Possible Clarification on "Atlas", Patrick, and Moira

[MrBongo]

I'm currently on another playthrough through Rapture- most likely my fourth visit, now -and found that something struck me as odd at the entrance to the Fisheries. Atlas had just contacted you on the short-wave radio and dropping suggestions regarding how Ryan was solely responsible for the demise of Rapture. ;)

Having completed the storyline many times, I found this to be- of course -a very ironic statement on his part. However, one of the last lines he states are "A good man died that day in Rapture", or something to that effect. Now given the context in which he said it I assume it was in reference to either Ryan or himself, with death being figurative rather than literal. However, what he said next I found to be really striking...

"A good man died that day in Rapture."
"He left his family in a Bathesphere in the bottom of Fountain's Fisheries."
(Again, not word-for-word citation, but fairly accurate.)

When Atlas said this, I automatically assumed it was in reference to Atlas and his family. Of course, those who have played through the game know that Atlas was a fabrication of Fountain's, but I've always held the belief that Atlas might have been a real person at one time. That perhaps his family, too, were real people- real enough to motivate Ryan to attack the Bathesphere later on. I know that there is a play entitled Patrick and Moira, but I'm not convinced that Fountain based his "family" off of these fictional characters.

My theory is that Fountain most likely killed this "Atlas" fellow, adopted his looks and accent, and essentially replaced him to disappear in Rapture from Andrew Ryan. He then kept his "family" as hostages until their purpose was completed in motivating you to kill Ryan.

Discuss.

[Atlas the Fisherman]

The exact quote is: "Now you've had the pleasure of Andrew Ryan's company. He's the one who built this place, and he's the one who run it into the ground. Nobody knows exactly what happened. Maybe he went mad. Maybe the power got to him. Maybe he decided he just didn't like people. Whichever way you slice it, good men died. Me family's in a submarine hidden in the foundation of Fontaine Fisheries. I'll meet you there."

I think Atlas is referring to the fact that due to Andrew Ryan's "tyrannical" reign over Rapture, many innocent people that lived there had died. He was basically trying to play off of Jack's hatred of Ryan, obviously. Trying to make it look like Ryan was behind the whole destruction and war in Rapture.

As for the whole thing about Atlas being a real person at one point, I tend to disagree. When Fontaine makes his big reveal to you, he says: "There ain't no Atlas, kid. Never was." Moria and Patrick are merely just products of Fontaine's imagination, as there is a poster for the play near Atlas' Headquarters. There doesn't seem to be many other posters for plays outside Fort Frolic, so it is obvious that the game's developers wanted you to make note of that one. Fontaine even later admits to making them up, while you're in the Proving Grounds, saying: " I really wound you up with that wife and child bit: 'Oh, me poor Moira. Ah, me wee baby Patrick.' Maybe one day I'll get me a real family. They play well with the suckers."

There is another topic going around on here, about the identity of Moira and Patrick during the Civil War with Ryan. You can check that out for other info on them.

[doomgiver]

Lmao. Fontaine didn't kill any person named "Atlas". As a person who watches too much CSI and crime documentaries... the picture of Atlas we see on the radio (I like to call them passport pictures... sort of like my avatar/icon) IS actually Atlas/Fontaine. All Fontaine did was grow some hair and spoke with an Irish accent. It is also suggested that he underwent facial surgery, though the pictures of Atlas and Fontaine look ALMOST exactly alike. The shape of the ears, the eyes... (that's something a surgeon doesn't change)... the only noticable difference is that Atlas sort of looks older and Fontaine looks younger which is because the picture of Fontaine could be taken when he first arrived in Rapture 12 years before the game starts. And the Atlas photo is taken when Fontaine "dies" and reemerges as Atlas and took a new photo. All the stress marks on his face and his poofy hairs gives away the detail that Fontaine has been through a lot of work to reach his goal.

[UnrealFatal1ty]

why would you just ruin the suprise for this poor fellow meany

[doomgiver]

I didn't surprise him. He says he is on his 4th playthrough.

[Atlas the Fisherman]

Lmao. Fontaine didn't kill any person named "Atlas". As a person who watches too much CSI and crime documentaries... the picture of Atlas we see on the radio (I like to call them passport pictures... sort of like my avatar/icon) IS actually Atlas/Fontaine. All Fontaine did was grow some hair and spoke with an Irish accent. It is also suggested that he underwent facial surgery, though the pictures of Atlas and Fontaine look ALMOST exactly alike. The shape of the ears, the eyes... (that's something a surgeon doesn't change)... the only noticable difference is that Atlas sort of looks older and Fontaine looks younger which is because the picture of Fontaine could be taken when he first arrived in Rapture 12 years before the game starts. And the Atlas photo is taken when Fontaine "dies" and reemerges as Atlas and took a new photo. All the stress marks on his face and his poofy hairs gives away the detail that Fontaine has been through a lot of work to reach his goal.

I agree with everything you just said! As for growing the hair, Fontaine might of used the FreshHair tonic. It was the only advertisement with "Frank" instead of "Mary", so it seems like they put that one in there for a reason. Personally, I always thought Atlas looked younger than Fontaine. Maybe it was because of the hair ;)

[doomgiver]

Haha, I remember those. Maybe I should upload a new video on YouTube that has the advertisements and Rapture Reminders lol When I played through Point Prometheus and heard that FreshHair ad, I couldn't help but chuckle. I was thinking it pointed a reference to Fontaine since he was bald :p Now I'm not saying the guy in the ad is actually Fontaine, but it occurred to me that Andrew Ryan and co sort of made it as a reference to him as a sort of slapstick insult. Kind of like making fun and mocking the guy.

To me Atlas looked older than Fontaine because of the stress marks on his face and that cleft chin of his. Fontaine had more smooth almost 'baby face' skin and Atlas looks like he hasn't been catching his Zs on more than a few occassions. Which is believable because Atlas has spent hours and hours rallying up people and such. He's not gonna rest until he has control of Rapture and/or Andrew Ryan dead.

[FtRapture]

Whos Fountain?

[Atlas the Fisherman]

Whos Fountain?

...head...by Ayn Rand ;)



To me Atlas looked older than Fontaine because of the stress marks on his face and that cleft chin of his. Fontaine had more smooth almost 'baby face' skin and Atlas looks like he hasn't been catching his Zs on more than a few occassions. Which is believable because Atlas has spent hours and hours rallying up people and such. He's not gonna rest until he has control of Rapture and/or Andrew Ryan dead.

hahahahahaha...I don't know why, but that whole paragraph made me laugh the whole way through :D

[doomgiver]

Well I'm glad you got a laugh out of it, Atlas. And hopefully it's just by my humorous choice of words and not my bad grammar :p

Anyways. You be the judge of these two pictures.

http://i35.tinypic.com/2wnbdwg.png

Smooth skinned face
No noticable blemish or stress mark
Ears are similar between Fontaine & Atlas
Shape of eyes similar between Fontaine & Atlas

http://i33.tinypic.com/2z53a0l.png

Noticable stress marks (cleft chin, etc)
Hair looks sloppy, don't think he bothered to comb
No mustache, but you can tell it's Fontaine

[Hector_Spector]

I wouldn't say the resemblance is uncanny, at least not at first glance I mean who ever suspected Atlas was anyone other than himself before the shocking revelation. I mean we had our suspicions no doubt, but the majority of us played into Atlas's hands. By looking at these pictures, Fontaine didn't really do much to become Atlas, I mean all it took was a quick shave, dab of some of the old FairHair Tonic, minor facial surgery and a change of accent. His eyes and ears are unchanged, apart from Atlas's eyes obviously being slightly closed. There expressions are also quite similar, although Fontaine's is more of a blank expression, perhaps at the request of the cameraman, same with driver's licenses these days, can't be smiling now can we?

[hackiavelli]

There is another topic going around on here, about the identity of Moira and Patrick during the Civil War with Ryan.
There is no Patrick and Moira. It was the name of a play/story like Romeo and Juliet or Tristan and Iseult.

[Gingerbeard]

There is no Patrick and Moira.

agreed, they were just a fabrication to fool Jack (and you) into thinking you were doing something noble.

[Atlas the Fisherman]

There is no Patrick and Moira. It was the name of a play/story like Romeo and Juliet or Tristan and Iseult.

I know that. I was just saying that there is another topic floating around on this board about their identity too.

[Syberz]

I think I know where "Atlas" got the idea for the name of his "wife" and "son".

There's a few of these posters around in Fort Frolic. I only noticed it during my 2nd playthrough.

http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/pp169/syberz/Poster.jpg

[Frank Fountaine]

Wow your sure late to the party!^^^...//

[Syberz]

I know, but since nobody bothered to put up a screenie of what they were talking about I figured it wouldn't hurt.

[Atlas the Fisherman]

I just realized something. Atlas claims that he came to Rapture looking for a better life for Moria and Patrick (implying he came down to Rapture with them) But he also tells you he took Moria on their first date to the Fighting McDonagh (implying that he met her after coming down to Rapture). Looks like Fontaine dropped the ball on this one :p

[Sullivan's Deputy]

I just realized something. Atlas claims that he came to Rapture looking for a better life for Moria and Patrick (implying he came down to Rapture with them) But he also tells you he took Moria on their first date to the Fighting McDonagh (implying that he met her after coming down to Rapture). Looks like Fontaine dropped the ball on this one :p Are you suggesting it is strange to fornicate with a woman and have a child with her before you met? 'tis an every day thing in my parts. :p

[Atlas the Fisherman]

Atlas and Moria - The story of sex before acquaintanship

[Atlas.]

^lol :p

I just realized something. Atlas claims that he came to Rapture looking for a better life for Moria and Patrick (implying he came down to Rapture with them) But he also tells you he took Moria on their first date to the Fighting McDonagh (implying that he met her after coming down to Rapture). Looks like Fontaine dropped the ball on this one :p
Yeah i noticed that. Fontaine seems to contradict himself quite a bit at times, have noticed a few other things he's said as well where he trips himself up lol

[Asherah]

Am I the only one who thinks that when Atlas says "Fontaine's dead...." he saids it with a little bit of Fontaine's accent?

[doomgiver]

You mean, Fontaine's "Bronx" accent. No. Atlas says "Fontaine's dead" with stress to emphasize the lie.

[BioShock Freak]

I just realized something. Atlas claims that he came to Rapture looking for a better life for Moria and Patrick (implying he came down to Rapture with them) But he also tells you he took Moria on their first date to the Fighting McDonagh (implying that he met her after coming down to Rapture). Looks like Fontaine dropped the ball on this one :p

Lol. I've heard his say that, never really caught it though. But yeah, he sure contradicted himself there. Lol.

Am I the only one who thinks that when Atlas says "Fontaine's dead...." he saids it with a little bit of Fontaine's accent?

Yeah, I noticed that too. That's not the only time though, there's also the time when he says "We'll find him, and we'll tear his heart out!" He says it with his accent there too. At times, you can kinda tell his accent. Just not as strong as his actual accent.
~Mari.

[Venom Wolf]

Actually when Fontaine said he'd been a chinaman for six months I thought I detected a bit of Atlas' accent there.

[Lord Weller]

Well I'm glad you got a laugh out of it, Atlas. And hopefully it's just by my humorous choice of words and not my bad grammar :p

Anyways. You be the judge of these two pictures.

And if these two pictures to combine it will receive following: :D
http://foto.rambler.ru/public/alexcossack666/3/atlas1_fontaine1_small/atlas1_fontaine1_small-web.jpg

It's the same face. :D But Atlas is more sweet for me than Fontaine. And I consider Fontaine looks older.
And why did Fontaine choose such names for his 'wife and child'? Did he have not enough imagination? Or was there any special sense?

[Cohen's Masterpiece]

There never was an atlas, like Fontaine said; "there ain't no Atlas kid, never was." I rest my case :cool:

[BioShock Freak]

Of course there was an Atlas. It was obviously Fontaine. But Atlas actually led an army of splicers. Atlas' men are the ones that crashed the New Year's party. Patrick and Moira were never real, but he was. It was Fontaine though, he changed his looks and everything. Got a fresh start. He says it in an Audio Diary.

The Longest Con:

Never play a man for the short con when you can play 'em for the long one. Atlas is the longest con of all. Ryan wanted Frank Fontaine Dead, I just gave him what he wanted. As Atlas, I got a new face, a clean record, and a fresh start. Now it's time to take back Rapture and-

Diane McClintock: ...Ryan did. I can't wait to tell Atlas. He'll be so pleased...

Frank Fontaine (As Atlas' voice): Uhh, Miss McClintock... what are you doing here? (Back to normal voice) Let me just turn this off... "

So there ya have it, Atlas was real. I now rest my case. :cool: Lol.
~Mari.

[Dr. Locke]

Well I'm glad you got a laugh out of it, Atlas. And hopefully it's just by my humorous choice of words and not my bad grammar :p

Anyways. You be the judge of these two pictures.

http://i35.tinypic.com/2wnbdwg.png

Smooth skinned face
No noticable blemish or stress mark
Ears are similar between Fontaine & Atlas
Shape of eyes similar between Fontaine & Atlas

http://i33.tinypic.com/2z53a0l.png

Noticable stress marks (cleft chin, etc)
Hair looks sloppy, don't think he bothered to comb
No mustache, but you can tell it's Fontaine


Wow. Thats incredibly interesting. I have never bothered to look closely at the profile pictures of Atlas and Fontaine. The resembalance is uncanny. And for the Fort Frolic poster titled Patrick and Moira, I can't believe I have never seen that. I guess clues to the fraudulant identity of Atlas were around us all along. Huh.

***

[BioShock Freak]

Wow. Thats incredibly interesting. I have never bothered to look closely at the profile pictures of Atlas and Fontaine. The resembalance is uncanny. And for the Fort Frolic poster titled Patrick and Moira, I can't believe I have never seen that. I guess clues to the fraudulant identity of Atlas were around us all along. Huh.

***

Yep. I didn't notice all of this til someone brought it up and posted those two pics. I don't think I saw the Patrick and Moira poster in Fort Frolic either. Interesting stuff, nonetheless, VERY interesting. There's so many things we're still learning about. Lol. Wonder what we'll uncover next. Lol.
~Mari.

[Lord Weller]

So there ya have it, Atlas was real. I now rest my case. :cool: Lol.
~Mari.
Atlas never was the real person. Atlas is the Fontaine's mask. Fontaine put on the mask (changed his hair, name and voice), but second person didn't appear.

[Lord Weller]

Wow. Thats incredibly interesting. I have never bothered to look closely at the profile pictures of Atlas and Fontaine. The resembalance is uncanny. And for the Fort Frolic poster titled Patrick and Moira, I can't believe I have never seen that. I guess clues to the fraudulant identity of Atlas were around us all along. Huh.
***
I think, a lot of people deluded a large difference of Fontaine and Atlas' voices. All listened a voice and didn't look closely a face. I've understood why for me Fontaine seems was older than Atlas. Fontaine’s voice belongs to the person is older than Atlas. It's true. Greg Baldwin is about 50, Karl Hanover is about 30.

[BioShock Freak]

What I am trying to say is that Atlas was an actual person, he was Fontaine. He changed his looks and became Atlas.

~Mari.

[Lord Weller]

By the way, I haven’t understood, how Atlas managed to spurt into popularity for such short time? Fontaine’s killed on September 12, 1958, and in some months Atlas already leaded Resistance. Nobody can explain why? It seems it was necessary to give new-Fontaine more time to achieve attention of people. Fontaine was popular with the common people because he built the asylums for poor. Atlas was a newcomer, nobody known. Why Bill McDonagh so liked Atlas that begged Mr. Ryan to hand Fontaine Futuristics over to Atlas' boys? Atlas made himself delightful to people. They believed him. Diane McClintock came under his spell. Was he a family man? Nobody saw his family. It seems, it was necessary to make these things more clearly.

[BioShock Freak]

That's a good question. As soon as Fontaine was gone, Atlas appeared pretty much out of nowhere. How can someone that no one's ever ever heard about come to be so powerful and well-known? There's so much we still don't know.
~Mari.

[Venom Wolf]

Well, if by this time people had spliced a lot, perhaps they were already struggling to remember everything that happened? Atlas appealed to the working class, and built an army of splicers. And we all know the splicers are pretty er.... deluded over the state of Rapture.

[Bioshocking123]

^ Yeah, for instance look at Hector Rodrigez, he still thinks Rapture is running, and that the service has gotten worse. And he was one of the more sane ones. It would have been fairly easy to assert control if you weren't a splicer. Atlas saw this, and decided not to spilce, to keep a cool head. :)

[Hector_Spector]

It's incredible how much depth there is to the story, and regarding Lord Weller's comment on how Atlas gained popularity so fast, I dug this up:

" Ryan takes down smuggling operation ... Fontaine and thugs killed in fiery shootout!" -- Headline, Rapture Standard, 9/12/58

Now that would have given "Atlas" a good three months to establish himself as the new opposition to combat Ryan, much like Fontaine did. It's not long considering, but he had already gave himself a head start and gathering followers wouldn't have been too difficult. I mean Ryan wasn't particularly popular at this stage, he was certainly tainting his image and permanently damaging his reputation to the point where even his most loyal of followers began to turn on him (like Bill McDonagh, Sullivan etc).

I was always curious as to how Fontaine actually "faked" his death, I mean if it was a "fiery shootout" then he must have left it very much to chance in hope that he could perhaps pose as dead in amongst his truly dead followers. But then surely they would pick up on that, or maybe by the term "fiery" they meant that Ryan's men used plasmids like Incinerate and therefore would make identifying the bodies near impossible. However, I'm not certain if Ryan's men adopted the use of plasmids at that stage. Guess it's all speculation it seems, would be nice if more light was shed on the subject.

[Lord Weller]

Well, if by this time people had spliced a lot, perhaps they were already struggling to remember everything that happened? Atlas appealed to the working class, and built an army of splicers. And we all know the splicers are pretty er.... deluded over the state of Rapture.
How did Atlas do it? He'd came and said: let's struggle against Ryan? And someone would decide he was Ryan's spy, as Kyburz and Pablo Navarro thought about Anya Andersdotter. And Atlas would be killed by Ryan's splicers. Not all people had spliced a lot. Someone managed to be in right mind. It's not enough to be nice-looking and have pleasant voice to be trusted. I would love to see an explanation in a movie or in a prequel.

[Lord Weller]

" Ryan takes down smuggling operation ... Fontaine and thugs killed in fiery shootout!" -- Headline, Rapture Standard, 9/12/58

I was always curious as to how Fontaine actually "faked" his death, I mean if it was a "fiery shootout" then he must have left it very much to chance in hope that he could perhaps pose as dead in amongst his truly dead followers. But then surely they would pick up on that, or maybe by the term "fiery" they meant that Ryan's men used plasmids like Incinerate and therefore would make identifying the bodies near impossible. However, I'm not certain if Ryan's men adopted the use of plasmids at that stage. Guess it's all speculation it seems, would be nice if more light was shed on the subject.
It's a mystery for me. :eek: When I saw this loading screen I thought Ryan decided to pretend that Fontaine had been killed to demonstrate his (Ryan) power in Rapture. I cannot imagine as it was possible to pretend dead and nobody from Ryan's group guessed to test pulse or something else - Fontaine's alive whether or not.

[BioShock Freak]

^ Yeah, for instance look at Hector Rodrigez, he still thinks Rapture is running, and that the service has gotten worse. And he was one of the more sane ones.

Nah, Hector was just a drunken fool. Lol.

It's incredible how much depth there is to the story, and regarding Lord Weller's comment on how Atlas gained popularity so fast, I dug this up:



Now that would have given "Atlas" a good three months to establish himself as the new opposition to combat Ryan, much like Fontaine did. It's not long considering, but he had already gave himself a head start and gathering followers wouldn't have been too difficult. I mean Ryan wasn't particularly popular at this stage, he was certainly tainting his image and permanently damaging his reputation to the point where even his most loyal of followers began to turn on him (like Bill McDonagh, Sullivan etc).

I was always curious as to how Fontaine actually "faked" his death, I mean if it was a "fiery shootout" then he must have left it very much to chance in hope that he could perhaps pose as dead in amongst his truly dead followers. But then surely they would pick up on that, or maybe by the term "fiery" they meant that Ryan's men used plasmids like Incinerate and therefore would make identifying the bodies near impossible. However, I'm not certain if Ryan's men adopted the use of plasmids at that stage. Guess it's all speculation it seems, would be nice if more light was shed on the subject.

Never thought about that. If it was indeed a big fire, then it would've been even easier for Fontaine to have had survived that big incident. Hopefully we find out more about Fontaine and Atlas in BioShock 2.

~Mari.

[Venom Wolf]

How did Atlas do it? He'd came and said: let's struggle against Ryan? And someone would decide he was Ryan's spy, as Kyburz and Pablo Navarro thought about Anya Andersdotter. And Atlas would be killed by Ryan's splicers. Not all people had spliced a lot. Someone managed to be in right mind. It's not enough to be nice-looking and have pleasant voice to be trusted. I would love to see an explanation in a movie or in a prequel.

Well, I think Atlas' Headquarters were located in Fontaine's Home for the Poor or near it, and we all know that that was a front for him building an army of splicers, as McDonagh mentions:

Fontaine knew our blokes were coming. We were done over. Them splicers come screaming out the woodwork. Burping fire, spitting ice... demons out of the Bible they were. Never seen nothing like it. It wasn't a business he was building, it was an army.

Strikes me that Fontaine wasn't overly inconvenienced by his own demise. On New Year's Eve, his wretched splicers came streaming out of the poor houses and stormed the proverbial barricades!

Then after Fontaine "died" there was still an army in there with no leader. It was also located in the poorest district where people were angry with Ryan, in despair, had no hope etc. They were already susceptible to manipulation, so I don't think it was that difficult for Atlas to takeover.

In fact if he took over the army first, then the people of Apollo Square, it would be a bit harder for anyone to voice suspicion. No-one would argue with a man who had a whole army of splicers on his side.

However, I think there was some suspicion, remember in the sewers at Olympic Heights, someone's written ATLAS IS WATCHING YOU on the walls. This is after you find out about him, but I don't think Jack or Tennenbaum wrote it.

This is only a theory mind you, and I do hope some of it is answered or made clearer in the sequel. Also the "fiery shoot-out" thing - maybe there was a decoy? That was was a pretty good observation Lord Weller, maybe Incinerate plasmids were used!

[Atlas.]

Makes sense if there had been some sort of fire in the 'fiery shoot-out'. If he had 'died' by bullets alone they would easily see that it wasnt his body. Maybe he deliberately started a fire, hid in its cover then faked his death and used a body of one of his dead men which, when burned by the fire, would become indistinguishable... I did a Bioshock RP playing as Fontaine and thats what i did for that bit. Could work but then again i see no evidence of a fire at the Fisheries.. Cant see how else he could have done it though without it being obvious that it wasnt his body

His HQ was on the 4th floor in Fontaine's Home for the Poor. Both using his business as a cover and gaining support from the poor who by this time most likely were already turning against Ryan anyway. They probably looked to him for help. Diane says "Without him the people of Apollo Square would have given up" They saw him as someone willing to stand up against Ryan which earned him their respect
(imo)

[BioShock Freak]

UNLESS........maybe doctors were in on it and declared him dead.
~Mari.

[Atlas.]

Thats possible... but again if was just gunfire id guess Sullivan and his men would probably have looked at the time just to check if they had got him or not. If fire then they wouldnt be able to tell and must have just guessed that it was him if he had faked it well. Doctors could have been in on it but if his body wasnt there at the time....

Now this is why i want to see a prequel, so we can see how things like this happened ;)

[Frank Fountaine]

Well, let's assume plasmids were involved right? Well, Dr. Stienman did say that ADAM was the canvas (or something to those lines) and how he could now do anything he wants with the human face. Well it's not hard to imagine that Stienman made a look-alike Fountaine as a decoy for the fiery shoot out. If you compare Atlas face to Fountaines you'll notice minor facial features that'd probably need plastic surgery to change/add. It's not hard to imagine Stienman and Fountaine having a business deal?

Though I agree more of this needs to be explained because right now all of this is pure speculation.

[Atlas.]

^ Good point. I had mentioned before about him having surgery done (as everyone was so afraid of Fontaine it was unlikely that they would talk) or they had some sort of business deal. Hadnt thought about the use of a look alike as a decoy though. Makes perfect sense and very well could have been. Doubt anyone would have known any different, they couldnt exactly check his DNA in those days

[E.Bouncer]

^ Good point. I had mentioned before about him having surgery done (as everyone was so afraid of Fontaine it was unlikely that they would talk) or they had some sort of business deal. Hadnt thought about the use of a look alike as a decoy though. Makes perfect sense and very well could have been. Doubt anyone would have known any different, they couldnt exactly check his DNA in those days

I agree with you there except for one thing.
I think they most probly could have checked the DNA back then (in rapture only) because you here yourself how Ryan had DNA coded the bathyspheres specifically to his own DNA also how the heck would they be able to genetically enhance and/or alter peoples very DNA unless they could see the individual DNA strands so unless there was a good bit of action goung on and they wanted to get out of there knowing they shot him down they should have taken him to a doctor or a scientist to make sure...

[Lord Weller]

Well, I think Atlas' Headquarters were located in Fontaine's Home for the Poor or near it, and we all know that that was a front for him building an army of splicers, as McDonagh mentions:

Then after Fontaine "died" there was still an army in there with no leader. It was also located in the poorest district where people were angry with Ryan, in despair, had no hope etc. They were already susceptible to manipulation, so I don't think it was that difficult for Atlas to takeover.

I agree. Yes, new-Fontaine had used his army built earlier.

In fact if he took over the army first, then the people of Apollo Square, it would be a bit harder for anyone to voice suspicion. No-one would argue with a man who had a whole army of splicers on his side.

Someone was afraid of Atlas, and someone liked him. It's hardly to imagine McDonagh asked for Ryan to hand Fontaine Futuristics over to the person, who he was afraid of. There would be no sense.

[Lord Weller]

Well, let's assume plasmids were involved right? Well, Dr. Stienman did say that ADAM was the canvas (or something to those lines) and how he could now do anything he wants with the human face. Well it's not hard to imagine that Stienman made a look-alike Fountaine as a decoy for the fiery shoot out. If you compare Atlas face to Fountaines you'll notice minor facial features that'd probably need plastic surgery to change/add. It's not hard to imagine Stienman and Fountaine having a business deal?

Though I agree more of this needs to be explained because right now all of this is pure speculation.
'Adam is a canvas of genetic modification... but plasmids are the paint.' was in Dr. Suchong's audio diary. ;)

I think, that is true Dr. Steinman was engaged in change of Fontaine's appearance. But Atlas differs from Fontaine is more then it seems. If we see his faces in good pictures, we'll discern the changes are more then growing of hair. And it is difficult to imagine the Fontaine's group drag all over the place a dead body look-alike Fontaine. :D. Or did Fontaine have the double?

[Katfather]

It's hardly to imagine McDonagh asks for Ryan to hand Fontaine Futuristics over to the person, of who he was afraid. There would be no sense.

Hey, if someone is holding a gun to me or someone I loved, no matter how much I hate them, I'll hand over anything they want! McDonagh loved Rapture (his own words), and if he thought that giving Franky what he wanted would save it, he'd do it. Sadly he was wrong. Foolish too. He should have remembered the same didn't work with Chamberlain and Hitler ether. Demons rarely stop their evil after given sacrifices ..

[Lord Weller]

Katfather, I'm sorry, I haven't understood, what you wanted to say. I spoke, McDonagh knew Fontaine was dead also he believed Atlas was other person than Fontaine. I have written McDonagh liked Atlas and probably he trusted Atlas. It means Atlas made a favourable impression on the normal people.

[Venom Wolf]

Well this is the actual quote:

I begged Mr. Ryan to hand Fontaine Futuristics over to Atlas' boys as a peace offering, but the stupid sod won't listen to reason. 'Stead he's just splicing his mob up, giving them more and tougher plasmids. There's an arms race on here in Rapture, but it's not about who can build the best guns and the biggest bombs. It's about who can become less of a man and more of a monster...

It sounds as if McDonagh thought up the idea of handing Fontaine Futuristics to Atlas or Atlas had made a request for it. It's not very clear.

[Katfather]

Katfather, I'm sorry, I haven't understood, what you wanted to say. I spoke, McDonagh knew Fontaine was dead also he believed Atlas was other person than Fontaine. I have written McDonagh liked Atlas and probably he trusted Atlas. It means Atlas made a favourable impression on the normal people.


моя ошибка. я думал, что мак знал, что он имел дело с fontaine (My mistake. I thought Mac knew he had to deal with Fontaine.) Forgive the lousy internet Russian. I spoke a little of it when I worked in Moscow, but that was over 25 years ago and I never read it much, which I'm VERY sorry for..

[Lord Weller]

Of course, I badly know English but as I have understood from this audio-record, McDonagh very much asked for Ryan to hand Fontaine’s company to private arms and he believed the best arms belonged to Atlas. I believe this phrase: “'Stead he's just splicing his mob up, giving them more and tougher plasmids. There's an arms race on here in Rapture, but it's not about who can build the best guns and the biggest bombs. It's about who can become less of a man and more of a monster.” about Ryan’s policy that he increased a production of ADAM by enormous quantities. And McDonagh supposed the Ryan’s action lead to fast transformation of the people into the monsters and growth of obstinate resistance to Ryan’s dictatorship.

[Katfather]

Of course, I badly know English but as I have understood from this audio-record, McDonagh very much asked for Ryan to hand Fontaine’s company to private arms and he believed the best arms belonged to Atlas. I believe this phrase: “'Stead he's just splicing his mob up, giving them more and tougher plasmids. There's an arms race on here in Rapture, but it's not about who can build the best guns and the biggest bombs. It's about who can become less of a man and more of a monster.” about Ryan’s policy that he increased a production of ADAM by enormous quantities. And McDonagh supposed the Ryan’s action lead to fast transformation of the people into the monsters and growth of obstinate resistance to Ryan’s dictatorship.

You are correct, and I will now shut up. (And the crowd cheers!!!)

[Mr. Tiddlywinks]

Hey, if someone is holding a gun to me or someone I loved, no matter how much I hate them, I'll hand over anything they want! McDonagh loved Rapture (his own words), and if he thought that giving Franky what he wanted would save it, he'd do it. Sadly he was wrong. Foolish too. He should have remembered the same didn't work with Chamberlain and Hitler ether. Demons rarely stop their evil after given sacrifices ..

Never give up, never surrender!! Look at Ryan, he would not betray his ideas because of the force of someone else telling him to! Unfortunately, Ryan betrayed his virtues because he felt they were threatened and thought that he was protecting them, I feel sorry for him. As Ryan said so well concerning reacting to the force of the parasites: "You can kill me, but you will never have my city!"

[Lord Weller]

I’m sorry I don’t feel pity for Ryan. He built the immoral society and assumed the reins of government. In the beginning it was to his advantage to sell ADAM together with con-man Fontaine. Ryan didn’t care, that Fontaine was engaged in smuggling. And when Ryan saw Fontaine had became to be derogatory from his authority, he decided to destroy him. Ryan gave a command to torture the Fontaine's people and to hang them for smuggling. And then he appropriated Fontaine’s property. The human life was nothing for Ryan as well as for Fontaine.

[Bioshocking123]

моя ошибка. я думал, что мак знал, что он имел дело

Huh? :confused: lol

[Atlas.]

I agree with you there except for one thing.
I think they most probly could have checked the DNA back then (in rapture only) because you here yourself how Ryan had DNA coded the bathyspheres specifically to his own DNA also how the heck would they be able to genetically enhance and/or alter peoples very DNA unless they could see the individual DNA strands so unless there was a good bit of action goung on and they wanted to get out of there knowing they shot him down they should have taken him to a doctor or a scientist to make sure...
Ah yeah you're right there. Forgetting how advanced Rapture is, more so than todays standards in many ways ;) I kinda forgot about that part. Im a scientist to be myself and just know that they couldnt use DNA back then like they do today.. but maybe in Rapture it was possible...

Then again if Fontaine did have a look alike or a double that he'd have used for the shoot-out then whoever that person was would most likely have known that they would be going in to die, why would they willingly do that. But then again i suppose they would have to as if they didn't they'd have just been killed by Fontaine anyway... Either way not good for them, if it was this method that he used of course... but who knows really. Again i say we need a prequel :)

[E.Bouncer]

Hmm of course it might be that Fontaine used a brain dead splicer to die for him as the splicer wouldnt kno anyhting besides shooting a gun and trying to kill for ADAM

but yeah a Sequel would be great! even if the second game will be a continuation which would still be equally interesting:)

[Atlas.]

Ah another good possibility. A splicer would have worked. Maybe he promised him loads of ADAM if he did that certain 'job' for him. Being a splicer he'd probably do anything for ADAM and just went along with it

Maybe Fontaine was there at the beginning of it, if Sullivan was there he'd probably have to talk for a bit before the big shoot-out started, then once it got going made the switch to his decoy then made his escape...

Good ideas :)

[Katfather]

Huh? :confused: lol


Translate to "My mistake. I thought Mac knew he had to deal with Fontaine'


I remember what it's like to have nobody speaking your tongue around you and just thought I'd do a little Russian back to Lord Weller. But I did a real, real bad job. My Russian sucks now and the on-line stuff is junk.. Sorry for the confused..

[Bioshocking123]

I actually thought it was kind of cool that your keyboard could do that. :D

[Cohen's Masterpiece]

Of course there was an Atlas. It was obviously Fontaine. But Atlas actually led an army of splicers. Atlas' men are the ones that crashed the New Year's party. Patrick and Moira were never real, but he was. It was Fontaine though, he changed his looks and everything. Got a fresh start. He says it in an Audio Diary.

The Longest Con:

Never play a man for the short con when you can play 'em for the long one. Atlas is the longest con of all. Ryan wanted Frank Fontaine Dead, I just gave him what he wanted. As Atlas, I got a new face, a clean record, and a fresh start. Now it's time to take back Rapture and-

Diane McClintock: ...Ryan did. I can't wait to tell Atlas. He'll be so pleased...

Frank Fontaine (As Atlas' voice): Uhh, Miss McClintock... what are you doing here? (Back to normal voice) Let me just turn this off... "

So there ya have it, Atlas was real. I now rest my case. :cool: Lol.
~Mari.

lol good point :cool:

[Cohen's Masterpiece]

Well, I think Atlas' Headquarters were located in Fontaine's Home for the Poor or near it
they are, in fact, you can explore his base. I think it was on the fourth floor...