and easily, it was just the last straw.

Maybe I should be playing at the Chieftain or Warlord level.

Sigh.

[Jaguar-Man]

It's all about attacking them QUICKLY. Don't worry about archers so early if at all

[Zso_Zso]

Originally Posted by generic_toaster

Got it! The indians at 3500bc, when it worked I almost couldn't believe it...nice going Zso_Zso! It's very clever. Now for the rest...

Good job, you figured it out too ! It needs some thinking outside the box
China in 3000BC also needs an unusual trick...
I think 2600BC is possible, I failed to do it twice for 2 different reasons: once I was missing blitz on my horse army and got 2400BC, the other time I had the blitz but lost the 2nd battle with 12:8 advantage at Washington -- lame. So it needs some seed tweaking, but I believe it can be done.

Originally Posted by robvollman

Here's what I did:
- Moved my Settler up and made my capital on the plains west of the hill, south of the named forest, and southwest of the barbarians
- I put it on research, got horseback riding, and cranked out a couple horsemen to go conquer the barbarians, name the landmarks, and grab the huts. One of the huts had a third horsemen, formed an army, and placed it in the capital.

So far, sounds all good.

Originally Posted by robvollman

- I flipped it back to research and got bronze working so I could use the fish and build archers
- Somewhere in there I reached my 100$, and built my second city in the plains to the southeast
- Cranked out enough archers to form armies in the city and the adjacent hill, and built a settler that was placed in the original starting location

This is where you starting to make big mistakes. You do not need bronze working, archers and extra cities if you want to win fast. Just keep rushing horseman with all your gold every turn and attack the enemy with horse armies as soon as possible, you can take them before they form archer armies.

Originally Posted by robvollman

- Was first to get Masonry, giving me walls in the capital. Great strongpoint now: walled city next to a hill, both with archer armies
- Built a trireme to get the barbarian and the artifact to the west. It went exploring, but the Chinese destroyed it before it got very far. Fortunately my second trireme, which went east, then north west, survived quite a bit longer and (surprisingly) found some artifacts on its world tour

You wasted time on research for defence, when you should've grabbed the knight earlier and attacked the other civs with it before they build a ship.

Originally Posted by robvollman

- The entire world was basically at war with me the entire game, which was very frustrating. Don't they have something better to do?
- They never got past my strongpoint, they just got chewed up attacking my archers, and chewed up by my horsemen if left without an archer army to defend
- Indians placed two triremes on my fishes and dropped off legions (to get chewed up) every few turns
- Built two more settlers to complete the settling of my rear area.
- All cities also built temples, to leverage the Aztec ability

By turtling and focusing on defence you allowed them to go strong and go on the offensive. You should take the war to them, not wait for them to attack you.

Building temples is also a big mistake, especially when the Ark of the Covenant is on the map (North of China and West of Spain), if you pick that up, you get temples in all your cities for free.

I hope I am not offending you with my comments. Please, take them as constructive criticism, I am trying to suggest ways how you can improve your game.

[feneon]

Originally Posted by Zso_Zso

Good job, you figured it out too ! It needs some thinking outside the box
China in 3000BC also needs an unusual trick...
I think 2600BC is possible, I failed to do it twice for 2 different reasons: once I was missing blitz on my horse army and got 2400BC, the other time I had the blitz but lost the 2nd battle with 12:8 advantage at Washington -- lame. So it needs some seed tweaking, but I believe it can be done.

What level are you playing on, out of curiosity?

[Zso_Zso]

Originally Posted by feneon

What level are you playing on, out of curiosity?

My postings were all talking about Deity level.

I have not yet played the other, some harder (see post linked below) levels yet this week:
http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/sho...78&postcount=9

[Mowinkel]

Originally Posted by Zso_Zso

Good job, you figured it out too ! It needs some thinking outside the box
China in 3000BC also needs an unusual trick...
I think 2600BC is possible, I failed to do it twice for 2 different reasons: once I was missing blitz on my horse army and got 2400BC, the other time I had the blitz but lost the 2nd battle with 12:8 advantage at Washington -- lame. So it needs some seed tweaking, but I believe it can be done.

I totally agree, thinking outside the box really helped me this time. Thank you for the clue. I figured out how to get the Indians in 3500 BC, but combined it with my old strategy.
I got the Indians a little bit later, 3100 BC, the Americans 2700 BC, the Chinese 2600 BC, and finally the Spanish at 2400 BC But don't know if this strategy can be used for an earlier win.

[Zso_Zso]

I managed to get the 2600BC domination victory on Deity. Conquest order was:
3500BC Indians
3000BC China
2800BC America
2700BC Spain

This is the best I can do this week for domination. I do not see any way to improve my strategy. I might try an economic and/or cultural game if I have time.

However, the leaderboard seems completely broken now. The last 2 weeks it was posting results very slow (like 2 days of delay), but now it seems to be dropping results it has already shown previously. E.g. Last night I saw my 2200BC result up, but now it only shows my 400AD technology win which I did LATER. It has also forgotten the Chieftain leader LeoBenzoid, who had a 3000BC win up last night, but now shows the best to be 2800BC by Rylos_Centauri.

ps: correction: the leaderboard does show the 3000BC chieftain for LeoBenzoid and 2200BC deity for me, IF you look at the domination category, BUT the combined shows the slower tech victories instead of the faster domination one -- this is a new "feature" I guess, previously it was always showing the fastest victory under combined.

[lordbah]

> - Indians placed two triremes on my fishes and dropped off legions (to get chewed up) every few turns

This is another thing that pisses me off about this game. Every few turns, bam they land another three armies on you. These armies are just spontaneously created on the boat while it remains parked on your shore. It doesn't return to their land to board them, no other boats come along to replace this one. MY boats don't have this magic ability. It's either a really stupid bug or a really stupid intentional AI cheat.