Yay, Screenshot Scenario Contest has started!

[Rapture_Tourist]

Good luck to everyone in the US! And start your engines for discussions here :)

For all of us outside the US - Sorry, no entry. I guessed so before :/.

"Contest is open to legal residents of the 50 U.S. and District of Columbia, 18 years or older..."

[Bartekk]

(...) Contest is open to legal residents of the 50 U.S. and District of Columbia (...)

No comments.

[FrenchTart]

That's rather lame :/

Surely it wouldn't be that hard to make it open to non-US people...

[Necros]

I gues it would cost Take2 more, so it wouldn't worth it for them. :(

Anyway, it's nice to see some new screenshots. :) And I think Elizabeth and the others working on this should check out at least this and the TTLG forum before choosing a winner because someone may just copy an outsider's solution posted on one of these sites. ;)

[2K Elizabeth]

I gues it would cost Take2 more, so it wouldn't worth it for them. :(

Anyway, it's nice to see some new screenshots. :) And I think Elizabeth and the others working on this should check out at least this and the TTLG forum before choosing a winner because someone may just copy an outsider's solution posted on one of these sites. ;)

rules and restrictions for contests outside the US get pretty tricky pretty fast, and as for the answers: keep them secret till the winner is announced! email your answer in.

oh, and have fun. :-)

[Necros]

rules and restrictions for contests outside the US get pretty tricky pretty fast, and as for the answers: keep them secret till the winner is announced! email your answer in.
Allright, I shall do that then. :) Any honorary mentions for those who will not win but sent in great solutions? :D
oh, and have fun. :-)
I will! :)

Hmm... Let's see. I walk up to him and try to talk him out of attacking me. Or this wouldn't work? :D

[Newbeing]

Just e-mailed mine in. It is sort of hard to make up a situation without fully knowing the capabilities of the plasmids and the weapons, but it can also free up your imagination as well.

It was certainly an interesting exercise, and I can't wait to see what other people come up with.

[Rapture_Tourist]

Well, usually most contests (in any business) are strictly bound to the laws of the countries, they were made in. Thats why no foreigners are allowed to enter, I guess.

I think costs are not a reason that much. I would pay my shipping costs voluntarily :)

The only hope could be a EU CoR site, but strangely, these community sites are more popular in the US for marketing. Reminds me on the Splinter Cell DA community site......all goodies for the US only, too. Since I have seen no German CoR yet, I doubt that I will ever see one ^^.

[Necros]

Damn, this game looks so cool. :cool:

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/9918/wrenchll5.jpg

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/5792/electroau0.jpg

I'm already working on a few possible ways, though I should be in bed, sleeping by now, it's kinda late here. :D

[Rapture_Tourist]

Lol Necros, lets do our own little private contest for foreigners...but I dont know what kind of prizes I could give away then :D.

Hmm...something underwater related...how about some diving fins from Mares? I still got some in my garage. They are black and look a bit like this one :)

http://www.scubatoys.com/store/le/le_fin_new.jpg

(just kidding *g*)

[Raveness]

My guess is the electricity/water combination is playing a big part in this.

[Xerxes]

My guess is the electricity/water combination is playing a big part in this.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Was it confirmed that water does conduct electricity in Bioshock?

[vrap]

Yep :) as far as puddles go.

[Raveness]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Was it confirmed that water does conduct electricity in Bioshock?
Definitely. In one of the podcasts, the one with Ken Levine, he was talking about the dynamic ways of dealing with an enemy, and luring it into water then electrocuting it was one option.

[v.dog]

Contest is open to legal residents of the 50 U.S. and District of ColumbiaThat is- disapointing. I know there are embargos on to countries that the US opposes, but these aren't missile chips, or containers of uranium - they're t-shirts. It annoys me that in this global internet village there are still gated communites- it goes against everything the internet stands for.
I'm ranting. Sorry.

If it's a cost issue, why not give away Beta test keys ala STALKER? Or at least open it to Australian and New Zealand residents since Irrational has an office in Canberra?

[Necros]

I've sent my solutions and I came up with an idea. I'll post it here too, I don't know when will Elizabeth or someone else see that e-mail, or maybe I'll get an answer sooner here. :) And what do you think here, on the forum?


Could you guys make an other video of the best solution from a foreigner? I think it would be a nice gesture toward those, who can't participate in the contest and the fans would appreciate it. So we could have our own little competition, and honour would be the prize. :)

[jackinthebox]

hmm i'm kind of really disappointed... i spend every free minute at Cult of Rapture/2k Forum and really would like to participate :( i think there are more foreign users in this forum, so it's just... argh whatever :P nice screens though... let's make our own contest^^

[Shake Appeal]

It's a shame, but it's only a t-shirt. I look forward to seeing what people come up with.

[IMBender]

Definitely. In one of the podcasts, the one with Ken Levine, he was talking about the dynamic ways of dealing with an enemy, and luring it into water then electrocuting it was one option.

I think even the Melissa Miller podcast had this. In fact, I remember (don't shoot me, I could be wrong and it may have been Ken) her describing this exact scenario in that podcast, where you use the ElectroBolt plasmid to get someone into the water and then fire it, killing them instantly. One of the two options discussed for the ElectroBolt was a) firing the Bolt directly at the enemy and killing him and b) luring him into the water and then dropping the toaster into the puddle. Best to be standing on dry ground though.

Definitely sucks that the contest isn't open to residents outside the States, but I guess I expected something like this would happen.

[Newbeing]

That is- disapointing. I know there are embargos on to countries that the US opposes, but these aren't missile chips, or containers of uranium - they're t-shirts. It annoys me that in this global internet village there are still gated communites- it goes against everything the internet stands for.
I'm ranting. Sorry.

If it's a cost issue, why not give away Beta test keys ala STALKER? Or at least open it to Australian and New Zealand residents since Irrational has an office in Canberra?

I don't think it is a decision of Irrational, but rather 2K, which I think is situated in the US. Nor is this any type of embargo. Elizabeth has said it has to due with rules being applied to any place outside of the US, which causes some trouble.

[a rabid chicken]

I wish the electro bolt plasmid were a bit more realistic. I find the current way it works completely ludicrous, because water is just a conductor, not an amplifier of some sort. If it kills enemies standing in water it should kill enemies standing on land. The only difference should be in water it hurts everyone else standing in the water because the water conducts the electricity.

[Rapture_Tourist]

I wish the electro bolt plasmid were a bit more realistic. I find the current way it works completely ludicrous, because water is just a conductor, not an amplifier of some sort. If it kills enemies standing in water it should kill enemies standing on land. The only difference should be in water it hurts everyone else standing in the water because the water conducts the electricity.

Well, its works on land as well, I think. But dont forget that too much realism kills fun, though. A normal human being needs to eat and to go to a toilet... and no one adds this to a game like in real life.

[Raveness]

I wish the electro bolt plasmid were a bit more realistic. I find the current way it works completely ludicrous, because water is just a conductor, not an amplifier of some sort. If it kills enemies standing in water it should kill enemies standing on land. The only difference should be in water it hurts everyone else standing in the water because the water conducts the electricity.
You can kill using it in both areas, firing the eletrobolt directly at the enemy or indirectly at the water the enemy is soaked in. The amount of damage dealt is the same. Although I'm not sure how it works with multiple enemies in a pool, they should not all receive a full amount of damage as the electricity would have to disseminate over much more mass.

[FrenchTart]

You can kill using it in both areas, firing the eletrobolt directly at the enemy or indirectly at the water the enemy is soaked in. The amount of damage dealt is the same. Although I'm not sure how it works with multiple enemies in a pool, they should not all receive a full amount of damage as the electricity would have to disseminate over much more mass.

Do you know something we don't? Not meaning to sound rude, but you have stated this as fact....

If there's some reference that I've missed then please ignore me :)

[ahrel]

Would electrocution in such a large body of water actually work? How many volts are shot out? Because in a puddle it can make sense, but in 10 cubic feet of water...the amount of electricity may be negligible to someone inside of it depending on the voltage of course.

E.g. a police officer with a taser could theoretically still shock someone who was barefoot in a puddle of water, but if that puddle turned into a small pool (like was just outside my house last night from the rain and the neighbor down the street not clearing his drain) the charge would dissipate over the ground.

Not to mention if the guy has boots on that don't conduct, it wouldn't work either.

[ffanxii4ever]

Well, its works on land as well, I think. But dont forget that too much realism kills fun, though. A normal human being needs to eat and to go to a toilet... and no one adds this to a game like in real life.
Ever hear of or play a little game called the Sims?

[Necros]

Would electrocution in such a large body of water actually work? How many volts are shot out? Because in a puddle it can make sense, but in 10 cubic feet of water...the amount of electricity may be negligible to someone inside of it depending on the voltage of course.
It worked in Dark Messiah. :D I've killed a huge monster standing in the water by shooting him in the eye/head with only one lightning bolt. :D

[ahrel]

Dark Messiah's Cyclops are easy to kill with one strike, be it blades, an arrow, or lightning (they're resistant to fire). Just have to hit it in the right spot. Now the undead cyc's are a little different :p. But still, that was hitting him, not the water. The water just conducted it in that case. If you hit the water first...(I think I know the spot you're talkin about) I don't think it would do a thing to him. Then again, it was nude, this grenadier isn't ;).

[Raveness]

Dark Messiah is a poor example, I don't think the developers of a game with sword, sorcery & magic concerned themselves with the physics involved in the diffusion of electrical energy over a large volume of water.

The Cyclops encounters in DM were terrible. You could always retreat to an area of complete protection and pick at his eye with the bow no matter how bad your archery skill was.

[Xerxes]

considering it's salty water... i guess it could, in theory, work...

[Adabiviak]

How fun! Submitted. I remember the shock trooper rifle from Opposing Force sure hurt the user if it was fired underwater but didn't seem to faze enemies. I think for the voltage to hurt you, it has to cause a current to go through you somehow. Standing in a puddle with a shot of electricity would raise your voltage, but unless you somehow created the path to ground for this voltage, I don't know if you'd even feel it? When you scuff your feet, you don't feel the voltage buildup (you may notice the effect of the hair standing on end), but when it's turned into a current is when you get the zap.

[jackinthebox]

Would electrocution in such a large body of water actually work? How many volts are shot out? Because in a puddle it can make sense, but in 10 cubic feet of water...the amount of electricity may be negligible to someone inside of it depending on the voltage of course.

i don't think it should be that realistic... i'm sure the water amount isn't going to play a major part in combination with the electro bolt plasmid. sure it isn't realistic you can kill somebody with electricity when he/she/it is standing with shoes in a puddle of water (it worked in splinter cell^^), but it's just a nice gameplay feature...
i'm sure the electro bolt plasmid does the same damage with direct contact or water contact, but it's just easier to kill the enemy in combination with water (you don't have to aim for the enemy, but just for the water --> the area is bigger)

[a rabid chicken]

Raveness, it has been announced that when the Splicer is standing on land it only stuns him and when he is in the water it kills him. This is my problem. It's about realism within the game world. There are certain things we assume are true and it bothers us when they're not, unless there's an ingame explanation. Wouldn't you think it were strange if, for example, glasses of vodka fell slower and bounced higher than any other object? It's just a random change that doesn't quite fit with our conception of reality and isn't explained by the game but instinctively seems a bit off to us. Just as changing the laws of physics arbitrarily bothers me, changing the laws of electricity (this is probably a subset of the laws of physics, so my apologies) bothers me. That is all. It's not big deal, it's just a bit odd to me.

[ahrel]

a Rabid Chicken, think about this: you could stick a fork in a toaster and you probably won't die (don't test this :p, most of the time people don't die, and if your heart stops, it can be defiblirated) -- but dump that same toaster into the bathtub while you're in it and you'll electrocute yourself to death, cooked no hope of recovery. Water is a conductor, that will make the same voltage of electricity deadly. An electrician would much rather be electrocuted while dry than electrocuted while wet.

But by the same token, if you dropped a toaster into a swimming pool, you might not even feel the shock though you'll probaly feel a small amp pulse through your body...a tingle.

So it's kinda of realistic the way they have it. But that's why I was asking about the volume of water where the guy was standing in. Proximity would make a difference too, but not much.

[Adabiviak]

Dude - the protagonist is shooting a bolt of electricity out of his hand after a quick shot of some magix elixir. Maybe some of the properties that allows this to happen give it the qualities that it's extra lethal when it hits water? The fantastic license you're allowing for the electro-bolt plasmid surely supersedes the license needed to believe that it's more dangerous around water.

[Rapture_Tourist]

Well, the solution video for the contest was nice, but a bit too short/quick :).

[vrap]

Agreed. I think what v.dog said in the other thread was a good idea, ie. that the scenarios should be a little more broad so that we can craft more interesting solutions.

[LastGiantRobot]

I do not mean to be disrespectful to the Bioshock team or to the contest winner but the winning submission seemed short on creativity. The solution given seemed to be just "hit with wrench"...alot but the actual video was just tossing gernades back. The "just" of my words gloss over the far greater freedom granted in Bioshock to players then is granted in other games however I believe that the Bioshock engine is far more capable then what was shown. The other submissions listed below the winning solution seemed to entail alot more interaction with the enviroment and usage of all the plasmids available. It seemed that using the gernades to "herd" the doctor into the water and then electroshocking him would have been more creative outcome which was the operative word of the contest I believe. Can I ask what was the determining factor as to that particular solution being chosen?

[2K Elizabeth]

Hey LGR --When deciding this winner, I picked also considering the most useful way to utilize supplies. We know that in Rapture you can sometimes be short on supplies and must use them as wisely as possible. This was a good submission because you can use the wrench for an unlimited amount of time (if you are wily enough to hit him without taking damage yourself) and using telekinesis is both a defensive and an offensive measure in avoiding bombs plus taking down your opponent. Using just electro bolt would merely be offensive and while "cool" not, in my opinion of this scenario, the most efficient way to deal with the problem while keeping as many resources as possible for future challenges.

Hopefully that clears things up! Please feel free to suggest future contests, too!

I do not mean to be disrespectful to the Bioshock team or to the contest winner but the winning submission seemed short on creativity. The solution given seemed to be just "hit with wrench"...alot but the actual video was just tossing gernades back. The "just" of my words gloss over the far greater freedom granted in Bioshock to players then is granted in other games however I believe that the Bioshock engine is far more capable then what was shown. The other submissions listed below the winning solution seemed to entail alot more interaction with the enviroment and usage of all the plasmids available. It seemed that using the gernades to "herd" the doctor into the water and then electroshocking him would have been more creative outcome which was the operative word of the contest I believe. Can I ask what was the determining factor as to that particular solution being chosen?

[LastGiantRobot]

Thank you for responding promptly to my question. As for an idea for a possible future contest my idea is to post another screenshot contest that revolves around a moral dilemma instead of a tactical one. The Little Sister problem is an obvious one with the temptation of resources at the expense of killing a child but I believe there are more subtle problems that the City of Rapture will present. For example what would the player do if a citizen of Rapture, one who was still coherent and pleading for help, was trapped under debris and suffering from severe trauma? The situation is complicated though by the power trunk that runs through the debris and will be cut if moved, taking power away from a small section of Rapture. The lights would dim and flicker, the pumps would stop their ever-present hum and the sea would reclaim a level and drown the other insane Rapture citizens inhabiting that area. What would a player do? Sacrifice the one Raptureite he has meet who is not trying to kill him for the lives of many hostile and insane Raptureites or damn the fallen Raptureites in order to help a presumably innocent person in Rapture? Or could the player find a non-dichotomous solution, like rerouting power or some how evacuating the section in question?

[a rabid chicken]

I'm sorry LGS, but I just don't think that's a good idea at all. How can you have a contest centered around a moral choice? Simply makes no sense. The whole point of a moral choice is that there is no "best" choice necessarily, so a contest would not work and grading would be based on the moral opinions of the judges. I'm sorry for being so harsh, but to me that idea makes absolutely no sense.

[LastGiantRobot]

It was my mistake not to elaborate upon the idea but I would assume that it could be graded on creativity. Taking into account limited resources and varied abilities what could a player do? The point of the contest is not to reach a certain moral outcome but for the morality variable to be a part of the equasion. Success would be judged as to how interesting and out of the box the solution was rather then was the player able to save every one out of enlightened humanity, or did he give into a Nietzschian will to power and exploit both endangered parties some how. Think of the contest more as an artistic venue, the style of the act over the function of it, the journey instead of the destination.

[a rabid chicken]

I understand now LGS. Sorry my first comment was so harsh, but the way I understood it was that it would be purely a moral choice, not a problem-solving situation with a moral element. That makes MUCH more sense. Sorry for my initial response.

[Hatesink]

I think it's a great idea, really excellent (I think it's an idea that may very well come into it's own when the game's released, since we'll know a lot more about the possible scenarios and should hopefully be able to talk about possible approaches etc.), but at the moment it's probably not that great for 2K'Beth, since I think she's looking for ways to cut down the response she's getting (or at least the attention she has to pay to the response).

My idea was maybe a kind of competition similar to a 'spot the ball' competition, where you have to locate the position of some such thing in a photo of Rapture, based on the potential interactions suggested by the photo.

E.g. name the projectile and location of guess in the subject line and draw a circle (maybe using paint, or maybe using a tool embedded in the web-page) where you think the item might be: e.g. "plasma bolt, top right,". That way the potential answers could be searchable using the search function and quickly viewing a bunch of images. Grid references could even be used to narrow the field, with just the single square pertaining to the grid reference needing to be marked. They could click through to the grid square by clicking on the picture, mark the picture and submit it. It might take some time to set up the system, but it could be easier in the long term (or maybe not :p). That way you could probably still show a video for each answer also.

The only problem with it might be bandwidth and the possible flooding it might cause, and it might be too much of a hassle to set up to offset the hassles of the screenshot scenario competition, but maybe there's some way around it.