No special chinese military unit?

[QinShiHuang1]

The greeks have hoplites.
The romans have cataphracts (close enough to chariots).
The mongols have kershiks (close enough to mounted archers).
The japanese have samurais.
The zulus have implis.
The aztecs have jaguars.
The spanish have conquistadors.
The russians have cossacks.
The french have trebuchets.
The english have longbows.
The germans have panzers.
The americans have shermans.

These are all iconic units in history.

Why don't the chinese have anything in the game?

I say it should be uber archers. That is, crossbows and repeating crossbows were invented by the chinese and were key to the military power of ancient china.

[CoB BIGGY]

The greeks have hoplites.
The romans have cataphracts (close enough to chariots).
The mongols have kershiks (close enough to mounted archers).
The japanese have samurais.
The zulus have implis.
The aztecs have jaguars.
The spanish have conquistadors.
The russians have cossacks.
The french have trebuchets.
The english have longbows.
The germans have panzers.
The americans have shermans.

These are all iconic units in history.

Why don't the chinese have anything in the game?

I say it should be uber archers. That is, crossbows and repeating crossbows were invented by the chinese and were key to the military power of ancient china.
You act like Chinese are the only ones without a special unit. The Egyptians(not sure) and Indians don't have special units, either.
All I can say is get over it.

[Cipher 8]

Yeah, they could have those crossbow men but it doesnt make me not want the game any less...

As far as egyptians and indians when have they ever been known for military might... What would the egyptians special units be called...? Slaves...

[durecellrabbit]

Since most UU are just name changes, it doesn't really matter.

Yeah, they could have those crossbow men but it doesnt make me not want the game any less...

As far as egyptians and indians when have they ever been known for military might... What would the egyptians special units be called...? Slaves...

India had its share of empires and Egypt has been a major power at several points in history. Chariots instead of horsemen and elephants instead of knights.

[QinShiHuang1]

Historically, the chinese even discovered gunpowder, initially as an attempt to find a medicine, and then afterwards invented guns and rockets, but clung on to crossbows as an infantry weapon because of nostalgia or something.

Also, it was the great wall and crossbows that kept the nomadic horse raiders from the steppes out in the early years, and some say forced them westward. These nomadic peoples were the huns (attila the hun). As the huns moved west, they chased the goths out of their villages. ie, Arrows on horseback was the uber military technology for thousands of years. And the goths in turn moved towards rome and accidentally led to its demise.

After centuries of trying, the nomadic tribes from the steppes, now the mongols, did eventually conquer china, arguably twice. However, the person who did so the first time, kublai khan (genghis failed), eventually founded a chinese dynasty, ruled for a while, and was subsequently toppled by local peasants in a revolt.

The remnants of the mongol empire splintered (golden hoarde in russia; timurid in the middle east; etc) and subsequently were absorbed into local cultures, disappearing altogether as a force.

Thus, the cultural aspect of the game and the flipping of cities is great, gameplay-wise.

I just think since the english in the game have longbows, a super archer unit (agincourt and all that), the same could have been done for the chinese.

Great game nonetheless.

[RobC]

None of the civs have unique units. They only have the same standard units as every other civs but with just a different name.

[durecellrabbit]

Crossbows =/= Bows. Having a unit of archers called Chu ko nu would look silly.

[QinShiHuang1]

None of the civs have unique units. They only have the same standard units as every other civs but with just a different name.

Oh?! I didn't know that. Maybe it is just a part of the bonuses of the various leaders.

Examples
1. The english have +1 archer defence in ancient times and +1 naval combat in medieval.
2. The french have +2 cannon attack in the industrial era and +1 riflemen movement in modern times.
3. The japanese have +1 samurai knight attack in medieval times.

Etc.

Thus, a cannon in true napoleanic fashion can be a bonus but a trebuchet is just like a catapult.

[CoB BIGGY]

Oh?! I didn't know that. Maybe it is just a part of the bonuses of the various leaders.

Examples
1. The english have +1 archer defence in ancient times and +1 naval combat in medieval.
2. The french have +2 cannon attack in the industrial era and +1 riflemen movement in modern times.
3. The japanese have +1 samurai knight attack in medieval times.

Etc.

Thus, a cannon in true napoleanic fashion can be a bonus but a trebuchet is just like a catapult.

Arn't you supposed to be bawwwwing over the Chinese not having a special unit?

[QinShiHuang1]

Arn't you supposed to be bawwwwing over the Chinese not having a special unit?

Well, now I don't know if there is such a thing as a special unit.

Can anyone clarify this?

ie, +/- defence and attack under all circumstances

Or does it come down to the various bonuses that each group has?

[CoB BIGGY]

I believe a "special" unit is just a filler for a regular unit in a historic-esque way. That doesn't explain the damn hoplites though :( I hate them so much

[Sigmakan]

Aren't hopilites a replacement for pikemen? Greece does start with democracy which allows you to build pikemen. Its greece starting with democracy that sucks, not the hopilites themselves ;)

[QinShiHuang1]

Greece does start with democracy

A democracy would be godsend for a civ such as china in the game. ie, Science bonus.

But without uber archers, there's no way to mount a spirited defence to hold out until then.

Maybe I have to change tactics.

[FadingBeano]

Aren't hopilites a replacement for pikemen? Greece does start with democracy which allows you to build pikemen. Its greece starting with democracy that sucks, not the hopilites themselves ;)

No one is going to take Greece out early with those flipin hoplites.... They have to be the Hardest Civ to dominate early game. Greece can sit back and Tech Slam the early game.

[Thrallia]

the only difference between the unique units and the normal units is the name. No difference in attack, defense, nothing.

@OP: The roman Cataphracts were a specially armored knight...not a chariot. As for why there isn't a special chinese named unit for crossbows...it is because there are no normal units like a crossbowman.

[durecellrabbit]

A democracy would be godsend for a civ such as china in the game. ie, Science bonus.

But without uber archers, there's no way to mount a spirited defence to hold out until then.

Maybe I have to change tactics.

Normal archers are perfectly fine at defending early game. Thats what most of the civs in the game do. Greek's hoplites cost 50% more than archers. This means they need to spend long getting defence up even if that defence is better. The English get defence 3 archers but no democracy.

[Rastak]

Arn't you supposed to be bawwwwing over the Chinese not having a special unit?



Is everyone in Mississippi a jackass or are you unique. Get off his back.

[QinShiHuang1]

Get off his back.

It's all good. Nobody is "bawwwing". I think he was trying a soundbite. China bashing is all the rave.

My namesake doesn't help.

Qin Shi Huang was ruthless and probably cruel. But, in his time, he was a brilliant military strategist. He conquered the warring states, founded a single country and gave it his name.

He probably conscripted a whole bunch of people to work on the wall, which was a defence issue. Okay, the terracotta statues - that was an unnecessary, ego thing. But it might have been that the workers were remunerated, after all China was abundant agriculturally. Plus, there's evidence it was all manufactured in parts, implying less effort than otherwise.

Be that as it may, history is replete with ruthless conquerors. I suppose this is why the game is satirical.

However, there was once a great leader, Lincoln, an erstwhile Illinois senator by the way, whom I'd say fought a righteous war and united the states of America.

[Harrycombs]

Lincoln also allowed his cabinet members to take bribes. Great leader:rolleyes:

[QinShiHuang1]

Lincoln also allowed his cabinet members to take bribes. Great leader:rolleyes:

The point is that the yanks defeated the confederates.

[Harrycombs]

But there wouldn't have been a confederacy if Lincoln was elected.

And if it was righteous because the war "freed the slaves," it wasn't either. They were still in the lowest position of the social hierarchy, and were still slaves because of their slave wages. Their position didn't improve much at all, and hundreds of thousands died.

[QinShiHuang1]

But there wouldn't have been a confederacy if Lincoln was elected.

(Sorry 2K, one last parting gesture.)

First, regarding my avatar, yes, it is supposed to be provocative. I'm not saying that The Mummy 3 is anti-China. There is no evidence of Qin Shi Huang's life and rule, except for something that was written hundreds of years after his death, and of course, the archeological finds. Hence, a lot about him is conjecture. He may have been "evil". The movie stars Jet Li and Isabella Leong: how much anti-China could it be?

Second, there are as many hawks as there are moderates and reformists in China. There was a power struggle and even flawed intelligence reports - sounds familiar? - amongst the power brokers in the weeks leading up to the Tiananmen nightmare.

Third, aggression is mostly coming from the American side: the arms embargo, the Hainan incident, the bombing of the Chinese embassy in Serbia, the sending of aircraft carriers to interfere in the China-Taiwan situation, which it must be said is a byproduct of an unresolved civil war.

Fourth, Taiwan has since voted in democratic elections for closer ties to China. And did you know that at a local level in China, government officials are now elected rather than appointed?

Fifth, the riots of Tibet. Hmmmm... By the way, Tibet became a part of China during the Yuan dynasty, 700 years ago. California and parts of Texas were annexed to America in more recent times by comparison.

Sixth, the stationing B2 stealth bombers in Guam. Hostile, but at the same time, an admission that no conventional American plane can now penetrate China's air space.

Seventh, don't assume that China's conventional forces are weak. 3000+ planes, including Su 33's and the indigenously built J-10 interceptor, vs the America's 7000+ planes. Anti-satellite weapons that can level the playing field. Diesel subs, with keel busting torpedoes. Subs, by the way that can penetrate a naval carrier group undetected. Jin-classed nuclear powered subs that can stay active for a long while. Sovremny destroyers with Sunburn anti-ship missiles: missiles that no one can yet counter. Each time, China is pushed, the hawks and the military get more funding. Eventually, a military industrial complex might emerge and then it would be unstoppable.

Eighth, China has 160 cities with populations over 1 million; America has 9. Is a nuclear exchange winnable?

China's vested interests remain with a peaceful, prosperous, global economy.

(And with that I'll retire from online play. The game of civ rev is a lot of fun. Unfortunately, I suck at it. Otherwise I could have done... MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!)

[2K Elizabeth]

i hope to see you back online after you get some more experience under your belt! try SP or unranked games, maybe that will help without so much pressure.

good luck!

[PrivateJohn]

Maybe what the developer want you to do with the Chinese in the game is...
Quantity > quality, thus the lack of unique units?:o

The ability of them to expand city with +1 population is really great. So use it to your advantage & expand earlier which is really good for long term.

[Matrix49G]

No one is going to take Greece out early with those flipin hoplites.... They have to be the Hardest Civ to dominate early game. Greece can sit back and Tech Slam the early game.

Sure you can, just attack every other turn, heal inbetween. If I have a problem, most of the time i use a strong attack to weaken the defence pushing button 'x' to retreat, while using the next unit to attack again. Bousnus attack if your on a hill. The easier way is using a spy to disrupt defence units, and have a fleet of catapults to take them out with realetive ease.

[PrivateJohn]

You know by retreating, you gave the opponent unit alot of experience which usually granted them an instant level up. You only do that unless you are 100% you have alot of army outside the base with each attack able to kill at least "1 heart".

[Matrix49G]

You know by retreating, you gave the opponent unit alot of experience which usually granted them an instant level up. You only do that unless you are 100% you have alot of army outside the base with each attack able to kill at least "1 heart".

I know, but it takes 3 retreats for that to happen. As I have been playing the demo, the AI does not attack another AI opponet, so I figured all the experince it gets is from you fighting, not the computer fighting itself. I could just let them kill the unit, but what would be the point if they get the experince reguardless.

My unit dies = experince to AI
My unit retreats = experince to AI + I keep my unit.

[Krikkitone]

No a retreat gives 3 'experience'= 1 promotion

so unit dies=1 experience to AI
unit retreats = 3 exp to AI +keep unit

[Matrix49G]

No a retreat gives 3 'experience'= 1 promotion

so unit dies=1 experience to AI
unit retreats = 3 exp to AI +keep unit

Well in the demo I retreated 3 times, and it showed the enemy being upgraded, not after 1 retreat.

[Thrallia]

in the demo, I retreated a whole bunch against the zulu's and aztecs and eventually wore down their entrenched archer armies with my novice legion armies...they didn't seem to level up after my retreats.