sexistshock?

[John murdoch]

I hope no one else has posted this...
I was just having a scan of the net and i came across this http://99lives.org/2007/10/08/misogyny-has-a-new-game-bioshock/
The second comment was very interesting.
I wouldn't mind hearing others thoughts? Could some things have been left out?...

[RyanAndrews]

Back when BioShock takes place, it was a man's world. No surprise that men would be portrayed with the power. I think it is very true to the time period. :o

[RyanAndrews]

And what about Langford, or the many female splicers, or Little Sisters, or Jack's mother? I think the second comment is a bit misleading and not totally true. And Tenenbaum radio calls you many times, you see her in the orphanage, and she even narrarates the closing scene. And what is wrong with staying true to what the game is partly based on? (Ayn Rand's Literature, a woman) Everything that is in BioShock is pretty true to the time period in terms of how characters are portrayed and behave.

[esipode]

It is sexist yes,but accurate. The plasmid commercials were made in the 40-50's and,as RyanAndrews said,it was a time when men were the dominant gender.

[PhrozenSky117]

Exactly as you guys said, the time period was a time when men were the dominant sex. All the game is doing is justifying the time period.

[Telekinetic Puppeteer]

Blah blah blah... Why the **** are people such pansies these days? Almost anything triggers their whiner.

And I agree with everything RyanAndrews said, the game is simply justifying the time period.

[BioShock Freak]

OMFG. I can't believe these people. Back in those times, men WERE dominant. Bioshock was based on that time so of course you were going to see a lot of that. That's what made the game so authentic and realistic. Femenists, *shakes head* always looking for the smallest things to rank on. :rolleyes:
~Mari.

[esipode]

Not entirely sure,but isn't it "femenist",not "femisist"?(Sorry,I just thought it neccesary to correct grammar.Don't hate me please.:o )And i am pretty sure there have been a few threads on this before.

[Venom Wolf]

It's like the outrage over Resident Evil 5. That's what it reminds me of. Anyway practically all the males are portrayed in a negative light - Andrew Ryan, Fontaine, Cohen, Peach and Steinman. What an idiot.

[Jodalmighty]

What the heck is wrong with some people? Any time you do a period piece you should be true to the times. Its right up there with the moron that sued Disney because the pirates on the Pirates of the Caribbean ride were sexually harassing the women. They were freakin' PIRATES!

[RyanAndrews]

It's like the outrage over Resident Evil 5. That's what it reminds me of. Anyway practically all the males are portrayed in a negative light - Andrew Ryan, Fontaine, Cohen, Peach and Steinman. What an idiot.

Lol, yeah. they were mad because a white cop went to Africa and got attacked because they were parasitic. What people went crazy over is that it was a white cop defendin' from black Africans. They game now includes some Muslim and Middle Eastern parasite victims as well. But what were people expecting, all Africans to be white just so it was politically correct?:rolleyes:

[Spliced Big Daddy]

the thing is that if you make a big deal over black zombies or women enemies you are basically supporting that they are "different" from "us."

[RyanAndrews]

the thing is that if you make a big deal over black zombies or women enemies you are basically supporting that they are "different" from "us."

I wish it could just be seen as a person defending against parasitic monsters. That is what it is, no matter who the people used to be. But the guy who started the fuss was an African-American who commented to the press about it. But seriously, the population in that area is made up of blacks, Muslims, and middle easterners. I am glad they aren't going against reality and making the population white, just for political correctness.

If you were attacked by a monster, who was once of another race, wouldn't you do what it takes to live? I sure wouldn't stop and start this conversation:

Agent: "Hey, I am white so if I shoot you, then the people back in the U.S. will think I am a terrible racist."

Monster: "Rawr." *Lunges with knife*

Agent: "HEY! I can't shoot you because I am in Africa where native Africans live! Even though it is reality, I can only shoot white Africans."

Monster: "Grrrr." *Stabs agent to death.*

[Spliced Big Daddy]

I wish it could just be seen as a person defending against parasitic monsters. That is what it is, no matter who the people used to be. But the guy who started the fuss was an African-American who commented to the press about it. But seriously, the population in that area is made up of blacks, Muslims, and middle easterners. I am glad they aren't going against reality and making the population white, just for political correctness.

If you were attacked by a monster, who was once of another race, wouldn't you do what it takes to live? I sure wouldn't stop and start this conversation:

Agent: "Hey, I am white so if I shoot you, then the people back in the U.S. will think I am a terrible racist."

Monster: "Rawr." *Lunges with knife*

Agent: "HEY! I can't shoot you because I am in Africa where native Africans live! Even though it is reality, I can only shoot white Africans."

Monster: "Grrrr." *Stabs agent to death.*
that is exactly my point

[GloriaWainwright]

This is a shame. I would definately call troll on this if it wasn't actually posted on someone's blog.

Ah, blogging. The number-one way to let all of the various tubes of the internet know how far your head is shoved up your bum.

[Jodalmighty]

The ability to make random accusations is being abused but then again we can't take away peoples rights to be total morons.

[Iceliege]

What the heck is wrong with some people? Any time you do a period piece you should be true to the times. Its right up there with the moron that sued Disney because the pirates on the Pirates of the Caribbean ride were sexually harassing the women. They were freakin' PIRATES!

Rofl, did that really happen :D

Anyay, this game isn't sexist.

1. Men were seen as the dominant gender during that time, so it completely fits the game to have them portrayed like that in certain ways.

2. Women had very important roles in the story, and off the top of my head, there were more good women than good men.

[Venom Wolf]

Rofl, did that really happen :D

Anyay, this game isn't sexist.

1. Men were seen as the dominant gender during that time, so it completely fits the game to have them portrayed like that in certain ways.

2. Women had very important roles in the story, and off the top of my head, there were more good women than good men.

Whoever wrote the blog thinks that Tennenbaum being relegated to "babysitter" is demeaning. Which is narrow-minded in itself, as she is trying to correct past wrongs, and there's nothing wrong with a woman deciding she wants to look after kids anyway.

[RyanAndrews]

Whoever wrote the blog thinks that Tennenbaum being relegated to "babysitter" is demeaning. Which is narrow-minded in itself, as she is trying to correct past wrongs, and there's nothing wrong with a woman deciding she wants to look after kids anyway.

Yeah, she wants to look after them and enjoys them like they are her own kids. What is the problem with her being motherly? She wants to redeem herself, and she find a good way to do so.

[BenFranklin]

I don't know who I should hate more.

Neo Nazi-Feminists/Racists/Sex Offenders/Murderers/Vegans

I put them all in the same book. But this article makes me hate radical feminists a little bit more.

[37inf.div.]

is it sexist to show a man dieng i find that offensive there saying its ok to kill men yea thats find but touch a women tryin to killyou and its sexist dose anyone see the hypocrasy here?

[Demitasse]

Yeah, and what's the deal with sexually segregated restrooms? That's totally sexist. It's now okay for me to use the same restroom as a negroe, but I can't even use the same restroom as a women? What's the deal? It's okay for me to walk out in the street with my shirt off, but it's not okay for a woman to do the same for she will be put in jail for public indecency?

It's also okay for a women to sit in another womens lap while riding in someone's truck to conserve space, but if I were to ride in another man's lap I would be labeled as a fag? Why is it that women can wear make-up, but if I do I will be laughed at? Women can get waxes and their toes done, but if I do I'm metrosexual? Society is so messed up.

Why is it that women and children are considered the priority in emergency? If the ship is sinking why are women and children the first off? Can they not defend themselves as much as a man? How come women are not allowed in infantry, can they not fight as hard as a man? Why are gays kicked out of the military, can they not murder as much as a straight?

[BioShock Freak]

You've got a good point there Demitasse. Everyone's watching our every move and as soon as we mess up on a little thing, we get judged for it. What is wrong with this world? Jealousy, I think. People are jealous for not being able to do certain things so they get angry and rebel against it. Why? Seriously, our world is messed up.
~Mari.

[37inf.div.]

equality is a two way street people if you want total equality i should be allowed on theat life boat as much as a women. You make a good poinit.

[RyanAndrews]

Yeah, and what's the deal with sexually segregated restrooms? That's totally sexist. It's now okay for me to use the same restroom as a negroe, but I can't even use the same restroom as a women? What's the deal? It's okay for me to walk out in the street with my shirt off, but it's not okay for a woman to do the same for she will be put in jail for public indecency?

It's also okay for a women to sit in another womens lap while riding in someone's truck to conserve space, but if I were to ride in another man's lap I would be labeled as a fag? Why is it that women can wear make-up, but if I do I will be laughed at? Women can get waxes and their toes done, but if I do I'm metrosexual? Society is so messed up.

Why is it that women and children are considered the priority in emergency? If the ship is sinking why are women and children the first off? Can they not defend themselves as much as a man? How come women are not allowed in infantry, can they not fight as hard as a man? Why are gays kicked out of the military, can they not murder as much as a straight?

Well put. I think a big thing comes from the fact that men are thought of as stronger and more of warriors because of it. They are thought to be less emotional. Women and children are first priority I think because children have a longer future to live out, and women are though to be the emotional caring ones who take care of the children.

[BioShock Freak]

^True.
But in reality, everyone's the same. Men, women, children, and even animals are emotional.
~Mari.

[SunParlorPlayers]

I think it's addicts who get the bad portrayal in this game. Is there a word for prejudice against addicts? Those poor splicers get killed constantly because of what ,a little addiction and some shooting up? This game is teaching kids to beat up druggies with a wrench, that's the real problem here if you ask me.

[Atlas the Fisherman]

Whoever wrote this article is ridiculous! I think they defeated their entire argument that Bioshock is sexist, by stating: "Even the presentation is done in a stylized 1940’s manner, referring to an era in which women were seen as property."

EXACTLY! In this time period, men were seen as the dominant figures...having more power in the workplace, providers for their family, etc etc. It is a aspect of the game's environment that takes place IN THAT TIME PERIOD!

The author makes it sounds as if all the plasmid videos depicted women. Some contain other men!...Hell!, the Sonic Boom video shows the user attacking several male police offers with it, does that mean that Bioshock condones such actions?

"The victim is always dressed as a housewife (misogynists love their women subservient) and overtly feminine"...I guess that's the new housewife appearance that the woman in the Cyclone Trap Video is wearing...must of been living under a rock when all the overtly feminine housewives dressed like a combination of Rosie the Riveter and Peach Wilkins.

"Later on in the game, you’ll cross paths with Bridgette Tenenbaum, the only female character in the game."...uhh....what?

And of course, they are going to complain that you kill splicers that are women. Did this person think it would of been more realistic if all the splicers/citizens that went crazy and tried to kill Jack, were men?

Fortunately, men and women are seen as more equal today. And yes, we no longer live in a time period such as the one Bioshock takes place in. But since the game tries to create an experience as close as possible to what it would of been like at that period in history, it has to incorporate such elements that would of been socially acceptable and normal to see at that time. I mean would it of made any sense instead of Atlas talking to you on a short-wave radio to text you via a BlackBerry and tell you: "holla, wood u kindly go 2 ryan's office n' pop a cap in his @$$?"...no, because people didn't talk like that in the late 1950's/early 1960's and no one had cellphones. Sure you could say, "that's a stupid comparison", but it's true! It's like RyanAndrews said at the beginning of this whole thing:

"I think it is very true to the time period"
couldn't of said it better myself :)

I have only two words to say to this person...
EVOLVE TODAY!


I apologize in advance if this offends anyone, I didn't intend it to. It's just how I feel.

[cryokinisis]

yes at one point in time, i mean since the dawn of time untill now wife beating has been seen as entertaining if not mandatory by most people on this planet.
only in the last 2 decades has this trend broken down ever so slightly.

congratulations we all live in a very sick sad world.

[Atlas the Fisherman]

Just came across an interesting piece.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/file/924919/50027

check out:

3.7 A GENDER READING OF BIOSHOCK

[RyanAndrews]

I think it's addicts who get the bad portrayal in this game. Is there a word for prejudice against addicts? Those poor splicers get killed constantly because of what ,a little addiction and some shooting up? This game is teaching kids to beat up druggies with a wrench, that's the real problem here if you ask me.

Hey, they tried to hit me first! I wouldn't have hurt them if they were trying to help me!

[Atlas-Puppet]

Honestly. Can people not see Bioshock for what it really is? I'm sure Ken Levine never thought. "Yeah, we wanted Bioshock to be the most sexist game out there. We wanted to say beating up drug users is a great idea." Of course he didn't.

Bioshock is meant to be a first person shooter. It is described as, a first person experience like no other. It is not called; a sexist and objectivist game like no other. Any of these references are purely coincidential or simply part of the time period. Every game will appear sexist for a small part, even if it isn't meant to be.

To summarise, just play Bioshock without looking for points to "bash" it with. It is a great game. I can't wait for the sequel. :)

[Iceliege]

Hey, they tried to hit me first! I wouldn't have hurt them if they were trying to help me!

I have to go with you on this one. I forget where I read this (might even be on the back of the game case or website), but it read that Splicers are extremely dangerous and attack anyone they aren't familiar with. Besides, it's their fault, and they pose a danger to us, and in real life, I would never hit a drug-addict with a wrench.

[japester]

Hmm. I thought this thread had died a while back. I'm surprised to see it still going. I'm seeing some good and some....misguided opinions.

Atlas-Puppet has the right view, I think. The problem with today's society is we are always looking for someone to blame and some way to twist things so that someone is to blame. Take villains in movies and games. You have to have conflict with your hero, right? But who do you make the villain? There is a laundry list of characteristics that you can't use, unless you want to defend yourself to various special interest groups.


Why is it that women and children are considered the priority in emergency? If the ship is sinking why are women and children the first off? Can they not defend themselves as much as a man? How come women are not allowed in infantry, can they not fight as hard as a man? Why are gays kicked out of the military, can they not murder as much as a straight?

Now this passage (and those agreeing with it) are confusing cultural values with more practical values. Yes, as a culture, we like to say that everybody is "equal". But we know that's not true in the purest sense. It means we are supposed to have the same rights, but it doesn't mean we are identical. I'm sure I can run faster than some of you. And some of you can jump higher than I can. We are not equal in that respect.

Women and children saved first? Part cultural (man as protector) but primarily practical. Women are the breeding stock. Children are your genes that will go on and breed in the next generation. An adult male can also breed, but he's already used up some of his viable years. As a biologist and zookeeper, I can tell you that males are largely disposable. You only need one to sire a generation. But you need plenty of females. So males get sacrificed first in a crisis.

Women infantry. Ah, my sister is career military (and can kick most guys' butts) and always wanted a combat assignment. She's just as smart as any guy, and almost as tough. So why not put her in a foxhole? Well, biologically she goes through a monthly cycle. With proper supplies and medication, it can be minimized or controlled, but how do you maintain a supply line to a foxhole? What danger does it put her and her comrades in if her judgment is temporarily impaired due to hormonal changes? It is a medical fact, and one that concerns our military enough to make them think twice. Women can now fly combat operations, proving that we have faith in their abilities, but planes also get them back home quickly, avoiding the above scenario.

This isn't the entire reason, I'm sure, but its a very important and practical one.

Gays in the military (my own brother was kicked out of the Air Force for this) shares a similar problem with females. Both, females and gays, add an unwanted element to combat ops--love. The reality of the perfect soldier is a machine that will fight--and possibly die--without question. Without thought of self. Forming bonds of brotherhood can be helpful, but forming full-on relationships is not. There is a very real fear that by putting physically and emotionally compatible troops in a combat theater for the long term, you may result in couples. And couples may not be as willing to follow orders that may endanger them or their mate.

As time as gone on, though, females are seeing more action in ground operations. And excluding gays entirely is more a cultural bias (an unfair one), since there are many, many support roles that don't involve combat. That's why the big story was broken about gay linguists being discharged. Their sexuality would have had minimal impact on that job--a job that is extremely understaffed in the Middle East theater.

As unpleasant as some of this discussion may be for some of you, I wanted to point out that many people today take an overly-simplified view of things. Most issues are composed of shades of gray, not black and white. ;)

[A.Ryan29]

Blah blah blah... Why the **** are people such pansies these days? Almost anything triggers their whiner.

And I agree with everything RyanAndrews said, the game is simply justifying the time period.


I wanna be friends with this guy lol, nobody has ever put it so plain and so blunt, i love it :D

[Ryan's_Songbird]

lol wow................. just wow.....this is retarded. That pretty much sums that up :D

[Cohen's prodigy]

I am so tired of these femenists and hippies whining about everything this takes place in the 50's it realistic why don't you go take a shower put on a bra and quit being so annoying about these issues if you have a problem with a tv show or a video game dont watch it or play it and especially dont get a bunch of stupid parents to blog and protest them just because they dont want their kids or anyone else to have fun

YOU PEOPLE MAKE SO ANGRY!!!!!

[Ureh]

There can't be equality because one idea will always be on top of the other idea. There is no eye to eye on this.
Anyone see Stepford Wives? I'm still not sure which scares me most... the world controlled by women and where men become the new b!tc**es, or the small community that kidnaps women and replaces them with obedient robots (even feminine gay men are greater than straight men in that movie).

[brendensavi]

I never once thought of Bioshock as a sexist game, even after beating it 14 times and analyzing every little detail I possibly could. I thought it was beautiful, and thinking about it now, honestly, I found the female characters to be much more intelligent and rational characters, especially Tenenbaum, even though she did all of those horrible things to those little girls, she did it out of her determination and love for science, that's what blinded her, and when she finally achieved her goals, and realized what she had done, she used that same determination to fix her mistakes. She took responsibility for her actions, and she felt horrible about what she did to the Little Sisters, she felt compassion. Something I can't say for Andrew Ryan, he never felt compassion for anyone, and while he did achieve something that seemed impossible, he never took responsibility when Rapture failed, he just blamed others like Fontaine, and pumped pheromones into the air to control those that opposed him. He became exactly what he hated, and in my mind, that makes him weak. Tenenbaum is a much more powerful figure to me, she didn't build an underwater metropolis, but in the end she never gave up, and was determined to make her wrongs right, unlike Ryan. That's what made her stronger. Honestly though, with that said, I don't think the developers intended for either sex to be inferior to each other, I never saw it that way, even with the game set during the 40's-60's.

[esipode]

Not quite sure how this thread rose out of the dirt so suddenly, but okey dokey.

I do not recall who it was that said 'would they prefer it was only male splicers being killed'? (I don't feel like going back through the pages right now) But I think that even if it was, the person who wrote the article would have been angry even if it was only males. I could picture what they could say right now: 'Where are all the women? Did they all get killed for being to weak compared to the men? Were they to feminine to handle the plasmids?' Is what I could picture the writer to say down to the button.

[PoeticMadnesss]

Alright, people always complain about how women are objectified and whatnot, and how they shouldn't be abused.

Take a look at your tv. Look at the many different sitcoms and tv shows that are on today.

Do you notice anything?

The men in today's tv world are portrayed as idiots, and have a smart female counterpart.

I don't feel like thinking too in-depth to shows made in recent years, but take a look at the show Home Improvement. Tim Allen is portrayed as an idiot, incompetant, and an uncaring father, while his wife is portrayed as intelligent, organized, and a loving mother.

This isn't the only example; I'm just too lazy to find any more right now.

Women should stop complaining about every little frickin thing; that also goes for every other ethnic group out there. White men are now the most highly bashed people in television, and we don't say anything about it.

Well, I believe that if my demographic group is going to be bashed, then I am damn well allowed to bash others in the way I want, in whatever media form I please.


People need to stop being so sensitive.

[janissary12]

::eyeroll:: Yessssss, it's just terrible to be on top of the socio-economic heap and have people LAUGH at you.

Laughing!! Yeah, that totally beats out making a fraction of what other people do for the same job, and getting less societal benefits. And after all the top dogs have done for everybody else! Have a little respect, you ungrateful wretches.

Boo frickin' hoo.

[PoeticMadnesss]

*is an Objectivist*

I really don't care about other ethnic groups or other groups of people. It's irrelevant. When it comes down to it, if you'er going to poke fun at one group, you have to be able to poked fun at. If not, then no fun can be poked.

[Cohen's prodigy]

feminists are just hippie lesbians who like to complain about everything

[brendensavi]

feminists are just hippie lesbians who like to complain about everything

That's a very misguided idea of feminism, and while there are different forms of feminism, the main philosophy is for woman to be treated equally.

[A.Ryan29]

Yeah, and what's the deal with sexually segregated restrooms? That's totally sexist. It's now okay for me to use the same restroom as a negroe, but I can't even use the same restroom as a women? What's the deal? It's okay for me to walk out in the street with my shirt off, but it's not okay for a woman to do the same for she will be put in jail for public indecency?

It's also okay for a women to sit in another womens lap while riding in someone's truck to conserve space, but if I were to ride in another man's lap I would be labeled as a fag? Why is it that women can wear make-up, but if I do I will be laughed at? Women can get waxes and their toes done, but if I do I'm metrosexual? Society is so messed up.

Why is it that women and children are considered the priority in emergency? If the ship is sinking why are women and children the first off? Can they not defend themselves as much as a man? How come women are not allowed in infantry, can they not fight as hard as a man? Why are gays kicked out of the military, can they not murder as much as a straight?

Everything you said made sense, but please don't imply that the men and women in the military are murderers

[PoeticMadnesss]

Everything you said made sense, but please don't imply that the men and women in the military are murderers

I agree with his point on that one. I believe they are as well. Do not get defensive otherwise this thread will get locked for being off-topic.

[A.Ryan29]

That's a very misguided idea of feminism, and while there are different forms of feminism, the main philosophy is for woman to be treated equally.


The main philosophy may be to be "treated equally" but the sad truth is that feminist don't want to be treated equally, they want to be treated better than equally.

Ask a man to move a heavy package at his place of work, that's expected.
Ask a woman to carry that same package, there's an uprising, saying she is being objected to manual labor.

Also, women get a grip, when I open a door for you, it's me being polite, not me thinking you are too weak to open the damn door

[Scrounger]

From "About off-topic areas!" by 2K Elizabeth:

"If you have an off-topic discussion that does not pertain to ANY game on the forum, such as discussing movies, music, or other gaming news, post in the General Off-Topic Discussion forum, NOT in one of the specific game off-topic areas."

I believe this thread has left the specific game (Bioshock) off-topic area, and thus no longer belongs here. Close it, or move it, please.

[PoeticMadnesss]

I believe this thread has left the specific game (Bioshock) off-topic area, and thus no longer belongs here. Close it, or move it, please.


To get it back on topic:

is there anyone out there who really believes that BioShock is sexist? or racist, for that matter, seeing as how there are predominantly caucasians in the game?

[Ureh]

To get it back on topic:

is there anyone out there who really believes that BioShock is sexist? or racist, for that matter, seeing as how there are predominantly caucasians in the game?

I don't think it's racist or sexist. It is just trying to stay as close to the society during that time period (the society might be racist/sexist but during that time they probably would not have considered it racist/sexist at all). But the game itself did not deliberately try to make itself look racist or sexist.
We hear and see from a few other ethnicities as well: Suchong, Sullivan, Navarro. I understand that for some people that is not enough variety, but for that time period I think it is what we should expect.
Anna Culpepper, Julie Langford, and Bridgette Tenenbaum? Both very strong, smart women, possibly even powerful who have another face to wear when they are in private (not literally). Culpepper had her security camera, Langford had her security camera/turrets/and stronghold and Tenenbaum is really good at making headshots. Fontaine could only hope do the same after he spliced like crazy.

[GoldenSphinx]

The game is definitely not sexist. Women are strong and intelligent and portrayed with just as much drive, will, intellect, greed, and flaws as the men in the game. I don't believe it is racist either, but I spoke on this in another thread and someone else made a valid point about Ryan's recruiting. Steinman could do all sorts of things with Adam, who's to say people didn't play with their skin color. If there had been a multitude of races then their activities and dialogue would be called into question as itself being racist. It is a hard line to walk and a harsh word to throw around. Include them and take flak for their portrayal; don't include them and you are just as racist. Racism exists- it is wrong and unfair, but I didn't see it in this game.

[RTM]

O my gosh, when I first read this, I had a double take moment. Who on earth could see Bioshock as sexist? It really just annoys me that some people can be this stupid, its like some people have to find something to help their point, and they'll make up a whole bunch o **** to help support it. It was obvious that whoever wrote this never truly played the game, they said Tenenbaum is the only woman in the game, try:

Julie Langford
Diane McClintock
Jasmine Jolene
Mariska Lutz

No doubt there are more men, but in the time frame that bioshock is set in, men were the dominant sex.

[Cohen's Scherzo No. 7]

It was obvious that whoever wrote this never truly played the game, they said Tenenbaum is the only woman in the game, try:

Julie Langford
Diane McClintock
Jasmine Jolene
Mariska Lutz


...
Anna Culpepper
Anya Andersdotter
Tasha Denu

[brendensavi]

I found Tenenbaum to be the strongest and most intelligent person in the game. Ryan may have built an underwater metropolis, but he never took responsibility for the fall of Rapture, he only blamed others, and pumped pheromones into the air to control those who opposed him. Tenenbaum took responsibility for her actions when she realized what she had done, she felt compassion for the girls who's lives she ruined, and she was determined to make her wrongs right. This is why I find Tenenbaum to be stronger than Ryan as a person. Ryan in a way gave up, and became what he always hated in the end, while Tenenbaum only worked to make things better. This is one of the many reasons why I don't see Bioshock as a sexist game in any way, the woman are much more powerful and intelligent figures in my opinion.

[A.Ryan29]

So now that everyone has made their opinons heard, is there really a reason for this thread to be open anymore.

I still find it unbelievable that someone woul complain about this, really

[janissary12]

One of the few men who showed any compassion in the ADs was the cop, Sulllivan (?).

Well, and the waiter. :D

[A.Ryan29]

One of the few men who showed any compassion in the ADs was the cop, Sulllivan (?).

Well, and the waiter. :D


Can you clarify what any of that meant?

[brendensavi]

One of the few men who showed any compassion in the ADs was the cop, Sulllivan (?).

Well, and the waiter. :D

I think Bill McDonough was probably the nicest and most compassionate of the male characters.

[RTM]

...
Anna Culpepper
Anya Andersdotter
Tasha Denu

I knew that I had forgot some! I dont remember Tasha however, could you inlighten me?

[A.Ryan29]

I don't think Ryan specifically disliked women either. Ryan just tried to preserve his creation from grasping hands of the populace, regardless of sex

[Ureh]

I knew that I had forgot some! I dont remember Tasha however, could you inlighten me?

They don't go into much detail about her, and there's only one audio diary from her too.
She's Langford's old college mate and was the Bee Keeper in Rapture.

I think Bill McDonough was probably the nicest and most compassionate of the male characters.

You forgot Kyburz too! He sounded pretty nice.
And the inner strife that you hear in his voice:
Ryan's splicers are dragging the young woman off right now. I'm certain she's one of Ryan's spies, sent to feel me out... I think she is... if I'm wrong, an innocent girl'll end up on Ryan's bloody trophy wall. If I'm right... well, I best be right. The device is almost finished. I can't get soft now, I can't! - Kyburz, Device Almost Finished

[brendensavi]

You forgot Kyburz too! He sounded pretty nice.

Oh yeah! I always liked him, and felt a little sorry for his character.

[Scrounger]

To get it back on topic:

is there anyone out there who really believes that BioShock is sexist? or racist, for that matter, seeing as how there are predominantly caucasians in the game?

Only very stupid people could believe that. People who got any brains and paid any attention will see that it's rather the opposite. Of the characters that play any major role in the game, all the men are The Bad Guys, and/or barking mad and/or have ineffectually locked themselves up somewhere:

- Ryan: probably meant well to begin with, but turned into a tyrant
- Fontaine: bad guy from the start
- Suchong: The Mad Scientist, and completely without conscience
- Steinman: Ended up barking mad, hiding in surgery
- Cohen: Another wacko, living in a dream in Fort Frolic
- Wilkins: Paranoid and locked himself up in a freezer, of all places

The women on the other hand, often started as bad, or ineffectual, but turned out to be both strong and Good Guys in the end:

- Tenenbaum: Created the Little Sisters, but then turned and tried to save them
- Langford: Worked on Agent Orange during WWII, and then ended up creating, and attempting to save, the forest in Rapture
- McClintock: Started out as girlfriend and fan of Ryan, but then joined Atlas against him
- Andersdotter: Not clear what she was before, but she had a daugher who was turned into a Little Sister, so she tried to assassin Ryan.

[Eirscythe]

Only very stupid people could believe that. People who got any brains and paid any attention will see that it's rather the opposite. Of the characters that play any major role in the game, all the men are The Bad Guys, and/or barking mad and/or have ineffectually locked themselves up somewhere:

- Ryan: probably meant well to begin with, but turned into a tyrant
- Fontaine: bad guy from the start
- Suchong: The Mad Scientist, and completely without conscience
- Steinman: Ended up barking mad, hiding in surgery
- Cohen: Another wacko, living in a dream in Fort Frolic
- Wilkins: Paranoid and locked himself up in a freezer, of all places

The women on the other hand, often started as bad, or ineffectual, but turned out to be both strong and Good Guys in the end:

- Tenenbaum: Created the Little Sisters, but then turned and tried to save them
- Langford: Worked on Agent Orange during WWII, and then ended up creating, and attempting to save, the forest in Rapture
- McClintock: Started out as girlfriend and fan of Ryan, but then joined Atlas against him
- Andersdotter: Not clear what she was before, but she had a daugher who was turned into a Little Sister, so she tried to assassin Ryan.

Nice catch; the women are the only ones to truly atone (or at least try to).
I'm not going to think too much into the lack of African-Americans. Hypothetically, the time period would still have ignorant prejudice.
That's as far as I'm going on this.

[doomsday cult]

my reponse to this has to be targetted insect swarm and wrench to the face. Equal rights are for everyone. As unpleasant as this is for some people, that means everybody.

[Happy Chappy]

i think poeple shouldnt ***** and play the game, who cares?

[Whitey_347]

the problem is some people (not all) take an insult and think its for a whole race, gender, nationality when its just aimed at them as an individual. If you want to get rid of any and all racism or sexism, then stop trying to make it about the whole female population or specific race when the insult is just for you. Feel good about yourself, you are unique, so dont classify yourself as one race or sex, classify yourself as an individual of the Human population

[headkase]

Many people worked hard on this game. They are probably as varied as any sample of people, just because this game lacks a diverse representation of ethnicities does not imply prejudice on the creators end. Be careful when stereotyping, the quickest way to demonstrate a lack of understanding is to say that all in a group are like this. This is a trap that many individuals fall into and it is a sad one. So, enjoy the game and realize that the lack of diversity is just a tempest in a tea-pot.

[Walter lebowski]

i do not think bioshock is sexist at all.like so many said "there are a lot of wiked men and a lot of good women. my point is there will always be people who want to be the victim i believe in = rights, some one said that bath rooms should not be separated by gender. i oppose this 4 two reasons #1 some people have kids that dont know how stuff works, and tiny kids in a locker room with the other gender openly nude would see stuff and #2 (crude content) we dont want people doing it doggy style in the bath room stall

[Dr.Jamming]

Women were thought inferior up until about 1970, and considering what time Bioshock is set in it makes perfect sense.

[Dr.BridgetteTenenbaum]

OMFG .... Its a GAME yes is sexist but WHO CARES not me .. if u tottaly love bioshock u wouldnt care... shame on u :(

[ATLAS IS WATCHING]

What the heck is wrong with some people? Any time you do a period piece you should be true to the times. Its right up there with the moron that sued Disney because the pirates on the Pirates of the Caribbean ride were sexually harassing the women. They were freakin' PIRATES!

that is so true.
i hate it how people blame video games, music and movies on violence and stuff..:rolleyes:
like how they blame street violence on Gangsta rap or suicide on heavy metal..

[killswitch5]

Back when BioShock takes place, it was a man's world. No surprise that men would be portrayed with the power. I think it is very true to the time period. :o

umm it still is and i stand by what i say that will change when we get a woman president *cough*2012 *cough* seems like the world will end when that happens

[MaeDay]

I would consider myself a feminist but this article just made me sigh heavily and roll my eyes. I have to wonder why the author took the time to pen it. Did they really not understand the game's time period? It's a tragic that women weren't level with their male counterparts at the time...however, it's fact. The game never claimed to take place in a modern context.

I also kind of frowned on the excerpt from The Fountainhead. It's very easy to take that one scene from the book and run around waving it above your head and scream proof of sexism. Reading the rest of the book will help you understand the "rape" (which I hesitate to call it).

"It is our moral duty; an imperative requirement — for all good men and women to actively refuse and fight back against such sexism whenever it reveals its ugly head, whatever the medium."

And I exercise that moral duty of mine by dismissing this article entirely.

[Circus of Values]

Regardless of the evidence the writer portrayed in the article, she (or he) is still a complete idiot. They don't even begin to realize exactly how many female characters there are, how very little it portrays males hurting females in the plasmid videos, and just how little of an understanding they have of the time period.

What a pointless waste of space.

[electrolaser]

also in the plamid videos quite often the women is attacking the man with a rolling pin/bottle and was defending himself which if you think about it is slightly mmisandrous

[Ryan's_Songbird]

I would consider myself a feminist but this article just made me sigh heavily and roll my eyes. I have to wonder why the author took the time to pen it. Did they really not understand the game's time period? It's a tragic that women weren't level with their male counterparts at the time...however, it's fact. The game never claimed to take place in a modern context.

I also kind of frowned on the excerpt from The Fountainhead. It's very easy to take that one scene from the book and run around waving it above your head and scream proof of sexism. Reading the rest of the book will help you understand the "rape" (which I hesitate to call it).

"It is our moral duty; an imperative requirement — for all good men and women to actively refuse and fight back against such sexism whenever it reveals its ugly head, whatever the medium."

And I exercise that moral duty of mine by dismissing this article entirely.


Ya I totally agree. I'm a girl and I just could not believe the blatant STUPIDITY of this article. The women characters were the strong ones in this game. Did the writer not see that????

[Dmaster305]

Feminism is the belief that women should have a choice to do with there life as they want....recently it has changed to the belief that women should not do what they want, but instead do what extremenists tell them to do

[Ai14]

Tenenbaum, the only female character in Bioshock? seriously? what about;
Angelina, Anna Culpepper, Anya Andersdotter, Brenda, Diane McClintock, Jasmine Jolene, Julie Langford, Marianne Dellahunt, Mariska Lutz, Masha Lutz, Tasha Denu. That's all the ones I remember right now, but they all have a role to play, and they're also in alphabetical order.
And saying that it's totally sexist, is wrong, it may be a little sexist because of the time setting but that's it, and that's what makes it so great.