Internet activation?

[Necros]

So, we know from the official requirements that the game will require internet connection to activate the game. But it raises some questions.

1. What about those who don't have internet at home?
2. How is this going to work?
3. Can you play the game after reinstalling Windows?


It may be a "pain in the *ss" kinda thing, so I hope it'll work well...

[Psyclone]

4: Will it also be present in the Xbox 360 version?

[BioShockWins]

let's hope there is a different option for bioshock other than internet activation... whatever that may be..

[501105]

And it should be a simple click and check thing no dozen rows of numbers to put in or any of that.

[BioShockWins]

4: Will it also be present in the Xbox 360 version?

uhh... what?

[Donelop]

So, we know from the official requirements that the game will require internet connection to activate the game. But it raises some questions.

1. What about those who don't have internet at home?
2. How is this going to work?
3. Can you play the game after reinstalling Windows?


It may be a "pain in the *ss" kinda thing, so I hope it'll work well...

ok why would you have a computer and not have internet, it like having ice-cream cone without the ice-cream.

[CodeMonkey]

4: Will it also be present in the Xbox 360 version?

I don't think so. The 360 already has security built into it. That's not to say if you DO have internet security they won't download patches.

[CodeMonkey]

Man I hate this no edit... no good writer EVER gets it right the first time.

...no internet CONNECTION...

[Donelop]

So, we know from the official requirements that the game will require internet connection to activate the game. But it raises some questions.

1. What about those who don't have internet at home?
2. How is this going to work?
3. Can you play the game after reinstalling Windows?


It may be a "pain in the *ss" kinda thing, so I hope it'll work well...

well if you really dont have internet connection, then get it for 360, if you dont have a 360 then buy it. ;)

[BioShockWins]

well if you really dont have internet connection, then get it for 360, if you dont have a 360 then buy it. ;)

no offense, but I don't think a lot of people are going to spend an extra three hundred odd bucks after upgrading their PCs because they couldn't spend $30 on internet for a month =P

[Necros]

well if you really dont have internet connection, then get it for 360, if you dont have a 360 then buy it. ;)
I've got internet connection, I'm here, right? :D But there are many others who don't have it. And they should be able to play with the game too... Or they'll have to buy the game and then get a crack some ways. But maybe because of that not all the functions will be avalaibe for them on Vista for example.

And about the X360, not everybody likes consoles. ;)

[BioShockWins]

And about the X360, not everybody likes consoles. ;)

keyboard are teh win

also, you can just hook up your 360 controller to your pc o.O
That's what I'm gonna do some time... maybe

[Donelop]

I've got internet connection, I'm here, right? :D But there are many others who don't have it. And they should be able to play with the game too... Or they'll have to buy the game and then get a crack some ways. But maybe because of that not all the functions will be avalaibe for them on Vista for example.

And about the X360, not everybody likes consoles. ;)


well im not talking about you lol i no you have internet but for others who dont.

[Necros]

well im not talking about you lol i no you have internet but for others who dont.
I know, I just had to write that down. :D But beleive it or not, there are many people who can't afford the internet at home. I'd be one of them if it wasn't for my good friend. :) And there are those who don't need it or don't want it. But they'd love to play with the game too. ;)

But let's wait for some official word about this before worrying or going mad.

[Raveness]

This should really only affect rural population of gamers, and even they should have at least sattelite or dial-up to fallback on.

Having a PC that can play Bioshock but cannot connect to the Internet doesn't make sense. Also affording a PC that can play Bioshock but not being able to afford basic internet connectivity doesn't make sense. These just don't parallel each other, and I doubt it's more than a small minority effected. I don't see it as "many" people in the target markets.

[BioShockWins]

your internet dies with five minutes left on the instalation...
oh ****

[Laser Eyes]

Posted this in the PC specs thread but since this is a thread devoted to online activation I'm posting them here too.

Take-Two/2K/Elizabeth, a few questions please.

1. I notice you don't mention the "S" word. So can you confirm that you are not using Valve Software's Steam program?

2. Is there additional software, separate from the game, that users will have to install on their computer? If yes, what is it? Will this software have to be running in the background every time I play BioShock or will I only have to run it one time only to activate the game?

3. What information about me or my computer, if any, is collected during online activation of BioShock or at any time thereafter?

4. Can I install BioShock on more than one computer at a time, if I own more than one computer eg. PC and notebook? Is there any limit to the number of computers, owned by me, on which I can install and activate my legitimate copy of BioShock?

5. Suppose I regularly reformat my hard drive and reinstall Windows to keep my system operating at optimal efficiency – If I reinstall the game can I activate BioShock again after a reformat and is there any limit to the number of times I can activate BioShock?

6. Once I activate my copy of BioShock online is there a file I can save to use after a reformat so when I reinstall BioShock I don’t have to go through the online activation again? In other words, if I have been through online activation once, if I have to reinstall BioShock later can I activate the installation offline myself for the future?

7. What happens if Take-Two/2K goes out of business and the online activation facility terminates? Will Take-Two/2K provide some guarantee (or even a statement of intention) to customers who have purchased a licence to play BioShock indefinitely that should Take-Two/2K go out of business a patch will be provided to make online activation unnecessary?

8. Why didn't you announce that the PC version of BioShock would require online activation at the same time that the pre-order program commenced (or earlier) so that nobody without an internet connection would buy a game they can't use? What are you going to do for the customers who pre-ordered BioShock without knowing that an internet connection would be required and who don't have one?

9. How long does the online activation procedure take?

10. Are there any compulsory downloads involved in activating BioShock online such as patches etc?

11. Is there an alternative form of activation provided to customers who do not have an internet connection?

[BioShockWins]

Posted this in the PC specs thread but since this is a thread devoted to online activation I'm posting them here too.

Take-Two/2K/Elizabeth, a few questions please.

1. I notice you don't mention the "S" word. So can you confirm that you are not using Valve Software's Steam program? I've never used Steam to download a game, but I don't know if it makes that much of a difference. Point is: we won't know until we know

2. Is there additional software, separate from the game, that users will have to install on their computer? If yes, what is it? Will this software have to be running in the background every time I play BioShock or will I only have to run it one time only to activate the game?If such software exists it most likley will be a one run thing, just like activation codes. It just doesn't make sense any other way

3. What information about me or my computer, if any, is collected during online activation of BioShock or at any time thereafter?All it is will be a CD/DVD specific code that shows you didn't steal the game. Also, there might be a quick pole where you basically tell them your favorite genre or favorite franchise of games.

4. Can I install BioShock on more than one computer at a time, if I own more than one computer eg. PC and notebook? Is there any limit to the number of computers, owned by me, on which I can install and activate my legitimate copy of BioShock?Vista has some sort of... regulation for this. You can if you have Vista. I havn't ever done this with XP, but as long as you still have your code and internet acsess it is almost a deffinate yes

5. Suppose I regularly reformat my hard drive and reinstall Windows to keep my system operating at optimal efficiency – If I reinstall the game can I activate BioShock again after a reformat and is there any limit to the number of times I can activate BioShock?Like normal games, the sky should indeed be the limit

6. Once I activate my copy of BioShock online is there a file I can save to use after a reformat so when I reinstall BioShock I don’t have to go through the online activation again? In other words, if I have been through online activation once, if I have to reinstall BioShock later can I activate the installation offline myself for the future?Interesting, but not something we'll know until a few weeks until the release

7. What happens if Take-Two/2K goes out of business and the online activation facility terminates? Will Take-Two/2K provide some guarantee (or even a statement of intention) to customers who have purchased a licence to play BioShock indefinitely that should Take-Two/2K go out of business a patch will be provided to make online activation unnecessary?I wouldn't think that is a problem, but you should indeed have legal ownership of your product as long as you regerstered it. If you have to do anything at all.

8. Why didn't you announce that the PC version of BioShock would require online activation at the same time that the pre-order program commenced (or earlier) so that nobody without an internet connection would buy a game they can't use? What are you going to do for the customers who pre-ordered BioShock without knowing that an internet connection would be required and who don't have one?It probably has a lot to do with how Games for Windows works. It might have been something either IG, 2K, or MicroSoft overlooked/forgot about. I'm sure they are sorry for the inconvienience.

9. How long does the online activation procedure take?Probably the same amount of time it does to open an internet browser.

10. Are there any compulsory downloads involved in activating BioShock online such as patches etc? If patches are needed, I'm sure they are for issues not expected by IG, which will be fixed ASAP after one of us reports the problem.

11. Is there an alternative form of activation provided to customers who do not have an internet connection?Like most games, MicroSoft or 2K will probably sponsor some sort of activation over the phone as stated earlyer on this thread


I answered these questions to the fullest of my knowlage, I hope they helped

[shozk]

Damn it! This means that I can't play Bioshock! How can they expect EVERYONE to have an internet connection?!? Personally, I think the internet is a complete waste of time. Seriously. Idiots.



;)



The most iroic part about this whole thing is that the internet requirement is only posted online so far.....:D :D :D

[BioShockWins]

Damn it! This means that I can't play Bioshock! How can they expect EVERYONE to have an internet connection?!? Personally, I think the internet is a complete waste of time. Seriously. Idiots.



;)



The most iroic part about this whole thing is that the internet requirement is only posted online so far.....:D :D :D

what they don't know can't hurt them, right... right?

[Raveness]

Whether you agree with it or not, they made a (hopefully) conscientious decision to choose the loss in sales from those unwilling to buy because of the Internet requirement, over the loss they believe they'd get from pirates not having this obstacle.

[lurchibald]

Whether you agree with it or not, they made a (hopefully) conscientious decision to choose the loss in sales from those unwilling to buy because of the Internet requirement, over the loss they believe they'd get from pirates not having this obstacle.

come on this aint gonna deter pirates (if anything they will try harder with it since its such a well known game on the net ATM), and sure i dont condone Piracy (though no-cd cracks have protected a LOT of my original game cd's)

[Raveness]

come on this aint gonna deter pirates (if anything they will try harder with it since its such a well known game on the net ATM), and sure i dont condone Piracy (though no-cd cracks have protected a LOT of my original game cd's)

Whether it will deter pirates enough to satisfy 2K, I dunno, but neither you nor me are qualified or have researched it enough to make that determination. Since this was tacked on to the game, I'm assuming someone made a knowledgeable decision rather than a reactionary one.

[Laser Eyes]

BioShockWins, I appreciate your effort but I would prefer an official response from someone in 2K who can give definitive answers.

[Necros]

Whether you agree with it or not, they made a (hopefully) conscientious decision to choose the loss in sales from those unwilling to buy because of the Internet requirement, over the loss they believe they'd get from pirates not having this obstacle.
I doubt it will stop the pirates, it will only be a problem for those who want to buy the game.

[Nias Wolf]

It could be that they want everybody to have the newest patches installed?

[CodeMonkey]

Copy protection is a sticky wicket. Publishers and financial backers demand it but it's useless against people that aren't going to buy your software anyway. What it does is make sure the people that were going to buy your software do. It's easy to say copy protection doesn't work but people that complain about it are usually the people that are going to steal your program anyway.

Ironically I always download no-CD/DVD cracks because it's annoying to have to dig through my disks to find the install disk; which is why I like an Internet activation/CD check. In this scenario you can either install the game and have the game check via the Internet to see if the game is legal and then no CD/DVD is needed to play. Or, if you have no Internet connection you have to have the disk in while you play until you DO have an Internet connection and it can check. This way if you install the game when you're on the road (no Internet) you can still play but if you install it at home (with Internet) and then go on the road you don't need the disk.

[Valerio]

Hi all.


Internet activation for BioSHock it's a very bad choise, BS is a SP game, I pay 50 Euro(in Italy) to buy the game and after I cannot play immediately? I don't want the annoyance of the activation for a SP game. If Bioshock require the internet activation , I dont' buy it, sorry. :mad:

[lurchibald]

Hi all.


Internet activation for BioSHock it's a very bad choise, BS is a SP game, I pay 50 Euro(in Italy) to buy the game and after I cannot play immediately? I don't want the annoyance of the activation for a SP game. If Bioshock require the internet activation , I dont' buy it, sorry. :mad:

hi, welcome to the forums, but i have to tend to agree with you, this internet activation for a sp game is damm right moronic

[Derangel]

hi, welcome to the forums, but i have to tend to agree with you, this internet activation for a sp game is damm right moronic

As long as they don't follow Stardock's example (you are not allowed to sell your copy of GalCivII. You are not allowed to make a back-up copy. You are not allowed to give the game away. You are not allowed to give your Stardock account to another person for use. If you do ignore these rules and sell, or give away, your game disc the recipient MUST pay Stardock money for a new CD that can be used once and once only. If you reinstall the game you had better remember your account name and password, otherwise you will have to pay for a new key), I'm fine with internet activation. Even on single player only games. Activation is one of the better copy protection schemes out there as it usually doesn't require too many hoops to jump through (once again, see GalCivII for bad examples of activation). I really like the way Steam does it, but I doubt Take-Two would want to invest in the server space that would require.

[Freddo]

I don't mind internet activation at all. This probably means there's no need to use the game disc while playing the game, which is how it should be.

There are a few questions I have about how it will work, though, but the main one would be if this activation is a new part of Microsofts Games for Windows® initiative? If that's the case then it will probably become the norm for PC games in a not too distant future. And if that's the case it will probably also require a Games for Windows LIVE subscription. Good thing silver subscriptions are free.

Just pure speculation from me :p

7. What happens if Take-Two/2K goes out of business and the online activation facility terminates? Will Take-Two/2K provide some guarantee (or even a statement of intention) to customers who have purchased a licence to play BioShock indefinitely that should Take-Two/2K go out of business a patch will be provided to make online activation unnecessary?
This is my main worry regarding internet activation. I play a ton of "old" games that were released 10+ years ago. Recently I've been playing quite a bit of Master of Magic, for example. Anyway, many excellent games were made by companies that doesn't exist anymore, nor do those who do exist provide any support for their old titles. So how will things work 10+ years from now when I want to replay Bioshock? It's quite possible I would be forced to download some sort of crack to be able to play it, which is not a good thing.

[Valerio]

Internet activation it's only violence to damages the people who buy the original game, but the people who have an illegal copy paradoxicalally will not have problems, who as me buys the original games deserves them a better treatment. instead not therefore. ok, I will buy the game if I will be able install them and to play it without activation. contrarily, -50 euro in less for you.

i have disposed to spend 50 euro but without these annoyances.

[Laser Eyes]

As long as they don't follow Stardock's example (you are not allowed to sell your copy of GalCivII. You are not allowed to make a back-up copy. You are not allowed to give the game away. You are not allowed to give your Stardock account to another person for use. If you do ignore these rules and sell, or give away, your game disc the recipient MUST pay Stardock money for a new CD that can be used once and once only. If you reinstall the game you had better remember your account name and password, otherwise you will have to pay for a new key), I'm fine with internet activation. Even on single player only games. Activation is one of the better copy protection schemes out there as it usually doesn't require too many hoops to jump through (once again, see GalCivII for bad examples of activation). I really like the way Steam does it, but I doubt Take-Two would want to invest in the server space that would require.

You're not giving Stardock credit for their attitude to copy protection. Don't forget that GalCivII has zero copy protection. That's right. The CD that you buy has no Starforce, no Securom, no online activation, no CD check to play - no copy protection at all. You install the game out of the box and away you go. You play immediately and you don't even need to insert the CD ever again.

But I agree with you about Stardock's attitude to transfering your copy of GalCivII to someone else. They are clearly trying to stamp out second hand sales. You can still sell your copy of GalCivII but to install updates you need to register the CD-key which can only be done once. You don't need the account name and password to simply play the original game as it is on the CD.

As a measure of protection Stardock require updates to the game to be activated online. But they also support activating those updates via email for customers who do not have an internet connection. I wonder if 2K will follow that example for BioShock?

[lurchibald]

what if your finished with bioshock (not likely) and want to give it to a friend or sell it? what then? will we be left, stuck with a irremovable bioshock up our arse?? I for one would like more information an what it is meant by "Internet connection being a requirement" why are we not being told any information about this aspect? its like 2k have selective eyesight and are sidestepping this question! :mad: :mad: :mad:

[borgdrone89]

Damn it! This means that I can't play Bioshock! How can they expect EVERYONE to have an internet connection?!? Personally, I think the internet is a complete waste of time. Seriously. Idiots.



;)



The most iroic part about this whole thing is that the internet requirement is only posted online so far.....:D :D :D

also what's ironic is that you can't play bioshock (im assuming because you dont have an internet connection), and yet you are posting on this forums, which kinda requires internet to post on :P

[BioShockWins]

also what's ironic is that you can't play bioshock (im assuming because you dont have an internet connection), and yet you are posting on this forums, which kinda requires internet to post on :P

like I said before, what they don't know can't hurt them

[Derangel]

what if your finished with bioshock (not likely) and want to give it to a friend or sell it? what then? will we be left, stuck with a irremovable bioshock up our arse?? I for one would like more information an what it is meant by "Internet connection being a requirement" why are we not being told any information about this aspect? its like 2k have selective eyesight and are sidestepping this question! :mad: :mad: :mad:

I'm sure Irrational and Elizabeth are busy with E3 (which is starting tonight with MS' conference) and the game's launch next month. They can't just drop everything to post on the forums. After E3 we might see some more activity from them, but not likely.

[FuKuy]

I hope Internet activation will help to stop piracy.

Nowadays should not be a problem activate a game trought the network...

[Derangel]

I hope Internet activation will help to stop piracy.

Nowadays should not be a problem activate a game trought the network...

It won't. There is no copy protection scheme that is unhackable. Like Halo 2, it might take a week or so post-release for Razor911 or Reload to get out a workable crack, but no longer than that. Might take even less time now that they've had practice with Halo 2 and Shadowrun.

[Bioshock_FTW!]

I'll bet there will be phone activation for people with no internet connection. You see it a lot these days, but mostly with applications, not games. I think they may figure this will cut back a lot on piracy but with the way things are looking, BioShock is going to be one of the most highly-sought-after games...possibly ever...
there will be some sort of keygen than can ping the request/response codes from phone activation if there is one. They can't risk the option of not having people on the internet.

[witch]

Pc games will always be the lead for piracy and I don't think it will ever be stopped; hell it won't. Not that I support it at all but it just seems that it's all going downhill, with consoles probably coming behind.

Also, to be on topic, I hate Internet activation. Steam just recently wouldn't let me play any of my games for two weeks and I did have the Internet on. All I got was "Searching for games". Then, yesterday, my games are back up.

[Derangel]

Pc games will always be the lead for piracy and I don't think it will ever be stopped; hell it won't. Not that I support it at all but it just seems that it's all going downhill, with consoles probably coming behind.

Also, to be on topic, I hate Internet activation. Steam just recently wouldn't let me play any of my games for two weeks and I did have the Internet on. All I got was "Searching for games". Then, yesterday, my games are back up.

Steam is a whole different animal though. For Steam games it requires you to have Steam on. Games that require internet activation are one time only deals. You activate, it writes a file of some kind or edits something in the registry entry for the game, and boom thats it. Its not like you'll have to be online every time to play the game.

[CodeMonkey]

Pc games will always be the lead for piracy and I don't think it will ever be stopped; hell it won't.

Yeah, and it sucks for PC gaming. Piracy has pretty much destroyed the PC game market for everthing except subscription type games. I remember just a few years ago most of the games at a Best Buy were PC games, now look at how few there are and how many console games there are.

[Ectoplasm]

In the not so distant future, and I believe Vista is where it starts, verification of your software legality is going to be perfomed by the OS itself, with security measures designed to prevent OS hacking being built into the hardware itself - specifically, integrated into the very core of the CPU. Once that happens, unless Razor911 has a CPU fabrication line up his sleeve, it'll be all over.

The whole argument is pointless - anti-piracy measures will only get stronger. People WILL buy games which require activation. If today you refuse to buy games that require it... tomorrow you will not be playing ANY high-profile titles.

[Camp1nCarl]

Pirates ruin it for everybody in the end, including themselves.

[Derangel]

In the not so distant future, and I believe Vista is where it starts, verification of your software legality is going to be perfomed by the OS itself, with security measures designed to prevent OS hacking being built into the hardware itself - specifically, integrated into the very core of the CPU. Once that happens, unless Razor911 has a CPU fabrication line up his sleeve, it'll be all over.

The whole argument is pointless - anti-piracy measures will only get stronger. People WILL buy games which require activation. If today you refuse to buy games that require it... tomorrow you will not be playing ANY high-profile titles.

Hardware verification has been talked about for years. The technology is there for it, but no one is willing to implement it yet. There has been such a huge backlash from the community on it (naturally) that I think it surprised them. Vista built-in DRM isn't quite on the same level. Vista's anti-piracy measures still boil down to cd-key, online activation, CD-key verification via software. The only time it looks at the hardware is on boot-up and that information isn't sent anywhere. The fact that Razor911, and a couple others, cracked the verification so quickly after launch attests to is uselessness. In fact, Microsoft can't even deactivate most of the OEM copies floating around on the net, because they're all the same as what Dell uses in their PCs.

I have nothing against strong anti-piracy measures, as long as they don't require me to jump through a million hoops to allow me to use a product I legally bought and as long as it doesn't violate my DMCA-granted rights to create my own back-ups of the products I own or binds to specific players (Sony is particularly guilty of doing this with some movies and a number of protection schemes for CDs prevent them from being played on a computer, or all the known issues with Starforce).

[v.dog]

Agreed. Dracionian measures only hurt legitimate customers, and increase the likelyhood of piracy; why pay for a severly crippled product, when you can get a fully unlocked version for free. I don't condone piracy (I want to pay people for their work), but systems like Starforce and Sony's root kit make it more tempting that it would be otherwise.

[Laser Eyes]

also what's ironic is that you can't play bioshock (im assuming because you dont have an internet connection), and yet you are posting on this forums, which kinda requires internet to post on :P

You can't assume that just because he posts on a forum that he has an internet connection at home. I am posting this message from the computer in my workplace.

[Laser Eyes]

I'll bet there will be phone activation for people with no internet connection. You see it a lot these days, but mostly with applications, not games. I think they may figure this will cut back a lot on piracy but with the way things are looking, BioShock is going to be one of the most highly-sought-after games...possibly ever...
there will be some sort of keygen than can ping the request/response codes from phone activation if there is one. They can't risk the option of not having people on the internet.

Alternative activation by email would be better for them and us. I'd rather not make a timed international call to 2K in New York. That one call could cost more than the game. One good thing about Microsoft's activation for Windows XP is that it only costs a local call every time.

[Glottis]

no offense, but I don't think a lot of people are going to spend an extra three hundred odd bucks after upgrading their PCs because they couldn't spend $30 on internet for a month =P



I agree....

The pirates will come up with any excuse...including "I dont have a phone or the net" ! You can afford a pc and browse this forum ? but you have no net connection ? :rolleyes: BS ! Get a dial up connection,heck high speed hasnt been expensive for a long while.

Dial up is beyond dirt cheap,if not free depending on where you are.

Watch.....

2K will bend over for the pirates,and turn it into a 1-800 phone check,and we will still have people on here starting threads and complaining,and throwing fits and temper tantrums.'But,but,but,but I dont have a phone at home !! I live in a cave !" :D :rolleyes:

I watched this with Prey,and a few other titles.Dont appease the pirates 2K.
leave it in.I buy my games and my hardware,and I am proud of it.

[Glottis]

In the not so distant future, and I believe Vista is where it starts, verification of your software legality is going to be perfomed by the OS itself, with security measures designed to prevent OS hacking being built into the hardware itself - specifically, integrated into the very core of the CPU. Once that happens, unless Razor911 has a CPU fabrication line up his sleeve, it'll be all over.

The whole argument is pointless - anti-piracy measures will only get stronger. People WILL buy games which require activation. If today you refuse to buy games that require it... tomorrow you will not be playing ANY high-profile titles.


Exactly !! Online activation is the future,accept it or stop playing now.



Pirates ruin it for everybody in the end, including themselves.


True,but then they are a selfish and chirlish lot. :)


Hardware verification has been talked about for years. The technology is there for it, but no one is willing to implement it yet.


My first job was selling software in a computer store in Montreal Quebec back in 1987.We sold Unix,and it came with a dongle.I dont for the life of me understand why they dont go back to that and do it with games.It
works a heck of a lot better then a cd key or online activation,much harder to 'crack'.USB dongles could be used.Its not that no one uses it,some do,but the software associated with it usually tips the scales well above 1000
dollars and up.Phone activation is the way to go with games I think in the near term,without haveing to spend extra on hardware dongles.

[BioShockWins]

... what about those with out telephones and internet???

[lurchibald]

how the hell does phone activation work?

[Laser Eyes]

how the hell does phone activation work?

At this stage 2K haven't even said there is any alternative to online activation.

[lurchibald]

At this stage 2K haven't even said there is any alternative to online activation.

sorry, i meant in general

[Laser Eyes]

sorry, i meant in general

Although I dislike online activation I admit the activation process for Windows XP works very well in practice. It's very quick to activate online, it doesn't collect any personal information and it doesn't require any downloads.

You can also activate by phone - it's a local call, it's fully automated and takes about 5 minutes. If you have already activated a number of times (I don't know how many) then the automated process won't work. You get put through to Microsoft's Indian call centre. You give them the installation ID from your screen and they give you the activation number to input. It's always available and only takes a few minutes.

[gains]

what if your finished with bioshock (not likely) and want to give it to a friend or sell it? what then? will we be left, stuck with a irremovable bioshock up our arse?? I for one would like more information an what it is meant by "Internet connection being a requirement" why are we not being told any information about this aspect? its like 2k have selective eyesight and are sidestepping this question! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Re-selling digital media of any kind isn't entirely legal. There's boilerplate legal mumbo-jumbo in any EULA that designates you as the sole user of the product. Not the owner; the user. Microsoft has been taking action against eBay sellers trying to get rid of old OS discs they don't use anymore. (I'll go find the articles if anyone wants me to be scholarly about it.)

The recording industry is working diligently to shut down used record stores on the grounds that they own the material, customers are only leasing it, and it is at the discretion of the labels that such material should enter the pre-owned market. They see zero profit on re-sells. They want their slice of the pie. And they don't even have an EULA on the product! I still buy CDs, new and used, because until the FBI kicks in my door for that copy of Druqks, I'm not giving it up.

Re-selling is killing the console market by inches. Go into EB Games. How many yellow tagged pre-owned game discs do you see for each new copy? Again, the devs and publishers see none of the money paid for these games. They are quietly trying to push through the same regulations the record labels want, but since they are a smaller industry, they want to avoid alienating customers. This was the focus of the most depressing meeting of the NJ chapter of IGDA I ever attended. (Even Penny Arcade took up this issue.)

Piracy is a sticky issue for me. Some of my favorite music software devs have raised their prices and gotten quite draconian about protections. Native Instruments requires online activation AND deactivation of all their stuff that doesn't already have a hardware dongle. They let you have two simultaneous installations though, which is nice. The Ohm Boys just posted a blog entry about their piracy investigations. 80% of their userbase are running pirated copies. I'm amazed they can stay in business.

Sorry for the rant. I'm angry at both sides of the issue. Ownership is being unfairly taken from the legit buyer, and the industry is being bled to death buy re-selling.

[Ectoplasm]

The antipiracy measures of past decade, and largely of today, are like Middle Ages medicine. Crude, mostly ineffective, and rather unscientific. Could treat minor things, but anything more serious was a death setence.

More effective, and less invasive measures are coming. More and more media consumers are connected and at increasingly higher speed. And here's the hard truth: when disconnected were the majority, companies cared about having that market and accomodated. As cave-dwellers become a decided minority, companies find it increasingly easier to snub them in favor of assuring that everyone who uses their product pays for it.

In a disconnected market, you had to put your product on some medium that could be used autonomously, and you implemented various measures (usually ineffective) to protect the content from being copied. As consumer is in full possession of the entirety of content, breaking the lock is trivial.

As connectivity and bandwidth improve, consumers will increasingly NOT possess physical copy of the content they buy. When you buy a music album, you won't end up with a CD or a bunch of MP3 files. Any time you wish to listen to a song you bought, it would be streamed to you via protected hardware from the distributor's database.

Look at Netflix - they have started offering high-def video streaming to their subscribers. Make no mistake - in a few years, DVDs by mail will be gone, and streaming on demand will be the only way. Through HDCP-enabled hardware to an HDCP-enabled TV.

Games will be no different. Kiss EBWorld bye-bye. The games you play on the next Xbox or PS won't be from a disc you pick at a store - they will be streamed to your console once you log into your account. For PCs, it will be a variant of Steam, but again, content streamed to your PC real time, without it ever being stored on your hard drive.

I am not saying that will happen in a month - but give the industry 8-9 years, and it'll be there. And it will be all nice, integrated and seamless. You pick up your console's gamepad, the built-in fingerprint scanners IDs it is you, and you'll have instant access to any games you paid for. If your friend Joe comes to visit, he can pick up your gamepad, and will have access to games HE paid for. No passwords to remember, lose or share. On the road you take your iPhone-like device out of your pocket, and again, responding to your fingerprint, it gives you access to any music or movies services you subscribe with.

Sounds like fun, eh?

[lurchibald]

Re-selling digital media of any kind isn't entirely legal. There's boilerplate legal mumbo-jumbo in any EULA that designates you as the sole user of the product. Not the owner; the user. Microsoft has been taking action against eBay sellers trying to get rid of old OS discs they don't use anymore. (I'll go find the articles if anyone wants me to be scholarly about it.)

The recording industry is working diligently to shut down used record stores on the grounds that they own the material, customers are only leasing it, and it is at the discretion of the labels that such material should enter the pre-owned market. They see zero profit on re-sells. They want their slice of the pie. And they don't even have an EULA on the product! I still buy CDs, new and used, because until the FBI kicks in my door for that copy of Druqks, I'm not giving it up.

Re-selling is killing the console market by inches. Go into EB Games. How many yellow tagged pre-owned game discs do you see for each new copy? Again, the devs and publishers see none of the money paid for these games. They are quietly trying to push through the same regulations the record labels want, but since they are a smaller industry, they want to avoid alienating customers. This was the focus of the most depressing meeting of the NJ chapter of IGDA I ever attended. (Even Penny Arcade took up this issue.)

Piracy is a sticky issue for me. Some of my favorite music software devs have raised their prices and gotten quite draconian about protections. Native Instruments requires online activation AND deactivation of all their stuff that doesn't already have a hardware dongle. They let you have two simultaneous installations though, which is nice. The Ohm Boys just posted a blog entry about their piracy investigations. 80% of their userbase are running pirated copies. I'm amazed they can stay in business.

Sorry for the rant. I'm angry at both sides of the issue. Ownership is being unfairly taken from the legit buyer, and the industry is being bled to death buy re-selling.

i dont really care, as long as i dont have to keep putting in my cd to run bioshock (i like to keep my disks in mint condition) i am sure that a no-cd will be coming out for those of us who dont want to use our cd's, actually, starforce is the only one that its near impossible to make one for

[darthkiwi]

The antipiracy measures of past decade, and largely of today, are like Middle Ages medicine. Crude, mostly ineffective, and rather unscientific. Could treat minor things, but anything more serious was a death setence.

More effective, and less invasive measures are coming. More and more media consumers are connected and at increasingly higher speed. And here's the hard truth: when disconnected were the majority, companies cared about having that market and accomodated. As cave-dwellers become a decided minority, companies find it increasingly easier to snub them in favor of assuring that everyone who uses their product pays for it.

In a disconnected market, you had to put your product on some medium that could be used autonomously, and you implemented various measures (usually ineffective) to protect the content from being copied. As consumer is in full possession of the entirety of content, breaking the lock is trivial.

As connectivity and bandwidth improve, consumers will increasingly NOT possess physical copy of the content they buy. When you buy a music album, you won't end up with a CD or a bunch of MP3 files. Any time you wish to listen to a song you bought, it would be streamed to you via protected hardware from the distributor's database.

Look at Netflix - they have started offering high-def video streaming to their subscribers. Make no mistake - in a few years, DVDs by mail will be gone, and streaming on demand will be the only way. Through HDCP-enabled hardware to an HDCP-enabled TV.

Games will be no different. Kiss EBWorld bye-bye. The games you play on the next Xbox or PS won't be from a disc you pick at a store - they will be streamed to your console once you log into your account. For PCs, it will be a variant of Steam, but again, content streamed to your PC real time, without it ever being stored on your hard drive.

I am not saying that will happen in a month - but give the industry 8-9 years, and it'll be there. And it will be all nice, integrated and seamless. You pick up your console's gamepad, the built-in fingerprint scanners IDs it is you, and you'll have instant access to any games you paid for. If your friend Joe comes to visit, he can pick up your gamepad, and will have access to games HE paid for. No passwords to remember, lose or share. On the road you take your iPhone-like device out of your pocket, and again, responding to your fingerprint, it gives you access to any music or movies services you subscribe with.

Sounds like fun, eh?

Wow... sounds like something from Metal Gear Solid 4...
Streamed music and even movies seems plausible (and currently in use, even) but I'm not convinced you'd be able to stream an 8GB+ game to your hard drive as quickly as I'd like (eg. under 30 seconds).

[gughunter]

You can afford a pc and browse this forum ? but you have no net connection ? :rolleyes: BS ! Get a dial up connection,heck high speed hasnt been expensive for a long while.

Aside from assuming that people have access to only one PC, on which they both view the Internet and play games; that dial-up connections are available everywhere someone might maintain a PC; and that it makes perfect sense that purchasing a $50 consumer product should require you to get in contact with the manufacturer and prove your bona fides after the sale is made -- I can't object to that. This kind of pointless jumping through hoops is exactly why I rely on consoles for any game more advanced than Rogue.

[Laser Eyes]

Here's another question to add to my other (unanswered) questions. Will 2K one day, say in a year or two, release a version of BioShock that does not require online activation?

[Ectoplasm]

Wow... sounds like something from Metal Gear Solid 4...
Streamed music and even movies seems plausible (and currently in use, even) but I'm not convinced you'd be able to stream an 8GB+ game to your hard drive as quickly as I'd like (eg. under 30 seconds).
You don't need entire movie uploaded to you in order to watch it, right? When playing a game, only the content presently on your screen is being used, therefore entire game does not have to be loaded in advance. By the time starter splash screens are past, the area of your last save might be buffered up and ready to go, with next logical area(s) of content being readied as you play. And besides, do not discount tech potential. 10 years ago, majority of internet users were still on 56k dialup. (which rarely delivered 56k). Where are we going to be in 10 more years?

[Derangel]

You don't need entire movie uploaded to you in order to watch it, right? When playing a game, only the content presently on your screen is being used, therefore entire game does not have to be loaded in advance. By the time starter splash screens are past, the area of your last save might be buffered up and ready to go, with next logical area(s) of content being readied as you play. And besides, do not discount tech potential. 10 years ago, majority of internet users were still on 56k dialup. (which rarely delivered 56k). Where are we going to be in 10 more years?

To add to what you are saying: In Japan, and many parts of Europe, 100meg connections will be standard within the the next year or two (at prices far less than what we in the US pay for even 3 or 5 meg connections) and gigabit connections will be rolling out. The US is among the slowest countries in the world in terms of internet connectivity, with the top end being just over 10 megs and the cost is among the highest per-bit as well.

[HexRei]

So, I have heard the activation is a ONE TIME PER INSTALL thing. Is this true? Will I need to re-activate periodically, or each time I play? Do we have an actual quote from a dev on this issue?

[Glottis]

... what about those with out telephones and internet???


:D :rolleyes: :p

You CANT be serious !!! Here in Ottawa,a city of over a million people,one can get basic dialup for free,this includes rural areas up to 60 miles outside the city.Anyone who doesn't have a a net connection at home,or a phone has better things to do,I would think then rant on here about IP protection in Bioshock,or nay other game !!

Like maybe get a damn job,or stay in school.Or both,or ask Mom and Dad,why they haven't paid the phone bill as of late :p

The last thing one should be doing in such straights,is complaining about game copy protection.If you cant afford a basic phone line at home,this makes me wonder about many other things.... credit problems ? jobless ?
On the government tyt ? If you have neither,you have your priorities
messed up something fierce !

Maybe instead of buying Bioshock this 'person' who doesn't have a phone should be asking other questions... Your either lying,or a living at home with mommy and daddy,or living off of some government stipend,or all of the
above,and more.

[BioShockWins]

:D :rolleyes: :p

You CANT be serious !!!

yeah, that's about it

[CodeMonkey]

Ok, here's what I'm going to do. For you guys that don't have the internet just send me your product keys and I'll activate them for you. ;)

[Ectoplasm]

To add to what you are saying: In Japan, and many parts of Europe, 100meg connections will be standard within the the next year or two (at prices far less than what we in the US pay for even 3 or 5 meg connections) and gigabit connections will be rolling out. The US is among the slowest countries in the world in terms of internet connectivity, with the top end being just over 10 megs and the cost is among the highest per-bit as well.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_density

Japan: 339 people/km square, Israel: 302, UK: 246, Germany: 232.

United States? 31.

Means you on average need to lay about 10x more high-speed fiber in order to reach same number of customers here compared to Japan or Israel. Hence difference in cost and speed of development. We Americans enjoy a whole lot more elbow room than most other developed country in the world - and this is just one of the ways we are paying for this.

[Derangel]

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_density

Japan: 339 people/km square, Israel: 302, UK: 246, Germany: 232.

United States? 31.

Means you on average need to lay about 10x more high-speed fiber in order to reach same number of customers here compared to Japan or Israel. Hence difference in cost and speed of development. We Americans enjoy a whole lot more elbow room than most other developed country in the world - and this is just one of the ways we are paying for this.

Thats not the only reason. Look into what the FCC and some non-government funded groups have been saying lately. The phone companies (who still control every single bit of data transmissted in the United States) have been charging other companies insanely high rates to lease the lines. They're over charging and forcing our prices to be so high. They charge so much that its causing the, relativly, slow roll-out of 'boardband' (I use the term loosely) around the country. There are currently zero standards or regulations in place as far as price and avalibilty goes. Many of the internet lines in the country are old and unstable, causing a lot of the connection problems people have to deal with. You know its bad when the general government opinion is that the FCC has failed in its duty and when non-government orginizations are pushing the FCC to get off their backsides and do their jobs.

[lurchibald]

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_density

Japan: 339 people/km square, Israel: 302, UK: 246, Germany: 232.

United States? 31.

Means you on average need to lay about 10x more high-speed fiber in order to reach same number of customers here compared to Japan or Israel. Hence difference in cost and speed of development. We Americans enjoy a whole lot more elbow room than most other developed country in the world - and this is just one of the ways we are paying for this.

and here in Australia: 2.6 :D

[Freddo]

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_density

Japan: 339 people/km square, Israel: 302, UK: 246, Germany: 232.

United States? 31.

Means you on average need to lay about 10x more high-speed fiber in order to reach same number of customers here compared to Japan or Israel. Hence difference in cost and speed of development. We Americans enjoy a whole lot more elbow room than most other developed country in the world - and this is just one of the ways we are paying for this.

Sweden is 20, Finland is 15.5 and Norway is 12 and the majority of the populations have a broadband connection.

And even if you go to a high mountain in Norway or Sweden where noone lives, you will still recive a very good cellphone signal.

The US is severly behind when it comes to internet and cellphone providers.

[Derangel]

Sweden is 20, Finland is 15.5 and Norway is 12 and the majority of the populations have a broadband connection.

And even if you go to a high mountain in Norway or Sweden where noone lives, you will still recive a very good cellphone signal.

The US is severly behind when it comes to internet and cellphone providers.

Cellphone access is getting a lot better. On the flip side though, our prices per minute are still pretty low. In places like Japan, the UK, and other parts of Europe, price per minute is very high (or used to be) and price-per-text is low so people use SMS a lot. Price-per-text in the US is getting better, but its still higher than it should be.

[HexRei]

So, I have heard the activation is a ONE TIME PER INSTALL thing. Is this true? Will I need to re-activate periodically, or each time I play? Do we have an actual quote from a dev on this issue?

So, no official info on this then? :(

[Conker]

I really hope they don't use steam, i have had so many problems with it.

[Glottis]

I really hope they don't use steam, i have had so many problems with it.


I am sure its not Steam,it would have been pushed and advertised a lot by Valve,well in advance.

[TheVinster]

Is this whole internet activation thing so that you have to be connected to the internet when you turn on your game, and thus, you can't alter the game and make it different from what it should be? That'd be my smartest assumption.

[jackinthebox]

Is this whole internet activation thing so that you have to be connected to the internet when you turn on your game, and thus, you can't alter the game and make it different from what it should be? That'd be my smartest assumption.

i think you only have to be connected once (after the installation) and then never again...

[Derangel]

I really hope they don't use steam, i have had so many problems with it.

I've heard people complain about problems with Steam, yet across three different computer set-ups I've not had a single problem with it. Even on Vista it works flawlessly for me.

[TheVinster]

I had trouble with Steam, my Dad connected our internet to a router, so it kept blocking Steam. I couldn't route the port through to make it work so I had to return Half-Life and get something else. And my Dad asks why I won't let him connect the router, I'm too idiotic to bypass the ports!

[Derangel]

I had trouble with Steam, my Dad connected our internet to a router, so it kept blocking Steam. I couldn't route the port through to make it work so I had to return Half-Life and get something else. And my Dad asks why I won't let him connect the router, I'm too idiotic to bypass the ports!

If its a Linksys, it shouldn't be too complex. Best advice would be to look around to the net for information on it. Most, consumer, routers that I've worked with have port options under some kind of advanced tab.

[Rebelphoenix]

I was one of the poor folks who got HL2 on day ONE. I couldn't play it until 2 days LATER. Online activation is a bad move but I'm sure eventually a patch could be released for those of us who PAID for the game in the first place.

[Rassia]

I'm going to jump on this 'anti-piracy' bandwagon. Since changing jobs from being front line support for a Major ISP (Internal IT Support, not Tech support hehe) to being a Software Developer (well technically im still a Software dev.) i'd never given it much of a thought. I'm happy with whatever activiation process is required for the Dev teams and associated companies to make sure people are paying for their work. I never really understood that till i walked a mile in their shoes.

[Derangel]

I was one of the poor folks who got HL2 on day ONE. I couldn't play it until 2 days LATER. Online activation is a bad move but I'm sure eventually a patch could be released for those of us who PAID for the game in the first place.

Once again, Steam is not online activation in the basic sense. Windows XP is a example of what online activation is. Steam is something totally different.

[Laser Eyes]

It is unfortunate, but expected, that 2K gives us no details about this matter. In my experience when someone doesn't answer a question it's because the answer they would have to give is embarrassing to them.

However I'm beginning to think that it may not be Steam after all. 2K would have to release BioShock for purchase on Steam also, they couldn't use it just for online activation - Valve wouldn't do that. BioShock is not listed as a coming game on Steam. There is no reason why 2K would keep it secret if they were using Steam as their online activation facility.

Add all this up and it suggests to me that they are using some other means. Hopefully it will be more like (the not too inconvenient) Windows XP activation. Who knows, maybe Microsoft have agreed to let 2K use their Windows XP online activation system for BioShock.

[Derangel]

It is unfortunate, but expected, that 2K gives us no details about this matter. In my experience when someone doesn't answer a question it's because the answer they would have to give is embarrassing to them.

However I'm beginning to think that it may not be Steam after all. 2K would have to release BioShock for purchase on Steam also, they couldn't use it just for online activation - Valve wouldn't do that. BioShock is not listed as a coming game on Steam. There is no reason why 2K would keep it secret if they were using Steam as their online activation facility.

Add all this up and it suggests to me that they are using some other means. Hopefully it will be more like (the not too inconvenient) Windows XP activation. Who knows, maybe Microsoft have agreed to let 2K use their Windows XP online activation system for BioShock.

Its not like MS patented their activation set-up for XP, or anything. Anyone is free to make something similar.

[Rebelphoenix]

Once again, Steam is not online activation in the basic sense. Windows XP is a example of what online activation is. Steam is something totally different.
I use the example because think of how hard it could be to get on the server on day one and get this thing active. All I was waiting for was the bloody thing to tell me it was ok to play, and I about threw my pc out the window.

[501105]

Aslong as it is a simple thing that doesnt take much time I am fine with it but I dont want to betatest some new registration methode

[Glottis]

I've heard people complain about problems with Steam, yet across three different computer set-ups I've not had a single problem with it. Even on Vista it works flawlessly for me.



Same here ! over 5 computers,on cable when HL2 launched,and now DSL and
still its smooth as butter.

[Derangel]

I use the example because think of how hard it could be to get on the server on day one and get this thing active. All I was waiting for was the bloody thing to tell me it was ok to play, and I about threw my pc out the window.

HL2 is a really poor example though. Valve messed up with it on launch day.

[Homer J Simpson]

They have the Internet on computers now?

[AfterLife]

The internet activation shouldn't be too complicated enough to be annoying.

[darthkiwi]

I just had a thought: If Windows XP needs an online activation to work, and Bx will only work on Vista or XP, then shouldn't everybody who's going to play Bx on XP have the internet? And if they have Vista, it's more likely they'd have the internet in the first place?

There's probably some flaw to this plan, but oh well...

[Mike]

It is unfortunate, but expected, that 2K gives us no details about this matter. In my experience when someone doesn't answer a question it's because the answer they would have to give is embarrassing to them.

What question? It's not the first game or piece of software to have online activation, and it's not the last. It's just an authentication system. Your CD key or something will be sent to a master server and verified and if it's invalid then you won't be able to play. It's not going to ask you to fill out a small questionnaire or something. It's probably completely transparent. Even the most godawful intrusive anti-piracy system ever, StarForce, was entirely transparent to the user. Sure it broke some stuff once in a while, but if it didn't you never heard from it, and Bioshock just has a simple online activation.

I don't see the problem, everyone here is posting on a forum on the internet, and it's listed as a requirement, meaning you need it to play the game. Just like you need a certain video card and a certain amount of RAM. This has been the most absurd complaint about the game requirements, especially given that all complaints I have seen about it on various forums have been POSTED ON WEB SITES AND VARIOUS INTERNET FORUMS.

Maybe I should complain that it doesn't work on my old Voodoo3 card! What if I don't have a computer that meets the requirements?! Why can't I play it! Is there phone authentication!? What if I don't have a phone, can I do a mail-in authentication? What if I can't afford a stamp, is there a carrier pidgin system available?! Smoke signals?! Help me 2k Games, how do I activate Bioshock if I live in a cardboard box in the middle of the desert?!?!

[Rebelphoenix]

HL2 is a really poor example though. Valve messed up with it on launch day.
No thats actually a prime example of how quickly online activation can go horribly wrong.

[Laser Eyes]

I just had a thought: If Windows XP needs an online activation to work, and Bx will only work on Vista or XP, then shouldn't everybody who's going to play Bx on XP have the internet? And if they have Vista, it's more likely they'd have the internet in the first place?

There's probably some flaw to this plan, but oh well...

Windows XP does not require online activation. It also allows telephone activation which is what I always use.

[Laser Eyes]

What question?

What question you ask. Clearly you haven't read the entire thread. See my list of eleven questions on page 2 of this thread. In my opinion they are legitimate questions and none of them have been answered.

I don't see the problem, everyone here is posting on a forum on the internet, and it's listed as a requirement, meaning you need it to play the game.

Just because someone posts on this, or any forum, does NOT mean that they have an internet connection that can be used to activate the game. Maybe they post on the forum from their workplace, like I'm doing right now. Or maybe they have an internet connection at home but they have a separate standalone computer for gaming.

[MegaOreoPrime]

Yeah, I know of quite a few people who only use the Internet at libraries. Just because you have a computer, doesn't mean you have/need the Internet. There are still a large chunk of people who don't need it to run their lives, or become some stupid life-style. The Internet activation would annoy the **** out of me. I understand the security features in a day and age where we get stolen items on the web weeks/days in advance to the media actually being released... but, come on? An Internet activation for a video game? I can't believe this "Half-Life 2" **** is spreading. That is definitely going to push some people away. I know of a couple close friends who will be disappointed to hear about this.

[Derangel]

Yeah, I know of quite a few people who only use the Internet at libraries. Just because you have a computer, doesn't mean you have/need the Internet. There are still a large chunk of people who don't need it to run their lives, or become some stupid life-style. The Internet activation would annoy the **** out of me. I understand the security features in a day and age where we get stolen items on the web weeks/days in advance to the media actually being released... but, come on? An Internet activation for a video game? I can't believe this "Half-Life 2" **** is spreading. That is definitely going to push some people away. I know of a couple close friends who will be disappointed to hear about this.

Would you rather have them use Starforce or, god forbid, DRM of some kind, because those are the ONLY other viable alternatives. How many of those people have computers capable of running Bioshock? I bet most of them do not. I do not know a single PC gamer that doesn't have an internet connection, even if its just dial-up, and I happen to know quite a few PC gamers. Its not like they're requiring you to jump through a million hoops to activate the game. I don't get how people can keep pissing and moaning about this. Its a requirement like anything else. Its not like they can't get internet if they have a computer. Get one of those free AOL CDs. Use it to activate the game and then cancel the account. As was said above, its a requirement like any other. You might as well be *ichting (I wish I could swear...) about being required to have a computer or 360 to play the gosh darn game (really wish I could swear...). It is NO different at all.

[darthkiwi]

Would you rather have them use Starforce or, god forbid, DRM of some kind, because those are the ONLY other viable alternatives. How many of those people have computers capable of running Bioshock? I bet most of them do not. I do not know a single PC gamer that doesn't have an internet connection, even if its just dial-up, and I happen to know quite a few PC gamers. Its not like they're requiring you to jump through a million hoops to activate the game. I don't get how people can keep pissing and moaning about this. Its a requirement like anything else. Its not like they can't get internet if they have a computer. Get one of those free AOL CDs. Use it to activate the game and then cancel the account. As was said above, its a requirement like any other. You might as well be *ichting (I wish I could swear...) about being required to have a computer or 360 to play the gosh darn game (really wish I could swear...). It is NO different at all.

I can't help thinking you're being a little harsh, Derangel. It's possible that someone would deliberately not connect their gaming pc to the internet to avoid viruses, or would prefer to spend their money on something other than the internet, which they might not really want. I admit, I'm the complete opposite of this: I have a firewall and stuff, and the internet for me is a thoroughly good thing. But just because I have it on my gaming pc doesn't mean that other people will certainly have it on theirs.

As for an internet connection being in the same kind of league as graphics card or CPU, I disagree, mainly because (apart from Steam games) I've not played a game that required internet activation before. The graphics cards are obviously required because they are an absolutely essential part of the game - without it, nothing the developers did could possibly make the game run. Same with RAM and CPU - they are essential contributors to the game, and without them it would be impossible for the game to run at all. Internet activation, however, is not completely necessary, since the game would run without the internet if the devs hadn't put in this anti-piracy measure.

I for one will be able to play Bx (once I upgrade my graphics card) since I have the net on my gaming pc, so everything works for me regarding this new measure. I'm also glad they didn't use some awful registry-altering pc-smashing software to prevent piracy. I just think that maybe not everyone's in my position.

[501105]

Also I hope the code for it will be inside on the box/booklet and not on a small piece of paper since I have had some bad experiences with that.

[Retribution]

Also I hope the code for it will be inside on the box/booklet and not on a small piece of paper since I have had some bad experiences with that.
I'd much prefer it be on the disk or on the box. Anything made of paper is not your friend.:(

[CodeMonkey]

I've heard people complain about problems with Steam, yet across three different computer set-ups I've not had a single problem with it. Even on Vista it works flawlessly for me.

Same here. Never had any problems with Steam and in fact I LOVE it because I can redownload my games anytime, and anywhere, I want and I don't have to worry about losing or damaging the install disks or losing the install key code.

[Derangel]

I can't help thinking you're being a little harsh, Derangel. It's possible that someone would deliberately not connect their gaming pc to the internet to avoid viruses, or would prefer to spend their money on something other than the internet, which they might not really want. I admit, I'm the complete opposite of this: I have a firewall and stuff, and the internet for me is a thoroughly good thing. But just because I have it on my gaming pc doesn't mean that other people will certainly have it on theirs.

As for an internet connection being in the same kind of league as graphics card or CPU, I disagree, mainly because (apart from Steam games) I've not played a game that required internet activation before. The graphics cards are obviously required because they are an absolutely essential part of the game - without it, nothing the developers did could possibly make the game run. Same with RAM and CPU - they are essential contributors to the game, and without them it would be impossible for the game to run at all. Internet activation, however, is not completely necessary, since the game would run without the internet if the devs hadn't put in this anti-piracy measure.

I for one will be able to play Bx (once I upgrade my graphics card) since I have the net on my gaming pc, so everything works for me regarding this new measure. I'm also glad they didn't use some awful registry-altering pc-smashing software to prevent piracy. I just think that maybe not everyone's in my position.

How many people do you know that are computer games that do not have internet connections? I may seem harsh, but its not like what I say isn't true. While I'm sure there are some people that do have a gaming PC and don't use the internet on it, its such a minority that it doesn't make much of a difference. 2K could add phone support for it, if need be. I've been pointing at Windows activation for a reason. Its not just for the benefit of people understanding. I'm hoping that 2K does something exactly like it (without the annoying CD key and annoying automated phone service). That would solve problems, but internet is becoming a basic requirement for PC owners these days. The number of people with PCs and without internet is tiny.

Internet activation is the future. Halo 2 for Vista uses it, Bx uses it, all Steam games have it, it won't be long before other games start using it as well. Its going to be a requirement like any other. Internet activation is the best form of anti-piracy right now. Its very hard to crack as there isn't one single protocol used for it. Every developer uses it differently and so it forces hackers to learn how it was put in place and slowly work on it. It took over a week, after release, for a working Halo 2 for Vista crack to release. I haven't seen a crack take that long in ages, especially from Razor911 and Reload. Razor even cracked Vista quicker.

[Derangel]

Same here. Never had any problems with Steam and in fact I LOVE it because I can redownload my games anytime, and anywhere, I want and I don't have to worry about losing or damaging the install disks or losing the install key code.

I do that with Dark Messiah. I put the box away and just download the game when I want to play it. I wish Bioware would've fully allowed Steam for Jade Empire...

[Necros]

Ok, so based on the new Cult of Rapture info, this is a one time thing. Do we get a code or how will it work exactly? I ask this because we can reinstall Windows and that would clear/delete everything else.

[HexRei]

Ok, so based on the new Cult of Rapture info, this is a one time thing.

Do you have a link to this info?

[lurchibald]

Do you have a link to this info?

cult of rapture :D

http://www.2kgames.com/cultofrapture/pcblowout.html

[501105]

Oh well atleast no steam kinda thing.

[justanothernickname]

My GamePC has no Internetconnection. I can't go online via a dial up connection because i have no phone (only a mobilephone).
And if you ask how i can write here, if i want to use the net, i take my notebook and use the wlan of my university. But my gamepc can't do this, he has no wlan. Why should a desktop have it....
And even it would have wlan, i can't put the pc, the screen, the keyboard and the mouse in my backpack an walk arround with it... ;)
Anybody who will say something. I've deletet my preorder of the game.


Sry for bad english, not my mothertounge.

[Drengor]

The whole argument is pointless - anti-piracy measures will only get stronger. People WILL buy games which require activation. If today you refuse to buy games that require it... tomorrow you will not be playing ANY high-profile titles.

'People' will do anything. I won't be buying this game, or any with online activation. Enough people boycotted/protested starforce to get it out of use. When they realize they lose more sales with this form of 'copy protection' than they could lose to piracy, things will change. Until then, more unacceptable forms of 'copy protection' will surface.

For posterity, here's my simple definition of unacceptable 'copy protection'. Any one that prevents me from using the software I purchased whenever I want to use it. That includes net outtages, cable outtages, server outtages, company foldings, os changes, hardware changes, 10 or 20 years going by, etc.

[Derangel]

My GamePC has no Internetconnection. I can't go online via a dial up connection because i have no phone (only a mobilephone).
And if you ask how i can write here, if i want to use the net, i take my notebook and use the wlan of my university. But my gamepc can't do this, he has no wlan. Why should a desktop have it....
And even it would have wlan, i can't put the pc, the screen, the keyboard and the mouse in my backpack an walk arround with it... ;)
Anybody who will say something. I've deletet my preorder of the game.


Sry for bad english, not my mothertounge.

Depending on how activation is done, you might be able to install it on your laptop, register it and then be able to install it on your game PC and still play it fine. Obviously, it would be a good idea to wait until the game is released and there is concrete information on it.

[Derangel]

'People' will do anything. I won't be buying this game, or any with online activation. Enough people boycotted/protested starforce to get it out of use. When they realize they lose more sales with this form of 'copy protection' than they could lose to piracy, things will change. Until then, more unacceptable forms of 'copy protection' will surface.

For posterity, here's my simple definition of unacceptable 'copy protection'. Any one that prevents me from using the software I purchased whenever I want to use it. That includes net outtages, cable outtages, server outtages, company foldings, os changes, hardware changes, 10 or 20 years going by, etc.

So a ONE-TIME activation is bad? This isn't Steam, you don't have to be connected every time. I hate to break this to you bu 10-15-20 years down the road there will be nothing but digital games. You will be forced to be online to get them and maybe even to play them. Get used to it, its how things are going to be.

Do you use Windows XP or Vista? Then guess what, you're still supporting online activation. Its not different (maybe even far better). If this were Steam I could understand your point, but its a one time thing only. For people that don't have access to an internet connection at their place of residence, they have a right to be mad/annoyed.

PS: Starforce is still used by some companies, it hasn't totally vanished.

[Derangel]

Addium to my responce to justanother: Its possible that it could work lik GalCivII and you will only have to register it online in order to get updates. So you may still be able to play the game normally.

[Necros]

"Ok, so based on the new Cult of Rapture info, this is a one time thing. Do we get a code or how will it work exactly? I ask this because we can reinstall Windows and that would clear/delete everything else."
- Just to keep it on top. ;)


I agree with those who think this is a bad way of copy protection. There has to be other methods, that aren't excluding anyone. Because this internet activation is keeping people away from playing the game. And yes, you can say, this is the future. I doubt it. It can be fooled, it won't worth anything, it just makes some gamers mad/sad. And maybe you won't beleive it but there are many people who can't afford to have internet and a gaming PC or just an average PC. Or they just don't need it at home. Those kids, who can only surf in their schools or at some internet café or something like that. Yes, it's getting cheaper and cheaper but there are still many people without it. This is just not a smart move... :rolleyes:
And just think about Oblivion, it had no protection, at all. And it still sells very well. ;)

[Necros]

PS: Starforce is still used by some companies, it hasn't totally vanished.
I think it's because there still are some contracts, so they've got to use it. Anyway, it will be gone if it won't work properly.
Its possible that it could work lik GalCivII and you will only have to register it online in order to get updates. So you may still be able to play the game normally.
No, activation is required to play the game. That is why it's in the requirements.

[darthkiwi]

How many people do you know that are computer games that do not have internet connections? I may seem harsh, but its not like what I say isn't true. While I'm sure there are some people that do have a gaming PC and don't use the internet on it, its such a minority that it doesn't make much of a difference. 2K could add phone support for it, if need be. I've been pointing at Windows activation for a reason. Its not just for the benefit of people understanding. I'm hoping that 2K does something exactly like it (without the annoying CD key and annoying automated phone service). That would solve problems, but internet is becoming a basic requirement for PC owners these days. The number of people with PCs and without internet is tiny.

Internet activation is the future. Halo 2 for Vista uses it, Bx uses it, all Steam games have it, it won't be long before other games start using it as well. Its going to be a requirement like any other. Internet activation is the best form of anti-piracy right now. Its very hard to crack as there isn't one single protocol used for it. Every developer uses it differently and so it forces hackers to learn how it was put in place and slowly work on it. It took over a week, after release, for a working Halo 2 for Vista crack to release. I haven't seen a crack take that long in ages, especially from Razor911 and Reload. Razor even cracked Vista quicker.

I can definitely see your point, and I agree that the most up-to-date pc gamer would have the internet and would therefore have no problems with this. And I agree it's probably a very effective anti-piracy measure. But, at the end of the day, it's cutting off perfectly legitimate customers from what would rightfully be theirs.
This wouldn't be so bad, but cultofrapture.com has just said that there is no phone support - it's internet activation or nothing. The system is certainly going to be effective, and it probably is forward-looking to some degree (I mean, the internet is central to Steam, which has been used to distribute Half Life 2, one of the most famous shooters ever). But, I still feel that it's excluding some people who needn't be excluded, which I can't help feeling is unfair. I guess 2k has decided upon a balance between being unfair to a minority but ensuring less piracy, which I can totally sympathise with. But I still feel as though those people who can only log on the net at work/school/cyber cafe are being treated in an unfair manner. But, well, what can we do, eh? It's not like they're going to change now.

[Laser Eyes]

Do you use Windows XP or Vista? Then guess what, you're still supporting online activation.

Stop saying this. It is wrong and misleading. Windows XP and Vista can be activated by phone. You don't need to use online activation.

[Derangel]

"Ok, so based on the new Cult of Rapture info, this is a one time thing. Do we get a code or how will it work exactly? I ask this because we can reinstall Windows and that would clear/delete everything else."
- Just to keep it on top. ;)


I agree with those who think this is a bad way of copy protection. There has to be other methods, that aren't excluding anyone. Because this internet activation is keeping people away from playing the game. And yes, you can say, this is the future. I doubt it. It can be fooled, it won't worth anything, it just makes some gamers mad/sad. And maybe you won't beleive it but there are many people who can't afford to have internet and a gaming PC or just an average PC. Or they just don't need it at home. Those kids, who can only surf in their schools or at some internet café or something like that. Yes, it's getting cheaper and cheaper but there are still many people without it. This is just not a smart move... :rolleyes:
And just think about Oblivion, it had no protection, at all. And it still sells very well. ;)

People with average computers are not likely to be playing Bx on them.

All I can say to those that don't have internet at home is get the 360 version if you have it or (I know I'm going to get angry responses for saying this) wait for Razor911 or Reload to release an activation crack to use with your official version of the game. As as said above this post, its a balancing issue. The majority of PC gamers have internet, or access to the internet. 2K hasn't even fully outline how it will work exactly. Whether there is a CD Key or if the activation is coded into the disc itself and once activated it writes or edits a config file for the game saying its been activated. If, like GalCiv II, it writes or edits a config file then you will just need to have access to an internet able computer and a floppy drive, USB thumb drive, PSP, MP3 player, memory card of some sort, maybe even a digital camera, and copy of the config file and then install the game on your home computer and copy said file over.

And yes, digital distribution is the future. Disc based copy protection is worthless and will never work well. Internet activation is the best we have, right now. I'm not saying best as in the one that works the best soley, its also one of the least intrusive and infuriating types.

[Derangel]

Stop saying this. It is wrong and misleading. Windows XP and Vista can be activated by phone. You don't need to use online activation.

While its different in that it offers another way (that I've had to use), its still the same thing. By using it you are still supporting the method of copy-protection. Thats the only time I've brought it up since I learned the finer details of how Bx's activation works, other wise I've been using it as an example of good way to do activation.

[justanothernickname]

Don't say most gamers have (fast) inet access. Just look at some maps of europe, isdn is the best you can have in many villages. And this won't change in the future. Arround 100 people are living in my old homevillage. If you want that the provider builds up a fast inet you have to find 4 or 5 other houses where fast inet is wanted.
In 100 years this won't work.
And now, i want to see how you will play steamgames with isdn or 56k (most of the familys won't even have isdn). My fastes inetconnection there where arround 28k - with a 56k...
And coppyprotection, i only say Company of Heros, Dawn of War Dark Crusade and Neverwinter Nights (at the 1. start the gamedisk is needed but only then).
This games havn't selled bad...

[CodeMonkey]

You don't need a fast connection to register your game so that point is moot.

You don't have to be connected to the Internet to play games from Steam. You only have to be connected to download games and get updates.

Copy protection doesn't stop dishonest people from stealing, it only helps to keep the "honest" people honest. Removing copy protection won't get people to buy the game if they weren't going to buy it anyway.

It's a fact!

[justanothernickname]

You don't need a fast connection to register your game so that point is moot.

You don't have to be connected to the Internet to play games from Steam. You only have to be connected to download games and get updates.

Copy protection doesn't stop dishonest people from stealing, it only helps to keep the "honest" people honest. Removing copy protection won't get people to buy the game if they weren't going to buy it anyway.

It's a fact!
1. Nobody said how this copyprotecton will work. If you have to download some files, have fun with 28 kbit/s.
2. When copyprotection doesn't stop dishonest people from stealing, why this discussion. Why this silly protection.
3. Read my first post. I can't activate the game, so i had to cancel my preorder. And everybody i know will think more then one time if he will buy a game with an inetactivation.

But hey, yes, there are enough people who will buy the game, there are also enough people who let the sw on the pc make a phonecall home. I won't do both. ;)

And I thougt steam have to be aktivatet when i want to play a steamgame (like hl2).

[Necros]

People with average computers are not likely to be playing Bx on them.
You're wrong. Many people will play with the game who have average rigs, even with only low settings. Hell, I won't be playing with high settings, most probably medium-low, but guess what, I don't care. This is not the most important part of the game. When I'll have a better PC, I'll see how it looks in all it's glory.

And about the piracy thing: this will not stop anything, pirated copies will appear soon after release. It will only stop people from buying the game. :( Yes, they are probably the minority but don't they deserve a chance to play with it too?

[renhoek]

Ah man... online activation? I'm still boycotting Half-Life 2 because I want to be able to play games when the publisher decides to take down the authentication server.

I make a point of buying games that don't employ copy protection like Galactic Civilizations.

I could do without HL2 although it hurt, but I _really_ want to play Bioshock :( I guess I'll have to wait to see if you guys continue with these plans.

It's stupid really, because you know the game will be up on the PirateBay, maybe even before it's available in stores. Only legit users are hit with the trouble of DRM.

[lurchibald]

Ah man... online activation? I'm still boycotting Half-Life 2 because I want to be able to play games when the publisher decides to take down the authentication server.

I make a point of buying games that don't employ copy protection like Galactic Civilizations.

I could do without HL2 although it hurt, but I _really_ want to play Bioshock :( I guess I'll have to wait to see if you guys continue with these plans.

It's stupid really, because you know the game will be up on the PirateBay, maybe even before it's available in stores. Only legit users are hit with the trouble of DRM.

its a one time activation over the net

[Derangel]

You're wrong. Many people will play with the game who have average rigs, even with only low settings. Hell, I won't be playing with high settings, most probably medium-low, but guess what, I don't care. This is not the most important part of the game. When I'll have a better PC, I'll see how it looks in all it's glory.

And about the piracy thing: this will not stop anything, pirated copies will appear soon after release. It will only stop people from buying the game. :( Yes, they are probably the minority but don't they deserve a chance to play with it too?

I'm using broad generalizations. Obviously there are people who fit outside of that, but its been my experience that most computers that are considered "Average" these days will be lucky to have a video card in them, much less one that can play Bx. The average computer (average meaning the most seen, most used, whatever) is that **** Dell, and other Tier1 integrators, shovel out to people (I'll be nice and not insult them, this time) that don't know a thing about computers and only see a really cheap price and don't realize the darn thing will barely run Vista and the internet at the same time because they don't even come with a gig of RAM.....

[Drengor]

So a ONE-TIME activation is bad? This isn't Steam, you don't have to be connected every time. I hate to break this to you bu 10-15-20 years down the road there will be nothing but digital games. You will be forced to be online to get them and maybe even to play them. Get used to it, its how things are going to be.

Do you use Windows XP or Vista? Then guess what, you're still supporting online activation. Its not different (maybe even far better). If this were Steam I could understand your point, but its a one time thing only. For people that don't have access to an internet connection at their place of residence, they have a right to be mad/annoyed.

PS: Starforce is still used by some companies, it hasn't totally vanished.


Digital distribution is a different topic.

I don't use XP or Vista, specifically because of activation. I do have XACT and XINPUT running in win2000 and at this point the only 'xp required' game I don't have running is C&C3, which also uses a kernel32 call which was added in version 5.1 and I haven't taken the time yet to get it working.

We don't have details on the '1 time only activation' but it will be useless for copy protection if it doesn't have machine specific information in the seed, which would mean it likely won't work after the seed changes. Otherwise the protection would be far too easy to bypass to have any noticeable beneficial effect.

Long story short - Activation = NO SALE

[jackinthebox]

Ah man... online activation? I'm still boycotting Half-Life 2 because I want to be able to play games when the publisher decides to take down the authentication server.

[...]

if a publisher decides to quit the server you will certainly get a patch for the game...

[Drengor]

You don't need a fast connection to register your game so that point is moot.

You don't have to be connected to the Internet to play games from Steam. You only have to be connected to download games and get updates.

Copy protection doesn't stop dishonest people from stealing, it only helps to keep the "honest" people honest. Removing copy protection won't get people to buy the game if they weren't going to buy it anyway.

It's a fact!

Your statement is off.

If you intended to say that someone who wouldn't buy the game for any reason, would still not buy it if copy protection is removed, it might be true, but completely irrelevant.

If you intended to say that noone is really going to skip buying the game due to the copy protection, you are very wrong.

Starforce has ended two series for me. X3 from the X series, and UFO Aftershock. At this point I am certain there are cracks for both, but the principal is more important to me. I literally have 100s of other games to play, and they lost my money.

[Ectoplasm]

I don't use XP or Vista, specifically because of activation. I do have XACT and XINPUT running in win2000 and at this point the only 'xp required' game I don't have running is C&C3, which also uses a kernel32 call which was added in version 5.1 and I haven't taken the time yet to get it working.

Long story short - Activation = NO SALE
So, you are one of the 'cavemen'. You represent roughly 0.0001% of gaming population, and I highly doubt anyone at Irrational, Microsoft or about anywhere else is concerned about keeping the likes of you in the running. You and those like you not buying the game won't even make a hiccup on the developer's bottom line. Especialyl if said bottom line gets the anti-piracy benefit of continuous online verification. If have doubts about success of a product that requires connectivity at all times - take a peek at any MMOG.

Long story short - you sticking to your rule = you playing no new games a few years on.

[Derangel]

So, you are one of the 'cavemen'. You represent roughly 0.0001% of gaming population, and I highly doubt anyone at Irrational, Microsoft or about anywhere else is concerned about keeping the likes of you in the running. You and those like you not buying the game won't even make a hiccup on the developer's bottom line. Especialyl if said bottom line gets the anti-piracy benefit of continuous online verification. If have doubts about success of a product that requires connectivity at all times - take a peek at any MMOG.

Long story short - you sticking to your rule = you playing no new games a few years on.

Or any of the millions of gamers that have bought games directly from Steam. Those all require you to log into Steam to run them.

[Drengor]

If have doubts about success of a product that requires connectivity at all times - take a peek at any MMOG.

Long story short - you sticking to your rule = you playing no new games a few years on.

Now you're being silly. Obviously an online only game that requires you to connect to a server that is running the actual game is not going to be able to be played without internet access. Online multiplayer-only games are billed and sold as such, with everyone knowing that from the start. If you don't have reliable internet connectivity you don't even consider such games. Additionally such games are known to have a lifetime, if the server is taken down, you don't play anymore.

A single player game running wholly on your system is not subject to the same set of rules. An average gamer will have dozens of single player games for each multiplayer online game. I personally have several hundred single player games. If I were to suddenly buy and play every MMO ever made, I'd be hard pressed to reach 10% of my library being online. Any singleplayer game I buy is mine to play for life. Old favorites frequently get replayed every couple years. This year the oldest two replayed would be Bard's Tale and the original Xcom - Ufo defense.

Despite your insistences otherwise, there is a major backlash against these types of restrictions. The divx initiative met huge resistance and died. DRM with online music sales is meeting resistance and shows many signs of dying. (http://www.eff.org/IP/DRM/guide/) Microsoft faced a huge outcry over it's activation policies... which resulted in 'preactivated' preinstalled xp from major vendors to avoid activation. Microsoft is a monopoly in the OS market. They can afford, and sometimes seem to try, to alienate legitimate customers. There is no gaming monopoly. Alienating legitimate customers will affect their bottom line.

[Laser Eyes]

if a publisher decides to quit the server you will certainly get a patch for the game...

Now there's an interesting statement from a moderator. Is that an offical statement on behalf of 2K?

Let's say the publisher goes out of business. Who will release this patch? If, as I suspect, you don't speak for 2K then why won't 2K make the same promise publicy?

[renhoek]

Now there's an interesting statement from a moderator. Is that an offical statement on behalf of 2K?

Let's say the publisher goes out of business. Who will release this patch? If, as I suspect, you don't speak for 2K then why won't 2K make the same promise publicy?

Indeed, where is the guarantee this will happen?

And people who are saying it's "just a one-time activation":

Try installing HL2 without an internet connection. Doesn't work without authentication from Valve's server right? That's exactly the situation when Valve either goes out of business or just decides it's too old and scraps the server. Same with Bioshock.

And you never had a harddisk crash? Had to reinstall windows? Upgraded your computer? You WILL need that re-activation again.

With online game like WoW I understand that servers are an integral part of the game, so if they are scrapped, then I can't play the game. Fine, but that's totally not needed for games like Bioshock. It's bull**** and if nobody takes a stand now, then every thing you do on your computer in the future will require 'authentication'.

Don't say it's unlikely, EA already killed online play for its older sports titles so they could push consumer to buy their latest ****. (http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2006/08/06/4893)

If I buy a game, I don't want a killswitch embedded.

[Derftron]

Hopefully the internet verification wont screw up on release date like HL2 did. That was such a freaking pain in the ass.

[MF9000]

Or any of the millions of gamers that have bought games directly from Steam. Those all require you to log into Steam to run them.

Not true. Once the game is downloaded and activated you can play in offline mode. The only time you would need to go online with steam are for updates. Good luck raging against the machine, because in the end your efforts will be for not. For good or bad, online activation seems to be the trend. Perhaps if wasn't for the dirtbags pirating games etc there wouldn't be a need to be so draconian in their protection measures.

As a side note, Valve has already tested a patch that would allow the playing of their games if sometime in the future they decided to shutdown the authentication server.

[Derangel]

Not true. Once the game is downloaded and activated you can play in offline mode. The only time you would need to go online with steam are for updates. Good luck raging against the machine, because in the end your efforts will be for not. For good or bad, online activation seems to be the trend. Perhaps if wasn't for the dirtbags pirating games etc there wouldn't be a need to be so draconian in their protection measures.

As a side note, Valve has already tested a patch that would allow the playing of their games if sometime in the future they decided to shutdown the authentication server.

Only Steam game I've played is Dark Messiah, which requires you to log on everytime and I've herd people talk of others. Being that I've never played HL2 I didn't know if that one did as well, but I assumed that any game bought and downloaded from Steam (not from a retail store itself) would need to.

[Shakura Jolithion]

Try installing HL2 without an internet connection. Doesn't work without authentication from Valve's server right? That's exactly the situation when Valve either goes out of business or just decides it's too old and scraps the server. Same with Bioshock.
Valve is making large profits, the authentification barely hurt it's sales, presuming it did at all. An authentification server doesn't cost much to maintain compared to a major company's annual budget.

And you never had a harddisk crash? Had to reinstall windows? Upgraded your computer? You WILL need that re-activation again.
Unless you saved a copy of the files, or the activation works in another way, etc. That depends on details we don't have.

With online game like WoW I understand that servers are an integral part of the game, so if they are scrapped, then I can't play the game. Fine, but that's totally not needed for games like Bioshock. It's bull**** and if nobody takes a stand now, then every thing you do on your computer in the future will require 'authentication'.
Before WoW has even decreased on player numbers, there are *other* servers running WoW, some of them with variations on things like levels. There's plenty of old MMOs that people still play on unofficial servers. As for everything requiring authentification, no real problem for most people, since the internet keeps expanding at varying rates in different areas. A few years ago I got fiber-optics installed in my area, and now have the option to use that or a number of other services.

on't say it's unlikely, EA already killed online play for its older sports titles so they could push consumer to buy their latest ****. (http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2006/08/06/4893)
From the article: "justr pick one". lol... By the way, it says you can still *play* those games, it says the *online support* will go kaput. There's various ways of getting online; finding a different server, getting one of numerous hacking tools if it requirs activation from a server that's no longer accessible, etc. Easier if you're on a computer, but still possible from a console. You lose 1 feature, and that's online play, in a sports game. That's not a really big pain if you can get friendso ver instead. And maybe EAs just trying to cut costs for one reason or another (profit? poor revenue?), and doesn't want to maintain so many servers; with several sports games each year, that's a lot of servers.
If I buy a game, I don't want a killswitch embedded.
It doesn't have any killswitch embedded.

[renhoek]

Valve is making large profits, the authentification barely hurt it's sales, presuming it did at all. An authentification server doesn't cost much to maintain compared to a major company's annual budget.


True, but when a company stops, (remember System Shock?), there's nobody who will run a server for you.


Unless you saved a copy of the files, or the activation works in another way, etc. That depends on details we don't have.


We can assume it's tied in with the hardware, otherwise how would it be a copy protection?


Before WoW has even decreased on player numbers, there are *other* servers running WoW, some of them with variations on things like levels. There's plenty of old MMOs that people still play on unofficial servers. As for everything requiring authentification, no real problem for most people, since the internet keeps expanding at varying rates in different areas. A few years ago I got fiber-optics installed in my area, and now have the option to use that or a number of other services.


This is not a question of "will we have internet access to authenticate". (Although there will be plenty of people who wont). This is about the practice of having to use online authentication for offline games. And it's wrong in my opinion. The only way I personally can fight it is by not buying the product and telling other people (both consumers and producers) what is going on. Which is what I'm doing here.

Not only that, legitimate users who can't play their game after buying it in the store will go looking for solutions. This will be by using cracks or downloading a pirated version. Online authentication is a severely retarded copy protection because it forces plenty of consumers to educate themselves on where to get illegal warez. And once they KNOW where to get them, what are the chances they'll just download an illegal version right from the start next time a game comes out?


From the article: "justr pick one". lol... By the way, it says you can still *play* those games, it says the *online support* will go kaput. There's various ways of getting online; finding a different server, getting one of numerous hacking tools if it requires activation from a server that's no longer accessible, etc. Easier if you're on a computer, but still possible from a console. You lose 1 feature, and that's online play, in a sports game. That's not a really big pain if you can get friendso ver instead. And maybe EAs just trying to cut costs for one reason or another (profit? poor revenue?), and doesn't