Ties to Ayn Rand; Ties to George Orwell.

[boynamedSUE]

Hey everyone.

I'm getting more and more curious about the story, especially at the mention of these two behemoths of dystopian literature.

How many of you are looking forward to the story's ties to Objectivism, as well as ties to Orwell?

[Apostate]

Hey everyone.

I'm getting more and more curious about the story, especially at the mention of these two behemoths of dystopian literature.

How many of you are looking forward to the story's ties to Objectivism, as well as ties to Orwell?

Me me me me me me!

Well, I am a huge lit nerd, anyway, but where Bioshock is really getting me is its originality. We're used to seeing the socialist dystopia, of course, as in 1984--but I cannot recall any instance in which I've been treated to the exciting possibility of a capitalist libertarian dystopia, populated with geniuses nonetheless!

[Hatesink]

I like more complex themes in games (as long as it's not complex like invisable war was complex ;) ) :)

[jackinthebox]

hmm as far as i know, i can't find any connection to Orwell... i read 1984 and animal farm, but what do they have to do with Bx?

[2K Elizabeth]

while The Fountainhead is my favorite book of all time, and i read 1984 in about 10 hours...

I am most looking forward to bludgeoning people with a wrench.

:D

Hey everyone.

I'm getting more and more curious about the story, especially at the mention of these two behemoths of dystopian literature.

How many of you are looking forward to the story's ties to Objectivism, as well as ties to Orwell?

[Hatesink]

while The Fountainhead is my favorite book of all time, and i read 1984 in about 10 hours...

I am most looking forward to bludgeoning people with a wrench.

:DI'm in love

;)

Edit: My favourite book is The God of Small Things

[Raveness]

I'm still wondering why Ken refers to 1984 in his list of inspirational works for the game. I can only place it as a source of dystopia, as Rapture isn't a fascist police state.

@ Apostate: It's not libertarian, but objectivist. Rand would be the first to tell you they are not the same, she vehemently hated libertarianism.

[LowEnergyCycle]

I've always been a Whatthechuffian myself :p . You know... the sort of person who idly watches as people who know far more about politics and... stuff, jump right over his stupid head.

Don't get me wrong, I love books like 1984 and Brave New World, and I'm sure there's some interesting debates hidden, for example, somewhere inside Iain Bank's Culture novels. But I'm just a bit too dense to understand the between-the-lines guff, or keep track of all the -isms and their individual nuances.

So... er... :confused: I guess.

[witch]

Atlas Shrugged was great, thinking about naming my next dog Mr Rearden. Just finished Anthem a week ago.

[Apostate]

@ Apostate: It's not libertarian, but objectivist. Rand would be the first to tell you they are not the same, she vehemently hated libertarianism.

True, but while Objectivism and Rand are the obvious sources, I felt that it would be more suiting to (misuse) libertarian, since as far as we know Objectivism per se doesn't exist in the world of Rapture. Remember, we're dealing with Andrew Ryan--not Ayn Rand. :D

At any rate, I've often wondered about the 1984 connection. Perhaps it is true that the only theme the devs grabbed was that of a dystopia, only with commercial advertisements replacing the military propaganda. However, I entertained the thought that, since it has been said the game is about extremes, we will see Fontaine's side of the war as a more socialistic, Orwell-styled effort. Complete speculation, but interesting to think about! (For me, anyway.)

[Raveness]

Huh, never noticed before, but Andrew Ryan seems an anagram of Ayn Rand, with REW left over. You could re-arrange the letters to say "WE R AYN RAND" :D

[Apostate]

I'd gotten the Ayn Rand bit before, not the "WE R," but the plurality of that anagram raises many interesting (and probably groundless) routes of speculation!

But I am all for alternate history.

...As long as they don't turn it into a Harry Turtledove novel. Please, no.

[v.dog]

Ken has stated that Andrew is based on Ayn (hence the similar names), so it's highly likely that his views will also be Objectivist.

I just hope the references to 1984 (downer of an ending, I must say) don't include Newspeak.

Newspeak doubleplus ungood.

[Xerxes]

highly likely that his views will also be Objectivist.

I just hope the references to 1984 (downer of an ending, I must say) don't include Newspeak.



I hope they don't include a "love story" lol

[Hatesink]

I'm still wondering why Ken refers to 1984 in his list of inspirational works for the game. I can only place it as a source of dystopia, as Rapture isn't a fascist police state.Maybe there's stuff we haven't seen.

I've always been a Whatthechuffian myself :p . You know... the sort of person who idly watches as people who know far more about politics and... stuff, jump right over his stupid head...I'm just a bit too dense to understand the between-the-lines guff, or keep track of all the -isms and their individual nuances.

Personally, I think it's all just identity politics

...besides, when I close my eyes nothing exists (just more existentialist angst) ;)

It's a shame Rapture wasn't a hedonistic society :p

[v.dog]

I imagine it would have been in it's heyday.

[LowEnergyCycle]

Personally, I think it's all just identity politics

...besides, when I close my eyes nothing exists (just more existentialist angst) ;)

It's a shame Rapture wasn't a hedonistic society :p

Yeah... well... Thanks for clearing that up...:confused:

[Scabeater]

I hope they don't include a "love story" lol
On the contrary, the player has the ability to fall in love with, and eventually marry, one of the Big Daddies.

[Hatesink]

Yeah... well... Thanks for clearing that up...:confused:Essentially they're ultimately just points of view. If you had a convincing theory that people found valuable (a belief system or such, that helped them in some way) you could create your own 'ism' (and in years to come game developers might take inspiration from you).

[Eurhetemec]

I think anyone expecting a BioShock to be a "positive" commentary on the "uplifting social and moral aspects of Objectivism" is going to be in for something of an appalling disappointment, considering the entire idea of the game seems the revolve around the collapse of a "Rand-ian" society (i.e. one where the "great" are freed from the constraints of "normal" society, which is the basic idea behind the founding of Rapture), and the fact that the main "badguy" (or so seems) appears to have a name derived from Ayn Rand.

More likely it'll contain an implicit critique of such a society, I would suggest.

As for 1984, there are quite a few elements that may well draw on that, for example, we may well see history being "re-written" in places, general "information control", newspeak/doublespeak, perpetual war and the like. I can certainly see how people might have difficulty seeing the connection, as society seems to have ceased to exist almost entirely in BioShock. It might also be that Ryan is a "big brother"-ish figure.

Of course, it's not impossible that the reference to Orwell/1984 was made in error, and what he was actually talking about was Brave New World by Aldous Huxley, which would seem, potentially at least, far more relevant. People seem to confuse the two awfully often.

[Gabby_Hayes]

If those pressurized diving boots don't just put Oceania's finest stormtrooper footwear to shame I don't know what would.

[nmrahde]

I like that both LowEnergyCycle and Eurhetemec made comparisons to Brave New World. Did anyone else think that maybe Rapture is what happened to that colony of Alphas that Mustapha Mond was talking about?

[Pinky_Powers]

... I like this thread.