Not enough enemies?

[NoxSpartana]

I'm just a bit concerned because all I've heard mentioned is turrets, big daddies/little sisters, and splicers. Now I'm *hoping* that there is far more enemy variety than that, but I know that quite a few otherwise good games have fallen short of the mark in this area (Half Life 2 for example...)

[Silent Film]

You have a point, but hopefully there'll be enough variety in their behaviour to make up for it, along with them providing a healthy combat challenge. The more emergent aspects of the game should create a lot of interesting and different scenarios and interactions with NPC's/enemies.

[Adabiviak]

What game couldn't use more enemies? Painkiller? Serious Sam? I can't think of a game that wouldn't benefit from more enemies. There's a point of diminishing returns though, when a developer either goes insane or runs out of funding.

[Necros]

From Q&A2:
Will there be more diversity among the splicers? The screenshots so far have focused on a select few. Will they be more varied in their appearance?
We have 9 base models in the game with not only multiple skin variations but tons of mix and match attachments like hats, glasses and other cool stuff. On top of that, all of our splicers can have any power. To sum up, 9 models with all these different accessories to make them unique that can have any power equals a vast amount of unique and memorable enemy encounters.
And as we all know there will be a few Big Daddy types too. :)

But I don't know if there will be different Little Sisters or maybe Little Brothers :D too? :confused:

[Da Bubs]

I'm just a bit concerned because all I've heard mentioned is turrets, big daddies/little sisters, and splicers. Now I'm *hoping* that there is far more enemy variety than that, but I know that quite a few otherwise good games have fallen short of the mark in this area (Half Life 2 for example...)

those are all general catagories of enemies. there are three differnt kinds of big daddie, and from what I have seen in screenshots, several splicers

[pn18]

and what about other types?
I mean, the whole big daddy/little sister thing is cool, splicers are ok, but just three different types of enemies would be too few.

[^ilovebioshock!]

and what about other types?
I mean, the whole big daddy/little sister thing is cool, splicers are ok, but just three different types of enemies would be too few.


they are VERY hard to kill:p

[jackinthebox]

i'm sure we talked about this in some other thread... and i posted the same quote as Necros posted now^^ i believe there will be so many different-looking splicers that you just don't need more enemies...

[ffanxii4ever]

Even though there is relatively few TYPEs of enemies, their variation should be great (in respect to splicers); In one interview it was said that splicers can have any combination of plasmids and weapons that you can use

[Da Bubs]

I remember it being mentioned somewhere that they will have the same kind of splicers will have diffenrt color clothing, mabye hats, you know that kind of thing. So there should be a good amount of varitiy

[Pinky_Powers]

This was a fairly hefty concern on my mind a few months back, until I asked a question much like yours on the GameSpot forums.

I was informed there is something like five to seven variations to every character type... Splicers, Big Daddies etc...

I don't know if the above holds any truth, but it eased my fears of a highly repetitive scene around every corner.

The idea of seeing the same Big Daddy and the same Little Sister every time would have a grave consequence to the atmosphere that, in every other way, has wondrous potency.

[v.dog]

There seems to be some confusion here. Some are talking about different classes of enemies (Big Daddies, Little Sisters, Splicers, Bots, turrets, etc) while others are concerned about varieties within each class (clones vs. induviduals).

On the former, the five I mentioned are the only ones we know of. It's quite possible that there are other classes that they're keeping under wraps so as to not spoil the suprise. I'm guessing, (guessing, mind you) that there may be super-splicers who have mutated themselves so far that they're not even humanoid, and probably 'filler' enemies such as rats, spiders, and worms. (I hope not, they're just annoying and cheap -too hard to hit- IMO; mutated pets would be much better.)

On the latter, we know that the splicer class will have different abilities and outfits, wigs, etc. We know of three varities of Big Daddy. As for the Little sisters, we can only hope.
I doubt very much that every single enemy will be unique, there's only so much room on a DVD and only so much time for the artists, modelers, and animators, to make them. The best you can hope for is that they rotate them enough so you don't see the same ones over and over, and preferably have no more that one of each style in any given area at any given time.

[Hatesink]

...please tell me what the following actors are. I'm not sure:Actors? :confused:

[witch]

Hopefully there's some enemies we don't know about, love surprises, :D.

[Mr. Teatime]

This picture is probably quite old. Don't even know if the creature is in the game. However: It shows us that they have ambitions.

http://www.bioshock-online.com/image.asp?concept=2

[Tellurian]

I'm sure there are more than the ones we know.

And I hope I don't see (more) all of them outside of the game before I've seen them in game.

[D'Sparil]

Yes, I would also like to be surprised by some extra creepy mutants or whatever and would rather those images kept hush hush.

[Da Bubs]

This picture is probably quite old. Don't even know if the creature is in the game. However: It shows us that they have ambitions.

http://www.bioshock-online.com/image.asp?concept=2

the gun it is holding appears to be a mp 40 the mutant/bug thing is holding so I would say that it is concept art from the time when the game was going to be set in a nazi lab.

[Pinky_Powers]

the gun it is holding appears to be a mp 40 the mutant/bug thing is holding so I would say that it is concept art from the time when the game was going to be set in a nazi lab.

Yes, concept art should never be viewed as solid in-game content. Wait until you see a screenshot of something before putting your chips on its place in the final product.

[v.dog]

And even then, there's a risk that you may lose- The Hydra was in several screenshots and videos for HL2, but it never made the cut.

[NoxSpartana]

Hmmm... I'm pretty concerned still. I definitely want to see more than only 3(!!!) types of enemies. I'm hoping for 7 or 8 at least.

[v.dog]

The thing you need to remember is that while the splicers might only be one type of enemy, they are not all the same. This isn't like other games where everybody carries the same gun and has the same hitpoints. Some splicers teleport, some crawl on the ceiling, others throw fireballs or use telekenesis. Some will even have more than one ability. You will have to adapt your tactics on a case by case basis, and you won't know what you're up against until they open fire.

And if you count each ability as a separate class (the way you would count human enemies with different guns and armour), there's a lot more than 7 of 8.

[BioShockWins]

I'm just a bit concerned because all I've heard mentioned is turrets, big daddies/little sisters, and splicers. Now I'm *hoping* that there is far more enemy variety than that, but I know that quite a few otherwise good games have fallen short of the mark in this area (Half Life 2 for example...)


9 different types of splicers with randomly generated plasmids in them... but yes
i hope there are more kinds of unknown enemies!!!

ok thats 9 different basic types, and lets say each type uses a certain type of weapon... say 5 of each class... 45 right there... ok, and 8 different strengths... 360 there... oh wait... randomly generated looks? probably about 150 combinations for that... 540,000 types of just SPLICERS!! :eek: yeah... Im sure this will keep my interest for at least a little while...

ok three types of big daddies... just kidding, i don't feel like making up more numbers atm (lol :D )

[lotkrotan]

If you want to get techincal, all Halo has is Brutes, Covenant, and Flood.

However, there are different types of covenant (grunts, elites, jackyls, etc), Brutes (we'll see more variety in halo 3), and Flood (small flood, big flood, flood that have infected bodies)

I expect the same for Splicers, as in one of the videos they've showcased the Ceiling Crawler, and there's male splicers that throw grenades. Also there's the drill big daddy, and the gun ones. These are only in the teasers too.

[Jeff]

that halo analogy was terrible, by your logic all bioshock has are Genetic Mutants, different types but they're all genetic mutants.

"covenant" is the banner of a race of religious fanatics made up of a monagery of classes, each completely different from eachother.

"flood" is the banner title for an entire mutant race, with many different incarnations, all completely different from eachother.

and "brutes" are part of the covenant.

[lotkrotan]

No, the analogy is fine, you just took it the wrong way. You oversimplified. I could do that to Halo and say, "all halo has is Aliens." While that is correct, as is saying all bioshock has is genetic mutants, that's being too simple. In call of duty, all your playing against is germans in a certain map, however, there are MGers, Riffleman, Snipers, Artillery users, etc. and you approach each differently and can easily tell the difference between them. The same can be said about Halo and Bioshock, only on a much larger level, because you aren't just dealing with humans or one species at all.

Covenant are the alien race that come in different classes
Flood are an alien race that have different abilities
Brutes are a different race, that altough are somtimes paired with the covenant *mild spoiler* they can/do act on their own. They will have different classes in Halo 3

Big Daddies are genetic creatures that come in different classes
Splicers are genetically mutated humans that come with different weapons/abilities
Drones are static, as far as I can tell. There are one type. That may change.

You have your stem

Covenant (race, not religious/political system)
Flood (race)
Brutes (race)

and their different branch offs (grunts, elites, etc)

You put this in the bioshock world:

Stems:

Big Daddies
Splicers
Security Drones

and their branch offs (drill daddies, ceiling crawlers, and more to be shown)

You have three different types of enemy, with many variations in both worlds. You will see the difference in splicers as easily as you see the differences in Daedra in oblivion/morrowind or covenant in Halo. You will approach them differently too. While you may charge with a weapon against a melee attacking splicer, you may want to keep your distance and use plasmids against a grenading splicer (who was the same character models in the hunting the big daddy video and the winner of the "what would you do" scenario video)

[BioShockWins]

Covenant, Flood, Setinels... And then Elites because they broke away from the covenant

Covenant (The empire of most of the intelegent species in this galaxy) have Brutes, Jackals, and Drones

Brutes are the gorrila/ape looking things. Their ranks include Brute minor, major (with the small red helmet and I think the red flag), honor guard, and cheiften

Jackals are simpler they have Major and Minor, and snipers

Drones are just bugs, we don't know much about them yet

The Covenant was larger until Halo 2 where there began a civil war

on the Elites side there are Elites (omg), Hunters, and possibly humans because some people think that the humans and the elites are going to work together o.O

Elites are lizard like humanoids, they were the highest ranking race in the Covenant until the Civil war. There are lots and lots of ranks in the elites, some that were just in CE and others brand new in H2 so I won't go over them (all it is, is a change in the color of armor). Hunters are a mass of orange worms, bound together by the armor they wear (yes they are, I would love to get more specific but I'm too lazy). They are all the same basically

Grunts don't really have a choice in the matter of what team they are on.
I guess some have rebelled and are with the Elites. And some have been held on the Covenant.

Major, Minor, and Spec Ops grunts (Red, Orange, and Black respectivley)

Flood has combat forms (Human and Elite) Carrier forms (The guys that explode) and Infection forms which are the small bulb shaped things

Setinels are.... setinels

I think there are Major and Minor setinals... but I don't really know

On the side of the Setinels (depending on your point of view) are the ForRunners. The ones that built Halo and the Ark

No known rank

Prophets are the guys who sit on their floating throwns and yell at the elites

There are HigherArch and .... normal I guess

im not sure if i cleared anything up though o.O

[lotkrotan]

you could classify the sentinels by the beam they use. The green or the blue.

[SPDeath]

I thought splicers was just the general name for mutated human (not including big daddies and little sisters). And from what we've seen so far they look fairly varied. The wallwalking hook ladies, the grenade throwing freaks and the teleporting variety.

[Rapture_Survivalist]

Something i've always wondered about was if there will be other enemies besides the Little Sisters/Big Daddies, Splicers and Security system.

I know that you guys/gals are really trying to focus on the little sister/big daddy ecology, but I was just curious if there will be other beings to shoot with my modified revolver. Maybe give some hints...;)

[Jeff]

yeah, even a simple Yes/No answer from a team member would satisfy my curiousity on the subject at this point.

[smallsey]

im assuming theres the usual "small hard to hit" monster in there somewhere... i hope to see a dog-crocodile

[Rapture_Survivalist]

I'm wondering if the citizens of Rapture experimented on their pets or other animals....



I could just imagine some plasmid-high bunny pick you up and through you with the telekenesis plasmid...:D

[MF9000]

Like the bunny from Monty Python's Holy Grail. :) With big gnashing teeth.

[Soulsphere]

Well, splicer does include a broad range of enemies. Let's see, we have:

-Big Daddy
-Little Sister
-Pyrokinetic Doctors
-Blue Guys that probably use electrical attacks somehow
-Ceiling *****s
-Various other humanoid splicers (that I have no clue about)
-The flying security drones

Otherwise, I have no idea.

[Raveness]

I expect important plot-based characters to provide some physical challenges and combat as well.

Possibly an Adam super sea slug? Or a final showdown with the Slug Queen who has a huge birthing canal http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/dvv/sconf.gif

and SHODAN http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/edoom/robot.gif

[Cthulhu]

Shodan Lives!!!

[Corgano]

im assuming theres the usual "small hard to hit" monster in there somewhere... i hope to see a dog-crocodileUm... wasn't there something in that water video that looked like a frog the size of a dog? :eek: By a vent on the ground off to the right in the video...?

I could be wrong. Maybe my eyes were playing tricks on me...

[v.dog]

There will be local fauna that's not a threat; fish and the like that have come through the cracks. im assuming theres the usual "small hard to hit" monster in there somewhere... i hope to see a dog-crocodileJust as long as there's no spiders, worms, or rats.I'm wondering if the citizens of Rapture experimented on their pets or other animals....I always wanted to know that, too.

One thing that has always ticked me off in games is local fauna that attacks me for no good reason.
The rats in SiN, for example. WT-?! I'm not made of cheese!
To make it worse, they were small, quiet, and a similar colour to the floor. You often didn't know they were attacking you until you started loosing health, and if you're in the middle of a firefight, that doesn't help.

Stalker and Half-Life got it right; the fauna knew its place in the food chain. Stalker especially, with its pack behaviour- if they sensed they could take you they would, but kill too many and the rest ran for the hills.

With that in mind, a pack of giant, fire-breathing poodles would be cool.

[Raveness]

I noticed that about STALKER too, but I thought it was just me. It appears to me, and correct me if I'm wrong, that if a pack of dogs has 5 or more members, they'll charge the player in a frenzy. If there's 2-4, they'll only attack if the player does not draw a gun in their direction, otherwise they hang around you while you stay within their stomping grounds. They seemed to also take notice of the players behavior in relation to other STALKER's. If they witnessed you whacking a few loners in their midst, even a pack would take it easy when you had your rifle raised.

All tiny spiders are annoying. It's incessantly difficult to try and aim an arrow or swipe a sword at a spider no bigger than a potato chip. Damn you Thief games :mad:

[Corgano]

Heh! Don't come to our NWN servers then. I was playing last night and the DM caused a cave in that disturbed a nest of beetles. Some were the size of crickets, I swear! A swarm of these didn't do much damage, but tied you up pretty well as other bigger things snuck into the picture... :eek: