Little Sisters?

[Big_Daddy]

I was wondering, Is there some sort of Negative side of killing the little sisters? (Apart from getting the Big daddies coming after you:p)

[Da Bubs]

well theres the emotional thing but that depends on the player, personally I have no problem killing hideous mutant little girls. I think the big daddies trying to put a giant drill through your face or shoot the tar out of you are enough of a penalty

[Xerxes]

Yep... you feel guilt for killing a poor innocent litlle girl... or maybe you don't feel anything because you've played way to many violent games in the past :D

[Gabby_Hayes]

Supposedly there's a story branch, though not affecting the big finale since there's only 1 confirmed ending, that takes the predation of Adam-Sucking Dwarves into account.

Heard from a podcast if memory serves. Can't remember which but it was one of the earlier ones linked to from the Cult Of Rapture.

[Necros]

As Ken said, you can help them in some ways. So if you're just killing them, you won't find out what he meant. :P :D

[Glottis]

I dont think killing them should be a bad thing or a good thing,its a game,not real life.Right and wrong is OH,so subjective....

Still I take it,that offing the little ones will make it a bit harder to get certain things accomplished during the game (getting certain resources,evading attack from the caretakers) I want to try ghosting the game,and as an aside hope that is a possibility,like with the Thief series.

[FrenchTart]

I was all for the idea of the moral dilemma that the pos. of killing them would put you in until I heard their voices in one of the videos.

GOD I hate kids :p

[Adam Nuhfer]

"Look Mr Bubbles........., Adam".

With the absence of viable Adult role model to guide her in social development, Big Daddy was the only choice left.


That's were we come in...........

[jackinthebox]

it's not only a moral question and the fact that the guarding big daddy will turn you inside out, but it also depends HOW you play the game... if you'll need much adam you will have to get it from somewhere (little sisters, snails...)... i believe there are going to be players who will play completely without plasmids... they won't have the hunger for adam...

[mercenar3]

"Look Mr Bubbles........., Adam".

With the absence of viable Adult role model to guide her in social development, Big Daddy was the only choice left.


That's were we come in...........

she does say something like that though in the demo video i remeber laughing my head off after hearing her talk.

[B1g Boom]

I could'nt help but laugh after she called that big holking thing MR. Bubbles :D

[Da Bubs]

I found that kind of creepy

[ffanxii4ever]

it's not only a moral question and the fact that the guarding big daddy will turn you inside out, but it also depends HOW you play the game... if you'll need much adam you will have to get it from somewhere (little sisters, snails...)... i believe there are going to be players who will play completely without plasmids... they won't have the hunger for adam...

Using lots of plasmids doesn't drain your Adam, but rather your Eve (unless you are constantly changing your equipped plasimids). Adam is the money of the game (like the nanites in SS2) so you will always be wanting Adam, no matter how you play.

I found that kind of creepy
And that is the point of calling a massive, armored, killing machine Mr. Bubbles

[Da Bubs]

eve is the equvilant of ss2's psi points

[Adabiviak]

Yeah, but that's exactly what an ill 6-year old would sound like. Even creepier.

[ffanxii4ever]

eve is the equvilant of ss2's psi points

I know that is why using plasmids drains your Eve, not your Adam. Changing your plasmids does take Adam though, because you need to use Adam to activate the plasmi-quick

[^ilovebioshock!]

this is kinda off topic but think it might be a litle less sick if it was little brothers:D

[jam777]

Is there only one Little Sister? Or are there multiples? If there is more than one, do they all look identical or will they be different?
:rolleyes:

[Renight]

Well, In my opinon, I would just say that to me, killing a helpless little girl, is all part of the game. Of corse, besides the fact that those big dadies are, well, just plain strong, I would think that I wouldn't kill them.
I mean, it may just be a game, but if you hear that little girls scream after you kill her, is kindof intense. And sometimes it would be a good idea to kill her, just becuase of the fact that she is probly a walking ADAM mine.
Seriously, if those big daddies are so strong, those girls must have alot of prosseced ADAM in them.
And another thing, if the girl calls him "Mr.Bubbles" it just adds to the creepyness. It is exactly how a little girl would do in that situation.

[^ilovebioshock!]

if you listen in the big daddy hunting vid you can hear her singing "Mr.Bubbles Mr.Bubbles Mr.Bubbles and ME!":D

[Silverback]

Yep... you feel guilt for killing a poor innocent litlle girl... or maybe you don't feel anything because you've played way to many violent games in the past :D
Playing Devil's Advocate for a second, I like to consider the idea that gamers (most of 'em) are very adept at de-senstizing themselves towards certain things because we're very aware it's not real. I know if I get scared at something in real life (like a feeling someone's in your house due to a strange sound) it scares the hell out of me much more than any game could ever do.

Maybe it's this idea which seems to be unknown or ignored that alienates non-gamers from us into thinking we can't "handle the trauma". Sure we can, we know exactly how real it is, not at all. But we're all just a bunch of fantasizing junkies who love a good escape.

*sorry for the Freud mumbo-jumbo but I've been waiting for a post to bring up this notion.

COMMENTS?

[Estevan]

You people are so ****ing technical and soulless. "It's Only a game." Why the hell are you going to buy this game anyway if "its only a game?" The whole POINT of the project is to be more than "just a game." That is why they are throwing in all of these aspects that force you to think and FEEL. It pulls off the same affects on the gamer just as much a very-well produced film that can make you cry. Go play Halo or Madden or some stupid **** like that. Typical, bloody typical.

[Hatesink]

I always try and sink myself into a game as much as possible, even to the point of using auto-suggestion to make the experience seem more real to me. I also play with the lights off and with the music turned off. I'm basically not going to be killing the little sisters, unless on a subsequent playthrough I decide to roll-play a Codename47 type character.

I think if you're able to feel nothing because it's "only a game" then you're really missing out on a huge part of the whole 'desktop virtual-reality videogame' phenomenon.

Personally, whenever I play I always try to keep my head in the game as much as possible and if that means emotionally investing in the characters, so be it. I don't see how you couldn't be emotionally invested in the Little Sisters and, by association, the Big Daddies.

[Soulsphere]

I agree with Hatesink about immersing oneself into a game. It's important, as in novels, to keep an eye out for hidden messages and meanings in the game. Also, to fully experience any game you play you have to put yourself into its world and treat things as if they were real.

I won't kill the Little Sisters either, at least not the first time I play through. I think it would be emotionally difficult to kill the little girls, no matter what anyone says.

[Raveness]

I'm gonna tease my niece with the threat of killing the Little Sisters. She flips out enough as it is whenever I pop a cap into a gruff looking adult NPC.

[Pinky_Powers]

I wonder if you can poison one of those Teddy Bears and present it to her as an offering of friendship.

A week under the gripping limbs of Yersinia pestis and her Adam reserve will be all mine!

[nmrahde]

I'm gonna tease my niece with the threat of killing the Little Sisters. She flips out enough as it is whenever I pop a cap into a gruff looking adult NPC.

Was this the same one that left the room because SS2 was too scary?

[splicer]

You people are so ****ing technical and soulless. "It's Only a game." Why the hell are you going to buy this game anyway if "its only a game?" The whole POINT of the project is to be more than "just a game." That is why they are throwing in all of these aspects that force you to think and FEEL. It pulls off the same affects on the gamer just as much a very-well produced film that can make you cry. Go play Halo or Madden or some stupid **** like that. Typical, bloody typical.

very well said!:)now youre talking"splicerspeak"-no BS!!!

[Raveness]

very well said!:)now youre talking"splicerspeak"-no BS!!!

That's funny, I thought splicerspeak was a series of bad grammatical errors :( My mistake :p

Was this the same one that left the room because SS2 was too scary?

Yes, she actually takes to threatening me with leaving if I'm hovering over an innocent NPC with a weapon drawn. I don't know if she'd care more or less if it was an innocent looking little girl. Do little kids think other little kids are innocent and should be protected more? Or are they like adults, and won't bat many eyelashes at violence against their own age group?

[nmrahde]

Yes, she actually takes to threatening me with leaving if I'm hovering over an innocent NPC with a weapon drawn. I don't know if she'd care more or less if it was an innocent looking little girl. Do little kids think other little kids are innocent and should be protected more? Or are they like adults, and won't bat many eyelashes at violence against their own age group?

No clue. I was in favor or dinosaurs or robots or dinosaur robots destroying mankind and taking over when I was a kid. Also wanted to have green hair. Then I grew up and turned normal. And got the green hair.

Unfortunately I am not allowed at my current job to have brightly colored hair. Fun Fact: I've caused multiple hair-related policy changes at both current and previous employers :)

[Raveness]

No clue. I was in favor or dinosaurs or robots or dinosaur robots destroying mankind and taking over when I was a kid. Also wanted to have green hair. Then I grew up and turned normal. And got the green hair.

Unfortunately I am not allowed at my current job to have brightly colored hair. Fun Fact: I've caused multiple hair-related policy changes at both current and previous employers :)

Yes, I remember your picture, reminded me of Vernon Wells in Road Warrior (http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/7973/10244qi3.jpg)

"Be still my dog of war. I understand your pain. We've all lost someone we love. But we do it my way! We do it my way. Fear is our ally. The gasoline will be ours. Then you shall have your revenge!"

[nmrahde]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you post that in the gallery thread? I thought so but then I checked again and it wasn't there?

(I've noticed this happens occasionally is it people deleting their posts or did I f-up some sorta filter?)

Edit: Sadly my build is more like the guy who gets his fingers chopped off trying to catch the boomerang

[nmrahde]

Wow I got completely off topic there.

Hrm...what about stealing the Little Sisters? Would having a Little Sister sweatshop be as bad? (I want all the Adam! ALL!)

[splicer]

[QUOTE=Raveness;7275]That's funny, I thought splicerspeak was a series of bad grammatical errors :( My mistake :p

ouch!-:eek:-ravenesspeak!-isnt this a series of verbose grammatically correct,yet entirely athsestic legal jargon?,sorry my mistake!

[Raveness]

[QUOTE=Raveness;7275]That's funny, I thought splicerspeak was a series of bad grammatical errors :( My mistake :p

ouch!-:eek:-ravenesspeak!-isnt this a series of verbose grammatically correct,yet entirely athsestic legal jargon?,sorry my mistake!

Could you rephrase that? I'm younger and obviously less experienced in the correct form of English that is spoken by adults.

[splicer]

[QUOTE=splicer;7344]

Could you rephrase that? I'm younger and obviously less experienced in the correct form of English that is spoken by adults.

I dunno,i forgot what the question was:p I think i'm getting old!;)

[Hatesink]

Splicer— I can feel your blood-pressure rising just looking at these posts :p;)

Let it go dude ;)

[splicer]

;) yeah not worth the hassle!:)

[jackinthebox]

"you have the shinning!"
"you mean shining?"
"psssst! you wanna get sued?!"

but now back to the topic ;)

[Raveness]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v253/RavenessM/Caps/nicksrealtv.jpg

[Hatesink]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v253/RavenessM/Caps/nicksrealtv.jpgLooks like you need a quick trim Raveness ;)

[Pinky_Powers]

What exactly are we talking about here? :confused:

[nmrahde]

hyperbaric space ducks who are after the spice melange

[Pinky_Powers]

I need to a few beers in me right now.

[nmrahde]

Beer? Nasty.

It's Bailey's Irish Cream or nothing! (Actually Cap'n n Coke, Long Island Iced Teas are also good...)

[witch]

Beer? Nasty.

It's Bailey's Irish Cream or nothing! (Actually Cap'n n Coke, Long Island Iced Teas are also good...)

Screw that, bring me some wine, preffered Merlot. :D

[Pinky_Powers]

My dog's got no nose...

What did you expect from that shifty joint you got him from? They had cow fetuses hanging from the ceiling fans and Share's greatest hits playing all day long.

[willerokiller]

i dunno it seems killing little girls is kinda immoral and sick, i mean im all up for bioshock and cant wait for it to come out, but this seems like a serial murder's wet dream if all you do is go around and kill little girls, though i feel like im going to be savinmg them rather than killin em, maybe you just take the adam from the forcefully and not kill them? though i am just thinking out loud and asking a question that has been on the tip of my tounge.

[Neoviper]

I think it will only be a guilt thing. since you'd have to kill the big daddy to actually get close enough to the little sister, thats the consequence. if other big daddies started coming after you if you killed a little sister, that wouldn't make much sense, because unless they directly saw you kill her, how would they know you did it? another thing is that if you kill them you likely get more adam, but obviously only once, if you leave them alive and help them they would continue to get adam, which you could come back later and get from them again. that would actually do it pretty well, either solve an immediate need for adam, or get more over a longer period of time.

oh and willero, im not absolutely sure, but they take the adam inside their bodies to process it or somesuch, so if you wanted it, you probably couldnt take it other than killing them. although how they give it to you is a mystery.

[nmrahde]

@Willer and Viper - Basically the Little Sisters stick yer average corpse with their needle and pump out a reddish liquid (only speculation so far if blood is part of this), then process it in their bodies and it becomes eve. More info HERE (http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9321#post9321) I believe.

Somebody with magical powers should merge these threads for the kill (sorry stil on a Devastator kick...):P

Edit: Actually that first thread was just more on the moral consequences...THIS (http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=419) one is on the Adam/Eve processing of LIttle Sisters

[BioShockWins]

I'm not sure if we are on the same topic... but Baileys FTW!!!

[v.dog]

Baileys on the rocks = win. :)

[Pinky_Powers]

i dunno it seems killing little girls is kinda immoral and sick, i mean im all up for bioshock and cant wait for it to come out, but this seems like a serial murder's wet dream if all you do is go around and kill little girls, though i feel like im going to be savinmg them rather than killin em, maybe you just take the adam from the forcefully and not kill them? though i am just thinking out loud and asking a question that has been on the tip of my tounge.

It is beautiful for you to feel this way and a very large part of what makes BioShock stand out.

You will be able to play this game according to your own moral limits, and you can choose for yourself if killing is something you can see yourself doing to survive.

On the other hand, it is equally beautiful that the choice exists for another type of player to hold different beliefs on morality and take a separate rout, in order to experience the game and live.

It is the golden form of Choice that is perfect and should not be frowned on or discouraged.

Rapture is no longer a civilized place, and you are put into the middle of the morals and rulings of War Time. And it is here that you have to choose what is right and what is wrong.

It has been grotesquely urinated from the mouths of some, on nearly every BioShock forum running, that the acceptance of killing a Little Sister in BioShock is to accept the killing of a little child in general.

There is, in fact, little to no connection. And I am not speaking of the summit between video games and reality. I am referring to my earlier comment on War Time, or some could simply call it survival mode. To kill a Little Sister in order to retrieve the most important substance for your own survival, in this endlessly hostile environment, is far removed from killing or raping or abusing children in general.

There are other ways of getting Adam in this game, but to choose one way or the other does not make you evil… it may just mean you are busy and a little more morally flexible.

[Pinky_Powers]

This is how Jack Thompson rose-colored glasses work ;)

Oh, I’m well aware of that. :(

It is hard to find another whose perspective is so fractured and fundamentally irrelevant.

[nmrahde]

*Shakes head* Why do people see the trees and not the forest? Why?

For one, this is not the first game and will probably not be the last to feature the possiblity of kids getting caught in an intentional or unintentional hail of violence. I don't remember if Postal actually had kids but I know both Fallouts did, and they marked you as a childkiller if you did kill them.

For two, mindless violence is so...well...boring. Imagine if you will an undersea utopia full of things that give you power enough to do pretty much anything you please. Only there's a catch, this power runs off of Adam/Eve. That means you need a source. Which means it's not only pointless, it's criminally inefficient to kill off the Little Sisters. They already have the Adam/Eve supply chain set up. They already have bodyguards to make sure that supply chain continues uninterrupted. All they need is...guidance.:)

[Pinky_Powers]

*Shakes head* Why do people see the trees and not the forest? Why?

Because in the end the forest is nothing but its individual trees.

Plus, those wide-angle lenses tent to make my balls hurt. Don't ask me why, the doctors are clueless.

Also, I think it is going to prove pointless to even bother and keep the "supply-chain" going. Rapture is sinking and irreversibly perverted (I assure you, nothing sexual)... And you are not staying. Your character is on his way out. There is nothing to preserve down there, especially not to your benefit.

I suppose you could argue that we really can’t know for sure until the game releases, but I am haughty and unflinchingly arrogant.

[borgdrone89]

yay!!! simulators for killing little girls FTW!!!

[nmrahde]

I suppose you could argue that we really can’t know for sure until the game releases, but I am haughty and unflinchingly arrogant.

Anyone who admits that can't be all bad...unless they are :P I also am arrogant (top hat, duh!) hence thinking I can rule Rapture instead...wait that's beyond arrogance...think they call that megalomania...:)

[willerokiller]

yay!!! simulators for killing little girls FTW!!!

see this is what bothers me, people are actually excited to do kill these little girls, i can see it is acceptable from a survival point of view, but when people go parading around yelling " I cant wait to kill little girls" it just seems over the top is all, i mean ok it is sometimes necessary to maybe kill the m to get sum ADAM but to be looking foreward to killing them to extract the ADAM by killin little girls is just weird and immoral.

[willerokiller]

yea i know, but i bet you, some people are lookin foreward to killin them is all

[willerokiller]

alright :cool: who is jack johnson anyway????????????? :confused:

[Pinky_Powers]

yea i know, but i bet you, some people are lookin foreward to killin them is all

But this is neither here nor there. It is an awful path to traverse; looking at everything through the question “what if some people will enjoy it too much?” It is not for the game developers to concern themselves with. There will always be sick’os in the world, but they should not be cited as a pretext for the choosing of content.

Also, "jack johnson"??? ;)

[Raveness]

But this is neither here nor there. It is an awful path to traverse; looking at everything through the question “what if some people will enjoy it too much?” It is not for the game developers to concern themselves with. There will always be sick’os in the world, but they should not be cited as a pretext for the choosing of content.

Also, "jack johnson"??? ;)

Essentially what reactionaries cling to, not just in the matter of videogames, but everything in general. A lot of them spring about when something personal happens to them, and tend to disregard studies and facts in pursuit of some myopic moral crusade. The media doesn't help either, blowing every minority occurence into a majority level of coverage and spin.

For instance, in my practice one client (peace officer) was so vehement about how dangerous their profession had become after being stabbed while on duty; his wife mentioned to me that he had become oddly didactic about the dangers, spouting how it has gotten worse. Yet the defense was able to site numerous short-term & long-term studies and statistics on how the streets had became a lot safer from violent crime. Suffice to say we lost that case ;)

[qaz88aof]

Hmm... IMO i can't see myself Killing the Little Sisters in the game... They look like little girls... they sound like little girls... unless they're the essence of evil itself (in a different form)... i'd rather my character died. F*ck survival, if that option was present in real life... i would also rather die.

Although I'm sure Irrational will either present an alternative to killing them (to extract the Adam), or depict them as evil. I would be extremely disappointed and disturbed if they were just 'little girls', even if it was simply the players choice to kill them.

Allowing such actions in a video game is inevitable (as player freedom increases), however they should not be promoted, and further should not reward the player.

Video games have come under alot of scrutiny in the past (Jack Johnson anyboy?), and will continue to in the future. This is mostly uncalled for, as such an medium will always cross moral and legal borders (that is the actions available in a game). However i will agree that some games do deserve to be scrutinized over...

Manhunt anyone... 'Oh i know, let's make a game where the player stars as a serial killer... where you can suffocate others with a plastic bag, and have some sicko film it and encourage you along the way' (what were they thinking when they made that one... I'm glad it's banned, here in Australia anyway)

The point is i think the industry should tread carefully when including such immoral actions in their games. It's too easy for non-gamers to misinterpret, and start crusading against the medium (and we wouldn't want that now would we).

[willerokiller]

definately not
i agree with you

[splicer]

Actually this whole will you wont you dillema could spell real trouble for this game.A national newspaper recently had a front page dedicated to violence in videogames,the game in question god of war 2 deals with the killing of mythical creatures,the fact that bioshock offers you the oppotunity of harvesting a seemingly innocent young girl is only going to add fuel to an already raging fire,i wouldnt be at all surprised to see over reactionary and negative press once its released:(

[willerokiller]

o well the have obviously thought of this when they decided to have little girls as the harvesters and should be ready to take on a LOAD of critics and fundamentalists

[splicer]

Maybe,but if it ends up being withdrawn,they may regret the decision,even though i greatly admire any developer thats willing to take risks and push the genre forward.:(

[Jeff]

The whole "violence in video games leads to violence in people" arguement is easily countered these days. Study after study has revealed on countless occasions that violent video games in no way affect the social patterns or general behaviour of those who play them. The only main group left making arguements that violent games affect people is the religious right, and who cares about them anyway? if they had their way we'd all be playing "Jesus and friends" or "Pet the bunny" constantly. Although I'm sure the religious right would find something morally wrong with a bunny petting game.

[splicer]

I totally agree,though i can still see bio causing a bit of a stir,especially amongst child protection groups-some of these organisations,although they do a fantastic job,often make scapegoats to further their cause,and our game may have to shake off some heat.;)

[2K Elizabeth]

BioShock is a game with mature and morally complex choices. Like movies
that deal with complex and challenging moral themes such as The
Godfather, Schindler's List and Fight Club, BioShock is intended for an
adult audience. The Little Sisters are one of those choices as the only
source of ADAM. It comes down to each player making their own decision
- whether to exploit the Little Sisters for all their ADAM by Harvesting
them or whether they will try to Save them. We're telling a complex
story but doing so in a responsible way that we take very seriously. As
we'll be discussing more soon, this decision is also laden with a degree
of moral ambiguity that we believe players will find challenging and
respectful of their capacity to make their own decisions.

[MF9000]

The whole "violence in video games leads to violence in people" arguement is easily countered these days. Study after study has revealed on countless occasions that violent video games in no way affect the social patterns or general behaviour of those who play them. The only main group left making arguements that violent games affect people is the religious right, and who cares about them anyway? if they had their way we'd all be playing "Jesus and friends" or "Pet the bunny" constantly. Although I'm sure the religious right would find something morally wrong with a bunny petting game.

Way to generalize. You can't tag every Christian as being against these types of games. There are plenty of Christians that play violent video games. The types you're referring to are the "turn or burn" type of Christian. With these Christians I have to question as to whether they really get the message. They interpret the Bible how they want it to be, not how it is. But I don't want this to turn into a religious debate. Let's just say it's the more fundamentalist types that will have the problem. Back in the day dancing was a no-no even though there was plenty of dancing and celebration in the Bible. Go figure. This what I mean by wanting to interpret something the way you want it, not how it is. Sorry for the ramble.

[Raveness]

As we'll be discussing more soon, this decision is also laden with a degree of moral ambiguity that we believe players will find challenging and respectful of their capacity to make their own decisions.

I can only hope this comes true, and our morality-based decisions are not cleverly disguised predetermined choices. I seriously hope the obstacles the Rapture environment gives the players are not designed to coincide directly with a moral decision thats laying a few feet from the player, ie. This doors security override will require 'X' Adam. Damn no Plasmi-Quiks around, and the way back is blocked. Oh look, there's a particularily vulnerable Little Sister hopscotching around, her Big Daddy is distracted with a splicer.

[Irrational_Alexx]

I seriously hope the obstacles the Rapture environment gives the players are not designed to coincide directly with a moral decision thats laying a few feet from the player, ie. This doors security override will require 'X' Adam. Damn no Plasmi-Quiks around, and the way back is blocked. Oh look, there's a particularily vulnerable Little Sister hopscotching around, her Big Daddy is distracted with a splicer.

Never fear. Adam is never a blocking element, it's just a character growth element. The closest we would come to something like your example would be: Looks like there will be a difficult fight to get through that area. I don't think I'm tough enough to handle it yet. Should I go buy some more ammo? Or change my Plasmid loadout at a Gene Bank? Or maybe I should try and find a Little Sister? Or do something wacky, like carefully gathering up explosive barrels to use with Telekinesis... Lots of options.

Alexx Kay, Designer, Irrational Games

[Hatesink]

That's cool. Having inventive and imaginative 'locks' and 'keys' I can live with, if the story and the aesthetics are good, but for this kind of action title, the more dynamic the better. Having to find a key in the form of Adam to hack a door every five minutes probably wouldn't be that great— I'm glad it's not going to be like that.

[Raveness]

Never fear. Adam is never a blocking element, it's just a character growth element. The closest we would come to something like your example would be: Looks like there will be a difficult fight to get through that area. I don't think I'm tough enough to handle it yet. Should I go buy some more ammo? Or change my Plasmid loadout at a Gene Bank? Or maybe I should try and find a Little Sister? Or do something wacky, like carefully gathering up explosive barrels to use with Telekinesis... Lots of options.

Alexx Kay, Designer, Irrational Games

I assume then that the levels in the game are relatively wide open and available to explore, with minimal security or door obstacles that can be overcome without heavy resistance. Sounds like SS2 after you get some key security cards :)

I never thought Adam itself would be a blocking element, but rather that contrived circumstances would force the player into using/abusing a Little Sister to acquire Adam, if the other avenues mentioned (buying ammo, Gene Bank, usable objects) are off-limits. But I think you've answered my fears with exactly what I wanted to hear. I' a student of the Deus Ex inspired varied approaches to dealing with combat or objectives, sounds like Bioshock follows the same path :cool:

[Havok4]

The Little Sisters are one of those choices as the only source of ADAM.

Are they the only source of ADAM or just the greatest source of ADAM? As in some of the demos it is shown found in cash registers or on the corpses of splicers.

[v.dog]

It depends. Are we talking Adam or Eve? As I understand it; Adam, as the inert form, is money, and it's also what is extracted from the corpses by LS. Eve is the active form of Adam, it's what they process it into, and what drives your plasmids.

[qaz88aof]

Anybody hear about the student being transferred because he made a map of his school in Counterstrike. I understand and support Irrational and 2KGames... i just hope this (the 'harvesting' adam from the little sisters) doesn't create the same drama that incident did

[Nihil]

On this whole topic i think it is very important to immerse urself into the game as one of you guys said before you want to feel it no lights no music just play and get the moral messages and uch that the developers wanted in the game, it's a work of art just like paintings books music whatever, and to be honest if i was in that kinda situation in real life i would have an easier time killing the LS'S then in the video game (except for the fact the BD'S would kick my ass), cause in that chaos you would be willing to do whatever it takes to survive... unless you just off urself, anyways the game if you immerse urself makes you question if it's really right? sure there mutants but "can you find a way to save the spider and the butterfly"... any of you anime fans if you can name where that quote is from you get bonus points for what i dunno...

[kabumon77]

I was wondering, Is there some sort of Negative side of killing the little sisters? (Apart from getting the Big daddies coming after you:p)

Personally i would just kill them both becuse, first it is just a game and you can start over. Second i would becuse you could get some good loot from the big daddy also it would be cool if you could pick up there guns, and use them. third it would be one less big daddy to worry about as you roam the halls of rapture.:D

[Hornet65]

well, Honestly, you're going to kill the little sister, you're killing a little girl, so you can get adam from her. but you'll probably end up spending the adam disableing the security system you accidently trip and probably healing yourself after you kill the BD, IF you kill the BD

[Raveness]

Anybody hear about the student being transferred because he made a map of his school in Counterstrike. I understand and support Irrational and 2KGames... i just hope this (the 'harvesting' adam from the little sisters) doesn't create the same drama that incident did

2K or Irrational shouldn't worry about how some knee-jerk reactionary dullards that are mostly out for either political or monetary gain abuse their material for their own gains. Such incidents that lack any semblance of common sense and perspective are sickening to the highest degree, and usually include an incredulous statement: "You can't do that kinda thing post 9/11".

Ben Franklin's quote has never been more important: "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

[Nihil]

2K or Irrational shouldn't worry about how some knee-jerk reactionary dullards that are mostly out for either political or monetary gain abuse their material for their own gains. Such incidents that lack any semblance of common sense and perspective are sickening to the highest degree, and usually include an incredulous statement: "You can't do that kinda thing post 9/11".

Ben Franklin's quote has never been more important: "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

but ben franklin was fat and was killed by lighting flying a kite so obviously he like essentially liberty! haha jk i agree with yu raveness.

[kabumon77]

well, Honestly, you're going to kill the little sister, you're killing a little girl, so you can get adam from her. but you'll probably end up spending the adam disableing the security system you accidently trip and probably healing yourself after you kill the BD, IF you kill the BD

Well that all depends if there is a sucerity camra near by, also if you are stratigic enough to use all of your Surroundings, and all the abilitys you have.
plus it also depends on how far you are in the game, becuse you might have powerful weapons. if you look at the hunting the big daddy clip honestly who would suspect to shoot the canister, and lite him on fire!!!:D

[Irrational_Alexx]

Are they the only source of ADAM or just the greatest source of ADAM? As in some of the demos it is shown found in cash registers or on the corpses of splicers.

These mechanics have changed a number of times during production, which is why some of the older demos show something different. As of now (and it's far too late to change again!) Little Sisters are the *only* source of ADAM.

Alexx Kay, Designer, Irrational Games

[Havok4]

Is defeating the big daddy's and harming the little sisters (if you harm them to take ADAM from them) the only way to get ADAM from them or just the quickest/easiest/most effecent way to acquire ADAM, so those with morals will have just a significantly reduced amount of character growth or will it be a completely be evil or get no genetic powers system.

[Raveness]

Hmm, now the game becomes just a notch more linear. Starting to look more like SS2, in terms of having a singular objectives but using different tools and approaches to achieve that objective.

I'm seriously doubting you can go through the entire game without killing a single Little Sister, unless there's some hidden reputation gimmick that makes you a hero to the Little Sister/Big Daddy community of workers.

[splicer]

These mechanics have changed a number of times during production, which is why some of the older demos show something different. As of now (and it's far too late to change again!) Little Sisters are the *only* source of ADAM.

Alexx Kay, Designer, Irrational Games

Oh dear! To splice or not to splice!;)

[Havok4]

I'm seriously doubting you can go through the entire game without killing a single Little Sister, unless there's some hidden reputation gimmick that makes you a hero to the Little Sister/Big Daddy community of workers.

I would like this kind of reputation gimmick. Maybe by helping protect little sisters who are being attacked by splicers or something similar. The best way I think to do the ADAM rationing in the game is to make it so that if you choose the moral path you will be disadvantaged early in the game, but later on you will receive help and resources from those whom you have helped during the game. While being evil will give you more power but also more enemies.

[Raveness]

Tis what I was thinking as well. Choose the moral route, get less Adam on the whole, or at least less early on, suffer more hardship by having to share Adam; possibly get the best ending using the 'Goodie 2 shoes' approach.

Choose the bastage route, get Adam whenever you need, though it will be fleeting like a drug. Hardship is less based on sharing Adam and more based on fighting more opponents; get a less satisfying ******* ending, usually involving a big lump of irony.

Accessibility to endings should be based on more than decisions made in the last leg of the game. I hate when you can simply save at a mark just before the last 10-15 minutes and redux just that to get all endings.

[Havok4]

I agree with you that that would be the system I desire most for this game, as I do not like playing the "dark-side" method in a game, but I still want some chance for character progression. Maybe there is a method of saving little sisters from danger that rewards you with a small amount of ADAM or a way to get less ADAM from them without harming them or similar.

[Irrational_Alexx]

I'm seriously doubting you can go through the entire game without killing a single Little Sister,

It is absolutely possible to do so. You won't be able to make it through without confronting at least some of the Big Daddies, but we're not going to force anyone to kill Little Sisters.

Alexx Kay, Designer, Irrational Games

[smallsey]

It is absolutely possible to do so. You won't be able to make it through without confronting at least some of the Big Daddies, but we're not going to force anyone to kill Little Sisters.

Alexx Kay, Designer, Irrational Games

thought that if you left the Big Daddies alone, then they didnt want to kick your ass?
from the coverage G4 gave bioshock, im sure you will make uber amounts of money from it now.
Australia better not ban it...

[Hatesink]

Australia better not ban it...I'd hope not. I think as long as the premise and motivations are morally sound, and it's not 'exploitative' it should absolutely be released worldwide.

[Raveness]

It is absolutely possible to do so. You won't be able to make it through without confronting at least some of the Big Daddies, but we're not going to force anyone to kill Little Sisters.

Alexx Kay, Designer, Irrational Games

Thats good, but I'm left wondering how this works in tandem with the Little Sisters being the only source of Adam. It sounds like playstyles will be quite restrictive, for instance if you want to go the 'mother-protector' route in regards to the Little Sisters, then I imagine the amount of Adam you can obtain is lessened, therefore restricting which plasmids you can use & how often. In that situation you would have to fallback on pure gun use.

This is assuming of course that you cannot befriend LS's and achieve near 80+% of the Adam you could if attacking them for it. But then if you could get nearly as much Adam using passive routes, then it reduces the importance of the moral dilemma.

Basically what I'm saying boils down to this: Does being morally good = 90% guns/10% plasmids? Does being a killer = 50/50? Is there enough Adam via any route to make those numbers quite flexible?

I can only guess that this loop is addressed via simplicity in the game; it is Shooter 2.0 after all.

[Havok4]

I think that the two methods would be balanced by the varying amount of combat for the two paths. The evil path has more power and plasmids but you have to fight much more with harder enemies. The good path has less power and plasmids but also less combat against powerful enemies (big daddies). I think that a good percentage of the resources you could get in the good path when compared to the evil path is around 65% or so.

[v.dog]

The other way I've seen it is that good pays off later (and and often better), whereas bad is gives you immediate gratification, but is not as beneficial long term. IIRC, Black and White was like this.

[Hatesink]

The other way I've seen it is that good pays off later (and and often better), whereas bad is gives you immediate gratification, but is not as beneficial long term. IIRC, Black and White was like this.I think that would be a good way to balance it. Whenever I play games with moral choices I'm always looking forward to my halo, or rising flecks of light, and adulation or whatever else goes along with it.

[Havok4]

I have heard that if you help the little sisters you will eventually gain access to rare and powerful plasmids. Also you will make friends who may help you with combat or possibly give you access to ADAM. I Like the idea of long term/ short term balancing.

[lurchibald]

Im the type of person that can get emotionally involved in games just like movies etc. i mean ive spent more time gaming than with my own family lol

But i beleve these moral implications will work in this game.


but looking at some of the video demos i think in one i saw (voiced over by ken lavene) there was another way to kill the little sister (now i may be wrong cause he didnt talk about it) but i think there was a big daddy a little sister and a splicer when he used the Splicer Irritant and what happend was that when the splicer attacked she killed the little sister . just a thought

I'm gonna tease my niece with the threat of killing the Little Sisters. She flips out enough as it is whenever I pop a cap into a gruff looking adult NPC.

and Raveness if u dont have already get a copy of postal 2 i think ur neice would really hate it :D

but getting back to subject i think i would kill the little sisters for the adam because the life they are living is sick and i believe in euthinasia (or however its spelt) i mean going around sucking goop outa bodies then drinking it :eek:

[lurchibald]

thought that if you left the Big Daddies alone, then they didnt want to kick your ass?
from the coverage G4 gave bioshock, im sure you will make uber amounts of money from it now.
Australia better not ban it...

Its not comming to australia till DEC i heard but it doesnt matter me iv preordered mine from the US and will get tha limited edition when it comes out in augest.

the cool thing is though that customs dont usually take-away things like games i got postal 2 sent from the UK no problem and its Totally banned here.

[Morty]

The way I see it, is that given your present environment and situation, one would take the ubermensch approach and be above morality, above the black and white of good and evil.

Think about it, you've just entered a world which has and still is literaly and figuratively tearing itself apart from the inside. Insane mutants kill indiscriminantly, the few remaining "normal" people try and do what they can to survive, and geneticly modified little girls roam the corridors with giant monsters, doing what they are programmed to do.

This world has descended farther than any before it. There is no good or bad, no rule or law, no heaven or hell. There is only life and death.

...At least that's how I see it. My morality is loose at best, I'd probably kill a little sister at some point, only to go out of my way to save another later in the game.

[Raveness]

There is no doubt that you will play within yourself in Bioshock, and that you will transpose your own value system into your actions within Rapture, with a few lenience's given the situations you encounter. I think it's naeieve to say that given the situation was real that people would readily abandone their morality, especially considering a prominent fixture of mankind's definition of innocent is prevalent in Rapture.

This world has descended farther than any before it. There is no good or bad, no rule or law, no heaven or hell. There is only life and death.

I don't believe so. There appears to be forces still at work in Rapture, attempting to assert their ideals into the cluster**** the situation has descended into. Yourself as the player could become one of those forces by the end of the story, henceforth being a prototypical protagonist in a 'fish out of water' narrative.

[smallsey]

Its not comming to australia till DEC i heard but it doesnt matter me iv preordered mine from the US and will get tha limited edition when it comes out in augest.

the cool thing is though that customs dont usually take-away things like games i got postal 2 sent from the UK no problem and its Totally banned here.

december?

DECEMBER?
please, someone from the dev team tell me this is not true

[lurchibald]

december?

DECEMBER?
please, someone from the dev team tell me this is not true

thats what i heard, i went into EB Games here in mackay and they said it wasnt coming out till then so thats why im importing the LE myself.

[qaz88aof]

thats what i heard, i went into EB Games here in mackay and they said it wasnt coming out till then so thats why im importing the LE myself.

i will cry if this is true... is it possible to import a PAL version???

[lurchibald]

not 2 sure bout a pal version thats why i love having a pc lol

[lurchibald]

just to add i dont think computers really have a region coding for PC games but unless u want it for an xbox

can ne1 clarify this???

[lurchibald]

They could be invincible,but that makes having a protector a moot point.dont you think?-It doesnt bother me,I'm not laying a finger on them!

just think about it, there you are, theres the little sister and there's you with your trusty shotty, now last time i checked shotguns were not designed just to knock something out, just think:

You: BANG BANG BANG!
Little Sister: <YAWN> ZZZZZ ZZZZZ ZZZZZ
You: What The!!!??? <click click click> BANG BANG BANG!
Little Sister: <muttering> No mum i don't wanna go to school today ZZZZZ ZZZZZ ZZZZZ

You:.....----
..........- :confused: -
............---
.........\...l..../
..........\..l../
..............l
..............l
..............l
............/..\
........../......\

[Bioshock_FTW!]

hooray triple posts.........

[Raveness]

Originally Posted by splicer
They could be invincible,but that makes having a protector a moot point.dont you think?-It doesnt bother me,I'm not laying a finger on them!

No. The Big Daddy's entire act is to block the player from getting Adam, so how would them being invincible be moot? Even if the LS only get knocked out, you still need to deal with their BD protector. I think it will be a matter of game balancing whether they can die. That could have opened a can of difficult worms that Irrational decided made the game too hard.

I'm banking on them being dieable, the video is too much evidence to the contrary, but the word of the devs is king.

[splicer]

I see what you are saying Raveness,I wasnt suggesting that they are in fact invincible,my point is this,If they cannot die,then they could roam the halls collecting adam as they wish,without the need for the BD,
but its obvious that they can and do die when attacked,so need their protector.
It also strikes me as strange as to why the splicers would want to kill her anyway,after she is dead,any adam she possesed would become inert and of no use to them.
I think you have to agree that there are some inconsistencies regarding this issue.
The only reason as you say she needs a protector is to prevent we,the player from obtaining adam,but unless they knew we were coming,she would not need the BD,as logically,as I've said,the splicers have no gain to be had from killing her,in fact its quite the opposite.
How do you feel about it?.

[Raveness]

I think there may be glaring inconsistencies in the gamey aspects of Bioshock and the narrative aspects of Bioshock, this being one of them. If they cannot die, then it opens a can of unbelievability worms.

They cannot roam the halls collecting Adam without a BD, that's just stupid and unsafe. Having them unkillable reduces the BD into a gamey obstacle, a mechanic that is designed around THE resource of the game. Having said that, I wonder if Irrational through playtesting found that having weak Little Sisters that could die at anytime from a small-medium amount of damage made the game horribly difficult to obtain Adam. This route could lead to other activity in the game being based around the Little Sister becoming a crate-like mechanic, therein reducing the moral dilemma we were promised to face. Why worry about harvesting Adam from one if they don’t die or become helpless?

It also strikes me as strange as to why the splicers would want to kill her anyway,after she is dead,any adam she possesed would become inert and of no use to them.
Think outside of the box: Control of the marketplace of Adam. They could utter some words before plugging her like "If I don't need it, no one needs it" Certain splicers that are Adam rich can target Little Sisters to sabotage other's accumulation of Adam. This is of course assuming that Little Sisters can be killed, and not that they have been reduced to a crate-like game mechanic where they’re only disabled. Good god I hope not, then splicer activity would be tailored around that crate-like mechanic too.

[splicer]

To use your expression-ripped my own thoughts out of my head!
Well,its only a game I guess,and I suppose these mechanics perhaps are not designed to withstand too much scrutiny under our microscopes.
It will be a shame though,if these great characters are nothing more than padding.:) The point about Adam rich splicers is interesting too,as I'd assumed they had become addicted to it,so rather than destroy the only source,go to great lengths to preserve it.It is a can of worms,and sadly the more I think about it,a fundamentally critical one.

[qaz88aof]

I noticed a similar topic in the forums for Fallout 3... and what strikes me as odd is that i do not want to harm children in Bioshock... but i would hate it if they took the possibility out of Fallout 3... wonder why...

Anyway i noticed this comment in the thread... and thought it was hilarious... a true representation of the freedom in Fallout...

"Lol, in the den when you walk around the kids with only one lit explosive in inventory, they'll steal it, and if your timing was right they'll bring it to the guy who sends them pickpocketing and he will be blown up instead

This is Fallout

The child killer title effectively cut you off from half the game as many quest givers won't even talk to you, so getting the title isn't anything desirable at all, but its better than immortal kids or no kids at all." - JOG, The thread is 'Child Killer title!' FYI

[Ectoplasm]

Bah, morality shmorality. Gotta get thinking. Why are LS all same age? where are teenage LS, where are their parents, why do they have this unique ability to process the stuff? Why can't someone genetically self-modify to do same exact thing? Suck Adam from corpses and transform into usable form?

LS aren't children, they aren't human. They are biobots specifically engineered for the task. They could be made to look like slimy green spiders with tentacles, but instead, the creator did the smart thing and created a package designed to give max psychological block to the most likely predator - civilized humans that were until recently populatimg the place.

The system is brilliant. To an Adam hunter, LS is the primary target, primary damage recipient, which allows BD to land the first strike on the offender. And should offender target BD first, LS has time to escape. Small frail simple LS is easier to repair or reproduce than a massive BD with its armor and weapons. LS appearance as child is the first line of defense. Prospect of facing a BD is second. A smart hunter realizes that LS looks are but a clever camo to give pause to 'intellectuals' - and ignores it, instead weighing potential Adam gain vs what will be used up to deal with the BD.

Gotta say, this whole 'little girl' thing is getting a bit overused in games.

[MF9000]

Bah, morality shmorality. Gotta get thinking. Why are LS all same age? where are teenage LS, where are their parents, why do they have this unique ability to process the stuff? Why can't someone genetically self-modify to do same exact thing? Suck Adam from corpses and transform into usable form?

LS aren't children, they aren't human. They are biobots specifically engineered for the task. They could be made to look like slimy green spiders with tentacles, but instead, the creator did the smart thing and created a package designed to give max psychological block to the most likely predator - civilized humans that were until recently populatimg the place.

The system is brilliant. To an Adam hunter, LS is the primary target, primary damage recipient, which allows BD to land the first strike on the offender. And should offender target BD first, LS has time to escape. Small frail simple LS is easier to repair or reproduce than a massive BD with its armor and weapons. LS appearance as child is the first line of defense. Prospect of facing a BD is second. A smart hunter realizes that LS looks are but a clever camo to give pause to 'intellectuals' - and ignores it, instead weighing potential Adam gain vs what will be used up to deal with the BD.

Gotta say, this whole 'little girl' thing is getting a bit overused in games.

Actually you'll have a chance to cure them of their ability to process adam and return them back to being normal little girls. I can't remember which thread this info is in, but use the search function and I'm sure you'll find it.

[splicer]

@Ectoplasm
I agree the creepy little girl mechanic is in danger of becoming a cliche now,I think Irrational have taken things as far as they can go.
The thread mentioned above is called Curing the LS-avoid if you dont like spoilers!:)

[Raveness]

Wrong cliche I believe. I don't see Bioshock attempting to use little girls as cheap Ring knockoff scare tactics, but rather as a facet of our moral underpinnings.

Bioshock is asking the player, as a human being, not just as a control mechanism: What do I do with these people? How do I save them? Do I save them or myself if push comes to shove. I believe the game progresses that way, rather than contriving scenarios that give the illusion of free choice when your really just being lead on intellectual rails to the very end meeting between protagonist & antagonist.

[splicer]

Sorry,I wasnt pointing a finger directly at Bioshock,because as you say,its an entirely different scenario-but other games arent quite as inventive,so it ends up relying on the Boo factor as I like to call it!;)

[Raveness]

Sorry,I wasnt pointing a finger directly at Bioshock,because as you say,its an entirely different scenario-but other games arent quite as inventive,so it ends up relying on the Boo factor as I like to call it!;)

I was actually responding to Ectoplasm, just like you did :) Most of it is just out-loud pondering of the scope of the Little Sisters in the game.

[Ectoplasm]

What I am saying is, it is hard to come up with an image more fragile, innocuous and sympathy-inducing than that of a small girl, and many forms of media have capitalized on that big-time.
Said girl can be a monster to induce a shock factor at such interior/exterior clash. Or she can be a victim of some horrible act, in order to better induce protagonist's righteous anger, or placed in a way to present an obstacle for protagonist, forcing a moral choice laced with remorse - all really different facets of the same concept. Heck, you can cram all three into the same plot! Villain does something unspeakable to a little girl who turns into a monster, and now protagonist has a mission to punish the villain, and is faced with a moral dilemma of potentially having to put down the girl as well.
Exactly how the concept is employed is not as important as the fact that gamers are starting to get rather desensitized to the plights of virtual little girls.

[Raveness]

What I am saying is, it is hard to come up with an image more fragile, innocuous and sympathy-inducing than that of a small girl, and many forms of media have capitalized on that big-time.
Said girl can be a monster to induce a shock factor at such interior/exterior clash. Or she can be a victim of some horrible act, in order to better induce protagonist's righteous anger, or placed in a way to present an obstacle for protagonist, forcing a moral choice laced with remorse - all really different facets of the same concept. Heck, you can cram all three into the same plot! Villain does something unspeakable to a little girl who turns into a monster, and now protagonist has a mission to punish the villain, and is faced with a moral dilemma of potentially having to put down the girl as well.
Exactly how the concept is employed is not as important as the fact that gamers are starting to get rather desensitized to the plights of virtual little girls.

True, but honestly, there’s nothing else left. We’ve subtlety villainized everything in our society, created partisan divisions about nearly every aspect of our moral compass. Purity is an obsolete term. Innocence now applies only to children and small cute animals.

To effectively outline the plight of regular people to our desensitized generation requires a ton of didacticism, which a videogame has less time & room to convey. I wish more developers would hire qualified writers to make it so, but that doesn't seem to be the trend of the industry. So they choose the little girl route instead, one that gives an immediate visual representation of relatable innocence. We the people are just as guilty of allowing the media to run with the idea of sympathy for children. Even today there’s an example of how ridiculous it’s gotten: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/070518/world/international_portugal_girl_media_dc

[kabumon77]

http://www.xbox-attitude.com/images/galerie/1147/.resized/4_1146223797.jpg


is this a big daddy?
:confused: :confused:

[37inf.div.]

I got in a discusion of would you kill for your self or anothers family It's interesting I could probubaly do it if i was the one to do the harvest ( the one to pull the trigger ) ironicly i feel uncomftorable with my chareter doing it. I just thaught of this why is it difrent to kill the big daddy what have they done wrong they have only done what a secret service oficer dose protect some one. They deserve to live more than the ls in my opinion even thaugh it will be harder to make the decision to kill or save the ls's

[Nias Wolf]

The idea is that you can save the LS, to make them human again. The BD is to far gone.

Oh, and after you have a giamt monster put a huge drill through your face, you wont have as much compasion. :D

[Annihilatus]

'Good' and 'Bad' are nonexistant
Subjective terms.

[revengematron3]

Bah, morality shmorality. Gotta get thinking. Why are LS all same age? where are teenage LS, where are their parents, why do they have this unique ability to process the stuff? Why can't someone genetically self-modify to do same exact thing? Suck Adam from corpses and transform into usable form?

LS aren't children, they aren't human. They are biobots specifically engineered for the task. They could be made to look like slimy green spiders with tentacles, but instead, the creator did the smart thing and created a package designed to give max psychological block to the most likely predator - civilized humans that were until recently populatimg the place.

The system is brilliant. To an Adam hunter, LS is the primary target, primary damage recipient, which allows BD to land the first strike on the offender. And should offender target BD first, LS has time to escape. Small frail simple LS is easier to repair or reproduce than a massive BD with its armor and weapons. LS appearance as child is the first line of defense. Prospect of facing a BD is second. A smart hunter realizes that LS looks are but a clever camo to give pause to 'intellectuals' - and ignores it, instead weighing potential Adam gain vs what will be used up to deal with the BD.

Gotta say, this whole 'little girl' thing is getting a bit overused in games.

LS were actual girls, but then Tenenbaum(I raped the spelling, I know) genetically inserted slugs into them that made them able to collect and recycle Adam. I'm gonna believe that Tenenbaum(raped spelling) is telling the truth, and the fact that they can be turned back into humans also helps with this. As for why Little Girls, it's probably got to due with their "physiology" which make them the perfect hosts for the slugs.

As for the invincibility thing, it's QUITE easy to just grab a LS and harvest them, thus killing them. They're completely defenseless, so they need a Big Daddy to stop anyone from getting near her.

[v.dog]

'Good' and 'Bad' are nonexistant
Subjective terms.Just remember that the next time someone steals your stuff. :p

[jokerthesplicer]

theres actually a positive side to killing little girls in a game. i mean to those who hates them they can just drain their hatred in the game instead of reality......thats why i wanted to see the little sisters cut open in order to save my sanity.