@Ken, Are there some tweaks to reduce this damn Splicer-Respawn?

[ZappasGhost]

Hi there,

Bioshock is a cool Game, BUT sometimes it is to much Non-Stop-Action.

There is no Chance to have 1 Minute without fighting. Every second is some Splicer respawning behind your back, and this is to much! A lot of Players like it to have some time to explorer, to relax and recover, to enjoy Graphics and Atmosphäre. But Bioshock is more fighting than Serious Sam.

My Question is:
"Is there some Chance to reduce (or disable) Respawning Monsters?"

Maybe per Patch or in one System or Config File? Maybe your ConfigINI.IBF?

Thx a lot...
ZG

[fish99]

Was going to post a new thread but found this one :)

I would also really appreciate a way of either toning down or eliminating the respawning. It damages the integrity of the game and spoils the immersion when enemies respawn in dead ends, or areas you've just this second walked through and you know are clear, or areas where there's nowhere they could have come from. It doesn't make any sense. It reminds us we're just playing a game rather than feeling like it's a real place.

Please, just like you did in System Shock 2, can we have a command line tweak to reduce or eliminate respawning. I know developers are always terrified we're going to get bored and stop playing if we haven't fought an enemy for 30 seconds, but there are some people out there with the intellect to appeciate the added reality of a world where the events that happen make some sort of logical sense.

There's also far too many cut scenes or trigger events where you can see enemies 'appear out of thin air' if you happen to be standing in the right spot. Again it spoils the immersion.

[Nkon]

lol... its perfectly logical that they came in after having a swim around rapture, they crawled through some cracked glass :)

[BioShockWins]

I prefer having some come back... if you miss something, it keeps you from going insane of bordom. :)

I wish more games were like this.

[fish99]

I prefer having some come back... if you miss something, it keeps you from going insane of bordom. :)

I wish more games were like this.
Fine. We're not asking for respawning to be removed for everyone, just an ini setting so that people who don't want it have that option. It wouldn't change your game at all. You could still have enemies respawning 2 foot behind you in a dead end :D

[Ashsimmonds]

Frank Zappa rules!!!!

Back on topic now.

[Twinsen]

They gotta keep you busy between boss fights and cutscenes.

[fish99]

Can we keep the OT stuff to a minimum. We're not talking about regular splicer fights, which make up 90% of the game, we're talking about respawning in already cleared areas.

[PuceMoose]

Jut because this is the highest priority issue with Bioshock for me I always post in these threads.

Please, please allow us to disable/reduce the respawn in a patch/mod.

If a player has to be constantly killing to enjoy Bioshock, that's fine - make it an OPTION. Heck, give an option to INCREASE respawn for those that just want it to be an arcade shooter - just please give us 'like to explore' players an option to reduce/disable it.

As always, I still think that best solution is that 'respawning' is limited to corpses that the player has already killed, completely at random; and once they're down a second time, they're gone for good. This also eliminates the annoying 'splicer appearing in a room with only one exit that I just emerged from' problem.

[rubberchimp]

Agreed, the respawn wasn't bothering me most of the way through the game, but I got to a particular area in Point Prometheus last night where nearly every time I left a room or went upstairs/downstairs, something(s) would respawn in the area I just left 5 seconds ago... :eek: went through a lot of ammo and eve in a short time there :P

Like I said, the respawn has been reasonable for me in most places, but this one area just felt surreal by comparison. An option to tone it down a little would be nice. :cool:

[Madmarkus]

I love the respawns. That's what makes it scary. You are never safe!

[Quanta]

I don't think there's anything wrong with the respawns. It gives you the sense that you're being hunted. The only thing I don't like is that they're getting pretty tough where I'm at (Farmer's Market).

[fish99]

I love the respawns. That's what makes it scary. You are never safe!
Great, but some people don't and they'd like an option to reduce/remove it. Hence this thread. I don't mind a game being scary and making you feel like you're never safe, but it has to make sense. You can't have enemies appearing behind you in a dead end.

Come on Ken, you did it with System Shock 2 :) You know you want to...

[trek554]

I love the respawns. That's what makes it scary. You are never safe!its stupid and kills any realism. I have seen a couple videos of it and it can really detract from the game. respawning in a closed room almost right in front of you is beyond stupid.

[fish99]

its stupid and kills any realism. I have seen a couple videos of it and it can really detract from the game. respawning in a closed room almost right in front of you is beyond stupid.
I've actually had that happen several times. In a closed room I had to climb through a window to get in, no enemies in it at all and no quick way to get in, go up to a desk to loot it, turn round and there's an enemy right there behind you like in the space you just walked through.

In system shock 2 if you walked round backwards you could see the enemies appear out of thin air. I wouldn't be surprised if you could do the same thing in Bioshock.

Immersion relies on a believeable world.

[fish99]

Shameless bump on the off chance that someone from 2K might read the thread.

[ZappasGhost]

Lady Bump.

Come on Ken...;_)
Some ini Tweaks and we are happy....

ZG

[gbrading]

It happened once to me, I was in the Tabaccoria in Fort Frolic and I left the store, turned around and a woman suddenly emerged from the shop.

I'll agree, it really does add to the tension throughout the game. However, if you really want to look around the environments, it can get rather difficult/annoying.

[reholli]

This definitely deserves a bump....

[fish99]

However, if you really want to look around the environments, it can get rather difficult/annoying.
Yep, I would like to go back to the levels I've finished and spend some time finding everything I might have missed - secrets, items etc - but with splicers appearing out of thin air every 5 seconds it just becomes a stressful frustrating chore.

I also, and this is something which can't be fixed now, find much of the game far too scripted for my liking. System Shock 2 managed to have very few scripted bits, but Bioshock is full of them. Like getting the bee enzymes when every time you search a container 3 splicers run into the room :rolleyes: It's just dumb and it spoils the immersion. The trigger is too obviously a trigger.

[Wetwarev7]

I've got to chime in on this topic. We really do need a way to reduce the number of respawns. Knowing there is going to be a mob around every corner is more annoying than anything else and it distracts me from exploring.

And it's not scary. I've been playing games long enough that being hunted is just a run of the mill ordinary day for me. Now, having a mob jump out at me when I'm not expecting it, THAT's scary.

It just seems a little ironic for a game to encourage you to take your time and explore yet spawn a mob to stab you in the back while you are doing so.

Also, I would think the whole idea behind taking pictures and researching is to be covert while doing so, and yet with the respawning the way it is, it makes more sense to rush the target and snap a picture up close before you get ambushed from that 'empty' room with one exit behind you. Makes me wonder why they even bothered to put a zoom function on the camera.

If I could have one thing about this game changed, it would be to have the respawning greatly reduced.

[KelsieKatt]

Just so you know, Ken's on vacation right now, so don't expect him to respond anytime soon.

[PuceMoose]

Just in case Ken returns / dev team / etc., here's a little bump to reinforce the importance of this to many of us.

Patch to reduce/eliminate respawn (or a user created mod that does the same) please.

[trek554]

Just in case Ken returns / dev team / etc., here's a little bump to reinforce the importance of this to many of us.

Patch to reduce/eliminate respawn (or a user created mod that does the same) please.I doubt they really care what we think

[greylantern]

Unfortunately the problem is deeper routed than just respawns. having been playing tonight and analysing it some more (until my game/save game corrupted at Fort Frolic meant Black screen and no more game for me)...

I realised pretty much the ONLY thing you do is kill splicers, the rest is really mundane treking around around to pick up completely pointless items... it's just a ridiculous premise that you would be doing everything that dodgy Irish bloke tells you without having a chance to 'play out' your own instincts.

Going from a good game into a pretty bad one for me right now.

RE: the respawning, It's obviously helping to keep 'something' to the game after the initial despatching of boring enemies, the levels are actually quite tiny but just convoluted to feel larger than they are. the goals are stretched out for no obvious reason (nor incentive) and the only thing between the start and end of the game is some tape messages, ****ing about with vending machines and whacking Splicers over and over again (with the same ten phrases and stupid/comical voices which make them about as intimidating as Big Bird).

Yeah i'm pretty down on the game right now and the lock up tonight in Fort Frolic is just the 'icing' on the undercooked cake.

[joe_dude]

<Minor spoilers>

At first, I thought the respawns were kind of annoying, but once I had the research camera, that all changed.

I looked for opportunities to find respawns to take more pics. And once I had maxed out the research, they were practically one-shot kills anyway, so the annoyance factor dropped considerably.

At that point, it became just a preference thing - have something to shoot at and scavenge, or be all alone? No big deal.

[toto12345]

(with the same ten phrases and stupid/comical voices which make them about as intimidating as Big Bird)

Stop wasting my time, you horrid monster!

;)

[dogsolitude_uk]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who hates the constant respawning of enemies in silly places. It was the beehive thing that really annoyed me, and it completely destroyed the immersion.

Maybe it seemed a bit worse than it should have done: I'd just come from playing STALKER and had got used to clearing areas out before scouting around.

A game needs to have a kind of 'logical integrity' to work properly. This is why the U-Invent works, the hacking works, the Physics systems work... All these things have a consistent logic which links the game world to the way we understand the real world.

Spawning enemies in 'cleared' areas defies this logic and ruins immersion. I like being able to go back into cleared areas and exploring whilst it's quieter, though it would make sense for Splicers to wander back of their own accord and find out why it had all gone quiet...

So a 'Spawn Control' would be ideal! :)

C'mon Ken, you know it makes sense... :cool:

[sixstringmonk]

I don't really like the respawn either. I'm an explorer in games. Respawns kind of discourage that type of playing style.

[fish99]

Just a bump in case Ken is back off his vacation.

[Plop]

I haven't played BS much, but I'm already annoyed by the constant respawn. Few examples:

In a hall in medical, there was a splicer cursing and whacking a broken clock. I killed it and went to another room. I wasn't away for long, but when I came back there was another splicer there doing the same scripted thing.

In the neptunes bounty hub, the big hall with bid daddy roaming around. Two leadhead splicers attacked me and after killing 'em I went to the gatherers garden in the next room. When I came back they had already respawned. When running around in that area, it became really repetitive to always fight those splicers.

[BioShockWins]

Well it is a shooter game...

[trek554]

Well it is a shooter game...what does that have to do with it? other shooters dont do it.

[BioShockWins]

what does that have to do with it? other shooters dont do it.

I was refering to the fast pace-ness of it.

Some people like it, others don't. I like it, but I'm still human.

[trek554]

I was refering to the fast pace-ness of it.

Some people like it, others don't. I like it, but I'm still human.ok I see what youre saying then. it just feels more realistic when you have cleared an area that it stayed cleared especially when theres no way more splicers could be there without appearing out of thin air.

[BioShockWins]

That's like saying the charactor comes out of thin air, but you're not. You're just moving from one area and happening to land in a group of other people.

But it would be a good idea for an option. Options are always good.

[Glee]

When I found out that the Mr Bubbles were respawning, on the first level, I filled my wallet in 15 minutes!!

U wait for them, and kill them, and now you are a gatherer, of money... :D :D

but I have to admit I was once taken by surprised, as I returned, and a guy was so much in my face (in my back), that I closely fell off my chair when I turned and faced him...

So I'm not sure I would the future switch "no-respawn"...

[slserpent]

i first really noticed the respawning splicers when, after hacking a safe in a dentist's office, i turned around to see a doctor splicer just standing there, looking at me. my girlfriend was watching me play and literally yelped at this. luckily, i had a shotgun drawn, so he was quickly dispatched; but, this isn't the kind of thing you want happening constantly throughout the game. it's creepy thinking about how long he was just standing there, waiting. i didn't even hear him walk up behind me. maybe it was the case that he had just respawned right then and was just as surprised to see me that he didn't attack.

anyways, since then, they just seem to be popping up everywhere. it's almost as bad as it was in (unmodded) Stalker, where a bandit would come through an area teleport every 30 secs. to me, respawning enemies is one of the cardinal sins of gaming. it takes away your sense of accomplishment and relative security (through situational awareness). sure, it keeps you on your toes and many people like that, but just as many don't.

imho, the best implementation of respawning in Bioshock would be done at random intervals from 5 to 30mins and only from area teleports (i.e. from where you enter and leave an area). the respawning in random back-rooms is just a bit silly and a little more creepy than i can handle. but the perfect solution is to just add a gameplay option to change or disable respawn behavior; there certainly are enough other gameplay options.

[slserpent]

realistically, this question should be directed at a programmer. they can actually add an option for respawn behavior. a designer, such as ken levine, would just tell you that the enemy respawn was designed to be balanced for all players or be true to system shock or some other ideological ****.

[kim44]

what is long enough? I don't think you know thing one about games or how each one can be enjoyed for their merits.play more.

[greylantern]

The respawning ruined the gameplay for me. It felt futile and non rewarding, on top of that it left no real breathing space to set your own pace and soak up the atmosphere. #1 bad gameplay design decision right there, underneath heavy themes and grandiose story, you have to have your rewards/gameplay right and BS fails mainly due to this (and splicers as a constant and little varied enemy in general).

[BioShockWins]

Well it's not like they didn't give us fair warning. This was in the game for at least two years.

EDIT: Thirteen years... (or whenever System Shock first used the respawn, uh, thing)

[kim44]

I"ve been playing Bioshock in hard mode only and I don't think that splicer- respawn is a ploblem. I love the non-stop action. If your having trouble try hacking; turrets, camras or use enrage plasmids.please don"t change a thing. thanks for the ride Ken.

[HamstersforFreedom]

Give us an option to spawn more big daddies. I need to kill more big daddies. Please let me kill more big daddies.

Big...daddies.

[unhappy1]

I don't think killing respawn splicers is a problem. It is just like some splicers would go hiding from being killed and we just happened to bump into the group. Or it is like some splicers just "awaken". It is fun and add to the overall feeling.

Btw, when splicers respawn, can't we just kill them off and continue the exploration? :rolleyes:

And for the splicers pop up the player thing:eek: , I think it adds to the creepy feeling in the game! :D Which I experienced quite a few times!

[trek554]

I don't think killing respawn splicers is a problem. It is just like some splicers would go hiding from being killed and we just happened to bump into the group. Or it is like some splicers just "awaken". It is fun and add to the overall feeling.

Btw, when splicers respawn, can't we just kill them off and continue the exploration? :rolleyes:

And for the splicers pop up the player thing:eek: , I think it adds to the creepy feeling in the game! :D Which I experienced quite a few times!I dont think you know what respawn means. Its stupid if you go into an area that only has one entrance and kill everything and then go back in and its like the same thing all over again. It kills any sense of reality.

[Adabiviak]

Even on Hard difficulty, I found lots of time to explore every nook and cranny with the current respawn level without being hammered by splicers. I only recall one place where the splicers were constantly on the roam (the center floors of Poisedon Plaza). I actually found it about perfect - after an area was cleared and I wanted a fight, I could always find a splicer or two wandering around. Enough for a tango and at the same time, enough to dodge easily if I was on my way to points elsewhere.

[greylantern]

Well it's clear that they mimmicked the RPG way of respawning (random battles in rpg-ese), and that it gives you the chance to go looking for a fight if you need cash or supplies... which is fair enough, but apart from the loss of 'realism' it is also just not that fun to battle with splicers (for me) because they are tedious to dispose of. The bars above their heads serve only to highlight the tedium. Unless you just go around shotgunning or grenade launching, either way they are one of the least pleasing enemies in a FPS game in a long time. To kill them is a chore but needed to 'get some peace' if you want it, if you like to constantly fight then great there is plenty around but again they are all so 'samey' with the same lines repeating.

I also think they should patch the splicer talking, make sure only ONE splicer at a time talks because it does my head in when 2 or more start talking over each other (while Ryan/Atlas is on the radio telling you a part of the story) really poor, the reduction of Spicer respawning would allow the game to 'breathe' more and increase the immersion. It feels way too arcadey as it is now and the energy bars floating over their heads was a bad choice, we KNOW they haven't gone down yet and will keep fighting we don't need a bar to tell us this (only the Big Daddies/bosses should have them imo and even then it's open to debate)

Rapture would be an amazing place to 'game in' if the splicers didn't exist, they are rudimentary and repetitive (and completely lacking intimidating traits). Big Daddies are cool, and there should have been more unique enemies along the lines of those (weird things that could only grow at the bottom of the sea).. talk about missed oppurtunities.

[lurchibald]

I dont think you know what respawn means. Its stupid if you go into an area that only has one entrance and kill everything and then go back in and its like the same thing all over again. It kills any sense of reality.

maybe all splicers have the teleportation plasmid but it was sold out and discontinued by the time jack got there so everyone has it but jack[/reality reinstallation] :p :D

[matches81]

I would opt for reducing spawning to an at least half sensible amount. Some guys said that it makes the game scarier. For me it didn't. It's not in the least scary if you know that the probability of a new splicer in room X is near certainty. It would be scary if the respawning was there but was so less you didn't _know_ there would be some new enemies. How about respawning _some_ splicers when you reenter a level or only respawning in areas far away from the player, so they don't just "pop up" in the room you just left?

I agree that respawning can add to the immersion of a game, if done well. But the respawning in Bioshock feels rather primitive to me and slowly kills atmosphere more and more the farther you get in the game, because you get so used to killing those respawned guys again and again.

[SniperWoolf]

I totally agree.. sometimes it just gets boring. And after a while the game becomes a : Enter "X" room kill splicers, find a door, then enter "Z" room. Find "Y" thing or perfomr a hack, go back to "X" room, oh crap more splicers out of nowhere.. kill them, etc.. etc..

Theres was only ONE time i was completely creeped out. It was in Medical Pavillion. After getting the shotgun i recall, i entered one room where u had to get crouched. There was a dentist chair i remember. And there was a table in the far side. I went to get some EVE and something more that was lying on the table, and a puff of steam filled all the room and my vision. After it cleared a bit, i looked back and there was a Doctor Splicer standing RIGHT behind me looking at me.. It didnt attack. He was just looking.. It freaked me out.

They could improve the "respawns" ... especially in cases where u enter a "CLEARED" CLOSED ROOM, and they respawn at ur back.

[greylantern]

I think they devs just didn't figure on how much modern players like to explore and have 'light and shade' in their games... the immersion improves if you can have some breathing space and are allowed to wander around aimlessly soaking up the atmosphere... no chance in Bioshock because before long you will accidently set off security bots or splicers will respawn to 'challenge' you. :rolleyes:

[keogh]

Just wanna add my name down here. On easy the respawn is fine cos the game is so easy, but on hard the respawning sucks!

I love to explore the levels and have a little respite from all the shooting action. I hate the thought of using tons of ammo to clear a room, then worrying about going back thru the same room to clear more splicers who appeared out of no where and use up more ammo!

SO an option to STOP respawning all together would be good! Don't remove from the game completely, for the people that like respawning, but a switch to stop it would be coolio!

[greylantern]

I hate the thought of using tons of ammo to clear a room, then worrying about going back thru the same room to clear more splicers who appeared out of no where and use up more ammo!

Good point, that's why all firefights (even first time) feel less fun than they should because they are basically 'worthless'. And yes unloading loads of ammo knowing you have to do it all over again if you want to look around is a big fun killer... whoever on the dev team thought it was going to be a good idea needs to play more games and examine why they feel rewarded when progressing and what is just annoying.

[MisterMocie]

Well, it'd be unfair if the splicers couldn't use the vita chambers too...

[mortissitrom]

Of course a selectable Option would be the best for all players, but I don`t think they add such a feature to the game. In fact I don´t think they add anything that isn´t already there ( besides eventully one "bug fixing" patch ) to the game.
But then again besides minor problems I am very happy with the way BioShock turned out ( in comparison with other shooters/games ).

[fish99]

Just bumping this in the hope someone sees it. Would improve the game a good 20% if we had the option to turn the respawning off.

[StevetheBigDaddy]

After you beat it on hard or something? Hate for an option to avoid (in general) all battles to be put at everyone's feet.
You should feel pain before getting pain pills. D=<

[bigjackafro]

At the moment cos Im only half way through the game, I enjoy the respawn rate as I can test all my new gadgets etc.

however it is a bit stressful always having to be on the lookout.

thats why in the med pav I just hung around the tennis ball launcher bit because it doesnt get respawns and it has some nice green carpets and non-malfunctioning lighting.:)

[StevetheBigDaddy]

Yes..feel the suspence and terror building as you find mutilated corpses of Steinman's victims and the doctors who defend thier patients from your volleys of attacks.

Whatever you thought of on the surface, doesn't count for much in Rapture.

[fish99]

Don't suppose a dev ever answered this thread so I'm bumping it in the hope that someone cares enough to give us an option in the patch (an ini setting will do) to reduce or eliminate random respawning. All respawning does is annoy the player and reduce the believeability of the world when enemies suddenly appear in areas you've just cleared and know are empty. It's probably a very easy fix too just to add a ini setting to disable random respawning.

Show us you give a damn 2K, you've already got my money.

[fish99]

...and another.

[BioShockWins]

Don't bump threads.

[fish99]

I was bumping the thread in the hope someone from the dev team would read it. But the patch is here and there's nothing new on adjusting respawning, which is a shame when something trivial like a walk button gets added. And I don't suppose there will be another patch now since most of the issues have been addressed.

Oh well, it's still a good game with the respawning, guess we'll have to live with it.

[tsuave]

I was bumping the thread in the hope someone from the dev team would read it. But the patch is here and there's nothing new on adjusting respawning, which is a shame when something trivial like a walk button gets added. And I don't suppose there will be another patch now since most of the issues have been addressed.

Oh well, it's still a good game with the respawning, guess we'll have to live with it.

There'll be another patch at some point. Whether it'll address that issue, we'll just have to wait and see. But they've only used 1100 of the potential 1250 achievement points, so there'll be another edition of downloadable content at some point.

[michaelg]

Lady Bump.

Come on Ken...;_)
Some ini Tweaks and we are happy....

ZG

I agree with this as well.

Zoot Allure everyone!

[Rebelxd9]

I hated COD 4 spawning of enemies that was just horrible. Every second some baddie was shooting away at you from a closed corner. The bad thing with COD 4 was that you couldn't spend too much time picking off people because they would be replaced ...

I can deal with BioShock's spawning because they always leave goodies. I could use extra money to buy ammo or a extra stimpacks. They don't respawn nearly as fast as COD4 and you can pick off people without the worry of them coming back so quickly...

[ZappasGhost]

Hi there,

I'am sure, for the Devs it is no Problem to tell us something about Bioshocks spawning.ini

BUT, this guys do not like it to help Players with this damn Monster-Respawn
BECAUSE, they know better what good is.....

THX a lot King Ken , of course you are right, YOU are the most famous Game Desinger, we are only stupid consumers...



ZG

"They are what u is...."