Why DX10? [Archive]

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vahid

05-08-2007, 12:27 AM

it is absolutely ridiculous that they added DX10 support too. it is unfair for the other DX9 users to get the same price for buying the game.

They should sell in a cheaper price for users with DX9 hardware and more expensive for DX10 users.

Personally myself I just hate DX10 and i wish it wont be ever successful.
its silly to buy additional DX10 hardware and plus vista so you can just play DX10 games.

its like saying "Getting gullible people to pay me $500 for just mostly snake oil"

Freddo

05-08-2007, 12:35 AM

The only thing DX10 Bioshock got over DX9 Bioshock is some water effects. Hardly important. It's not something I will get DX10 for now, but rather something I will experience when I replay the game for the 5th time in 2010 or so.

I guess you dislike how Half-Life 2 support DX7, DX8 and DX9 too? And how Thief runs in software or in DX6? Or how Morrowind runs in DX7 or DX8? Or how, well, you get the point.

Jeff

05-08-2007, 12:57 AM

Durrrrrrrrrrr, Welcome to PC gaming?

MF9000

05-08-2007, 01:32 AM

You might as well complain how we went from word processors to computers that do word processing and more. My first computer-like device that I purchased was a dedicated Brother word processor that took 3.5 inch floppies for saving purposes only. The operating system was chip based. When computers became affordable to the general public I jumped at the chance to get one. Technology marches on. Besides, wait long enough and the DX10 cards will come down in price. Besides with Bioshock it is not a necessity to have a DX10 card. Irrational made the wise choice of making sure we would have DX9 support. Just like they were wise not to make the game Vista and XBox only. You'll be glad for the DX10 support when you upgrade.

vahid

05-08-2007, 02:14 AM

Why Nvidia and ATI just dont hand out free DX10 hardware?

They make enough money. They should be kind enough to just hand out free GPUs once in a year at least.

Freddo

05-08-2007, 02:22 AM

Why Nvidia and ATI just dont hand out free DX10 hardware?
Because they are companies, and the main goal for the vast majority of companies out there are to make a profit.

They make enough money.
No, they don't. The financial status of AMD/ATI is rather weak at the moment.

They should be kind enough to just hand out free GPUs once in a year at least.
I'm pretty sure they hand out free cards now and then. The chance that you and me would be the ones who recived them is, however, extremly slim.

vahid

05-08-2007, 02:45 AM

I will only get a DX10 card when it goes down to what its actually worth like $5.

sajuuk

05-08-2007, 02:54 AM

The only thing DX10 Bioshock got over DX9 Bioshock is some water effects. Hardly important. It's not something I will get DX10 for now, but rather something I will experience when I replay the game for the 5th time in 2010 or so.

The odd thing is according to the interview, the developer said the water will look the same on both 360 and PC.
And does 360 have DX10?

I kinda agree with the topic creator.
DX10 has somehow become the dev's commercial **** these days, as the fact that most of their games they claimed to be DX10 are not truely DX10.
Those games are simply multi-platform titles with DX10 patch for slight graphical updates. Take a look at Halo2 Vista.

If you want "Real" DX10 games, check out Crysis and World In Conflict, these titles are exclusively made for PC and DX10.;)

v.dog

05-08-2007, 04:52 AM

it is absolutely ridiculous that they added DX10 support too. it is unfair for the other DX9 users to get the same price for buying the game.Why?They should sell in a cheaper price for users with DX9 hardware and more expensive for DX10 users.Again, why? There's no rationale to your statments.Personally myself I just hate DX10 and i wish it wont be ever successful.See my previous statement.its silly to buy additional DX10 hardware and plus vista so you can just play DX10 games.Hold the phone. Let's clarify a few things: Technology is not static. Things advance; old technology becomes obsolete as better technology replaces it. If it didn't we'd all still be playing Pong (if that) on computers that that use valves, are as big as a house, and consume as much power as a small city.

I don't know if you remember when the hardware graphics accelerators first came on the market. They used to be optional, now you can't and wouldn't want to play without one.

The technology is optional. You do not have to have the latest hardware. While you will get a better experience on Vista with a DX10 GPU, on XP under DX9 the game still looks fantastic.

Again, look at the first generation of graphics cards. If you bought one, games like HL looked great, but it you ran in software mode, it wasn't bad either.

The game needn't cost more to impliment both DX9 and 10. If they develop with DX10 in mind, and then scale it back to DX9, the overhead cost is minimal. It's not like they built the DX9 version and then built a DX10 version as well.I'm having to buy a whole new rig this year. I'm looking to spend about about $NZ2000. I could ballyhoo about how it's not fair that developers aren't making games for my machine any more, but instead, I see the leaps and bound they are making in terms of AI, physics, and graphics, and I want to be part of that.

Games are more bigger, more immersive, more interactive, and more fun than ever, but it takes more powerful hardware to get there. This is the price you pay as a gamer, whether it be PC or console.

Thogec

05-08-2007, 05:25 AM

I fully agree with the last poster. If you aren't willing to get the hardware upgrade for DX10, don't complain that devs are designing with it in mind. shoot, in about 2-4 years, DX10 will be in everything and you'll just be complaining about the next gen games comming out for DX11 or higher. I've purchased several games in the last two years and had to install everything from DX6 on up through 10, and am not complaining in the slightest. My experience within the games themselves I find to be more fulfilling and enjoyable, so I'll throw out the $200 on a DX10 card, with upper specs for this week and not complain. I also won't worry about my next upgrade for another 3+ years, unless GCs advance so much that my system won't run the internet anymore.

sigh, the price we pay for a money sink, and escape from reality.
You know what they say, if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

/rantoff

vahid

05-08-2007, 05:35 AM

we really dont need too advanced technology at the moment. As we have to pay for them. if the new technology is free of charge then i wouldnt be worried about it. DX10 is too advanced now. therefore it is not necessary.

we have to understand and say NO to Nvidia and ATI when they keep on going and going to make more expensive and advanced GPUs. They have to show us how generous they are by giving us free GPUs every now and then.

Giftmacher

05-08-2007, 05:52 AM

Don't feed it people... :rolleyes:

Gift.

Laser Eyes

05-08-2007, 06:52 AM

If you want "Real" DX10 games, check out Crysis and World In Conflict, these titles are exclusively made for PC and DX10.;)

That's not what the devs of either Crysis or World in Conflict are saying. These are two games I'm looking forward to and I've been reading the public comments of the developers of both these games and their message is basically that these games will provide a great experience on either DX9 or DX10. They certainly do not say that the games are made exclusively or even particularly for DX10.

Nihil

05-08-2007, 07:14 AM

*dances* i love my console it' so simple and kicks butt... but yeah i know so many people complaining about dx10 coming out and nothing but the newest hardware and such will support it but as one said before i should of quoted it but i'll do it manually "duuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr..... welcome to pc gaming"

Bartekk

05-08-2007, 07:37 AM

vahid
Ha! Get used to it or leave for consoles. You can hate dx10, you can make petitions, you can complain about it but there's nothing you can do to stop the rush for newer and newer tech.

But as for dx10, I agree with John Carmack. Currently it's just a marketing method to make you buy Vista. It'll take some time before it becomes necessary.

MF9000

05-08-2007, 10:53 AM

Does anybody else smell troll other than Gift and myself. :D

Morovir

05-08-2007, 11:02 AM

Does anybody else smell troll other than Gift and myself. :D

Oh no, the stench of troll is heavy in this thread. Sheesh - I can't believe so many people are throwing bread crumbs at it.

BTW - be glad this game is coming out when it is. In a few years, games will probably be DX10 only, or have limited DX9 support. What sucks is that you will have to upgrade to Vista, but maybe MS will have fixed the crappy framerate problem by then...

Morovir

05-08-2007, 11:07 AM

vahid
But as for dx10, I agree with John Carmack. Currently it's just a marketing method to make you buy Vista. It'll take some time before it becomes necessary.

Several things can be true at once. Yes, MS is playing up DX10 to sell Vista, because right now thats about the only thing that would make anyone actually WANT to upgrade. (Aero is nice for like 5-10 minutes, and then you go back to work)

However, I've read quite a bit that seems to indicate that DX10 really does take advantage of new features of the OS.
Unfortunately, whatever they did to make DX10 run well has caused DX9 to slow down. A lot of DX9 games are running more slowly than on XP.

This would almost make a conspiracy theory, except that people are going to grade Vista based on how well it plays their existing games.

Bioshock_FTW!

05-08-2007, 11:08 AM

lulz @ troll

if you don't like DX10, don't ****ing post about it. You're just starting a flame war that's gonna result in you getting pissed off and never coming back. If that's how you like it, I have no problem indulging your bully nature.
Most of us here are very supportive of new technologies and graphics no system of yours will ever be able to handle; if you can't deal with being left in the digital dust, don't jump in just to try to rattle us. It doesn't matter to any of us whether or not you'll be able to see the slightly upgraded graphics and physics improvements.

EDIT:
Also - see these threads for more constructive talk of DX10 and actual opinions.
http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73&highlight=directx
http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=359&highlight=DX10

Freddo

05-08-2007, 12:59 PM

However, I've read quite a bit that seems to indicate that DX10 really does take advantage of new features of the OS.
Unfortunately, whatever they did to make DX10 run well has caused DX9 to slow down. A lot of DX9 games are running more slowly than on XP.

That's mainly because of immature graphic card drivers, and that the new OS is more RAM hungry than the previous one. Same thing happened between Windows 98 and Windows XP, and same thing will happen with future Windowses. It took about a year before XP came up in the same levels as 98 regarding framerates, 3DMark01 scores and all that, and I expect it to be similiar with Vista.

DX10 is the only reason for me to get Vista, and I don't see it happening anytime soon. When I feel it's time to completely rebuild my comp from scratch and get a new OS, it's likely the "sequel" of Vista is out on the market. Maybe even DX11 :p

Bioshock_FTW!

05-08-2007, 01:12 PM

This is true.

I have a dual-boot of XP and Vista and I barely touch Vista at all due to the "immature" drivers. It's definitely getting better and with the recent nVidia driver builds for the 8800's, everything looking good again.
I don't see myself using Vista any time soon, if only for DX10 support...since the only DX10 content out there is that tech demo that really isn't all that impressive...but still pretty cool.
I will actually purchase Vista two weeks before BioShock is released and completely swap out XP for it because I feel it will be ready by then. There will be updates to the Windows framework as well as to the drivers.
Don't hate on DX10/Vista unless you've actually dealt with it, don't go by what you've heard.

Fennerman

05-08-2007, 01:38 PM

Bioshock_FTW!

05-08-2007, 02:22 PM

Yes yes this is all covered in the two existing DX10 threads, see previous post for links.

Freddo

05-08-2007, 02:48 PM

I have some nice news... don't know if you people are aware but I read at Techpowerup.com (http://www.techpowerup.com/archive.php?29901) that someone was making directx10 available for WinXP, which means we won't really need Vista for playing directx10 games... just a 10000$ card xD! naa... the 8600 series look good and not expensive.
I read that awhile ago and I don't think they will ever finish it. It's a stunt to get money. If you get to their official site you have to "donate" $50 USD to see any kind of info, and their beta program so far only works with Prey, an OpenGL game that doesn't use DX10 (or Direct3D at all for that matter). So in my eyes, it's a joke, vaporware and a scam.

And if they for some reason managed to do it, it won't happen anytime soon, but plenty years into the future, and by then DX10 is old news and even the cheapest cards on the market will have support for it, and Vista (or newer Windows) will be the norm as XP is now.

Wine and TransGaming Technologies have a much higher chance of succeeding with this, doing their DX -> OpenGL wrapper as they have done for years, and even then it will take plenty of years before DX10 support is done.

v.dog

05-08-2007, 07:54 PM

But as for dx10, I agree with John Carmack. Currently it's just a marketing method to make you buy Vista. It'll take some time before it becomes necessary.Several things can be true at once. Yes, MS is playing up DX10 to sell Vista, because right now thats about the only thing that would make anyone actually WANT to upgrade.

...except people are going to grade Vista based on how well it plays their existing games.My thoughts exactly.

Pinky_Powers

05-10-2007, 02:31 AM

Is there some kind of award we can give to vahid for being the most ridiculous human alive?

I almost spit beer out of my nose when reading this thread. I am certain God is remorseful enough already, but he should really remove such failures as this from the face of the Earth.

ArmedandDangerous

05-10-2007, 04:18 AM

The thing is,the way DX10 accesses core files is completely different from how it happens in XP and DX9. They're gonna have to revamp the WHOLE XP for it to work. Might as well just get Vista. At least that's officially supported xD

borgdrone89

05-10-2007, 06:52 AM

in answer to the OP's topic title:

WHY NOT eh?

sajuuk

05-10-2007, 05:55 PM

I understand how the topic creator feel.
To upgrade to DX10 you update your rig in both hardware and software perspectives. Which is gonna cost a lot!

PC gamers is going to get screwed if they discovered that the DX10 graphics aren't any better than the 360 graphics.:mad:

v.dog

05-10-2007, 08:25 PM

ArmedandDangerous

05-10-2007, 11:10 PM

Vahid,you're stupid.

Exactly. You want to stay in pc gaming,you have to sacrifice a little. Remember,you guys are all earning is US$. I'm earning in Malaysian Ringgit. You need $200 for a DX10 card,and that's like how many % of you total salary? Probably 10% or less? Guess what? It's 200% of my salary a month and I'm still staying on the PC gaming wagon. I love the level of control the pc gives me,you should too if you wanna stay on. Can't swallow the price? Then leave for console land then. No-ones stopping you. We don't need people like you in the world,complaining about everything just because you're a ****in cheapskate. Go away.

Pinky_Powers

05-10-2007, 11:15 PM

No, actually. My PC isn't just a games rig; it also runs Photoshop, Hammer, Maya PLE, Premier, gets HD videos off the net... Spending $500 of a graphics card and having it no better than a 360 dosn't bother me, because I don't just play games.

Let us not forget, also, that these cards are simply better and faster in every way from their predecessors. Running DX9 games, the 8800s out perform every other card on the market, and the 8600s out-run the 7600s. You spent the money because they are better, not just because they are DX10 capable.

But, of course, they are D3DX certified, so there is also that. ;)

v.dog

05-11-2007, 06:45 AM

Exactly. :)

Bioshock_FTW!

05-11-2007, 09:28 AM

the 8800s out perform every other card on the market, a

In most cases, they out perform 2 in SLI of every other card on the market too ;)

Bioshock_FTW!

05-11-2007, 09:29 AM

the 8800s out perform every other card on the market, a

In most cases, they out perform 2 in SLI of every other card on the market too ;)

Edit: Oops. Posted twice by mistake.

jovialjester

05-11-2007, 02:22 PM

I just bought a new rig w/ the 8800 in it....and its very nice to say the least. I bought it for DX10 capability, but like stated before it also out performs other cards.

Also:

Not to jump to vahid's defense, because I whole heartedly disagree with what he says or thinks, but to those who are calling him stupid and what not....while he might be, and his views are different...this is a forum, and forums tend to bring out the less than intelligent people. By reacting so quickly to putting him down your just fueling him to repost with more non-sensical replies. Just my two cents *shrugs*

MF9000

05-11-2007, 02:35 PM

I certainly hope ATI will get there stuff together and put out their DX10 card soon. I usually go with ATI, but I've got nothing against Nvidia's offerings. I'm hoping with the release of ATI's DX10 card we'll see a pricing war that will benefit us by lowering the prices. Even with Bioshock I don't feel compelled at the moment to switch over to Vista to get DX10. But to those who have made the switch, lets us know how it's going. :)

jackinthebox

05-11-2007, 03:23 PM