Project facade vs Bioshock?

[Howard TD]

http://www.projectfacade.com/

Original source

http://666kb.com/i/aq3dw5k76ez02mnp5.jpg

Artwork

http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/4852/bioshock200706071105476pl3.jpg

Game

http://files.xboxic.com/xbox-360/bioshock/bioshock-screen-2.jpg

http://360.advancedmn.com/images/media/bioshock_032.jpg

[Da Bubs]

uh, whats this about, you have a bunch of pictures but I dont really get the point. All I got out of this is that the Bioshock team may or may not have looked at pictures of disfigured people before making the game.

[poopypooperson]

Well that was disturbing... so these facial reconstructions were actually done to WWI veterans?

[poopypooperson]

uh, whats this about, you have a bunch of pictures but I dont really get the point. All I got out of this is that the Bioshock team may or may not have looked at pictures of disfigured people before making the game.I think it's evident that they did. Knowing some people actually looked like this just makes the game's atmosphere that much more immersing.

[snEEkie Villain]

Well that was disturbing... so these facial reconstructions were actually done to WWI veterans?

it would seem so, yes.

I think it's evident that they did. Knowing some people actually looked like this just makes the game's atmosphere that much more immersing.

you think? you know! i don't know what Da Bubs was talking about. Ditto.

i think what the OP was trying to say is that 2K and Irrational Games stole a picture of a real live reconstruction patient OR got it agreeingly.

[Da Bubs]

I think it's evident that they did. Knowing some people actually looked like this just makes the game's atmosphere that much more immersing.

well this howard guy didnt say anything so Im a little confused, did he just come across that picture or what? if he did, the only thing I have to say is that someone owes him a cookie

[Shakura Jolithion]

On the other hand,t here's only so much you can do with 60s style technology and facial reconstruction and still look creepy.

[lurchibald]

hmmm you could be right


http://www.projectfacade.com/images/table_side.gif
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/3528/bioshock200706071105294jp1.jpg

[lurchibald]

I think it's evident that they did. Knowing some people actually looked like this just makes the game's atmosphere that much more immersing.

the teeth are the same if you look closely

[lurchibald]

the teeth are the same if you look closely

scratch that, its pretty much a more disfigured replica:eek:

[TrebleX]

creeeeeepy...

[Nias Wolf]

Well, this just added a whole new level to the creepyness of the game. They even copied the ear of that poor man. I would like to know what someone on the Irrational team has to say about this.

I would also like to hear how the OP came across these photos...

[poopypooperson]

Well, this just added a whole new level to the creepyness of the game. They even copied the ear of that poor man. I would like to know what someone on the Irrational team has to say about this.

I would also like to hear how the OP came across these photos...They would have had to have gotten a confirmation from that website, the similarities... well, they're identical. It will be interesting to see what Irrational says now that they know that we know where they got the disturbing faces from. This just excites me even more the level of detail they put into the game, that these portraits existed before! Should make it even scarier playing it in the dark at midnight because of all of this historical depth to the design, every scary movie is scarier when they say it's based off of a true event.

[Nias Wolf]

I would really like to hear from Irrational, because this is just too mentally stressfull. I would like confirmation from Irrational that they paid (or made donations) to use this information, or else this is just sick. My love of BioShock has withered some from this question.

[poopypooperson]

I would really like to hear from Irrational, because this is just too mentally stressfull. I would like confirmation from Irrational that they paid (or made donations) to use this information, or else this is just sick. My love of BioShock has withered some from this question.Well if they blatantly copied it, I'd expect a lawsuit of some sort. They wouldn't be so dumb to just copy it, the makers of the website would obviously notice right away.

[lurchibald]

I would really like to hear from Irrational, because this is just too mentally stressfull. I would like confirmation from Irrational that they paid (or made donations) to use this information, or else this is just sick. My love of BioShock has withered some from this question.

pfft i think one of the reasons of using this is that they wanted the "plastic surgery" of the time to be as historically accurate as possible from the time period

[snEEkie Villain]

I'm afraid that you all know too much.........too much, too..much....to...live!!

[chrono legionaire]

I'm afraid that you all know too much.........too much, too..much....to...live!!

Dont worry ill erase them... like they never existed


(seriously play Red Alert 2 so you guys get these)

[That_dude]

Maybe we should PM Mr. Levine to give us an answer on this.

[lurchibald]

Maybe we should PM Mr. Levine to give us an answer on this.

well its far too late to really do anything about it now, and if they decided to delay the game i would be devastated and hunt down all those responsible:mad: , but seriously what does it matter they are just being true to the time

[I love Mr Bunny]

Wow, seeing that they actually have truth to those... disfigured people will make the game that much scarier. I am freaked out indeed, but I don't get why people are saying that it's bad to copy. If it was a common practice at the time, and not just certain special cases where this happened, then I would think it is just sticking to the time period.

[Nias Wolf]

No, I just feel a little bad that we are using these poor souls (who fought in a war by the way) for entertainment. If I was disfigured horribly, and saw my face being portraid as a monster, I would be greatly offended.

[I love Mr Bunny]

No, I just feel a little bad that we are using these poor souls (who fought in a war by the way) for entertainment. If I was disfigured horribly, and saw my face being portraid as a monster, I would be greatly offended.

Good point. But I'd be surprised if they are still alive

[Raveness]

This could have provided "inspiration" for the splicer part of the game. I hardly see how that is a negative thing, given it has been applied to a videogame, and not something of consequence. I hardly think this forum needs any 10-minute activists getting all uppity about it, considering the source of Bioshock is inside a kind and generous man who would not have meant any offense.

They are eerily similar, and I think the narrative will explain how people of the time would get disfigured by the institutions meant to safeguard them.

[Nias Wolf]

Good point. But I'd be surprised if they are still alive

Well, they arn't, but they may still have families.

[Nias Wolf]

I know, I need to calm down. I'm just a little disturbed at the moment.

[That_dude]

I know, I need to calm down. I'm just a little disturbed at the moment.

Me too. Whatever though, if I didn't see them, they're not there. The ostrich syndrome!

[lurchibald]

Me too. Whatever though, if I didn't see them, they're not there. The ostrich syndrome!

ive been a prisoner of this game for a while, i have Stockholm's syndrome :D

[Nias Wolf]

Honor the dead people. And honor soldiers too.

I just want to keep that in mind.

[Raveness]

You don't honor anything by stirring up hypocritical battles over small misunderstandings or an innocent lack of knowledge.

Don't drag this topic down. It is another cherry showing Irrationals foresight on studying the games sources :)

[Nias Wolf]

Stop trying to shoot down what I say please, I think it was you that wanted to keep this forum from being a chat room.

All I wanted to say was that I didn't want to see somebody from Irrational fired for wrongly using photos of people that had disfigurments.

I think that we should all keep in mind that these were real people, and not just a random character in a game. You certainly don't honor somebody by using the image that was thrust upon them, and calling them a monster.

I can perfectly understand that using photos of people from a certain time, and with certain dysfigurments can make a game seem so much more real. I was just preturbed that I had not heard a comment from Irrational showing these facts. I just hope that nothing is wrong here.

Sorry for my rant, I hope you can understand why I had to get it off of my chest. If not, please forgive me.

[I love Mr Bunny]

I know what you mean, but I don't think it's that wrong, it's just what some people did in that time, and Bioshock is using it. If it was a specific person or two, then we have a problem, but the website looked like it was many.

[MultiVaC]

I doubt they looked at that particular guy and said "omg he is one ugly son of a *****! i would love to blow his head off in a video game ololololololololol!!!111!". Keep in mind that his face was constructed in that picture and is probably what many other early attempts at facial reconstruction looked like. Being accurately designed, it's not surprising you will see some similarites between Spilcers and actual photos.

[Nias Wolf]

Good point, thanks. That was what I was trying to say (only I made it overly complicated, like I often do).

[I love Mr Bunny]

I doubt they looked at that particular guy and said "omg he is one ugly son of a *****! i would love to blow his head off in a video game ololololololololol!!!111!".

HAHAHAHAHHA! You deserve the whole jar of cookies!

[Raveness]

Nias, I'm only shooting down what you say because it comes off as something an agitator would say.

There is hardly any evidence that any materials were abused by Irrational development, and its naeive to think the longtime studio would not know what they are doing. Ken and CO are certainly more on top of the various facets of groups that may be tickled by Bioshock. They don't need to comment about it because there is nothing to say beyond "yes there is where we drew some inspiration".

It pisses me off to no end to have to hear unwarranted worrisome commentary directed at something that shouldn't have to waste time defending itself over narrow-minded exxagerations.

[poopypooperson]

No, I just feel a little bad that we are using these poor souls (who fought in a war by the way) for entertainment. If I was disfigured horribly, and saw my face being portraid as a monster, I would be greatly offended.Portraid as a monster? They never said the Splicers were monsters in the game. They are humans and they physically altered their bodies to stay alive in the world, given the tools of surgery back then, that's the best representation of what you could do (and to look relatively human). The Splicers are innocent people too, you know, they've just been overpowered by Adam, where they have no control anymore on how to behave (a melodramatic approach on people with addiction to anything) like a normal human being, to the point they actually start losing their humanity. I find it more depressing to see the people and how Rapture took advantage of them, Ken said in the 22 minute video that you can hear them having conversations with themselves as though they're talking to their children or friends. They're not monsters by any means.

[Nias Wolf]

Fine, fine, like I said, all I hope is that you understand my concerns. This forum should be a place where we can expres such concerns.

I am sorry that I came across as a narrow minded aggitator. And I am sorry that I jumped to conclusions. I was trying to look at it from the viewpoint of the relatives of these people, and I apparently failed.

Sorry (to moderators), sorry (to Irrational), sorry (to fellow posters), and sorry (to anyone else offended).

[Mr.Bubblez]

Guys lets just think rationally for a second here...

In doing research for a game that is set in ~1950-1960, artists at IG could have possibly looked at real photos of facial reconstructions from that time period. Whats wrong with that? I do not understand the responses in this thread.

[Nias Wolf]

I thought that they would have changed them so that the didn't resemble any person in particular, just a person with facial reconstruction from that era.

[Mr.Bubblez]

I thought that they would have changed them so that the didn't resemble any person in particular, just a person with facial reconstruction from that era.

look at the final model in the game. just look at it. there is absolutely no resemblance between the original photo and the final product. in the concept sketch there is definitely some resemblance but there are still significant differences.

its unbelievable that we're even discussing this. sorry dont mean to be harsh...

[Nias Wolf]

*dies* *combusts* *explodes*

I feel like an idiot... :o

[Raveness]

Could we get back to a more pleasurable discussion on this stuff? I'd like Ken to reply about this.

Anyone else wonder if leprosy has affected the splicers at all? I wonder if plasmid overruse will show some side effects that relate to conditions you'd find in Taber's, like the flaking skin of a splicer nearing death.

Perhaps a scripted scene showing an addict splicer having some major withdraw symptoms, only for us to watch him/her make their way back to the Bank.

[That_dude]

Could we get back to a more pleasurable discussion on this stuff? I'd like Ken to reply about this.

I PMed him, hopefully he'll get on and reply. Hopefully.

[Mr.Bubblez]

I feel like an idiot... :o

YOU ARE NOT AN IDIOT. i shouted it because i strongly feel that you are not an idiot. lets all be friends. guess what time its is? group hug time!!!!

http://www.northernbrigade.com/files/uploads/395/group-hug.jpg

[Nias Wolf]

Bubblez, I am no longer comfortable with my masculinity...

I would immagine that if Adam is addictice (at least psychologically), there would be serious side effects from not taking it.

[Sandstorm]

Wow, some of the pics on the site were pretty crazy. Creepy stuff

[godot]

I remember a similar discussion years ago during the development of SW:KotOR. Bioware's art department mentioned that actress Kate Beckinsale had inspired the image of Bastila Shan. Does anyone honestly believe that Kate Beckinsale might have had a case for unlicensed use of her likeness?
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/2626/bastilabeckinsalenj2.jpg
The concept art for Bioshock was quite obviously inspired by the 90 year old images from Project Facade. But IG isn't sell concept art. They are selling a game in which the facial textures for a few characters was developed from concept art that was inspired by some 90 year old images. The final product ends up being twice removed from its already obscure original source.

So what? :cool:

[I love Mr Bunny]

We all understand it, stop bashing him, he already learned his mistakes.

[godot]

We all understand it, stop bashing him, he already learned his mistakes.
What are you referring to? It's been at least 10 hrs since anyone has come anywhere close to being "bashed" in this thread. :confused:

[not_john_galt]

I need to say something. To say this picture wasn't an inspiration is absurd.

Look at the original photo. Look at the nostrels and the shape of the ears. Look at the teeth. It isn't a remarkable likeness. It is the same. The teeth are at a different angle but it looks like the exact same thing.

Look at the second tooth from the left. Look just under it. There is a shiny looking thing which the drawing has! It is harder to see but it is there.

Having said this, I don't think there is any problem using it as inspiration. I am suprised Ken Levine hasn't pointed this out as it deepens the moral grey areas.

I also think it does an injustice to turn these peoples tragedys into unspeakable horrors, although shooting them might be something else entirely.

[GoofyAce]

What are you referring to? It's been at least 10 hrs since anyone has come anywhere close to being "bashed" in this thread. :confused:

I think what he means is, stop stating all the ways Nias may have been wrong. It's like pointing and laughing at a kid for getting a question wrong, just get off his back. They may have used it for inspiration but we all know now thats as far as it went, now lets change the subject.

[Priest]

I felt bad that I didn't notice the photo was of a veteran at first. I thought it was just conceptual art for the game to be honest, a very interesting source of inspiration for the developers indeed.

[godot]

I think what he means is, stop stating all the ways Nias may have been wrong. It's like pointing and laughing at a kid for getting a question wrong, just get off his back. They may have used it for inspiration but we all know now thats as far as it went, now lets change the subject.
I know what he means. I just wanted to know what comment he was referring to, especially because his post followed mine and nobody had "bashed" anyone for over 10 hours.

My comment was about potential legalities that were considered in another discussion for another game, many years ago. It was certainly not a "bash" against anyone here. And if some member wants another member to keep his opinions to himself (or to change the subject of a discussion) then he should take it up with a moderator.

[Howard TD]

I need to say something. To say this picture wasn't an inspiration is absurd.

Look at the original photo. Look at the nostrels and the shape of the ears. Look at the teeth. It isn't a remarkable likeness. It is the same. The teeth are at a different angle but it looks like the exact same thing.

Look at the second tooth from the left. Look just under it. There is a shiny looking thing which the drawing has! It is harder to see but it is there.

Having said this, I don't think there is any problem using it as inspiration. I am suprised Ken Levine hasn't pointed this out as it deepens the moral grey areas.

I also think it does an injustice to turn these peoples tragedys into unspeakable horrors, although shooting them might be something else entirely.

yes it's the same

http://premiumcola.googlepages.com/sovra.jpg

[CodeMonkey]

Well, it's clearly more than just "inspiration," it looks like the artists traced his character's face directly from the original photograph. Here is a morph going from the artist's drawing to the actual photo. I superimposed the artists drawing over the original photograph and was amazed at identical they were.

Look at the ears, they never change, that's because they are an exact copy, as is the nose and the teeth. But the eye is what seals the deal.

I don't really see anything wrong with this though, the artists needs to get inspiration from somewhere and his final work, while based on an actual photo, would be his own.

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/9309/morphra4.gif

[Bioshock_FTW!]

Yeah there's definitely a 'striking' likeness here...heheh

but I can't say in good conscience that the creative team at Irrational found these images and just 'stole' them. There had to have been some kind of contact between the two sources; I think they'd know how much of a legal war they'd end up in over something as sensitive as this without asking permission first.
I'd appreciate some kind of official response. *cough2klizcough*

:)

[godot]

I think they'd know how much of a legal war they'd end up in over something as sensitive as this without asking permission first.
Well I don't see any legal war. Perhaps you could explain it to me if it's so obvious.

You can start by telling us what legal entity holds the copyright of that 90 year old image. I looked across that site and saw no indication anywhere of copyright notice. Most of the images come from an old hospital archive. If by chance they ever were copy protected then someone would have had to renew their copyrights in 1947, 1975 and 2003 to keep them from falling into the public domain.

[Bioshock_FTW!]

Well I don't see any legal war. Perhaps you could explain it to me if it's so obvious.

You can start by telling us what legal entity holds the copyright of that 90 year old image. I looked across that site and saw no indication anywhere of copyright notice. Most of the images come from an old hospital archive. If by chance they ever were copy protected then someone would have had to renew their copyrights in 1947, 1975 and 2003 to keep them from falling into the public domain.

The images are from somewhere is all I'm saying. Most licensing these days requires only that the original source is credited. If these images were in the public domain, than chances are good I'm talking out of my ass; and there's a good chance of that, since whoever created project facade had permission to use them too.

[godot]

Ok, all legalities aside for a moment...

Did IGN label that concept art TOASTY?
If it was Irrational's idea then I gotta say it was in poor taste.

[Raveness]

Even if it was a legal issue, do you think it wouldn't dawn on companies like Irrational & 2K that they would have to obtain permission? Those companies have legal departments whose whole job it is to iron these things out.

Stop bringing up a non-issue. Jeezus its like every forumite who thinks about legal ramifications thinks they've stumbled upon it themselves.

[poopypooperson]

Ok, all legalities aside for a moment...

Did IGN label that concept art TOASTY?
If it was Irrational's idea then I gotta say it was in poor taste.Why exactly? It's a name...

[Nias Wolf]

Well, I sure over reacted. I thought that someone from Irrational stumbled upon those pictures and thought "Wow! That guy looks just like a crazzy addicted splicer! *snatch*". (No offece, like I said, over reaction)

But now I can see that they wanted real pictures to understand how the game would feel depending on what the Splicers looked like. Right? Anyways, I am so glad that these characters do not appear in the current version. I don't want to be shooting real people, I want to be shooting "generic nazi #142" (or similar).

I wansn't so much concerned about the legality, as the morality.

Sorry for all of that, I just wanted to clear the air. Lets all be friends. :)

[Gauln]

On any sort of legality issue of this... I imagine photos like these are in the public record by now, and if not, well, their use in the concept art could probably be argued as fair use of the material.

As for the ethics of it all, as Nias has pointed out... it is a bit difficult, but so is the whole notion of harvesting the LS.

As for the quality of the work, and the attention to detail, IG has once again outdone themselves. Clearly, facial reconstruction techniques are in heavy use around Rapture (as that is the sole use of the medical pavilion after the mainstream use of Adam occurs), so making them appear in period, works very well for the game. Although, these are WW1 techniques, are they not? I'm guessing the field of facial reconstruction hadn't progressed much in the 30-40 years between WW1 and the founding of Rapture...

[Nik]

this is creepy, is the team going to awnser?

[Newbeing]

I don't really see how this is more or less disturbing then shooting germans in a WWII game. Do you think German soldiers never existed or were never real people with families and lives?

So what if Irrational directly used that image? Having reference really settles it closer to reality, thus making it creepier and more disturbing.

I don't know if you can exactly call it copying the gentleman's image since I'm sure he didn't look like that before WWI. Irrational seems to be focusing more on the imagery of the reconstruction- not the individual.

[Nias Wolf]

I was saying that shooting some random guy who probably doesn't resemble anyone in particular, makes me feel better than shooting somebody who I KNOW looked like they do in the game.

Yes, Irrational's attention to detail is quite impressive. :D

[godot]

Why exactly? It's a name...
Just a name, huh? What if the concept art was based on a Holocaust victim and they named it "RABI"? In my opinion, naming a concept image "TOASTY" when it is heavily based on the photo of a tragic, real life burn victim is in poor taste.

[I love Mr Bunny]

Just a name, huh? What if the concept art was based on a Holocaust victim and they named it "RABI"? In my opinion, naming a concept image "TOASTY" when it is heavily based on the photo of a tragic, real life burn victim is in poor taste.

Ummm... I agree calling it TOASTY is a bit cruel, but RABI seems just fine to me.

[poopypooperson]

Just a name, huh? What if the concept art was based on a Holocaust victim and they named it "RABI"? In my opinion, naming a concept image "TOASTY" when it is heavily based on the photo of a tragic, real life burn victim is in poor taste.We aren't fighting WWI veterans in this game, we're fighting people that were surgically enhanced so to survive in the harsh environment Rapture. The game's depression and horror qualities are masked by an extreme dark humor that further incites the insanity running rampant within Rapture's borders. Part of this dark humor is the spiteful nicknames given to these miserably derelict people, it's evocative of freak shows and human zoos, if you will. Of course it's cruel! Nobody should be mocked for features they can't control, are they going to be mocked though, without a question! Cruel, yes, but only because it's realistic based on human nature to discriminate those who don't look like us.

Would it really be that much better if they based these pictures off of their imagination and still made fun of the underprivileged? Does it really matter where they came from? They're still people.

[godot]

Ummm... I agree calling it TOASTY is a bit cruel, but RABI seems just fine to me.
Spelling Correction: "RABBI" not "RABI" [I spent too much time in Europe ;) ]

I don't mind anyone using these real life sources for their game art, but the material should be handled with due respect. The resultant concept art and certainly the final NPC designs should preserve the anonymity of the original victim and make no reference at all to their real life personal ordeal. Remember, they're designing monsters using images of people who were not monsters, so there's no need for the monster's name to remind us of who those people were.

[poopypooperson]

Spelling Correction: "RABBI" not "RABI" [I spent too much time in Europe ;) ]

I don't mind anyone using these real life sources for their game art, but the material should be handled with due respect. The resultant concept art and certainly the final NPC designs should preserve the anonymity of the original victim and make no reference at all to their real life personal ordeal. Remember, they're designing monsters using images of people who were not monsters, so there's no need for the monster's name to remind us of who those people were.These are not monsters, though.

[godot]

...are they going to be mocked though, without a question! Cruel, yes, but only because it's realistic based on human nature to discriminate those who don't look like us.
I'm not sure you caught my meaning:

Mocking game NPC who disfigured himself = not bad taste.
Mocking real life people disfigured in tragedy = bad taste.

Hope that's clearer. :)

[poopypooperson]

I'm not sure you caught my meaning:

Mocking game NPC who disfigured himself = not bad taste.
Mocking real life people disfigured in tragedy = bad taste.

Hope that's clearer. :)How do you know that his melted skin wasn't from altering his body? I doubt they're directly channeling the original WWI veteran.

[Shakura Jolithion]

We aren't fighting WWI veterans in this game, we're fighting people that were surgically enhanced so to survive in the harsh environment Rapture.
Weren't they genetically enhanced to fight eachother, and got surgery to cover up their scars and look more normal?
The game's depression and horror qualities are masked by an extreme dark humor that further incites the insanity running rampant within Rapture's borders.
What dark humor? I haven't read about any, can you please point me to references so I know what sort of stuff I'm buying?

[JoJonathan]

I remember a similar discussion years ago during the development of SW:KotOR. Bioware's art department mentioned that actress Kate Beckinsale had inspired the image of Bastila Shan. Does anyone honestly believe that Kate Beckinsale might have had a case for unlicensed use of her likeness?
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/2626/bastilabeckinsalenj2.jpg
The concept art for Bioshock was quite obviously inspired by the 90 year old images from Project Facade. But IG isn't sell concept art. They are selling a game in which the facial textures for a few characters was developed from concept art that was inspired by some 90 year old images. The final product ends up being twice removed from its already obscure original source.

So what? :cool:

Yea True, and I really do like star wars games!

[gughunter]

What dark humor? I haven't read about any, can you please point me to references so I know what sort of stuff I'm buying?

This isn't especially dark, but I love the advertisement that shows a winking housewife using a heat plasmid to fry a pan of bacon. Better living through technology!

[punkedfloyd]

These are not monsters, though.

Actually they are monsters.

It is however inhumanly cruel to mock someone's own tragedy with a name like "Toasty". They are adults over there, right? The Irrational team should have a little more maturity and sensitivity.

[Gauln]

Actually they are monsters.

It is however inhumanly cruel to mock someone's own tragedy with a name like "Toasty". They are adults over there, right? The Irrational team should have a little more maturity and sensitivity.

While the evidence is compelling, we can't be totally certain that the name "Toasty" was given to that concept art because of being a burn victim.

[Chowster44]

.................................................. ...


Wow...I knew the game looked good but those in-game pictures are the most amazing thing I have ever seen in my entire life! Again...I thought the game looked good just not that good!

[godot]

While the evidence is compelling, we can't be totally certain that the name "Toasty" was given to that concept art because of being a burn victim.
Then let's put it this way: Regardless of the reason behind the name, knowing the source image was a real life burn victim it was in poor taste not to avoid calling him something like TOASTY, Mr BBQ, FRY GUY, or anything else that had the potential to mock his real life tragedy. If they could name the one NPC "WADER" because of what he's wearing then they could have referred to "TOASTY" as PATCH because of his one eye being covered.

[Gauln]

Then let's put it this way: Regardless of the reason behind the name, knowing the source image was a real life burn victim it was in poor taste not to avoid calling him something like TOASTY, Mr BBQ, FRY GUY, or anything else that had the potential to mock his real life tragedy. If they could name the one NPC "WADER" because of what he's wearing then they could have referred to "TOASTY" as PATCH because of his one eye being covered.

True enough... Sadly, I don't think my moral compass is strong enough to make me not buy the game due to this, but yeah, its kinda of in poor taste....

By the way, have you looked at some of the other concept art that is up on some of the sites, alot of it is pretty creepy (ie, the Rosebud concept).

[godot]

True enough... Sadly, I don't think my moral compass is strong enough to make me not buy the game due to this...
Mine neither. ;)

"I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints." -- Billy Joel

[Raveness]

Wait, who called the splicer concept "Toasty", IGN or Irrational?

If it was the former it wouldn't be a surprise at all. IGN is renowned for shock-value wordplay. If the latter, I bet its a harmless naming convention they used for early development. We humans tend to identify things through the most crudely laconic means, even though we mean no disrespect at all.

[Nemos]

To bump an old post - just watched the making of DVD and Nate Wells confirms that Ken Levine found the Project Facade site and that is where a lot of the splicer art came from. Not that there was any question about it, but just to confirm :P.