Do you have it in you?

[Big_Daddy]

To kill the Innocent Little sisters? I myself dont, For one I feel awkward killing kids, And second I dont want the Big daddies coming after to me, What about you?

[Da Bubs]

yes, what else would I use a pipe wrench for? Plumbing? I think not. shouldnt this be a poll?

[piet11111]

ofcourse i am capable of clubbing the little sisters.
im the one that asked for cannibalism :cool:

[Bartekk]

I don't know, it's a game. But I'll consider this as a success at IG side if I am going to feel guilty after doing so in BioShock.

[Necros]

To kill the Innocent Little sisters? I myself dont, For one I feel awkward killing kids, And second I dont want the Big daddies coming after to me, What about you?
They are annoying, so... http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/150/a116zh4.gif http://forum.hwsw.hu/html/emoticons/gonosz.gif Just kidding. http://forum.hwsw.hu/html/emoticons/d3.gif

Actually it will depend on the situation.

[Rapture_Tourist]

Nope, I was always the good guy in Black&White (with a nice shiny cow ^^) and I was only evil in Dungeon Keeper.....so, I think I will try to be a nice tourist in Rapture.

[jackinthebox]

ofcourse i am capable of clubbing the little sisters.
im the one that asked for cannibalism :cool:

that's a good one :D
i'm always a kind of "friendly" player in games... but i'm going to turn evil when i replay BioShock^^

[Bartekk]

I think that what makes BioShock interesting is that, unlike in say Deus Ex, where you could go around stunning opponents instead of blasting them all and you could be peacekeeper instead of a badass killing machine, you know, a clear good path or a clear bad path, in Rapture you will be forced to do things you don't want to. There's no Good versus Evil. It's all about surviving. I've always seen it like: "Yeah, you can be a good guy in BioShock, but how long will you manage to survive that way...?" It's about messing with your morality, you know: "You have no ammo, no Adam, no nothing. This next section may contain some resources but what if there's an enemy out there? Will you take a risk or maybe... look, Big Daddy is fighting with a Splicer nearby, he's completly distracted and Little Sister is so defenseless... Would you?"

[Newbeing]

I think the interesting thought is, are you maliciously killing these little girls, or are you putting them out of their misery?

From what I saw in the developers walkthrough, the Little sisters look and sound rather sickly with those flemmy little kid coughs *shiver*. They also live in damp tunnels and collect Adam from dead people by ingesting their blood. That sadly seems to be their lives and only purpose for creation.
Whether that justifies your decision or not, it is something to certainly think about.
Though Personally, I'm going to do everything I can to avoid killing any of them.

[Necros]

that's a good one :D
i'm always a kind of "friendly" player in games... but i'm going to turn evil when i replay BioShock^^
I'm usually like that too. :) Though every now and then it's good to explore the dark side. :D

[One0Shot]

Well they are evil so why not?

[jackinthebox]

Well they are evil so why not?

i don't think they are evil, it's just their destiny...

[Necros]

That's right. The Little Sisters, the Big Daddys and the Splicers are just victims of the plasmids. They are only trying to survive. That Ryan guy is the evil one, I think.

[Da Bubs]

That's right. The Little Sisters, the Big Daddys and the Splicers are just victims of the plasmids. They are only trying to survive. That Ryan guy is the evil one, I think.

I dont think he is evil, just crazy. The player may have just got there but Ryan was there for 10 years

[Adabiviak]

I don't even get the impression that the Little Sisters or Big Daddies are unhappy with their situations. The Big Daddies (if I've my facts straight) don't think much outside of protecting the Little Sisters and the Little Sisters I've seen in videos seem as emotionally accurate for a happy, what, 6, 7 year old? I don't think I do. If the graphics/sounds don't accurately convey the brutal killing of a young girl, then maybe, but if the visual/audio of that works like it should, no way.

[One0Shot]

That's right. The Little Sisters, the Big Daddys and the Splicers are just victims of the plasmids. They are only trying to survive. That Ryan guy is the evil one, I think.

So are the demons in doom.

[the_bUg]

Do I have it in me? I can say flat out that I do not. I intend to do as little harm as possible in the world of rapture as I view all it's residents as victims. Perhap victims of their own foolishnes, vanity and greed but victims nonetheless. Of course I realize that it will be impossible to entirely avoid conflict but I would prefer to carry as much of my real world sensitivities into the experience of this game as possible and my realworld sensitivities dictate that these were once humans, and deep down somwhere lost inside still are.

Violence will be a means of self preservation, nothing more and I hope to be impacted enough by the personalities and portrayal of the characters enough that I mourn their loss when they die. (think those mechanical "drone" characters in Thief 2: the metal age, who when you approached quietly from behind could hear their chilling whimpers)

What I find promising, it has been mentioned in interviews that there will be ways to "befriend" or perhaps gain the favour of both the big brother / lil sis dynamic duo, and hopefully this will be a way to experience the game with out having to act reprehensibly.

[Corgano]

Why is the Ryan guy evil? Or any of the other inhabitants for that matter? Are they all victims of some type? Possibly. Did they all bring this upon themselves? Possibly.
Right now, as far as I can tell, all the inhabitants are just trying to survive. And if what I've read/seen is true, there are various ways to 'become' or trick the others into thinking you are one of them. (Whatever type that is)

As far as taking out the little sisters/big daddys, not unless I have to. Because they aren't attacking you on sight like the others in the game. So, if there's no need to fight them, and thery're more neutral, why fight them? There will be plenty of other things it looks like to fight on each and every level.

Also, as far as I've seen, the inhabitents don't set off security cams, but you do. You don't really look that different from a splicer, so I wonder why others don't set them off?

Thanks,
Cor

[piet11111]

for every little sister you dont kill i will kill 3 muahahahaha

[karmeck]

I have been w8ing years to get to kill kids in a game.

[Flash Johnson]

for every little sister you dont kill i will kill 3 muahahahaha

:D i have that shirt


when i start playing this game im not going to try and kill sisters, but i will love this game if it can change my outlook

[ahrel]

This question makes me wonder...is there an option to knock out opponents? I'd much rather get through the game without killing anybody if at all possible (there will always be the few things that you just have to kill). I enjoy doing that in games that have the option to KO instead of Kill.

And I'd very much like to make a run through Rapture without killing a single soul.

[jackinthebox]

Also, as far as I've seen, the inhabitents don't set off security cams, but you do. You don't really look that different from a splicer, so I wonder why others don't set them off?


maybe all the inhabitants are registered in the security system and therefore don't set the alarms off... but your character just came in, so he is an intruder :confused:

[v.dog]

Makes you wonder what they were expecting. Or it could be that Andrew as reprogrammed the system to track you the way Shodan did in SS.

[Corgano]

maybe all the inhabitants are registered in the security system and therefore don't set the alarms off... but your character just came in, so he is an intruder :confused: Could be. But after all the mutations that people have done to themselves, I don't think that's very likely. It would have to be some sort of a system that ID's you when you first enter for it to make sense.

Makes you wonder what they were expecting. Or it could be that Andrew as reprogrammed the system to track you the way Shodan did in SS. Not sure what that means exactly, but I'm thinking that no one has touched the security systems in a while. If everyone is insane and all mutated, who's left to run/repair things? I really do hope that they explain this aspect of it well, because these security systems and traps are through out the entire game...

[v.dog]

I meant that if the security system ignores everybody but intruders, they must have been expecting trouble from an outside source.

I hope there are still off limits areas where splicers who aren't meant to be there are also attacked.

Andrew Ryan is alive and, well, living in Rapture. He will be goading you throughout the game in the same way Shodan did. It's his city, so I imagine he'll have control over the security systems.

[Srezic]

I think it's a great idea for the OPTION to be available to kill and steal Adam from the Little Sisters (or just kill them to kill them).

I have no qualm with this feature in the game. I will probably avoid it due to the Big Brother's wrath, but if I have ot take the little ones out, I will.

I'm tired of game developers not including children for fear that they will get harassed by parent groups. The point is, it's a game. If you're going for an open-ended game, and it has people. I want to see children(unless it's explicitly stated some excuse for why no children are in the game, or they just don't fit). I won't necessarily kill them, but I will defend the ability to do so in case others wish to, or in case I change my mind later.

Anyway, I'm glad Little Sisters are in the game. They add a creepy feeling, and I give props to IG for allowing you to deal with them how you wish.

[a rabid chicken]

Big Daddies, not Big Brothers. It's no big deal, it's just that I want to prevent hordes of people from adopting this incorrect name for our diving-suited friends.

[Srezic]

Thanks chicken, I thought something sounded weird when I was typing it out =P. I knew their name, just a simple mistake =)

[Veritas]

I don't know about you guys, but I'd love to fight the Big Daddies. They look like a fun challenge. I'm the kinda guy who doesn't want to harm children, but want the end fight for it. Maybe I'll walk up to a Big Daddy and poke him with my screwdriver. What harm could that do? :D

But I'm probably going to play through both sides, I mean if you are good you miss half the game, but if you are bad you can't take time to appreciate the scenery as much. Both sides are looking enjoyable.

[ffanxii4ever]

well it has been stated that the Little Sisters have been exploited by everyone, so will you exploit them as well, or will you help them?
If you want their Adam without staining your hands in their blood, you can always kill the Big Daddy and then bribe the Little Sisters with lolipops to get some Adam without exploitation.

[Adabiviak]

Yes! Trick them out of it by pulling a quarter out of their ear. Start bustin' out the little kid magic, then ask to borrow some Adam for a real neat trick. :D

[ComradeP]

Splicers: will die in as many horrible ways as I can think of.

Big Daddies and Little Sisters: will help them at any opportunity and will only "anger" (plasmid ability) a Big Daddy when I know he (it?) can win the fight against the foe I had in mind.

I'll be one of the people that will try to save rather than exploit the inhabitants of Rapture.

Even in Dungeon Keeper, I rarely slapped my demonic minions.

Am I soft? Not really, but I'm just not-evil.

[Necros]

After watching the latest video, it feels even harder to murder a Little Sister.
There's one thing though. Will she attack you with that huge syringe if you get close enough? If she will, then I'll grab that wrench and... :D

[Hatesink]

that's a good one :D
i'm always a kind of "friendly" player in games... but i'm going to turn evil when i replay BioShock^^That's what I always tell myself, but on the second play-through I just loose interest if I have to be bad. Maybe this time I'll play through a second time as a total sociopath.

I think the interesting thought is, are you maliciously killing these little girls, or are you putting them out of their misery? ...

Well they are evil so why not?i don't think they are evil, it's just their destiny...That's right. The Little Sisters, the Big Daddys and the Splicers are just victims of the plasmids. They are only trying to survive. That Ryan guy is the evil one, I think.I don't even get the impression that the Little Sisters or Big Daddies are unhappy with their situations.I don't think the Little Sisters are evil, and I'm not sure about destiny, but I'm sure the Little Sisters probably have just never known any different. The Little Sisters aren't inherently evil; they've just been engineered into something that can be exploited terribly without having had any say in the matter.

That's not to say they should be killed either as a punishment or as a form of euthanasia, especially since the game gives you the choice to save them rather than to exploit them for your own ends (I also heard mention in one of the podcasts that there's a character that'll help you to save them, which means there's probably a sub-plot or story-arc based around doing just that).

Also— I think there's a distinction between the Splicers and the Little Sisters, since it seems to me that the Little Sisters are completely innocent, whereas the Splicers — if they're to be considered victims — are victims of the darker parts of their own nature, our nature— human nature.

Plus— the Little Sisters offer no direct threat, whereas the Splicers are a 'clear and present danger'.

Also, as far as I've seen, the inhabitents don't set off security cams, but you do. You don't really look that different from a splicer, so I wonder why others don't set them off?maybe all the inhabitants are registered in the security system and therefore don't set the alarms off... but your character just came in, so he is an intruder :confused:Could be. But after all the mutations that people have done to themselves, I don't think that's very likely. It would have to be some sort of a system that ID's you when you first enter for it to make sense.The thing is, if it's de rigueur to frequently alter your appearance any effective security system would have to be designed to track changes to the individual, otherwise it just wouldn't work, so it's feasible that Rapture's security system was designed to do just that.


If everyone is insane and all mutated, who's left to run/repair things? I really do hope that they explain this aspect of it well, because these security systems and traps are through out the entire game...I think the Big Daddies are in charge of maintenance, which is why they have drills and rivet guns, and I'm not too sure that they're supposed to be completely human.

After watching the latest video, it feels even harder to murder a Little Sister.
There's one thing though. Will she attack you with that huge syringe if you get close enough? If she will, then I'll grab that wrench and... :DI highly doubt she will, since I don't think they're going to want to give you the excuse to attack her. ;)

[Necros]

I highly doubt she will, since I don't think they're going to want to give you the excuse to attack her. ;)
I guess we'll have to find out about this for ourselves. :) But that big syringe could be used as a weapon. Or maybe the Little Sisters have some kind of secret too. Or maybe I'm just being paranoid. :D

[Xerxes]

After seeing the big daddy video... my first time playing the game I won't be able to kill a Little Sister...

However, how much health will a Little sister have? I can understand she dies from a single round of close range shotgun... But what if (with the dynamic AI), you use aggressor on a splicer, and he shoots a fireball at the Big Daddy and the splash damage kills the little sister :( It would be kindda anticlimactic :D

Ill try my second time around... for the thrill of it!

[Hatesink]

... But what if (with the dynamic AI), you use aggressor on a splicer, and he shoots a fireball at the Big Daddy and the splash damage kills the little sister :( It would be kindda anticlimactic :DIt surprised me that she lived through the fight in the Big Daddy Hunting Video. I thought she'd be killed in the crossfire for sure.

[jackinthebox]

However, how much health will a Little sister have?

good question... but in the newest footage the little sister gets much damage, especially at the end. she is standing closely to the grenade explosion, so i think IG activated god mode or something for her^^

[a rabid chicken]

Raveness, the little sisters are little girls. They are not evil, and that is why it is supposed to create a moral dilemma. The game is asking you if you would kill (or do something else? We don't know yet.) an innocent little girl to help yourself survive.

[Raveness]

Raveness, the little sisters are little girls. They are not evil, and that is why it is supposed to create a moral dilemma. The game is asking you if you would kill (or do something else? We don't know yet.) an innocent little girl to help yourself survive.

I think there is more than meets the eye about the supposed little girls. All I'm saying is that it's best to reserve judgement, be it good or bad, and not base it simply on appearance.

[MidnightMarauder]

I have to admit that I am a big time softy, and it will be hard for me to even do a playthrough of exploiting the citizens of rapture. To compare to some other games with these kind of moral questions Kotor or Jade Empire, I was never able to play the whole game through as 'dark side.' I just find it hard to be a jerk to even video game NPC's (I know I'm a woose). As awesome as this game looks though I think I'll try my best to play through it as many ways as possible (although it definitley won't be easy being evil).

[^ilovebioshock!]

I have been w8ing years to get to kill kids in a game.
sicko:mad:

[Nik]

its only a game and unless theres a consiquence for doing it other then having to deal with the big daddy i would have no problem with it.

[Da Bubs]

The little sisters are pretty mutated, how far can something go an still be considered human? No one has mentioned having a moral problem wasting big daddies, mainly in my opionion because they dont even look remotlely human anymore, assuming they were to begin with.

[a rabid chicken]

Da Bubs, people have mentioned having a moral problem with killing big daddies, and in what way are the little sisters "mutated?" I'm pretty sure they're just little girls who have done no genetic modification.

[Da Bubs]

Da Bubs, people have mentioned having a moral problem with killing big daddies, and in what way are the little sisters "mutated?" I'm pretty sure they're just little girls who have done no genetic modification.

I must have missed the discussion about the big daddies. well they look funky, their eyes are giant. also, I dont think anyone has been doing any reproducing sense the collapse of rapture, ten years before the game begins, yet I would guess that the little sisters are about 8 years old

[a rabid chicken]

My mistake, I think it was at ttlg people were talking about that. Your second comment about age is very good. I never even thought about that. That's very perceptive. I wonder if this will be discussed in the game. My compliments to you for that bit of reasoning!

[Corgano]

I must have missed the discussion about the big daddies. well they look funky, their eyes are giant. also, I dont think anyone has been doing any reproducing sense the collapse of rapture, ten years before the game begins, yet I would guess that the little sisters are about 8 years old Well, there must have been some normal people left because the last things was the New Years Eve party for 1959... Right? Where can you see what a BD looks like inside his suit? I must have missed that.

As far as what role the LS play, I wonder. I wonder if someone is sending them around to collect Adam and using them as some sort of living Adam dispensors... Or something like that.

There was some civil war that occured, and there are still two sides fighting against one another too, yes?

[Da Bubs]

the first sentance has nothing to do with the rest of the post. the rest is about the little sisters. sorry for the confusion.

[Hatesink]

However, how much health will a Little sister have?Even though I'm planning on rescuing them (not killing them) that is a good question. They probably shouldn't have many hit-points, but above all, the damage they take should be region specific, just to preserve the sense of realism.

I have been w8ing years to get to kill kids in a game.sicko:mad:I think there is more than meets the eye about the supposed little girls. All I'm saying is that it's best to reserve judgement, be it good or bad, and not base it simply on appearance.
its only a game and unless theres a consiquence for doing it other then having to deal with the big daddy i would have no problem with it.The little sisters are pretty mutated, how far can something go an still be considered human? It seems that people have already started negotiating what justifications will be acceptable for the killing of the Little Sisters. It's interesting.

Where are you're maternal instinct Raveness? ;) Under what circumstances is it okay to kill a young girl? (I'm guessing your answer is going to be something like "We don't know they're little girls", so is it okay to kill puppies because they're not human?)

"It's only a game" is an easy way of distancing yourself from the whole moral aspect, but it's the moral aspect that makes it so much fun. It adds so much emotional weight to the exercise (if you just choose to kill them, you dispense with that, and the experience won't be as satisfying. It's also more challenging to do the right thing rather than follow the path of least resistance (I've found being bad in games that offer you the choice to be pretty boring— I don't see the point in playing as a bad character. Having the choice to be bad just makes being good that much more enjoyable).

No one has mentioned having a moral problem wasting big daddies, mainly in my opionion because they dont even look remotlely human anymore, assuming they were to begin with.I'm going to be helping the little sisters, so I'm not sure that I'll need to attack a BD, and as for the rest of the population of BioShock, I'd be happy not to have to shoot a single one of them if I didn't have to (and if the gameplay was designed so that that could be a rewarding option (e.g. stealth etc.)).

[Raveness]

The main question is pointless to me anyhow. I'm going to play the game more than once, possily many times, and one of the variations of the way I play in successive playthroughs will be if I kill any LS's or not.

Although I may end up actually upset a little about the playthrough when I kill LS, and if Irrational knows how to employ great cinematic drama then I may stop playing altogether. I'm not a heartless *****, my nieces can attest to that; they love me like a grandma ;)

[MacarenaRowBot]

If Adam is the hot commodity it is, giving me access to all sorts of interesting abilities, in the context of the game ... I can see merit in gutting the Little Sisters. Not to say it wont be heart wrenching, I mean just look at the end of the latest video, but in the context of the game .... I really do want those abilities. Its like clubbing seals, sure theyre cute and innocent ... but we need fur coats!

[Hatesink]

I don't want to labor the point, but I'm sure there'll be other (maybe even easier ways) to get Adam. I'm sure fighting Big Daddies and killing Little Sisters won't be the path of least resistance (or at least I hope not).

[Da Bubs]

There was some civil war that occured, and there are still two sides fighting against one another too, yes?

The war is pretty much over by the time you get there, the leader of one of the armys is dead ( not Ryan, some other guy, dont remember his name) basicily it is my understanding that the big daddies and splicers are the reminants of those armys.

[GH Illustrations]

As soon as I come across a LS, I've gotto try it!

[Nik]

Even though I'm planning on rescuing them (not killing them) that is a good question. They probably shouldn't have many hit-points, but above all, the damage they take should be region specific, just to preserve the sense of realism.

It seems that people have already started negotiating what justifications will be acceptable for the killing of the Little Sisters. It's interesting.

Where are you're maternal instinct Raveness? ;) Under what circumstances is it okay to kill a young girl? (I'm guessing your answer is going to be something like "We don't know they're little girls", so is it okay to kill puppies because they're not human?)

"It's only a game" is an easy way of distancing yourself from the whole moral aspect, but it's the moral aspect that makes it so much fun. It adds so much emotional weight to the exercise (if you just choose to kill them, you dispense with that, and the experience won't be as satisfying. It's also more challenging to do the right thing rather than follow the path of least resistance (I've found being bad in games that offer you the choice to be pretty boring— I don't see the point in playing as a bad character. Having the choice to be bad just makes being good that much more enjoyable).

I'm going to be helping the little sisters, so I'm not sure that I'll need to attack a BD, and as for the rest of the population of BioShock, I'd be happy not to have to shoot a single one of them if I didn't have to (and if the gameplay was designed so that that could be a rewarding option (e.g. stealth etc.)).

see i can never really get into the moral value. theres certain things like in the sims 2 i get attached to my ppl and care 4 them and make sure they dont die and have good relationships. in oblvion i had a kid that followed me and he annoyed me so i killed him, didnt care. when i ahve a arhcer i got upset when he died because he was of use.

[Corgano]

The war is pretty much over by the time you get there, the leader of one of the armys is dead ( not Ryan, some other guy, dont remember his name) basicily it is my understanding that the big daddies and splicers are the reminants of those armys. Thanks for the info. *Nods*

[Hatesink]

I guess ultimately you have to do what feels appropriate at the time, considering the resources you have and the situation you're in. I guess if you just took out a little sister for the sake of it it could screw your sense of enjoyment up as much as if you absolutely forced yourself to take drastic action to avoid doing so when doing so would keep you 'in the zone' so to speak. Ultimately I think it's all about keeping your head in the game.

One thing however: with most FPSs if it moves you shoot it— nothing new there. With BioShock you're given the choice to 'protect and serve', which brings something almost totally new to the FPS. If you ignore it you're basically missing out on a whole new aspect. At least that's my take on the situation.

[nmrahde]

Okay so the topic of to kill or not to kill with regards to Little Sisters has been done to death...

What about having a situation where you need to save (if you choose to) Little Sisters from [event and/or critter] but you can't save them all? How do you choose who to save? Whoever happens closest to the exit?

Or situations where you "save" the person only to have them die (through no fault of your own) by something else...

I love those ambiguous "no win" moral situations (ala "The Cold Equations")

[Hatesink]

Okay so the topic of to kill or not to kill with regards to Little Sisters has been done to death...

What about having a situation where you need to save (if you choose to) Little Sisters from [event and/or critter] but you can't save them all? How do you choose who to save? Whoever happens closest to the exit?

Or situations where you "save" the person only to have them die (through no fault of your own) by something else...

I love those ambiguous "no win" moral situations (ala "The Cold Equations")I fight to the death to protect all of them.

[Raveness]

Okay so the topic of to kill or not to kill with regards to Little Sisters has been done to death...

What about having a situation where you need to save (if you choose to) Little Sisters from [event and/or critter] but you can't save them all? How do you choose who to save? Whoever happens closest to the exit?

Or situations where you "save" the person only to have them die (through no fault of your own) by something else...

I love those ambiguous "no win" moral situations (ala "The Cold Equations")

The problem with this in a game environment is if there is an inclusion of a primary objective among the group. People's minds will shut off the moral dilemma when the gamey situation of saving a primary NPC comes to the forefront.

If all things are equal, first I would prioritize the children, then whoever happens to be closest to the exit (women don't get a pass over men, billions of people means there's been enough baby ovens), and possibly any old or injured folks will be passed by for the next in line; essential a Utilitarian approach after that, taking the most needed vocations from the rest.

If you refer to which Little Sisters out of a bunch of them, I don't think we are going to be privy to a soap opera level of interaction into the personalities of each. I think they will have all the same AI persona, therefore making the question moot.

[Jeff]

I plan to kill pretty much everything I can. If an opportunity to take down a big daddy should present itself early in the game and I feel it's a plausible situation, then hell yes I'll take that bastid down, then hunt out his cohort and off her too.

Eventually I probably will play through with a more heroic role, but as I see it, I'm not there to be the savior of rapture, I'm there trying to find a way to get the fudge out and if any of these mutants and freaks get in my way they'll become targets pretty quick.

Also I'm interested in finding crazy ways to kill people... I'd love to be able to dump buckets of oil in one of the area's the little sisters live in, then set it alight and pick her off with the pistol as she runs around, lit on fire, screaming.

Second play-through will be the more serious play-through where I try not to use plasmids and play the "hero" role.

[BioShockWins]

yeah, I don't think I will be able to do it...

[Jeff]

Kill Kill Hate Hate Murder Murder Mutilate!

:(

[nmrahde]

I would probably save whichever ones had the most Adam on them myself...then take it.

Hrmm...does anybody remember if there was going to be any sort of faction dispositions (Id assume not...). IE the more LSs you save the more Big Daddys like you, or if you kill too many LSs the Big Daddys recognize you as a threat (possibly to the point where they proactively send one to stalk you).

Doesn't quite fit the small scale of Rapture (Raveness pointed out on a different post that you'll prolly only be down there a few days) but I dunno, I like it...

[borgdrone89]

yes i would have it in me because this game is there for us to explore the possibilities of exploiting little girls without hurting anyone in real life.

[splicer]

yes i would have it in me because this game is there for us to explore the possibilities of exploiting little girls without hurting anyone in real life.

I think when you see the little sis,you will reconsider,how can you kill something so seemingly alive,and happy?,i dont care if its a game or not,the concept just freaks me out.Of course there will be occassions in the game where a little sis will perish(like in the demo)during combat,at which point she can be harvested for adam,but theres no way I'm lifting a finger against one.

[nmrahde]

how can you kill something so seemingly alive,and happy?

You should see some of the playthroughs I've done for Fallout 2, KotoR 1 & 2 (Did you know you can get 100% Dark Side before leaving the space station in 2?:eek: ), RoTK, and most recently Jade Empire... Some of those games allow for some pretty bonechilling stuff you can do...:)

Edit: I don't always play the source of all evil but 1) It gets pretty tiring always having to stop the evil tyrant, sometimes it's more fun to be that tyrant. 2) Sometimes it's fun to be more evil than the tyrant you're trying to stop? It makes their "I am evil and fearsome" speeches really amusing. :)

[Alucard]

yes, what else would I use a pipe wrench for? Plumbing? I think not. shouldnt this be a poll?

my father mario was a plumber and that's exactly what he used against my sister so im terrified of pipes.:(

[WakeUpInFlames]

Oh yea, and as sick as it sounds, I can't wait to do it. :)

[Club Heaven]

yes i would have it in me because this game is there for us to explore the possibilities of exploiting little girls without hurting anyone in real life.

This guy has the right idea. Payback time for all the girls who broke my heart in kindergarten :mad:

[jovialjester]

I for one will have no problem in thinking of new and fun ways to demolish the big daddy's and the little sisters. Who knows..maybe lure the LS into the water w/ a teddy bear and frying her? Of course i'll play back thru and be the good guy that doesn't harm any of them, or at least try not to. The way i figure it is that it is after all just a game. In RL there would be no way i could do such a horrific thing as hurt a child.

[borgdrone89]

This guy has the right idea. Payback time for all the girls who broke my heart in kindergarten :mad:

yeah... so true:rolleyes:

[borgdrone89]

my father mario was a plumber and that's exactly what he used against my sister so im terrified of pipes.:(

does anyone else here sense the reference to a certain nintendo franchise?

[Hatesink]

does anyone else here sense the reference to a certain nintendo franchise?Very surreal— I could almost believe it was true. ;)

[TheBlackPigeon]

Good to see this thread wasn't acutally a Gatorade advertisement.:p

In regards to my foot and a Little Sister's face getting together for a hot night on the town: It depends. I'm going to be fighting for survival out there. Sometimes, that means doing things you're not proud of. If that means cappin' a Little Sister....then a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.

At least she will have died for a good cause: Keeping the Pige' alive. ;)

[Pinky_Powers]

I can vividly see, in my mind’s eye, the happenstance pushing me to murder, in the coldest fashion, one of these young harvesters.

I can imagine there will be a number of instances where my resources will be nearly, or perhaps even fully, depleted and a great challenge lies just ahead. Having no Adam to buy more bullets or disarm the security systems, and knowing well that I need to accomplish one or the other if I am to survive five more minutes.

Then I hear that fell-child hopping along the echoing corridors with her monstrous guardian en-tow. And maybe I see an opening, some shadows I could exploit, or maybe I have the one Plasmid that could make this assault possible. Or perhaps there are fifteen different ways I see in this instance that would allow me to do what I need to do.

So, with the Big Daddy fervently preoccupied, I sneak beside this foul creature. But as I approach, she sees me, and gives out a terrified scream, the scream of an innocent, little girl. Suddenly, she no longer seems that broken or that loathsome, and my hand begins to shake. I still need what she carries, so I try and convince myself it is for the best, that she would not want this crude life if her senses were intact.

I cycle through the weapons in my inventory; searching for… the most humane… it has to be done. But as I struggle to decide, I hear her large guardian coming back. I have very little time; he is almost here. He will see me any second.

I panic and immediately stop cycling through my weapons… the wrench is in my hand. That’s not the one I would have picked, I think for a split second about retrieving one of my guns instead, but I can feel the deep vibrations from an angry Mr. Bubbles almost atop me. The panic grows wild and I can feel the Big Daddy grab me and stab me, though he is still a few seconds away. The fear over takes me, and I swing the wrench down upon the little girl. Blood sprays the walls and she screams wildly as her body crumples to the floor. But she is not dead; I see her moving on the ground covered in her own blood. She will die eventually, but not for a while. So I hit her again… and again.

I take her Adam and I run. As I turn the corner and stop to catch my breath, I can hear Mr. Bubbles crying in a great anguish that freely reverberates down every hall for hundreds of yards.

I now have what I need to survive, and maybe I did that little creature a favor… maybe.

I can't wait for this game!

[Mr.Bubbles]

Everyone always talk about killing LS as a nessicity in the low resource enviroment but what about all that energy you used killing the big daddy? They're supposed to be tanks from what ive seen. So it cant be that big of a gain anyway.

[Rapture_Survivalist]

I can vividly see, in my mind’s eye, the happenstance pushing me to murder, in the coldest fashion, one of these young harvesters.

I can imagine there will be a number of instances where my resources will be nearly, or perhaps even fully, depleted and a great challenge lies just ahead. Having no Adam to buy more bullets or disarm the security systems, and knowing well that I need to accomplish one or the other if I am to survive five more minutes.

Then I hear that fell-child hopping along the echoing corridors with her monstrous guardian en-tow. And maybe I see an opening, some shadows I could exploit, or maybe I have the one Plasmid that could make this assault possible. Or perhaps there are fifteen different ways I see in this instance that would allow me to do what I need to do.

So, with the Big Daddy fervently preoccupied, I sneak beside this foul creature. But as I approach, she sees me, and gives out a terrified scream, the scream of an innocent, little girl. Suddenly, she no longer seems that broken or that loathsome, and my hand begins to shake. I still need what she carries, so I try and convince myself it is for the best, that she would not want this crude life if her senses were intact.

I cycle through the weapons in my inventory; searching for… the most humane… it has to be done. But as I struggle to decide, I hear her large guardian coming back. I have very little time; he is almost here. He will see me any second.

I panic and immediately stop cycling through my weapons… the wrench is in my hand. That’s not the one I would have picked, I think for a split second about retrieving one of my guns instead, but I can feel the deep vibrations from an angry Mr. Bubbles almost atop me. The panic grows wild and I can feel the Big Daddy grab me and stab me, though he is still a few seconds away. The fear over takes me, and I swing the wrench down upon the little girl. Blood sprays the walls and she screams wildly as her body crumples to the floor. But she is not dead; I see her moving on the ground covered in her own blood. She will die eventually, but not for a while. So I hit her again… and again.

I take her Adam and I run. As I turn the corner and stop to catch my breath, I can hear Mr. Bubbles crying in a great anguish that freely reverberates down every hall for hundreds of yards.

I now have what I need to survive, and maybe I did that little creature a favor… maybe.

I can't wait for this game!


:eek:

.......................Wow, best (and possibly most disturbing) post i've seen on these boards.......

But yeah, on my first playthrough I will try to not slay any innocent little girls. On my second.... :D ;)

[Pinky_Powers]

Everyone always talk about killing LS as a nessicity in the low resource enviroment but what about all that energy you used killing the big daddy? They're supposed to be tanks from what ive seen. So it cant be that big of a gain anyway.

There are many ways of getting to the Little Sisters without having to kill the Big Daddies.

[Andrew Ryan]

Little Sisters are a means to an end. If they posses something I need for survival, I take it from them. Big Daddies can be fooled or have their attention drawn, leaving the little sister open for the recovering of an Adam.

[SweetTooth]

if it moves it dies is my philosophy hehe :)

[borgdrone89]

nice philosiphy. just so that you know, if you choose to practise this philosiphy in real life, you may want to wear a balaklava. ;)

[Giftmacher]

I'm going to try rescuing the little sisters if I have the option, I can't really hurt little girls even if they are pixels. Having the choice is pretty damn sweet, but I just couldn't.

Gift.

[borgdrone89]

too bad so sad. if the makers didn't want you to explore the possibilities, they wouldnt have let you, IMO

[Giftmacher]

too bad so sad. if the makers didn't want you to explore the possibilities, they wouldnt have let you, IMO

Quite so, but for me the possibility of committing the act is more than enough. Just having temptation thrust upon us is enough for me. Besides I'm pretty sure there are any number of other possibilities I could explore, avoiding harm is likely to be just as varied and fun as causing it.

Gift.

[hamslapper]

The level of realism it would take to have something like that bother me is far greater than anyone would probably ever release to any public consumption and rightly so.... Other than that though, I usually like to go the good guy route the first time around and I also get the impression that helping is more questy and that happens to be one of the reasons I play games.....questyness....delicious mcquesty nuggets, questy shakes, questy fries and other questy related prodicts.

[borgdrone89]

Quite so, but for me the possibility of committing the act is more than enough. Just having temptation thrust upon us is enough for me. Besides I'm pretty sure there are any number of other possibilities I could explore, avoiding harm is likely to be just as varied and fun as causing it.

Gift.

exactly, and in the case of bioshock, the opposite is just as true. do it once, for me?

[Andrew Ryan]

I'll go back and play it as the "good guy" when i replay the game a second time. Of course, we're not sure if there is a "good" way or a "bad" way, it's all based on survival. And that's how i'll play it, to survive, and if that means "taking out" a little sister so that i can survive, so be it. That's not to say my sole goal is to hunt down every little sister i find and killer her to take the adam, i'm just say'n when need be, i'll do it

[nmrahde]

I want a third more 'Machiavellian' option...if Ryan or whoever else can control Little Sister's why can't I?

Saving the citizens? Bah, idealistic nonsense.

Killing the citizens? Such a waste...

Now ruling the citizens? That's where you'll find me every time if I have a say in the matter.

[Pinky_Powers]

I want a third more 'Machiavellian' option...if Ryan or whoever else can control Little Sister's why can't I?

Saving the citizens? Bah, idealistic nonsense.

Killing the citizens? Such a waste...

Now ruling the citizens? That's where you'll find me every time if I have a say in the matter.

Your evil brings great inspiration to my loins.

[borgdrone89]

my loins too!

[Drakenkaizer]

I think that THAT is the question...do you think that killing that innocent girl is going to make you feel good in the long run...maybe they should incorporate it in the game...example...theres a plasmid that you can only get if you kill the little girl or the other way around...if you kill her then on another part where she s supposed to appear and think that you are a Big Daddy she wont be there to help you!

[Giftmacher]

exactly, and in the case of bioshock, the opposite is just as true. do it once, for me?

LOL I'll consider it, but that option will come way down the list. I'd like to see if I can complete the game without using plasmids first, then weapons... etc. etc.

Gift.

[smallsey]

...how do you complete the game without using weapons?

[Giftmacher]

...how do you complete the game without using weapons?

Run and hide a lot? ;) Although what I meant was no conventional weapons, plasmid weapons would be another story.

Gift.

[smallsey]

hahaha running away from stuff the whole game. i like it.

[willerokiller]

I want a third more 'Machiavellian' option...if Ryan or whoever else can control Little Sister's why can't I?

Saving the citizens? Bah, idealistic nonsense.

Killing the citizens? Such a waste...

Now ruling the citizens? That's where you'll find me every time if I have a say in the matter.

Perfect example of what i would do, just like in Deus Ex. But in the matter of killin LS, well i just cant bring myself to kill a child, hell i felt bad when i had to clear out the dark sanctuary on the dark brotherhood quest Clensing in Oblivion.

[w3lcom2rapture]

I want a third more 'Machiavellian' option...if Ryan or whoever else can control Little Sister's why can't I?

Saving the citizens? Bah, idealistic nonsense.

Killing the citizens? Such a waste...

Now ruling the citizens? That's where you'll find me every time if I have a say in the matter.

I love it! The end justifies the means FTW!

[borgdrone89]

I think that THAT is the question...do you think that killing that innocent girl is going to make you feel good in the long run...maybe they should incorporate it in the game...example...theres a plasmid that you can only get if you kill the little girl or the other way around...if you kill her then on another part where she s supposed to appear and think that you are a Big Daddy she wont be there to help you!

nope.. the devs specifically want to give us the choice about how we do things. where is the choice in getting a plasmid if you can only get it by doing a specific thing? besides, the way the AIs work, they roam randomly, they don't go to set places, and wait for you to arrive.

[nmrahde]

At least from earlier vids the Little Sisters have those pipes at home bases so they may roam around but they're at least somewhat territorial...

It's fine to have the Little Sisters have goodies that you can't get elsewhere. If you decide to keep them alive solely because of the swag they have guess what? You've still made a moral choice...only it's one that only you will know about, unless you spill your guts to a Big Daddy. Also means you aren't really much of a hero...:)

[Raveness]

I've wondered about the believability of having Little Sisters cower in a corner during attacks. The Little Sisters have an avenue of escape that they use quite frequently for their inner Rapture travels (the pipe/vent system), so to be believable, the player would definitely have to corner the munchkin and her protector in an out of the way area. Even doing so, you'd figure she'd have the wherewithal to start scrambling back to the last pipe she can remember when you start opening fire at her Big Daddy.

All the video's I've seen show them fumbling around their immediate surroundings like a lost child, sometimes even walking in front of an intense firefight, then going back to fumbling.

[nmrahde]

So you're saying the Little Sisters are actually Newt from Aliens? :D

"They mostly come out at night. Mostly."

Edit: Yeah too few games have truly believable AI when it comes to thins other than attacking a target. Most still have civilians go into 'auto-cower' mode after stumbling into a firefight versus having them think "Oh ****, that's gunfire and I'm squishy - I better not go that way"

I'd like to ultimately see better objection recognition and object permanency among NPCs... As in NPC A is a trained soldier so he knows that you want Gun A versus Gun B; but NPC B is Ted from Accounting and while he knows which tax forms to fire, he does not know which gun to use. The second would come into play as more games have routines for the NPCs (things they do on an hourly or even daily basis), the idea is that NPC B (Ted from Accounting again) is expecting form ABCDEF to be on his desk but you move or destroy it causing him to look for it. Of course this would be more exciting if it was say that hypo that the Little Sisters have that you stole, or just the Little Sister...imagine a Big Daddy searching frantically for his ward and going "I left her right here! Oh I never should have gone to look at shoes. *sobs*"

[Raveness]

That's brings up something else: How often does a Big Daddy check the safety of his Little Sister charge? If Splicers are out to get the munchkins too, I wonder how a Big Daddy decides his defense tactics when faced with the both of us. IIRC he maintains a protective diameter around the Little Sister if more than one threat is in range, and you have to use your wits and some plasmids to lure him out of the circle of safety.

I can imagine some situations where splicers sit back and enjoy the combat between player & Big Daddy, only to make their move to quash the Little Sister and take her Adam whilst we're engaged. That would tick off a lot of players wanting their decision (get the Little Sister by going through the Big Daddy) to yield their expected result, but I'd like to see smart AI like that throw it back in the players face, so that even if you decide to be immoral to get the goods, you can still get screwed out of it by chance. A little kharmatic revenge :cool:

[Pinky_Powers]

so that even if you decide to be immoral to get the goods, you can still get screwed out of it by chance. A little kharmatic revenge :cool:

lol. You say that now, but will the day come for you to curse yourself for spouting such thoughts? :)

[borgdrone89]

i liked those thoughts... it would make the ai smarter if the splicers did that

[Raveness]

lol. You say that now, but will the day come for you to curse yourself for spouting such thoughts? :)
Never. That's what I expect to see if the game does have independant AI. Like I've said before, Raptures citizens should not, and I've heard DO NOT sit in limbo waiting for the player to startup any activity out of them. Having the player's decisions apply to the world around them so cut & dry doesn't appeal to me, I want a living, breathing environment, where I am just another variable jockeying for influence ;)

[LanciePants]

/My Opinion

Little Sisters are children who've been taken advantage of. Stripped of their free will and the purity found in childhood innocence. Their sole purpose in life is literally that of a currency harvester. Someone, some where, decided to turn a child into a perverted coin mint. I'm not sure how much more of an innocent victim you can get. Big daddies have been exploited much in the same manner. I will not under any circumstances destroy these guiltless to further my own gains. Even if I'm relegated to only using the wrench, so be it.

Splicers on the other hand are grown people who’ve made conscience, rationalized decisions. Their series of bad choices has ultimately climaxed with their catastrophic failure as responsible adults. Their lack of humanity is their fault. They’re equally to blame for Rapture's state of disarray. Splicers in my game will be cleansed with extreme prejudice. And woe to the splicer which attempts to abuse a little sister in my presence.

*I suspect some plot twists with the little sisters and the player character. Or maybe a relation to Ryan (cloned daughter?)

*If to further the plot, choice is removed and I'm forced to kill a little sister I will be VERY displeased.

[Giftmacher]

I've wondered about the believability of having Little Sisters cower in a corner during attacks. The Little Sisters have an avenue of escape that they use quite frequently for their inner Rapture travels (the pipe/vent system), so to be believable, the player would definitely have to corner the munchkin and her protector in an out of the way area. Even doing so, you'd figure she'd have the wherewithal to start scrambling back to the last pipe she can remember when you start opening fire at her Big Daddy.

All the video's I've seen show them fumbling around their immediate surroundings like a lost child, sometimes even walking in front of an intense firefight, then going back to fumbling.

Of course it could be learned helplessness, I've seen scientific papers where people can experimentally condition rats (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=17379404&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum) to stand around with inaction despite uncomfortable stimuli that would encourage them to move else where.
Not the most pleasant stuff I've seen but apparently a valuable way of studying some forms of depression...

Gift.

[Cthulhu]

I've wondered about the believability of having Little Sisters cower in a corner during attacks. The Little Sisters have an avenue of escape that they use quite frequently for their inner Rapture travels (the pipe/vent system).


If you check the bioshock trailer, you can see that the vents are about 6-7 feet above the ground. Now unless the little sister has the ability to fly, she won't be able to return to a vent without the help of a big daddy to lift her up.

If you watch the two gameplay videos, it's clear that the little sister needs to be lifted up in order to reach the vent. :cool:

[Giftmacher]

Good point... That too :)

Gift.

[Raveness]

If you check the bioshock trailer, you can see that the vents are about 6-7 feet above the ground. Now unless the little sister has the ability to fly, she won't be able to return to a vent without the help of a big daddy to lift her up.

If you watch the two gameplay videos, it's clear that the little sister needs to be lifted up in order to reach the vent. :cool:

Even if they cannot reach a vent, I'd like to see them do better at hiding than what I've seen, and from what I've seen they doddle around even in front of crossfire. Even an adolescent child has the wherewithal to find some cover, preferably behind the Big Daddy's back if he is in defensive mode.

I believe Irrational is intentionally making them somewhat stupid in order to provide some accidental deaths of Little Sisters, so that the player will not *always* have to make the token moral decision to achieve Adam. They're still working out the kinks in the AI, and I have the (nearly) utmost faith in Irrational

[Hornet65]

People have said that the Little Sisters don't look human and they look creepy. I would like to place my imput in on this.
The little sisters look extremely sleep deprived, probably from living in a pipe and constantly looking for blood to turn into adam.
Most people will probably say "oh i'm not going to kill the little sisters thats just wrong" but it's not about what's right and wrong, it's about survival. sometimes, it's good to be selfish, if it means you get to live. you're saying it now, but if you were actually in the situation, where if you don't do this, you're going to die, you're gonna beat the little sister with a wrench. people do crazy stuff when they're in situations like this.

[v.dog]

Some people prefer death to compromising their morals. Other's would see it as obejective choice on the weight of two lives, whose is more valuable?

Personally, I think killing them would be wrong given that there are other methods to get what you need.

[smallsey]

what are the other methods tho?

[Giftmacher]

what are the other methods tho?

I think they'd qualify as spoilers... See:

http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9265&postcount=62

If you don't mind reading them now.

Gift.

[ShadowWolf9]

They will be slayed... and the blood from their vains will rain down on my lips as I drink the sweet taste of slaughter....

Kittens!

[kabumon77]

They will be slayed... and the blood from their vains will rain down on my lips as I drink the sweet taste of slaughter....

Kittens!

wow......you really sound like a freak!!! i think you need some pros help.:eek:




Kittens!:D

[Nihil]

They will be slayed... and the blood from their vains will rain down on my lips as I drink the sweet taste of slaughter....

Kittens!

I love it let's kill puppies too we can have a bonfire that stenches of the flesh of puppies kittens and little girls then ground the leftover carred meat and make shepards pie! that would be tasty!

[Giftmacher]

...then ground the leftover carred meat and make shepards pie! that would be tasty!

Presumably made with real shepards too? :D

Gift.

[MF9000]

Getting a bit carried away aren't we? Pretty sick.:mad:

[Azathoth]

Yeah that's a bit uncalled for. You're not supposed to say that out loud :o

[Jeff]

I don't think you're supposed to even think that. Besides, what would be better is getting 2 little sisters in one place and killing one in front of the other one. Is the AI reactive enough that the LS you're not killing would understand what she's witnessing?

[Hatesink]

I don't think you're supposed to even think that. Besides, what would be better is getting 2 little sisters in one place and then torturing one of them to death in front of the other one. Is the AI reactive enough that the LS you're not killing would understand what she's witnessing?You mean like Ian Huntley Jeff?

[2K Elizabeth]

Hey guys,

I just want to say that we should really keep in check how we talk about Little Sisters in the game. I don't want to censor anyone, but also this is an inclusive forum and I'm not sure how appropriate some of these conversations are. I will be editing comments that are really graphic or vulgar, so you know.

And to clarify, you cannot do severe harm to Little Sisters in game, as many posters have been ruminating about.

[Hatesink]

If this is the kind of people this place is going to attract, I'm just not sticking around.

I can't believe I didn't consider that.

How chagrined am I.

This totally sucks.

[Jeff]

No need to over react Hate, I'm willing to bet the farm that this isn't an example of "the type of people" this place attracts, nor an example of the type of people already here. Moreso just an example of some excitable youth's getting carried away at the notion of pure freedom with no other force watching.