View Full Version : Gamespot taking bribes?
501105
11-30-2007, 05:17 PM
http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?p=3689682#post3689682
Sickening if true imo.
Demitasse
11-30-2007, 09:33 PM
Yeah, it's true. Mr. Gerstmann was better off having to leave those crooks.
Rebelphoenix
11-30-2007, 11:42 PM
What PA actually had to TELL you this for you to figure it out. I'm no fan of Jeff, I'm glad he got the boot. But I always knew that most review sites were getting paid for good reviews. Thats why I always play the game for myself. Or avoid a game if it looks like its not going to be good. There's something to be said for following your gut.
Admiral_Needa
12-01-2007, 05:19 AM
I worked at Gamespot.
Wrote reviews, previews and features.. until I decided to become a Research Scientist.
PrivateJoker
12-01-2007, 06:59 AM
Gerstmann was one of the most "irritated" reviewers of video games I have ever read. The tone of most of his reviews walked a line full of frivilous whiny complaints about tiny little aspects of the game to provided good, if hackneyed descriptions of the quality parts. I also think that he unfairly pushed the stigmatism of being an "overweight video game player"...I don't think he did much for Gamespot's image, and absolutely hate some of his reviews. His review of Bioshock and Twilight Princess was editorial garbage, where he was just trying to differentiate himself by exacerabting what little problems either title had. Meh...who cares if he was fired? He had a hobby of being pessimistic and making everything sound worse than it really was when he wanted too. He was probably my least favorite "video game editor" i have read.
Ever stopped to think that he, or friends of him on the staff spread the rumour that he was fired over an advertising deal, in order to create fallout?
I've seen plenty of game websites who give medicore reviews of games that are also advertised prominently on their webpage...IGN anyone? So I really doubt that their was some sort of conspiracy, more like Jeff's hack writing style at finally crossed the final line.
To me it looks like his review was about right, it's also backed up by the overall ratings received for the game:
http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/xbox360/kaneandlynchdeadmen
http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/kaneandlynchdeadmen
http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/ps3/kaneandlynchdeadmen
I've always found his reviews to be the most realistic, more so in hindsight. I think that Gamespot have made a mistake in not renewing his contract (for whatever reason).
501105
12-01-2007, 09:52 AM
Some other gamespot editors left because of the news too (one certain person with a melodramatic blog) and there is an about 850 page thread now on the gamespot forums.
Gerstmann was one of the most "irritated" reviewers of video games I have ever read. The tone of most of his reviews walked a line full of frivilous whiny complaints about tiny little aspects of the game to provided good, if hackneyed descriptions of the quality parts. I also think that he unfairly pushed the stigmatism of being an "overweight video game player"...I don't think he did much for Gamespot's image, and absolutely hate some of his reviews. His review of Bioshock and Twilight Princess was editorial garbage, where he was just trying to differentiate himself by exacerabting what little problems either title had. Meh...who cares if he was fired? He had a hobby of being pessimistic and making everything sound worse than it really was when he wanted too. He was probably my least favorite "video game editor" i have read.
Ever stopped to think that he, or friends of him on the staff spread the rumour that he was fired over an advertising deal, in order to create fallout?
I've seen plenty of game websites who give medicore reviews of games that are also advertised prominently on their webpage...IGN anyone? So I really doubt that their was some sort of conspiracy, more like Jeff's hack writing style at finally crossed the final line.
I've just read his review again :- 9.0
http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/action/bioshock/review.html?page=1
There is nothing in there that is not accurate. I personally never had any technical issues but it would be delusional to suggest he is wrong about them. His comments re SecuRom are also accurate -- I did have issues with that. Overall, and with the benefit of hindsight, that review is very good and reflects the realities of the game.
PrivateJoker
12-01-2007, 05:23 PM
To me it looks like his review was about right, it's also backed up by the overall ratings received for the game:
http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/xbox360/kaneandlynchdeadmen
http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/kaneandlynchdeadmen
http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/ps3/kaneandlynchdeadmen
I've always found his reviews to be the most realistic, more so in hindsight. I think that Gamespot have made a mistake in not renewing his contract (for whatever reason).
Some of his reviews were really off base...I'm sure I have read some decent reviews hes done before...BUT he really does nitpick over aspects that aren't always relevant to the experience. I am a Zelda fan myself, and this guy RATED Tony Hawk Pro Skater a 10, and Zelda an 8.9....wtf? Sorry I can't say a person has much integrity as a reviewer when the game he considers to be the best ever made is "Tony Hawk".
Demitasse
12-01-2007, 09:20 PM
I find it hilarious that Eidos gave gamespot money to advertise Kane & Lynch on their website, and then when it comes out and gets a 6.0 rating. I can just imagine the look on their face. For all of you concerned citizens here's the link to the banned review by the best reviewer in the world. By the way, Mr. Gerstmann is not fat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBD0cUeeEQc
Zoidberg
12-01-2007, 09:29 PM
I find it hilarious that Eidos gave gamespot money to advertise Kane & Lynch on their website, and then when it comes out and gets a 6.0 rating. I can just imagine the look on their face. For all of you concerned citizens here's the link to the banned review by the best reviewer in the world. By the way, Mr. Gerstmann is not fat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBD0cUeeEQc
I actually think that's the reason he was fired, Eidos pulled out about half a million dollars (I think, don't quote me on this) in future advertising.
PrivateJoker
12-01-2007, 09:36 PM
I find it hilarious that Eidos gave gamespot money to advertise Kane & Lynch on their website, and then when it comes out and gets a 6.0 rating. I can just imagine the look on their face. For all of you concerned citizens here's the link to the banned review by the best reviewer in the world. By the way, Mr. Gerstmann is not fat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBD0cUeeEQc
Are you kidding me??! Hes really chubby. Sometimes his reviews were succinct, but I find much of his analysis to be annoying, nitpicky and over opinionated. I am glad he was fired.
Demitasse
12-01-2007, 09:49 PM
Are you kidding me??! Hes really chubby. Sometimes his reviews were succinct, but I find much of his analysis to be annoying, nitpicky and over opinionated. I am glad he was fired.
Please upload a picture of him being "really chubby" and prove me wrong. His reviews were also 90% fact and 10% opinion. Can you name one reviewer who doesn't give any opinions in his/her reviews?
Here's his myspace for all of those who are into that stuff.
http://www.myspace.com/defjeff
PrivateJoker
12-01-2007, 10:02 PM
Please upload a picture of him being "really chubby" and prove me wrong. His reviews were also 90% fact and 10% opinion. Can you name one reviewer who doesn't give any opinions in his/her reviews?
Here's his myspace for all of those who are into that stuff.
http://www.myspace.com/defjeff
Like that video link? His head is as big as balloon...he is a chubster. Who cares about that anyways? His ability to comment on certain artistic and story based qualities of certain games has always been lacking. He at times had a strong analytical ability with describing game mechanics, but thats where is reviewer skills stopped.
Ever stop to think that he knew he was going to be fired, and made a particularly duragtory review of KL too rifle a controversy? He basically said "f you" and "dont buy this game" all in one review.
Don't believe the rumours, his termination was probably planned for a very long time. If the rumours were true they could have put a retraction on the review, and had someone else redo it.
Demitasse
12-01-2007, 10:07 PM
Speaking of Jeff Gerstmann. Whatever happened to Greg Kassavin?
Admiral_Needa
12-02-2007, 02:52 AM
Speaking of Jeff Gerstmann. Whatever happened to Greg Kassavin?
I went to High School with him. He's at EA. Worked on producing the same game that got me into gaming... And also the game which I first used my handle 'Admiral Needa' :cool:
Demitasse
12-02-2007, 04:36 AM
I went to High School with him. He's at EA. Worked on producing the same game that got me into gaming... And also the game which I first used my handle 'Admiral Needa' :cool:
TimeSplitters?
Admiral_Needa
12-02-2007, 04:52 AM
TimeSplitters?
Command & Conquer. :cool:
This whole debacle is very bad new for Gamespot. There's an unholy s**t storm going down in the Gamespot forums with every new thread having Jeff comments. Perception is reality - and there in lays the rub for Gamespot. Whether it is the case that Jeff was fired due to EIDOS pulling ad revenue or not (and I'm of the opinion that it was influential), it will be perceived as the case and the natural conclusion to be drawn is that Gamespot has no credibility as a reviewer. As a gamer it's a loose/loose situation, I find IGN the most infuriating site on planet Earth and trying to watch a video review from them is an exercise in masochism. I tried to watch a Crysis review yesterday, the review was 4:32 in length and after 28 mins I had still only "Streamed" 3:15 and the connection was dropped -- all reviews from there take forever for me, so from a usability point of view IGN is a non starter. So who does that leave for me to use? I've started using Metacritic these days as I find the meta data more reliable for my wallet; who else is there that you peeps find reliable and usable?
Admiral_Needa
12-03-2007, 12:57 AM
So, which site do you think did a better job of reviewing BioShock? GameSpot or IGN? Here are the video links:
GS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s26cr5zUcGQ
IGN:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyga9xyFDYo
So, which site do you think did a better job of reviewing BioShock? GameSpot or IGN? Here are the video links:
GS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s26cr5zUcGQ
IGN:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyga9xyFDYo
The GameSpot review: without doubt.
Basically "All that blabbing" in the IGN review came across as incoherent and confusing. The game mechanics were detailed in GameSpot with the video back drop linked to the reviewers comments i.e. if Jeff was talking about plasmid modifications then the backdrop was showing plasmid modifications. The IGN review seems to have been made with less attention to unifying the audio with the visual -- in fact the PC section was clearly done at a different time. Watching the GameSpot review it is obvious that there was a plan as to how the game would be reviewed and presented to the viewer, where as I really did find the IGN reviewer rambling and ad hoc in style. This ad hoc nature of the IGN review feels less professional than the GameSpot version. I watched the IGN review twice just to make sure I wasn't letting bias run wild and I don't think I have: The GameSpot review is clear concise and confidently delivered, where as the IGN review lacks coherence and confidence.
matches81
12-03-2007, 05:50 AM
The gamespot review is more coherent, although I find both a bit too positive. Yes, Bioshock is a great game with a great story (for a FPS), but it also has flaws, which aren't mentioned in both reviews (although the gamespot review at least casually mentions some shortcomings). Both reviews leave the impression that Bioshock is pretty much perfect and contain close to no critique.
matches81
12-03-2007, 05:53 AM
Oh yeah, about the topic itself:
It is a pretty well known fact that at least here in Germany there are some gaming magazines that give in to publishers wanting to "buy" good ratings with a big advertisement contract or other means. Seeing how many review sites on the internet mostly use a scale from 8.5 to 10.0 instead of the whole range for games that have been hyped enough before release it seems pretty obvious the same things don't happen only in Germany. So that's no surprise for me.
greylantern
12-03-2007, 08:36 AM
The fact that Gamespot rated Crysis higher than Bioshock is enough for me to take them seriously, or at least the guy who reviewed Crysis, he's the best reviewer they have - he's fair and reviews from the perspective of a 'happy gamer' who doesn't set out to kill a game. I think J should have given both Bioshock AND Kayne and Lynch lower scores than he did though as they were both more flawed than the scores reflect.
Well here are his first words on the situation at GameSpot:
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/12/03/exclusive-gertsmann-speaks-about-kandl-review-future/
Looks like they slapped a gagging order on him. I'm not surprised considering the potential damage this could have for all review sites and the knock on that will have for sales. Typical BS, the industry has the best year in its history but greed still wants more and is willing to sell out on integrity just so that the few at the top of the capitalist pyramid can get fatter faster. Get set for the industry going into Ostrich mode and pretending there isn't an issue. I just hope Gamers start to bite back on this one, as nothing will kill gaming faster than poor titles, and it's poor titles that we'll get if every pos game that comes out gets an insta 8.0 just to keep sales happy.
PrivateJoker
12-03-2007, 09:37 PM
It's kinda disturbing that everyone on the internet believe the malicious rumour. Its really unfair to Eidos, people are basically slandering their game because of a potentially untruthful rumour.
Gerstman was at times a very unpleasant critic, and his reviews were at times annoyingly pessimistic, I would not be suprised if he was fired because of the tone of his reviews.
The most questionable thing is if game reviewers should be considered authorities on what games to buy...that calls into question a strange problem, namely that a reviewers opinion can benefit or harm sales, and maybe since certain games receive opinionated responses, maybe reviewers should legally not be able to state "buy this game". :o
BioShockWins
12-03-2007, 09:46 PM
Either that or the people who work at gamespot REALLY REALLY liked that game.
It's kinda disturbing that everyone on the internet believe the malicious rumour. Its really unfair to Eidos, people are basically slandering their game because of a potentially untruthful rumour.
Gerstman was at times a very unpleasant critic, and his reviews were at times annoyingly pessimistic, I would not be suprised if he was fired because of the tone of his reviews.
The most questionable thing is if game reviewers should be considered authorities on what games to buy...that calls into question a strange problem, namely that a reviewers opinion can benefit or harm sales, and maybe since certain games receive opinionated responses, maybe reviewers should legally not be able to state "buy this game". :o
Well they didn't gag him for nothing, so something has occurred that GameSpot/CNET would like to remain undiscussed. I have no feelings for EIDOS either way (I don't think I have owned any of their games) and I can imagine that they feel as though they are receiving unwarranted flak; that doesn't change the fact that pressure seems to be applied to review web sites to provide higher scores. Naturally, some may say, but it is unethical and misleading for a review site to misuse a metric scale in that way. The pressure to sack him may have been entirely internal (and I suspect it was), but if EIDOS pulled money from GameSpot post review then they are a part of this situation.
Reviewers do benefit or harm sales. That's why we have so much review media (and not just for games), advertising and discussion helps sales, positive discussion helps them even more. The problem I can see here is that GameSpot have switched priorities from being an objective reviewer to being a business that is about obtaining advertising revenue. They seem to be saying that the two are mutually exclusive, and that is objectionable to my mind.
GameSpot's first response:
http://uk.gamespot.com/news/6183603.html?tag=latestnews;title;0
FreshLaundryX
12-04-2007, 02:02 PM
This is the review he got fired for??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBD0cUeeEQc
His review of Shadowrun pissed me off, but the Kane and Lynch one is right on the money. Thanks for saving me from a $60 turd (not that I would have fallen for it anyway.)
FreshLaundryX
12-04-2007, 02:09 PM
After doing more research:
Some are saying that his gamertag proves he only played Kane and Lynch up to the second level. In order to make a fair review I think they are expected to finish the whole game. So perhaps GS did have reason to fire him.
FreshLaundryX
12-04-2007, 02:33 PM
And to be fair to him:
Gerstmann's first interview since his firing, he said quote "A reviewer's Xbox Live Gamercard is rarely a good place to look for answers about how much that reviewer has (or hasn't) played a game," he said. "For the record, I saw both endings in Kane & Lynch before writing about it."
Hmph. I though reviews had to be approved by other reviewers anyway? Somebody else OKed this review.
And to be fair to him:
Gerstmann's first interview since his firing, he said quote "A reviewer's Xbox Live Gamercard is rarely a good place to look for answers about how much that reviewer has (or hasn't) played a game," he said. "For the record, I saw both endings in Kane & Lynch before writing about it."
Hmph. I though reviews had to be approved by other reviewers anyway? Somebody else OKed this review.
It seems obvious that a gamer tag will only log his XBox 360 usage and nothing more. People who are raising that as an argument are obfuscating and attempting to detract from the root issue: namely that of review(er) integrity. As you say the review proses isn't driven by a single individual and someone very much OK'ed his review. There is definitely something afoot. Gerstmann wasn't everybody's cup of tea and you don't need to go far to find people who are glad he was fired. It requires no great stretch of the imagination to envisage a conversation emanating from the sales department (or repeated conversations as is more likely to be the case) that higher advertising revenue could be garnered if clients didn't have to worry too much about objective reviewing. Gerstmann is one of the longest standing and most respected reviewers in the business, and that is a reason that I can construct that sentence. It could be argued that he was too credible!
purplerose1414
12-04-2007, 06:00 PM
Well, well, well. Look at
Regardless of the gamespot rumor (and personally, I think you have to be incredibly naive to believe a publisher would be fine and dandy with getting a 6 after putting in a fortune of advertising) This just reeks of foul business practice.
purplerose1414
12-04-2007, 06:01 PM
Jesus. Link is here. (http://kotaku.com/gaming/kane-%26-lynch/kane--lynch-site-fibbing-about-reviews-scores-329529.php)
audiosnag
12-04-2007, 06:43 PM
Jesus. Link is here. (http://kotaku.com/gaming/kane-%26-lynch/kane--lynch-site-fibbing-about-reviews-scores-329529.php)
yeah that doesn't suprise me..movies do it all the time...they'll take one somewhat positive sounding line in the middle of an awful review and stick it on the box in quotes as a positive..if you hadn't read the review or knew where the quote was from you'd think it was fine and dandy...the stars though is a pretty blatant lie, thats bad
PrivateJoker
12-04-2007, 08:16 PM
The problem is, is that everyone assumes that there was somewhat sort of corrupt collusion behind this. People could be mistaking cause and effect (something the rumour did), whereas Gerstmann knew his days were numbered and put up a nasty video review of Kane and Lynch...just to create a problem. (Aided by people who spread rumours).
I think Gerstman got canned, and people desire to believe rumours and then they do normal cause.
purplerose1414
12-04-2007, 08:26 PM
Is it really, really that much of a stretch to believe money=good reviews? Edios sunk a fortune into advertising on gamestop, K&L got a 6, and immediately the K&L adverts disappeared and he was fired. Do you really think there was nothing shady going on?
This story didn't start making people believe in corporate backed reviews, it just confirmed the thought.
Demitasse
12-04-2007, 09:06 PM
I'm still thinking about renting Kane & Lynch just to see how wunderbar it is.
Glottis
12-04-2007, 09:09 PM
There is tons going on with this thats shady.The review of K&L was vetted by a team working with Gerstmann,and approved by a team of fellow game reviewers.
Eidos pulled rank,and had him canned.Period.I have cancelled my sub to the site over this ****.
Demitasse
12-04-2007, 09:27 PM
Damn right. Death to Gamespot and their benefactors!
audiosnag
12-04-2007, 11:23 PM
The problem is, is that everyone assumes that there was somewhat sort of corrupt collusion behind this. People could be mistaking cause and effect (something the rumour did), whereas Gerstmann knew his days were numbered and put up a nasty video review of Kane and Lynch...just to create a problem. (Aided by people who spread rumours).
I think Gerstman got canned, and people desire to believe rumours and then they do normal cause.
I do understand what you're saying and it is a possibility but you can't deny that buisness is buisness and i don't care what buisness you're in, when you're in charge the main importance is the bottom line. And when Eidos pulled the amount of revenu they pulled from the site, somebodies head is gonna roll. I think it's far more likely it is what it is as opposed to Gerstmann cackling to himself rubbing his hands together with glee.
the one thing i really didnt understand about jeff was his tony hawk 3 reveiw IMO that game sucked hard balls its only redeming factor being it was next gen and how they steriotyped the hell out of Canada (dumb americans make me lol) tony hawk 4 on the other hand was quite possibly one of my favourite games ever up there with half life 1 sonic 1 2 3 and knuckles dead rising and bioshock
The problem is, is that everyone assumes that there was somewhat sort of corrupt collusion behind this. People could be mistaking cause and effect (something the rumour did), whereas Gerstmann knew his days were numbered and put up a nasty video review of Kane and Lynch...just to create a problem. (Aided by people who spread rumours).
I think Gerstman got canned, and people desire to believe rumours and then they do normal cause.
PJ's got a point about cause and effect: we should be cautious when discerning the facts. But isn't it also a rumour to state that Gerstmann new his days were numbered? The editorial staff and insiders say this came as a bolt out of the blue with no prior knowledge of GameSpot's attitude toward Gerstmann. That says nothing about CNET's attitude though, and it would be reasonable to surmise that the driving force is coming from the business as a whole and not just the GameSpot subsidiary.
Puprlerose's link sums up EIDO's sense of integrity though. Makes you wonder why you pay for reviews if you're just going to make them up in the first place?
bioshock_fan
12-05-2007, 06:34 PM
What Gamespot has to say about firing Jeff - LINK (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6183666.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=newstop&tag=newstop;title;1).
Demitasse
12-05-2007, 07:33 PM
What Gamespot has to say about firing Jeff - LINK (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6183666.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=newstop&tag=newstop;title;1).
That's all fabrications.
bioshock_fan
12-05-2007, 07:54 PM
That's all fabrications.
Ya I know, Gamespot basically avoided half the questions with "Absolutely not" or "reasons behind his dismissal cannot be revealed", lol:p . Seems like there gonna play it safe and keep the REAL reasons to themselves;) !
Ya I know, Gamespot basically avoided half the questions with "Absolutely not" or "reasons behind his dismissal cannot be revealed", lol:p . Seems like there gonna play it safe and keep the REAL reasons to themselves;) !
Listen to The HotSpot:
http://uk.gamespot.com/video/0/6183660/videoplayerpop?
That's a bunch of blokes (notably devoid of women, which doesn't mean that they should rush out and employ Jade Raymond) seriously pissed that they have been left completely out of the loop. If you want to blame someone blame CNET; however, CNET is just a stock share and won't give two hoots about your opinion unless their stocks plummet...hang on... nope they won't give a s**t because they'll just stick their money into BlizzVision.
Admiral_Needa
12-05-2007, 08:23 PM
That's a bunch of blokes (notably devoid of women, which doesn't mean that they should rush out and employ Jade Raymond) seriously pissed that they have been left completely out of the loop.
When I worked at Gamespot, there was only 1 woman in the group. And she was the executive editor's sister :p She was very nice though. :cool:
Demitasse
12-05-2007, 08:24 PM
When I worked at Gamespot, there was only 1 woman in the group. And she was the executive editor's sister :p She was very nice though. :cool:
Did you bend her over a desk?
Admiral_Needa
12-05-2007, 08:32 PM
Did you bend her over a desk?
Can you keep a secret?
bioshock_fan
12-05-2007, 08:32 PM
Listen to The HotSpot:
http://uk.gamespot.com/video/0/6183660/videoplayerpop?
That's a bunch of blokes (notably devoid of women, which doesn't mean that they should rush out and employ Jade Raymond) seriously pissed that they have been left completely out of the loop. If you want to blame someone blame CNET; however, CNET is just a stock share and won't give two hoots about your opinion unless their stocks plummet...hang on... nope they won't give a s**t because they'll just stick their money into BlizzVision.
I don't care all that much about this as i'm sure Jeff will be able to find another job with another company, maybe even another game site like IGN. I just posted the link for people that wanted to know why Gamespot fired Jeff, but the story doesn't really even answer much about the firing anyways, lol:p . I don't know enough about this whole situation to fully blame anybody ... and I doubt anybody else knows all the details yet to be making quick judgements either;) !
I don't care all that much about this as i'm sure Jeff will be able to find another job with another company, maybe even another game site like IGN. I just posted the link for people that wanted to know why Gamespot fired Jeff, but the story doesn't really even answer much about the firing anyways, lol:p . I don't know enough about this whole situation to fully blame anybody ... and I doubt anybody else knows all the details yet to be making quick judgements either;) !
True. I wasn't trying to imply that you wanted to blames someone just that I can't think of a better focus for anger than a faceless corporate entity (hmm...). It doesn't answer much, as you say, but from that broadcast it seems clear that they are as miffed about the whole thing as the average GameSpot user. I don't think we'll ever know now as the whole thing snowballed into something greater than the sum of its parts.