Rebel sentiment calculation?

[Desmo]

First I'd like to say that it's a great game. Very true to the original.

Now for my questions. In my last game I had five settlements, three statesmen each, all the bell producing buildings etc. My rebel sentiment was ranging from 59% to 100%. Still, my total rebel sentiment never moved above 44%, why is that?

I guess all units outside the settlement (ships, wagons, military) are also included in the sentiment calculation. Because I had a settlement (with 100% rebel sentiment, mind you) overproducing food to provide colonists for my army. As soon as I stopped producing growth there my total rebel sentiment started rising and I could finally declare war 10 rounds before the end of the game (I lost ofc).

Fair enough, I have no problem with the fact that rebel sentiment decreases when you add fresh colonists to a settlement, but what if it's a colonist born in a 100% rebel settlement?

I have the same setup in my current game with two settlements producing lots of food to spawn new colonists. It's sad that I have to stop building up my army to be able to start the war...

Or am I missing something?

[Fatallight]

I've noticed the same thing. All my settlements will have over 50% rebel sentiment (Some with even 100%) and yet I will only have ~45% total.

It's pretty annoying considering the first time I noticed this I didn't plan on having to wait even longer for the total sentiment to reach 50%

[-Archangel-]

I noticed this as well. I do not think it is OK as it is.
The game is out of balance completely. As end of the game was coming I was planning to rebel around 50 turns until the end of game, so I started to raise my rebel sentiment completely by buying all the needed buildings (I already had all the important Congress members) and putting more people in the city hall.

It all raised ok turn by turn until I got close to 50% sentiment when I was building my armies as fast as possible (which was still only 1/3 of what the King had), but my rebel sentiment slowed down so much it was funny. At about 44% it needed a few turns for only 1 %. So in the end I only got to 50% at about 20 turns until the end.
I must say this sucks big time. And I was playing on Easiest difficulty :(

[Dale]

Units outside of your colonies (soldiers, dragoons, pioneers, in-transit) are also counted against your total rebel %. So if you have 4 cities at 100%, and 10 total population and 10 total soldiers, your total sentiment will only be 50% (only 50% of the population is in colonies and converted). Add your soldiers to the colonies to allow your statesmen to convert them. :)

[-Archangel-]

Units outside of your colonies (soldiers, dragoons, pioneers, in-transit) are also counted against your total rebel %. So if you have 4 cities at 100%, and 10 total population and 10 total soldiers, your total sentiment will only be 50% (only 50% of the population is in colonies and converted). Add your soldiers to the colonies to allow your statesmen to convert them. :)
But once I remove them does the total sentiment then drop?

[Dale]

Yeah I'm pretty sure it does.

[-Archangel-]

So the system is still stupid and detracts from fun gameplay.

[Desmo]

Units outside of your colonies (soldiers, dragoons, pioneers, in-transit) are also counted against your total rebel %. So if you have 4 cities at 100%, and 10 total population and 10 total soldiers, your total sentiment will only be 50% (only 50% of the population is in colonies and converted). Add your soldiers to the colonies to allow your statesmen to convert them. :)

The biggest problem for me is that colonists that spawn because of growth will have 0% rebel sentiment EVEN IF he is born in a settlement with 100% rebel sentiment.

This makes growth undesirable and seems very illogical.

[Dale]

Then settle the colonist and convert them. Easy. :)

I see your point, but I disagree that growth is undesirable. In the preparation for WoI any growth you can get is needed, whether from Europe or food growth. Any growth becomes part of the army.

[Desmo]

Then settle the colonist and convert them. Easy. :)

I see your point, but I disagree that growth is undesirable. In the preparation for WoI any growth you can get is needed, whether from Europe or food growth. Any growth becomes part of the army.

I disagree too that growth is undesirable - that's my whole point. :)

I had one game, where I had two settlements producing massive amounts of food for the sole purpose of spawning colonists for my army. Both these settlements had 100% rebel sentiment. But I had to stop these from growing because my total rebel sentiment never reached 50%.

Sure, I could have founded new settlements and put my "spawn" there with some statesmen to keep them "true to the cause". But my point is that they should already be rebels - their parents where rebels, their teachers where rebels, they grew up in a society of rebels... :)

Ofc...maybe all my newborn colonists are really pimply faced teenagers rebelling against their parents by becoming loyal to the king...

EDIT: Btw Dale, I just saw your thread on the patch mod. Great work! And I like your thoughts about providing rebel sentiment to troops outside the settlement.

[MrEos]

Although I haven't played the game up to that point yet, from what I hear, the calculations appear to be correct.

You have to figure that your standing military before declaring independance represents the will of the King regardless of who the soldier was born too.

How many soldiers who joined the army that you know of would disobey their commanders orders today even if they knew his command was wrong or downright evil when threatened with penalties of being a traitor, can't say that I know for sure what they did with all the traitors back then.. but I assume most would have taken a bullet.

In essence you oppress your own people by enforcing your kings will with the military. With lesser military to keep people in check, they become more bold.

Then when independance is declared those soldiers seeing the general populace grow a pair finally gather the will to be real men themselves.



-Do you kill in the name of God, or the in the name of your mortal leader?

[-Archangel-]

Coming from a country that had its revolution now so long ago (18 years) I can tell you that most if not all military personnel join the civilians at the moment of declaration of independence.

[schlub]

-Do you kill in the name of God, or the in the name of your mortal leader?

Mortal Leader as they are actually able to lead and provide insight on the battlefield. Much evil had been wrought killing 'in the name of "god" '. Throughout history more and bloodier wars have been fought in the name of a "god" than for any other reason. Pretty amusing to slaughter other people in the name of a man-made imagination. My imaginary friend is better than yours, now die unbeliever!!

But anyhoo, in terms of colonisation I have no standing army when I declare independence... then magically I convert my stockpiles of guns and horses into a raging army overnight :)

[ArmySyko]

So how can you tell who has the greatest rebel sentiment when you get to the War for Independence? I'd love to be able to send in the adamant followers first and then the hesitant units afterward.

I've made it to the War twice and been beaten down both times. I'll admit that I've been outmanned both times by nearly 1.5:1 and I thought Ethan Allen would be the great difference-maker.

A-S

[Surly Settler]

Hello,

Like many, I enjoyed this game greatly in it's DOS version, and was delighted to see it return.

Unfortunately, I'm running into the same problem discussed in this thread, namely, the failure of Rebel Sentiment to rise like it did in the earlier version.

It seems like if I take citizens from a 100% rebel town and put them into another town, they lose their rebel status during the transfer, and actually lower the sentiment in their destination town!

One thing I seem to recall was that the original game kept a stat for each colonist that you could see on-screen that labeled him as either a rebel or loyalist to the king. Can anyone confirm this?

The new game seems like a mess in regards to rebel sentiment. And it's a terrible problem even at the easiest setting, although those should not be related issues.

This should be fixed, or at least offer a "Classic" option setting for rebel sentiment calculation.

[ArmySyko]

Hey There,

I can't remember a stat that would tell you whether a colonist was 30% or 80% settled on independence. I'm trying to remember when I moved a pioneer from a 100% SoL colony to found a new one, what was my starting SoL membership when it was just him? Hmm. . .

It would feel like a mess if I had to take a colonist that was 100%, turn him in to a soldier which would revert him to 0%, and then rebuild it by just having him fortified on the outside of the colony wall. That does seem like some weird engineering.

A-S

[CrazedZooChimp]

Hey There,

I can't remember a stat that would tell you whether a colonist was 30% or 80% settled on independence. I'm trying to remember when I moved a pioneer from a 100% SoL colony to found a new one, what was my starting SoL membership when it was just him? Hmm. . .

It would feel like a mess if I had to take a colonist that was 100%, turn him in to a soldier which would revert him to 0%, and then rebuild it by just having him fortified on the outside of the colony wall. That does seem like some weird engineering.

A-S

I also don't remember a specific colonist rating (at least shown), but definitely recall that growth within a colony would not hurt the sentiment rating (but imports from Europe would). I swear that it worked where people born in a colony started with the colonies sentiment (and so growth didn't kill your loyalty). And same with founding new colonies with people from existing ones. Oh well, hopefully Dale can include this in one of his unofficial patches:) . Or, y'know, we get an official one...

[kaspergade]

If a colony has a rebel sentiment of 100%, the the colonist born in the colony should not drag the rebel sentiment down, its ridiculous! They would obviously have the same feeling as their parents, INDEPENDENCE!