"BioShock Redux: The Director's Cut" / "The Developer's Build"

[Hatesink]

As a result of focus-testing, market forces etc., it seems BioShock might have been through and/or may yet go through changes.

If the changes are extensive, will there be any chance of seeing a restored or re-edited version of BioShock?

I'm thinking that it might be possible that the game could ship with a patch to convert the game back to Ken's original vision (or close to). A patch that could be activated if unlocked with some kind of cheat, or as a reward for completing the game.

Obviously I know this is highly unlikely...but how cool would it be.

Also— is there going to be a Riddick/Lost Coast style commentary included in BioShock (if so, it'd be cool if the sound files could continue running without you having to keep the player-character within a certain distance of whatever icon triggers the commentary.).

On a smilier note— PC gaming, used to be (when PC owners were a smaller, more 'select' audience) the domain of the 'techie' hobbyist, and as such could support more complicated concepts such as those seen in SS2, and those still evident in the largely PC-centric strategy genre...

...should gaming continue to grow as a mainstream hobby, possibly meaning (due to increased mass-production of hardware) the reduction in cost of the various consoles, and the subsequent increase in the difference in cost of console and PC gaming, is it possible we may see a 'new breed' of game for the high-end-PC gamer (considering they're likely to be a different demographic).

I know I'm probably cutting my own throat here (basically because I prefer console gaming, and because I really don't want to have to pay thousands of pounds for a gaming system, just to be able to run the types of games I want to play), but might it be possible that, for example, a fully-featured, non-dumbed-down (maybe DX10 only) version of BioShock might be made available for the PC gamer?

[jackinthebox]

i hope it won't be changed too much if actually something will be changed... IG can't just replace the whole art deco style^^ in the ken levine interview (http://www.gamerzines.com/360zine/issue-4/bioshock---ken-levine-interview.html) (thx Cranberry, original thread in here (http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2464#post2464)) ken is saying that they didn't change much...

We've lost very little.

[v.dog]

As a result of focus-testing, market forces etc., it seems BioShock might have been through and/or may yet go through changes.

If the changes are extensive, will there be any chance of seeing a restored or re-edited version of BioShock?

I'm thinking that it might be possible that the game could ship with a patch to convert the game back to Ken's original vision (or close to). A patch that could be activated if unlocked with some kind of cheat, or as a reward for completing the game.You want to fight Arctic Nazis?Also— is there going to be a Riddick/Lost Coast style commentary included in BioShock (if so, it'd be cool if the sound files could continue running without you having to keep the player-character within a certain distance of whatever icon triggers the commentary.).Commentary systems FTW. :)On a smilier note— PC gaming, used to be (when PC owners were a smaller, more 'select' audience) the domain of the 'techie' hobbyist, and as such could support more complicated concepts such as those seen in SS2, and those still evident in the largely PC-centric strategy genre...

...should gaming continue to grow as a mainstream hobby, possibly meaning (due to increased mass-production of hardware) the reduction in cost of the various consoles, and the subsequent increase in the difference in cost of console and PC gaming, is it possible we may see a 'new breed' of game for the high-end-PC gamer (considering they're likely to be a different demographic).

I know I'm probably cutting my own throat here (basically because I prefer console gaming, and because I really don't want to have to pay thousands of pounds for a gaming system, just to be able to run the types of games I want to play), but might it be possible that, for example, a fully-featured, non-dumbed-down (maybe DX10 only) version of BioShock might be made available for the PC gamer?High end machines are easier to get for the 'non-select' audience, and developers make games that will sell to the largest audience. PC/console games will get dumber, so long as we live in a world that's dysgenic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysgenics).

[piet11111]

developer commentary is a definite must !
i loved it in halflife 2 episode 1 and chronicles of riddick.

[Hatesink]

Commentary systems FTW. :)High end machines are easier to get for the 'non-select' audience, and developers make games that will sell to the largest audience. PC/console games will get dumber, so long as we live in a world that's dysgenic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysgenics).I think it's more a question of what's going to be a 'populist hit'. The computer game equivalent of Saturday-evening prime-time tv. Just bland and gray enough not to alienate anybody, so that people can enjoy the feeling of a shared appreciation and belonging (which is basically what it pedals— a feeling of unity, belonging, and re-assurance.).

GTA is a prime example. Driving is a major fundamental component of the game, and its driving model is worse than Crazy Taxi, worse than the tacked-on driving segment in HL2 and worse than that of the incidental vehicles of Far Cry. It doesn't even have wheel support (presumably because if you were able to plug a wheel into it it'd just accentuate how very bad the driving model actually is (and not everybody can have a wheel)). But the thing is it's so simple and unlike driving, anyone can do it, and no one is better than anyone else at it because it's so shallow and bad a model that it's impossible to be truly skilled at it, so ultimately no one is intimidated or alienated by it. I'd like to see every game that features driving having a properly simulated driving model and with a first-person driver's viewpoint perspective, but with a slider (such as that of World Racing) that adjusts the degree of realism from 'arcade' right up to 'real'. That way the people who can't handle a realistic driving model can slide it down to arcade, click on a chase view camera perspective and be just as happy as those of us who are in first person driver's viewpoint, stearing with gears and break and using the rock and roll of the suspension to drift our rigs around the corners (which is where the real rewards lay). If you make a game with a huge driving component, make it a sim, give those who want it the opportunity to configure it to an arcade style driving model, and include a driving school, or driving school option for those who really want to learn how to burn rubber.

Fans of most mainstream games support those games like they support sports teams, but even more blindly (i.e. you can't even criticise the games the way you can the performance of a team or sports professional without just setting yourself up for ridicule and abuse).

You can call me pretentious (I don't mind), but I see games as being an art form and an emergent media for the telling of stories, the proliferation of social mores, and the sharing of experiences— just like film or literature. It's just that it's still in its infancy.

I think it should be totally acceptable for games to be critiqued in much the same way as are sports teams, novels and films.

As for console prices dropping. It probably won't happen. The competition between the companies will see them developing machines that cost whatever the market is able and/or willing to support (really I was just trying to push a concept) ;)

developer commentary is a definite must !
i loved it in halflife 2 episode 1 and chronicles of riddick.I would absolutely love to see a director's commentary (but please don't make me have to stand next to an icon to listen to it :( )

[Silent Film]

I'm curious, other than the natural changes that occur during the dev process, what is indicating to you that Bioshock is going through, or is on the verge of going though change?

I would definelty like to hear the Bioshock dev commentary, and 'deleted' features/levels is something I've wanted to see in games for a while. For instance, I would love to play through the cut White House level of Deus Ex.

[Irrational_Alexx]

As a result of focus-testing, market forces etc., it seems BioShock might have been through and/or may yet go through changes.

If the changes are extensive, will there be any chance of seeing a restored or re-edited version of BioShock?

I think you misunderstand the development process. Focus testing helps us make the game we *want* to make, it doesn't change our vision. We know how we *want* gamers to react to what we make, but we don't know if we've succeeded until we watch them play. Sometimes we made the game 'right' the first time, but more often we have to go through several revisions to reach the result that we wanted in the first place.

And our vision itself can evolve over time. On a high level, this is still the game we always wanted to make, but that doesn't mean that the details don't change, and often. Lots of ideas that sound great on paper turn out to be No Fun in actual gameplay. When we find those, we grin sheepishly, and go back to the drawing board.

Also— is there going to be a Riddick/Lost Coast style commentary included in BioShock (if so, it'd be cool if the sound files could continue running without you having to keep the player-character within a certain distance of whatever icon triggers the commentary.).

I don't think we'll be able to do that for the shipping game, but there's been some discussion of possibly doing up something like that for downloadable content, after we're done with the base game. No promises, though.

...should gaming continue to grow as a mainstream hobby,

I don't think "should" enters into it; I think it's inevitable. How we choose to react, that's another question...

Alexx Kay, Designer, Irrational Games

[vrap]

How about you guys have a video camera at the office and record stuff every now and then for a making-of thing? I still find the Looking Glass videos fascinating after all these years.

[Necros]

How about you guys have a video camera at the office and record stuff every now and then for a making-of thing? I still find the Looking Glass videos fascinating after all these years.
Where can I watch those? :)

[vrap]

There's one on one of the Thief games CD's, I think it might be Thief Gold, and there's a different one here (http://www.strangebedfellows.de/torrents/).

[Laser Eyes]

might it be possible that, for example, a fully-featured, non-dumbed-down (maybe DX10 only) version of BioShock might be made available for the PC gamer?

I thought that's what we were getting in the PC version (minus the DX10 part). You have other information?

[Hatesink]

I thought that's what we were getting in the PC version (minus the DX10 part). You have other information?As far as I know the content is going to be more or less identical, but the huds and inventory screens etc. may very well differ between the two versions.

My question was more motivated by concerns that the whole game might have been 're-cut' which is not the case —the question was answered, albeit obliquely— it's seems the game is just in the process of being 'tweaked'.

As for a "Making Of...", it's been suggested that one probably will be made available for download, but that it probably won't be included as part of the CE package (probably due to time constraints), although I guess it's not impossible that that might change.