Addiction vs Personal Responsiblity

[nmrahde]

So I was bored at work and read an article on CNN about a support group for addicts of online adult entertainment who were trying to cope with this "addiction" because it was ruining their family lives and religious principles.

...but at some point shouldn't you or your family say "That's not an addiction, you just have crappy self-control?"

Example: If I'm late for work because I was playing video games, or hung over, or looking at pron, whatever I accept that it was my actions or inaction that made me late for work. I don't try to pin it on some addiction to Command and Conquer.

Just wondering how many others here agree with me, disagree with me, hate command and conquer.

[v.dog]

So I was bored at work and read an article on CNN about a support group for addicts of online adult entertainment who were trying to cope with this "addiction" because it was ruining their family lives and religious principles.

...but at some point shouldn't you or your family say "That's not an addiction, you just have crappy self-control?"You can't always draw that line, some people are truely addicted. Often these things do start of as poor self-control but become addiction as the action-reward paths become hardwired in the brain. It can get a lot worse if the action is done to compensate for a perceived failing in their lives; once (if) they see their behaviour as abnormal, they may be further driven down that path in trying to compensate for the shame and guilt the action itself causes. And that, my friend, is a very bad place to be.

I do agree tho', that we are overly quick to to diagnose (and medicate) personal flaws as syndromes instead of trying to build character, self-control, and self-esteem in people. I imagine a lot of kids with ADD are just just high on sugar and caffine, and their parents haven't taught them to be disciplined in paying attention (or other areas of their lives for that matter).

[Jeff]

This is going to sound a bit cold and callous perhaps, but I feel one of the main reasons your seeing so many kids with ADD/ADHD disorders being diagnosed is that they have far too much freedom with too few consequences now-a-days. When I was younger if I did something stupid and my parents were around to witness it, or here about it later, I would be promptly smacked in the face. After that I associated a negative behaviour with a very real negative consequence (I'm sorry but time-outs and talking to's will not be considered as "real" negative consequences in this sense). I can agree that there are definately parents who take this style of discipline way too far, but regardless of whether or not you legislate the action and try to ween people off of "capital punishment" those who are inclined to severely beat their children, are going to severely beat their children. Making it illegal for mom to spank little Joey when he's acting like an autistic chimpanzee fired up on crack in the mall is just telling little Joey that he's in control.

More well disciplined kids would mean more well disciplined adults.

For the adults that don't fall into the vein of having missed that crucial part of their child-hood I do have another theory but I don't want to cram too much into this one post.

[gughunter]

I figure if kids weren't meant to be spanked, they wouldn't have built-in padding.

[D'Sparil]

@Jeff- You have some very, very real and valid points. I'm 24, and I have a 14 year old brother. When I was young and misbehaved, I got whacked on my behind or maybe off the side of my head. Needless to say I turned out alright.. I don't steal, rape, kill, abuse, deal drugs, skip paying taxes, moleste, or in general am not a blemish on the face of society. I was never BEATEN however, and there is a line but its not too fine... I'm sure its not to hard to figure out that a smack isn't taking your belt off or kicking the **** out of your children. AND now that I'm older I am thankful that they did. My little brother grew up just after in the age of "enlightenment" and by 13 had been arrested in a scandel involving gunpowder and some knucklehead friends of his in school (they weren't going to do anything but kids are dumb, and undisciplined kids are dumb AND fearless)... and by 14 had been caught with weed and alchohol... which is ridiculous. I won't go off on a super liberal rant about how normally I wouldn't care about either... EXCEPT 14 is just plain too young... your brain isn't even devoloped enough for you to make an informed decision on such things.... and well, neither one of these times did my Dad lay a hand on him, and he will probally end up getting involved again because there are no consequences... or rather consequences that actually mean anything... The only thing my Dad's done with him is punch a hole in the wall one time, but thats it. So take it for what its worth, but I agree and thats a real life example.

[Redraf]

I'm inclined to agree and disagree. I feel like it some situations, capital punishment is a good idea, but different kids need to be raised different ways. My brother is 19, he turned out fine and went through the teenage years easy. He was never beaten, spanked, hit, etc. My sister on the other hand is turning out very, very badly. She is 16, shes moved out because she wants to avoid rules. She flunked out of school and she now has a job annoying people as a telemarketer (I really do love my sister, but its true).

I'm still fourteen, so I don't know how I'll turn out. All I know is that there are just some good and some bad kids. It just happens.

[LowEnergyCycle]

As a personal note, and without wanting to delve very deep into it (I'm not typing this out for any sympathy... I'm not Emo:D), I was addicted to cocaine for a coupla years, starting at 19.

I was always brought up to avoid drugs, I wouldn't say I had a terrible upbringing, and there weren't really any underlying issues that forced my hand into it. And for the longest time I actually enjoyed getting totally ratted.

Eventually, it was nobody but myself who told me that I couldn't continue like this, and I managed to force myself (with a vast amount of difficulty, I may add) to quit the stuff. And in all fairness, I wouldn't go back on any of it. The whole experience has taught me more about myself than anything else ever could. I know the limits of my self-control, I know how strong I can be if I really try, I know how much of a fool I was to start and how amazing I was to stop. I'm a different person for it, but I'm certainly a better person over all.

I can also sympathise with anybody who suffers from any addiction: for the most part you don't see it as a problem at all, it's just something that you do. And when you finally realise the problem, it has become so ingrained in your person and your life that - chemical reliance or not - it's become psychological. It's like a Super-Habit. And kicking that habit is like trying to kick something like Obsessive Compulsive Disorder - hellishly difficult.

[a rabid chicken]

Redraf, do you mean corporeal punishment? Capital punishment is the death penalty. Corporeal punishment is physically hurting kids as punishment.

[Hatesink]

It's difficult to say. There are people who have answers to this question (I'm not one of them). I'm guessing gaming can be a kind of dependency. For it to be an addiction it would have to have some kind of physical pull or physical hold on the individual, but I have read somewhere that video games (or at least certain types of video games) can alter a player's brain chemistry, which means it may be possible to be addicted to games in ways similar to those of people who are addicted to sex.

The extent to which self-control is an effective deterrent is I guess always going to vary from person to person based on their disposition and their circumstances.

I don't consider myself addicted to games (although I do play a lot of them). Am I dependent on games? Possibly. They're my reason for getting up in the morning. I suffer quite badly with depression and BioShock (amongst other games) is something to look forward to. I can defer various thoughts, feelings, things, whilst waiting for it. Is that a good thing or is it a bad thing?

[Jeff]

my fault on the first mention of "capital" punishment vs. corporeal punishment. I started the mistake ball rolling.

[nmrahde]

I guess it's more the difference between saying "I don't want to change this" versus "I can't change this"

Occasionally playing video games or various other things make me late for work. If it's a really good game I may be late several days in a row. But I accept that I choose not to change this behavior, I don't say "Man I'm late for work again I wish I could change that."

I just think more and more people are too anxious to choose the second option rather than fess up to the first.

Edit: Oh yeah and 'grats to hatesink (i keep thinking that's something you'd find on an "evil mech" btw) for ascending to the next level.

[Redraf]

Redraf, do you mean corporeal punishment? Capital punishment is the death penalty. Corporeal punishment is physically hurting kids as punishment.

Oh, I know what I said....Kill the non-believers!

[nmrahde]

For example right now I'm seriously considering staying home from work and playing video games.

Though to be fair that has more to do with my distaste for work than my love of video games.

It's not really an example at all I guess :(

[Hatesink]

I thought I was addicted to videogames, but it seems Twilight Princess has cured me of it. ;)

[nmrahde]

I cured my VG addiction with an ever growing addiction to comics...

Boy this methodone's good stuff! ;)

Edit: I hate those two people who voted for option 3:mad:

[Hatesink]

I'm just turning into a YouTube junky (sold all my comics to pay for computer games. My whole Groo collection including specials and Pacific issues :o)

[Hatesink]

I guess this is supposed to be a thread about games, but anyways. I've been given tablets to take to combat an illness that I'm supposed to have and I might as well be taking LSD every night. I'm supposed to continue the course but it feels like chopping off my arm to cure a hang-nail. I don't know what the hell it is they think must be going on in my head but they may as well draw little yellow suns on all of the tablets. I feel like I'm dropping a couple of microdots every night.

Every time I see one of my psychiatrists or go for another assessment they ask me all kinds of questions about my perceptions and such, and I keep telling them no, I don't have anything like that, but now I've started taking these pills I'm getting a lot of what they've been asking me about. I'm supposed to be responsible for myself and keep taking the tablets but I didn't take my last dose because I want to come down for a bit.

I talked about synethstesia in my last session but my psychiatrist's from Iceland and doesn't really understand what I'm talking about. This was the result. A paragraph in a follow-up letter: "reported being better in some ways. However, he reported that he is suffering from some strange thoughts, in terms of feeling that colours are attached to meanings". Also, I'm hanging weights every day— doing my PE exercises, which I've been doing for two and a half years and which I do almost all day every day and which they (my psychiatrists) don't seem to believe actually work (what the hell do they think I've been doing it for for the last two and a half years?) Doing it for that long with no results isn't madness, it's idiocy. My results are fantastic.

Anyway, I'm going to exercise personal responsibility and not take these pills, and speak to one of my therapists today and see what I can do about trying to talk some sense into them...

...Mysteries of the mind.

[nmrahde]

...I don't see the addiction angle there but go ahead ;) You prolly shouldn't listen to me though - last time I was in a place where they wanted to diagnose me I just told them all the lies they wanted to hear (including "Yes I'll take those pills").

Then once I got away from the doctors I stopped taking the pills and dealt with my problems on my phone (I'm still here so I was more or less successful I think?). My friends were definitely a big help though. While most of them have no clue about my various problems, usually they can make me laugh enough to fix everything (I hang out with a bunch of crazed bastards - I highly recommend it to anyone :D )

[Raveness]

That's some pretty crazy stuff (no pun intended). My only experience with quacks is when they were trying to get me off a substance. I managed to do so by just going cold turkey, and avoiding the little pill friends they prescribed.

I guess my fear of pharmaceutical manipulation was greater than that of not getting my next hit.

...and I agree with nmrahde. Friends may not know the inns and outs of the real problem, but they love you enough to see through any ordeal.

[Hatesink]

Thanks raveness, I don't have any friends, but it's a nice sentiment. ;)

You know, you guys really should take your meds.

I guess it's about responsibility in as much as should I keep taking the pills. Addiction? Who knows, but if one thing's for certain— I'm tripping. It's like the Placebo meds video but constant and covering everything.

I'm getting visual aberrations and weird tactile sensations, as though my skin's slipping off, that kind of thing. (I was on my way to therapy and I saw a girl who was moving as though she had casters on the souls of her shoes. I think she actually did, but for a while I couldn't tell). That kind of thing. It's a little difficult for me to type also. For some reason I seem to be wanting to type in the Dvorák typing scheme (querty is just too lame), but I can't remember Dvorák :confusion:

My therapist said I should continue taking the pills and that I should be able to adjust to them. Apparently it might only be temporary. I'm taking very powerful mind-altering drugs and have to be patient while it all takes effect and 'alters my mind' basically, and I'm very tired because I haven't slept.

But hey I love tripping, and although I promised myself I'd never do it again because of how bad it is for you, I guess I can let myself enjoy this. Apologies if that's really weird.

[nmrahde]

Weirdo:p

Why don't I take what they prescribed to me? Part of it is not buying into the whole "there's a pill for everything" bs. I don't need any damn Soma.

Most of it is pride. I'm too proud and stubborn to allow myself to need things that aren't me (although in the case of friends I'm working my hardest to overcome that part), the side effect is while it prevents me from taking a drink even if I feel I need it - it also prevents me from taking prescription drugs in a lot of cases too unless it's overwhelmingly obvious that I do need them (like the staph infection I had)

Aside from crazy ass friends that do **** so stupid it forces you to cheer up, have you tried altering your diet? I noticed in the past few years that if I just eat junk food and soda my mood becomes horribly unpredictable. When I eat the right amount of the right nutrients though every thing evens out. Music sometimes helps but I'm a metal fan so there's not a lot of uplifting stuff in that genre - which is why I also listen to funk. Who can be down when groovin to some George Clinton?

Edit: Of course as I type this I'm listening to Cradle of Filth:eek: so maybe you shouldn't listen to me...;)
Edit, the Second Coming: On the addiction note its new comics day...time to find out how much I owe my dealer...
Edit, the Final Reckoning: Thanks raveness, I don't have any friends, but it's a nice sentiment. ;) *In the booming voice of Unicron* "Then it pleases me to be the first."

However I do not have the power to give you an armada of Sweeps or your own ship, you'll have to get those yourself. Now find the Autobot Matrix...and destroy it!

[Hatesink]

Why don't I take what they prescribed to me? Part of it is not buying into the whole "there's a pill for everything" bs. I don't need any damn Soma.Dude— the stuff I'm on, probably has a street value. You should try it ;)

I think I'm enjoying this buzz way too much. This stuffs better than acid (no strychnine)

I'm too proud and stubborn to allow myself to need things that aren't meI'm curious— what things do you class as being you? :curious:

(although in the case of friends I'm working my hardest to overcome that part), Are there only certain types of people you hang out with?

unless it's overwhelmingly obvious that I do need them (like the staph infection I had)By implication doesn't that mean that it's obvious that you need to take drugs, just not quite pressing enough to take action?

I've not really altered my diet, my diet's pretty bad, especially considering I work out.

Music sometimes helps but I'm a metal fan so there's not a lot of uplifting stuff in that genre - which is why I also listen to funk. Who can be down when groovin to some George Clinton?This cheers me up a lot, check it out (if you like metal you'll probably like it (I love it)): Rammstein Sonne (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz0_BgwOWl8)

My style of gameplay is Optimus Prime (as close to perfect efficiency as possible (I'm pretty compulsive that way)) so I kind of think of myself in those terms. ;):)

[Adam Nuhfer]

Good thing this isn't a thread on System Shock addiction. :D

It's a fine line between addiction and ones personal wants/desires
Ones wants could be considered by another an addiction. It's mostly a matter of personal preference.

[Hatesink]

...and I agree with nmrahde. Friends may not know the inns and outs of the real problem, but they love you enough to see through any ordeal.You're lucky to have such good friends :o

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/4108/floggingadeadhorsecg1.gif

[Jeff]

Personally I have a tendency to lean toward believing that addiction is personal responsibility, granted there are cases where people can be become addicted to substances or anything really without ever noticing it happening, but the overwhelming majority of cases I've personally witnessed have been people fully realizing the risk of their behaviour, making comments on the habit forming more and more and yet continueing on purely of their own accord until they are full blown addicts. Any person of sane mind with the ability to comprehend simple logic can easily moderate their use of any substance or anything to the point where the risk of addiction becomes moot.

A little note to that, the way I said all that is in the form of a sweeping generalization to which I must add that I fully accept the existance of special cases, however I do not accept the existance of "addictive personalities".

On a side note I've never taken anything prescribed to me that I do not fully understand the need for and exactly how it works. As much as I see the need for psychiatry and realize it's benefits I don't trust the industry. When I was younger I was arrested and charged with a few things (unlawful entry, mischief under $5000 and assualt) one of the courts decisions was that I would need to undergo a psychiatric evaluation due to their assertion that my anger was far beyond my control. I sat with a few psychiatrists for hours and their assertion agreed completely with the court, my anger was beyond my control, my "fuse" was far too short to be considered "healthy and normal" and under those pretenses I was in all likelyhood a danger to myself and others without treatment.

Several medications were recomended and I was ordered as part of my year long probation to see a local psychiatrist 3 times a month (if I remember correctly) for anger management. I refused to take any medication and after going twice to this psychiatrist I realized I was leaving the building far more angry than when I entered. My decision was basically "nuts to this, I know what pisses me off and I know what calms me down, that's all I need" so instead of taking various medications that would've left a lasting imprint on my mind I decided that if I became angry to the point of losing control I'd either seek out a friend or smoke a joint or do both.

that was about 6 years ago and since then I've grown so much on my own that I can sit back and laugh at how I behaved back then. My main problem with psychiatry is that personalities and factors other than problems with the brain itself are often discounted. I was a 16 year old angsty teen with a young son, My relationship with his mother was completely falling apart and I had no support from my parents in regards to anything mentioned in this sentence. Yet instead of factoring those blatantly obvious factors in it was decided that I had no idea how to control my temper, and that my level of anger and what it took to set it all off was beyond "normal".

I refuse to believe there will ever be a mental problem (short of massive brain trauma) afflicting me that I can't solve on my own.

Sorry for the "big-up" to marijuana mixed in there, but to be perfectly frank the benefits of marijuana are often swept under the rug as they don't fit so well into government sponsored propoganda ads and marketing warning of the "dangers" of weed.

[nmrahde]

Dude— the stuff I'm on, probably has a street value. You should try it ;) I think I'm enjoying this buzz way too much. This stuffs better than acid (no strychnine)I actually much prefer the adrenaline rush of the mosh pit. Fight or flight kicks in good sometimes (especially with my habit of wearing hawaiian shirts in them - hey we cant ALL be wearing black)

I'm curious— what things do you class as being you?Anything external like this keyboard, or that pen, etc.

Are there only certain types of people you hang out with?People with senses of humor as twisted as mine (you'd like 'em). Other than that I have friends from all walks of life.

By implication doesn't that mean that it's obvious that you need to take drugs, just not quite pressing enough to take action?Somebody else said I needed to take the drugs. The fact that I haven't taken the drugs and I'm still alive (and well which would be the key part) mean I didn't and don't need 'em.

I've not really altered my diet, my diet's pretty bad, especially considering I work out.That could be having an effect. I used to walk to work and eat one horrible meal a day (both because I was broke). Although I lost a lot of wait and was less flabby then I was a lot more unstable. Now I eat lots more meat and potatoes and things and less candy bars and soda. It's led to a rounder, yet more jovial me. :)

This cheers me up a lot, check it out (if you like metal you'll probably like it (I love it))Love that video. Their videos for Amerika (http://youtube.com/watch?v=4w9EksAo5hY) and Keine Lust (http://youtube.com/watch?v=7IlMMYLtUhk) rock as well. Sadly I've never seen them in concert :(. Here's another funny video Tunak Tunak Tun (http://youtube.com/watch?v=7IlMMYLtUhk)

My style of gameplay is Optimus Prime (as close to perfect efficiency as possible (I'm pretty compulsive that way)) so I kind of think of myself in those terms. Sounds more like Shockwave to me;). Now ready the space bridge!