We should compare GTA IV with Mafia II ? Is better or Is just only an adaptation?

[Dbeat]

I been watching some articles about of the competition of Mafia II with Grand Theft Auto IV and I think that based on the GTA Mafia is similar but diferent jeje you know in GTA you're focused on being xtremely violent and in Mafia althought you can kill everyone who is in front of you, in some way you're limited by the personality of the character, you know in GTA you have some elements of the character his attitude, etc.. but in Mafia the history is more profund and you know better the character so you can kill everyone but it wont match with the personality of the character..

[Artefactas]

... I think that based on the GTA Mafia is similar but...


Based on GTA? I thought Mafia was in development earlier, but GTA 3 was released sooner. :cool:

[Fugue]

Based on GTA? I thought Mafia was in development earlier, but GTA 3 was released sooner.

yeah it was, has been said before but comparisons are inevitable though to me they are completely different games.

Mafia was meant to be very movie like, was all about the plot, story & characters, GTA is more about the freedom to explore a world (which was never particularly believable unlike Lost Heaven) & cartoon mayhem, though from what I've read GTA4 is supposed to be more story focused so GTA4 is based on Mafia....;)

GTA will appeal to the masses, Mafia 2 will be a little more niche, I just hope the reviewers avoid too many comparisons this time and review Mafia 2 for what it is, and not what they think it is trying to be, Mafia 1 was never trying to be GTA, only stupid game reviewers thought that :D

[Styvesant]

yeah it was, has been said before but comparisons are inevitable though to me they are completely different games.

Mafia was meant to be very movie like, was all about the plot, story & characters, GTA is more about the freedom to explore a world (which was never particularly believable unlike Lost Heaven) & cartoon mayhem, though from what I've read GTA4 is supposed to be more story focused so GTA4 is based on Mafia....;)

GTA will appeal to the masses, Mafia 2 will be a little more niche, I just hope the reviewers avoid too many comparisons this time and review Mafia 2 for what it is, and not what they think it is trying to be, Mafia 1 was never trying to be GTA, only stupid game reviewers thought that :D

This is true, but how many other big games can we really compare it to? The Getaway? Driv3r? not really I would say, however Mafia and GTA are somewhat similar in gameplay, and story line, even if they're in two completely different categories.

[Fugue]

GTA games never really had much of a story though did they? at least not in the way Mafia did, in Mafia the story was the game.

the trouble is that Mafia was released at a time when GTA had already caused a big fuss & was widely applauded by the gaming press, Mafia got some stinkers..

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=3777

afaic it was just as an important release as GTA because it took story telling in games to another level (and has yet to be bettered imo) , you really cared about the characters, but seemed to me the press didn't get what Mafia was trying to do, and it's because they still had GTA tinted glasses ;)

what makes me laugh the reviewer above confesses to being a gangster movie fanatic and still didn't get it, no accounting for taste :rolleyes:

[Styvesant]

This is true, did Mafia come out when Vice City did? Can't really remember. You are right about GTA not being able to to compare to Mafia, in terms of story telling, something which I think, most games cannot do, IMO.

There's a difference between a gangster movie fanatic that likes the action in it, or the whole story behind the action. Hence the reason I liked the movie Millers Crossing, and many didn't, just to give an example.

[Fugue]

This is true, did Mafia come out when Vice City did?

GTA3 was out about a year? before Mafia I think, VC was released shortly after, I know IS went to great lengths to explain Mafia was in development for a long time & was not copying anything but I think it fell on deaf ears.

Never been a huge fan of the GTA games myself (though currently waiting for GTA4 to be delivered ;) ) & never actually finished any of them, lost count how many times I've completed Mafia and still go back to it regularly.

[ThaCrip]

i think people above made alot of great points about the differences between Mafia and GTA series.

lol @ that guy who claimed to be a big gangster movie fan but failed to like mafia... i think that is part of the reason why i like mafia so much.... and yes i also agree with some of the comments said above about how story telling is one of the best in a video game for mafia as it's easily better than GTA's are.

i got GTA4 (on XBox360... i wont be able to get the most fun from it though til pc version comes out) on the 28th.. and it's 'pretty good' and even though graphics improved and all i still think it has that same ol GTA feel to it which for alot of people that will be a good thing but after playing GTA4 (im not super far into it but a moderate amount) im SURE ill like MAFIA 2 better (especially if it keeps the general feel of MAFIA1 which i dont see why it wont) (especially on PC since i prefer playing shooter type games on PC cause of it's superior aiming)

the characters in GTA series even though overall good, lack that sophistication etc etc that MAFIA's characters (the boss/sam/paulie/tommy etc etc) have. (i to am a big mob movie fan ... godfather/goodfellas/casino/scarface/carlito's way/Road To Perdition (feels like mafia for sure!, cause of it's old days feel to it) etc etc etfrickingcetra lol)

even though like people said GTA and MAFIA are generally different games i think one of the main reasons that people compare them and i agree in general is there both third person type shooters with driving in it along with a big area to drive around in.

also i think MAFIA's weapons feel is also alot better than GTA's which feels more arcadey.... weapons in MAFIA also feel alot more powerful to ;)

also i pretty much agree with the guy who said "i played all the gta games but never finished them but i cant count how many times i replayed mafia"

cause even though i beat all the prior GTA games i never really 'replayed' those and while i cant know for sure how many times i replayed mafia, im guessing it's been a good 5+ times ;)

and it's like people said GTA has a wider appeal , while mafia always seems to be dissed or kept on the downlow ... i would never have known about mafia if it where not for a guy i met online a while back and told me about it saying it was sorta like GTA... then i gave it a shot and when i first started playing i was like this sorta sucks (near beginning where you have to drive those 5 ish people to there destinations) but not long after that it started to pick up and was a fricking video game masterpiece by the end of the game ;) (still one of my all time favorite games to date)

to sum it up GTA series and MAFIA series are the ONLY good games of there type out there if you ask me... cause stuff like Driv3r/Godfather (game) those pretty much sucked cause they seemed crappy made and seemed like a GTA/Mafia run off on top of it... cause GTA and MAFIA have there own feel to them that no one can copy and be good at it ;) ... cause GTA has it's name established (sorta like apple with it's ipod to mp3 players) and MAFIA is well MAFIA (to bad not alot of people know about it it seems)

and another thing... i like those 'old days' feel to mafia which i think gives it another edge over GTA if you ask me.

[Styvesant]

Exactly, I mean The Godfather game, jesus that sucked so bad lol, it's not even funny, and GTA and Mafia are like the only contenders in their league. Let's just put it this way, for me it's like comparing an apple to an orange IMO.

Mafia, is my all time favourite game as well, and that's saying something.

[Pantsless]

Don't put the word Mafia and the word GTA/Godfather in the same sentence please :D
Mafia is waahaaaaaay better than any of those.

[ArchangelX]

I have only played GTA III on the pc and I don`t own a console.
I`ll probably get GTA IV if it gets released on the PC and I think I will like it as well from what I have seen.

The driving seems at least a little bit more realistic this time, and the vast number of features seems very appealing to me and I am curious about it.

However the screens I have seen for Mafia 2 at this point floors GTA IV graphics, of course a PC version of GTA IV could close that gap somewhat.
Graphics have never been a huge thing for me, I don`t mind it but playability is the first priority.
However now with the nex-gen I will admit I probably will be a bit more picky then before.

I think both games will have good stories and so on, but at the core of its gameplay from what I have seen on in-videos of GTA IV it is like the other games in the series.
I still get this cartoon, gun-ho impression going totally anarchistic in the gameworld feeling, its fun, but it isn`t my gamestyle of preferance.

Of course one can shape the impression of a game in the way one chose to play it, as in painting something totally different in the space where you paint the picture, but it won`t change the frame is the best way I can explain it.

I am older now as a gamer and I prefer the most realistic\serious approach to the games I play.
My favorites consists of the older\hardcore R6 titles, Operation Flashpoint and the H&D series besides the original Mafia.

And I would in all honesty be puzzled if that would be the preferance to alot of GTA players if we were to compare.
Not that one can not enjoy both, I am sure I will if I play GTA IV but preferance is something entirely different and from what I have seen so far I doubt if GTA IV will get the upperhand on Mafia 2.
I will try not to be biased though.

Key points for me if I will ever compare them is :

- Story
- Graphics (especially when we talk about vast "living" areas as Liberty, and Empire city)
- Driving physics (very important for me)

[Styvesant]

I'll admit too that graphics and overall physics are very important to me, however if a game has an awesome story, then I can overlook graphics, to a point, meaning I will not play Doom 1 ever again, even if they remade it, with some kind of World Winner story, just an example though.

GTA Vice City, had cartoony graphics, and was not really a bad play, but Mafia got left behind in terms of reviews, like it never existed. Even to this day, if you ask someone, have you played Mafia, they're like "what's that?" lol

[Fugue]

The driving seems at least a little bit more realistic this time, and the vast number of features seems very appealing to me and I am curious about it.

got GTA4 this morning (360) and it is v good, funny as hell :D and the driving/physics are excellent, only got an hour in so not done much but have to say the level of detail in the game is :eek: the amount of stuff you can do is crazy & does make the world seem very real.

[Styvesant]

Don't put the word Mafia and the word GTA/Godfather in the same sentence please :D
Mafia is waahaaaaaay better than any of those.

Hahaha true, but I doubt Mafia will sell as many copies as GTA IV will, because most people don't even know about it, bad publicity, hence the reason we put it up there with the 'big dogs'

[Pantsless]

Hahaha true, but I doubt Mafia will sell as many copies as GTA IV will, because most people don't even know about it, bad publicity, hence the reason we put it up there with the 'big dogs'

I know... plus, lots of people like the funny cartoon-style of GTA. I don't. I like the way mafia is: simulating a real-life environment. I guess the fact that the action takes place in the past (and not in the boring present) helps too :)

[Styvesant]

Mmm, but judging by the screenshots, i don't think that they have done too badly now, but Vice City, was cartoon galore.

[Pantsless]

San Andreas was just as bad. But hey, maybe GTA IV is better, who knows? I ain't buying a console to see that. I dislike the fact those at R Games are IGNORING the PC platform. If it will come out on PC too, i fear it would be too console-like, badly optimised etc. Cause they designed it especially for consoles, unlike the cool Mafia devs that focused on PC :D

PS: I guess you noticed how much i "like" consoles. First of all I hate that gamepad, initially designed for KIDS. Then the console is only used for games and nothing more. The PC is...well, it can be used in various circumstances, it's not only for playing. But of course, this is only how i feel, it has nothing to do with reality; many enjoy consoles and they have the right to :)

[Styvesant]

Yeah true, PCs are PCs and whilst many actually game on them, consoles are just seen as oil rigs in my opinion, and thats all good, I don't really give a fudge, but all the Mafia games, HAVE TO BE ON PC FIRST! Or at least, same day release. Mafia devs are true gamers, unlike EA BLEH!

[Fraz]

First of all i think we should understant one thing that in Mafia many game
features were derived and improved from GTA so GTA does have the credit of
originating many new things and hence it has a very huge fan base due to all
the new exciting orignial stuff ...

The players who have played Mafia including myself agree that Mafia was
very good and impressive and it was better in so many ways than GTA due
to the Story, Plot and excellent gameplay ...

So i expect the same from Mafia II i would not mind even if they derive
something new from GTA 4 but keep it upto the standards as they did it
in Mafia I ...

[Pantsless]

Dude? Mafia 1 was developped simultaniously (or almost) with GTA III. I don't think gta 3's features were included in Mafia. BUT even if that happened, how can you say Mafia II could have GTA IV's features included? The devs started working on this before those at Rockstar games did on GTA IV and they already have experience, working on the second game of it's kind, I don't think they'll use other game's features.

[Styvesant]

Too true, who says that GTA is something that everyone is trying to rip off, how about Driver being in production before GTA, coming out later than GTA though, and being called a copy of a sort. GTA or no GTA, Mafia would still be the same to this day.

[P_e]

Too true, who says that GTA is something that everyone is trying to rip off, how about Driver being in production before GTA, coming out later than GTA though, and being called a copy of a sort. GTA or no GTA, Mafia would still be the same to this day.

Yes, but, Driver was gunning it fully 3D whilst GTA was top down.

[Styvesant]

Exactly. So we can say that GTA is a DRIV3R rip-off, but then where would it stop lol

[Dbeat]

well GTA is the creator or at least the more popular of this "system" of playing since GTA in 2D so oviously GTA was more earlier than Mafia

[Dbeat]

I think that the important think of this comparation is that in GTA the story is more superficial in the all GTA i've played (vice city,III) well i dont know how is the story of GTA IV but in Mafia they introduce you deeply in the story because of the personality of the characters, the enviroment, music, aaall are special details that make you feell diferent that in the GTA and someones may say that the GTA IV is changed and the story is more complete...yes but in the begining the game who started that gameplay is MAFIA that is the game who firstly cared about the story, the small but important details yeah maybe is based on GTA gameplay but Mafia is the one ho maked that type of game realy interesting is one of a few games that make me feel something I dont know ..that feeling of nostalgia, when it's over and the words "THE END" appear on the screen

[Styvesant]

I think that the important think of this comparation is that in GTA the story is more superficial in the all GTA i've played (vice city,III) well i dont know how is the story of GTA IV but in Mafia they introduce you deeply in the story because of the personality of the characters, the enviroment, music, aaall are special details that make you feell diferent that in the GTA and someones may say that the GTA IV is changed and the story is more complete...yes but in the begining the game who started that gameplay is MAFIA that is the game who firstly cared about the story, the small but important details yeah maybe is based on GTA gameplay but Mafia is the one ho maked that type of game realy interesting is one of a few games that make me feel something I dont know ..that feeling of nostalgia, when it's over and the words "THE END" appear on the screen

True. But for some people, Need for Speed is better than a true racing game, so I guess this debating is pointless, GTA just seems to be a favourite to a lot of people.

[Fraz]

Dude? Mafia 1 was developped simultaniously (or almost) with GTA III. I don't think gta 3's features were included in Mafia. BUT even if that happened, how can you say Mafia II could have GTA IV's features included? The devs started working on this before those at Rockstar games did on GTA IV and they already have experience, working on the second game of it's kind, I don't think they'll use other game's features.

i m not saying that they will use other games features ... my point is they may
include and implement some ideas and new things from GTA IV ... secondly
timeframe of game release does matter but i think game developers are / should
aware of what others are doing in order to be competitive in every sense at the
end of the day ...

BTW i just watched some clips of Physics effects in GTA IV and those are
very nicely done i hope the same for Mafia 2 as well ...

[Styvesant]

i m not saying that they will use other games features ... my point is they may
include and implement some ideas and new things from GTA IV ... secondly
timeframe of game release does matter but i think game developers are / should
aware of what others are doing in order to be competitive in every sense at the
end of the day ...

BTW i just watched some clips of Physics effects in GTA IV and those are
very nicely done i hope the same for Mafia 2 as well ...
hehe, we don't have to hope :P just have some faith. :P

[Fugue]

physics in GTA4 are good, but the cars are only ok to drive, in terms of driving I think Mafia is still the only game of its kind where the cars are spot on, takes a little while to learn but it just feels right.

the cars in GTA4 are still quite tricky, handling is better but they roll too much imo and it makes cornering too much of a guessing game, using the handbrake really takes some getting used to.

might just be me spending too much time watching the TV shows in the safe house rather than driving :D but Mafia is still king when it comes to car physics.

[paci182]

Mafia was always better and will be, i like GTA but its sh*t compared to mafia

[mg198242]

well GTA is the creator or at least the more popular of this "system" of playing since GTA in 2D so oviously GTA was more earlier than Mafia
In a way you're right, but not entirely! I mean in the late 80s, early 90s there were 2D games more or less like that, with shooting, spacecrafts, cars, humans etc, so it's hard to say that GTA 2D it's the innovator because many features of GTA 2D you could have found in other games, or you could have found another game that to a certain extent was like GTA 2D. Anyway GTA series has the upper hand, it's obviously, and (almost) everybody now say that any other sandbox game is a GTA copy but this mainly due to the fact that people are not informed and then in 7 years the 3D GTA series already sums up 6 games in the series, while Mafia (series!!!), in more or less the same amount of time, considering the moment the game started to be developed, sums only 1 game, so 6-1 is....

[Styvesant]

well when you think about it, not many people have actually heard of the game Mafia, and many still believe that anything to looks a bit like GTA is a GTA rip off, such games would be Ganglands, Escape from Paradise City etc, so that is crap all over.

[ArchangelX]

physics in GTA4 are good, but the cars are only ok to drive, in terms of driving I think Mafia is still the only game of its kind where the cars are spot on, takes a little while to learn but it just feels right.

the cars in GTA4 are still quite tricky, handling is better but they roll too much imo and it makes cornering too much of a guessing game, using the handbrake really takes some getting used to.

might just be me spending too much time watching the TV shows in the safe house rather than driving :D but Mafia is still king when it comes to car physics.


Thats the impression I had from watching some more videos, it seems they don`t have the heft to them and go flying to easy.
I watched a video where a car went over the top of a hill and it looked like it had a jet-engine with an afterburner :D
The car physics is like the SECOND most important feature for me in Mafia 2 after the story couse I have been so spoiled by the original.

[Styvesant]

Lol in mafia when your car lifts up from the ground, you felt like you were going to break down right there, like the titanic flew or something lol

[Kubilay_Han]

I think they are very different games. MAFIA is based on 1930-40-50's old gangsters and their crime story. GTA is based on a guy who wants to go to the top of the crime organizations. MAFIA has got a deep and tragic story. GTA has got more free & long story.

Niko Bellic want to live free in America. He came to the America fo ''American Dream''.

Vito want to survive in this cruel life. He just want to earn money & live in peace like Tommy Angelo.

[Styvesant]

The whole genre is what we're referring to.

[Dbeat]

so everyone have their own likes, someone likes more gta for its freedom others like mafia because of his story but in my opinion I like more the games with a good story and of course an exelent gameplay than an exelent gameplay more freedom, more irrealistic, but with a not so elaborated story so the two games are good but is only your likes that separe this two great games.

[Craftworth]

lol http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/761/71708a9c46439520eeof2.th.jpg (http://img216.imageshack.us/my.php?image=71708a9c46439520eeof2.jpg) ))))

[BioShockWins]

Nice. You didn't need to make it quite that small though.

But very cool none the less.

[mg198242]

lol http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/761/71708a9c46439520eeof2.th.jpg (http://img216.imageshack.us/my.php?image=71708a9c46439520eeof2.jpg) ))))
Cool! What should we understand from this picture:

- Mafia II owns GTA IV
- Vito (&Co) owns Niko
- Vito simply executes Niko
- Vito's too coward to face Niko and shots him from behind
??!??!?!?!!

[BioShockWins]

If you are standing in that position, Niko is probably on his knees.
The only reason (that makes sense in context) he would be doing that, is that Vito beat up Niko, or at least over powered him.

And Niko won't necessarily die in this image... he could be released with relativley no harm done.

If he cooperates.

[Fugue]

but with a not so elaborated story so the two games are good but is only your likes that separe this two great games.

true, there is a BIG difference in the two games (Mafia vs GTA) and it's simply what is at the heart of the game, with Mafia it's all about the story & not so much freedom but it had to be linear.

GTA is really the other way around, the story in GTA4 is better but the scale of what you do in the city tends to put the story in the background, by the time I've finished messing about watching TV, dating, eating, shopping, bowling etc etc etc I've forgotten why I'm killing the nest target ;)

guess that'll be the tricky bit, keeping the balance between giving players the freedom they want and keep the story flowing as it did in Mafia1.

[sosaited]

Cool! What should we understand from this picture:

- Mafia II owns GTA IV
- Vito (&Co) owns Niko
- Vito simply executes Niko
- Vito's too coward to face Niko and shots him from behind
??!??!?!?!!

No.

- Mafia II owns GTA IV (Of course!)
- Vito owns Niko
- Vito wants Niko to feel when someone is pointing a Gun to your head (For all the atrocities he committed)
- Niko is too afraid to face the gun, so he has turned away
- Vito forgives Niko, but makes him rot in Jail
Yeahhhh :)

[Styvesant]

Nicely put lol

[Mettle]

GTA Vice City, had cartoony graphics, and was not really a bad play, but Mafia got left behind in terms of reviews, like it never existed. Even to this day, if you ask someone, have you played Mafia, they're like "what's that?" lol

This is probably going to be the biggest hindrance to Mafia 2's success, GTA IV was very hyped up compared to Mafia 2 and the "gaming journalists" swallowed the hype-bait hook, line and sink. I don't doubt it's good, but 99% average? lollerskatez.

So Mafia 2 will likely get lower reviews, atleast from the console magazines - if the PC Magazines does the same we will see, if GTA IV is even released for PC by Mafia 2's time.

Time will tell, atleast I'll save my money for Mafia 2!

[sedlbob]

I quess there will be more of freedom in Mafia II (than in original):cool: :D
I've read there will be money in the game and some stuff to buy, you'll be able to buy own car, guns. This make me inteding about the situation. You'll be able to buy cars, yeah but I quess nobody do it during just started mission, so you'll have to buy it after mission.
So there is a "free-life" part of the game when you don't have to do a mission (and you also can choose not-main story-line missions) but you are living your own like in GTA, or what. In original Mafia if you started a game you was already playing a mission, no free-life (this was separately processed in the free-run).

[Styvesant]

But that's one thing that Mafia does so well, which is tell a story. I really do not mind playing linear story games, if they have something to say, which GTA never really did to be honest.

[sedlbob]

I agree, but you'll be able to do voluntary missions and I can't imagine how you could choose it in linear story. I really agree that too much freedom in a game means interuption of a story and that is the main part of the game, next to atmosphere.
But I also just wanted to turn myself off and relax with driving or st. so I'm waiting for the FreeRun again. And Maybe this part of the game could be about money and respect too. In this part of mission could be some objectives too, but you know, you don't have to do them.

[Styvesant]

Sidequests are not bad, and some free-roam, but in moderation, cos too much just gets you bored of the game, and the story itself suffers.

[ArchangelX]

Sidequests are not bad, and some free-roam, but in moderation, cos too much just gets you bored of the game, and the story itself suffers.

But its all about options, one player might want to play as quickly through the main story without using the potential side missions. Another one will chose to so.
As I said in another post if we have the options to indeed do side missions in between main story missions then all the others that don`t want to have to do would be to not do them and that would cost them an extra drive to where the main story missions progress.

Would a small drive intervene that much ?

[mg198242]

But its all about options, one player might want to play as quickly through the main story without using the potential side missions. Another one will chose to so.
As I said in another post if we have the options to indeed do side missions in between main story missions then all the others that don`t want to have to do would be to not do them and that would cost them an extra drive to where the main story missions progress.

Would a small drive intervene that much ?
I tend to agree with you. In Mafia we also have side missions that, if you want, can skip: Lucas Bertone missions, and where if you complete them succesfully he gives you the hint for a new car. One of my friends skipped all those missions and... no problems!

[Styvesant]

lol it must've took your friend a while to get to places without the sports cars, I think they were essential, cos the other normal cars, man they sucked.