The Great Plasmi-Quik vs Gene Bank Poll

[Raveness]

New article (http://www.2kgames.com/cultofrapture/genebankart.html) has been posted over at the Cult of Rapture, basically showing the concept art, colored art, and some renders of the so-named plasmid dispensing station.

The station looks like a family-friendly dispenser of steriods :p I have the feeling this will rank as the most squeamish method of receiving a game's equivalent of energy.

http://www.2kgames.com/cultofrapture/genebankart.html

[Da Bubs]

personally I thought plasmi-quik was a better name, it is chessy in a good way

[Adabiviak]

"Gene Machine" has a funnier ring.

[Renight]

Well I am actually mad. On the thing it said that the citizins would take things from the surface and reuse them, I liked the feel of the old game demo thing, it was like a real city, you know, everything massed produced, like a real city. But if they change the whole city into some scavenged outpost, it is going to lower my opinion of the overall gameplay.

[D'Sparil]

I don't think thats what they meant. I think they just used the existing technology within the time period and applied it to other uses and gave it a different context. I think they just wanted to create the feeling of what it might have to be constructed out of to be able to "work" and be "real" and believable to the player. Of course Rapture is still a fallen empire so to speak, ruined environments will still be main course of the level design it seems.

[Glottis]

I prefer the Plasma Quik name,to the potential new one. :o

[v.dog]

Gene-Bank sounds more like a repository for genetic material than somewhere to inject your plasmids and become a mutant superhero.

[pn18]

plasma-quick was ten times better than gene bank. such a medical term doesn't fit in a restroom, imo.

[jackinthebox]

it was called "plasmi-quik" not "plasma-quick"... but whatever, i liked the old name much more than "gene bank"... it fitted better in the scenario :(

[Adam Nuhfer]

Plasmi-Quik changed to Gene Bank.

You've got a thread related to the change posted elsewhere on these forums and one over at TTLG.

I'd like to see you re think this one. New name "gene Bank" doesn't do it for the time frame of late 50's or the game. Plasmi-Quik fits the theme much better.


Thanks

[jackinthebox]

i have the same thoughts about this issue... i already posted it in here (http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119), but here's the quote anyway:

it was called "plasmi-quik" not "plasma-quick"... but whatever, i liked the old name much more than "gene bank"... it fitted better in the scenario

i would like to see the old name again... please.

[pn18]

it was called "plasmi-quik" not "plasma-quick"...

I know.
I read threadnames.
I just wanted to test you. :p

[pn18]

"Power to the people!" :p

edit: jack forces me to extend this post with an argument why I want this thing to be called plasmi-quik again. these quotes are from the original thread:
plasma-quick was ten times better than gene bank. such a medical term doesn't fit in a restroom, imo.
it was called "plasmi-quik" not "plasma-quick"... but whatever, i liked the old name much more than "gene bank"... it fitted better in the scenario :(
I know.
I read threadnames.
I just wanted to test you. :p

[LowEnergyCycle]

I gotta agree.

Maybe there should be a poll?

[LowEnergyCycle]

To quote my good self...

Maybe there should be a poll?

So here you go. Plasmi-Quik or Gene Bank?

My good self thinks Gene Bank sucks.

[YogSo]

The rendered Gene-Bank looks quite good, and I like this 'Atlas' character stretching the DNA chain over his head, but... "Gene-Bank" is such a dull sounding name it's a real pity. Even the font selected for the engraved name look dull and boring, like a placeholder (just compare it with the more elegant and stylized font used in "Open For Business").

[jackinthebox]

plasmi-quik for the win! there actually is no better name for this machine...

[pn18]

guess who votes for "gene bank"? I'll help you:
she works for a game publisher in NY ...:D

[LowEnergyCycle]

guess who votes for "gene bank"? I'll help you:
she works for a game publisher in NY ...:D

Son of a...!:mad:

I was rootin' (and tootin', I may add) for a clean 100% vote on "Plasmi-Quik for the entire life of this forum!

Then Mrs 2K comes along and... well... wees on my strawberries!

[Renight]

I want Plasma-quick just becuase its so corny, its cool.
And also becuase it is realistic, back then the named things in corney ways, it was the start of ripoffs in WW2. And besides, they already have it in that demo, why change it? Its already cool and would take less work. I really liked the design of it.
Well actually there is 1 problem with the name. Plasma-quick sounds like a plasmite merchant, not a bank...

[pn18]

Son of a...!:mad:

I was rootin' (and tootin', I may add) for a clean 100% vote on "Plasmi-Quik for the entire life of this forum!

Then Mrs 2K comes along and... well... wees on my strawberries!
:D
You know, it's just a guess. Probably Ken did or just a regular user. I dunno

[Rapture_Tourist]

Nice idea for a poll, but it seems like it turns out to be a petition :)

[LowEnergyCycle]

You know, it's just a guess. Probably Ken did or just a regular user. I dunno

Well, whoever it was, now my strawberries stink!:mad:
I hope you're happy with yourself Mystery Voter. My poor, poor strawberries...:(


Nice idea for a poll, but it seems like it turns out to be a petition

That was secretly my plan...;)

[Bartekk]

I won't vote, because I like both names. It'll be good either way.

[Raveness]

Keep it up everyone :) This should be something that can be easily changed within the last 6 months, so if we harp about the lameness of the "Gene-Bank" title, here and at TTLG, Irrational will lynch whomever wanted this new name.

[2K Elizabeth]

Son of a...!:mad:

I was rootin' (and tootin', I may add) for a clean 100% vote on "Plasmi-Quik for the entire life of this forum!

Then Mrs 2K comes along and... well... wees on my strawberries!

;-) i will continue to be democratic and not turn off the ability to check who votes on what!

[LowEnergyCycle]

Keep it up everyone :) This should be something that can be easily changed within the last 6 months, so if we harp about the lameness of the "Gene-Bank" title, here and at TTLG, Irrational will lynch whomever wanted this new name.

I think this is a good example of how highly we all regard Bioshock and its developer's lineage. Even little things like this mean the world to us.

HEY! Irrational! We love you! So love us back!


;-) i will continue to be democratic and not turn off the ability to check who votes on what!

I'm not sure it's possible since I didn't check the 'Public' box when I made the thread.
But then, maybe you already knew that.... :eek: The plot thickens.....

I don't really mind who voted for "it".

That much.:p

[Adam Nuhfer]

i will continue to be democratic and not turn off the ability to check who votes on what!
Reply With Quote

I'm just hopeful you'll be democratic once the results are in from the poll.

Thanks LEC for the poll. Thanks for everyone posting your thoughts on the name change. Don't know if it will do any good, but it's worth a try.

"Gene bank"--- Reminds me more of "Lean Gene the Dancing Machine" from back in the days of a certain TV game show, "The Gong Show". Just doesn't fit the program decor.

[2K Elizabeth]

I'm just hopeful you'll be democratic once the results are in from the poll.


I wish i were the one the name all the stuff in the game. Place would be called "Elizabethland" rather than Rapture. I think it has a *much* better ring to it.

But seriously, your words have been passed on and I promise we'll look into it. This is one of the great reasons for having a community -- instant feedback.

[pn18]

<3 u :p ........

[v.dog]

But seriously, your words have been passed on and I promise we'll look into it. This is one of the great reasons for having a community -- instant feedback.Good to hear it. :)

[Hatesink]

Plasmi-quick is just way better. It's how you'd sell it, it fits the aesthetic and the whole idiom. It's kind of colourful and humorous in the way Fallout was. Gene-bank is too gray, and far too Deus Ex. It alters the whole tone, and kind of changes my perception of the game's character. It's not good.

I guess I'll just have to pretend it's still called a plasmi-quick. :/

Suddenly I feel like I'm waiting for Deus Ex 3.

[FrenchTart]

I only really voted for gene-bank to see how the choice would be vailidated by the team. I'm sure there's more to it than a random decision for a name change.

[Hatesink]

DX3?? In my mind, I'm still waiting for the sequel to the original Deus Ex ;)To be honest I wasn't that impressed with the first one. :p ;)

and Thief just isn't Thief without parabolic arrows and Mechanists. :(

[Adabiviak]

Plasmi-Quik makes it sound more like a vending machine that one might find as common as a soda or gumball machine, where as Gene Bank makes it sound about as common as an ATM. Both are found regularly, but if you're going to have them in as everyday places as a bathroom, they should use the one that sounds more like a marketing department made it up.

[D'Sparil]

The cheese factor in Plasma-quik is just too good, and does feel at home in a bathroom stall. A bank type apparatus doesn't seem to fit in there. But in all fairness, I will probally like the game either way regardless of how I get my Plasmid fix.

[somecut8]

I personally think Plasmi-Quik is a better name because Gene Bank sounds too generic. Plasmi-Quik is more creative of a name and would suit better with the style Rapture is created in. Rapture was built as a safe haven for scientists who could not perform their experiments on land without persecution. With that in mind, Plasmi-Quik invokes a better sense scientific advancement and creation of new technology. Gene Bank is just a bland name that goes right to the point. It lacks any sense of innovation or creativity. It also goes right to the point and does not have a euphemistic name, unlike Plasmi-Quik.

Also, (I do not know about this because I did not live through the fifties so don't take my word on it), but Plasmi-Quik sounds more in line with the language and advertisement at that time. Gene Bank sounds like a name that someone in the 90's or 2000's would create. Gene Bank reminds me of something like "money in the bank," from a hip hop song, which is definitely not in the style of the 50's

[pn18]

I mean, would you buy a sexual-organ-boosting plasmid from a thing called gene bank? seriously...;)

[LowEnergyCycle]

But seriously, your words have been passed on and I promise we'll look into it. This is one of the great reasons for having a community -- instant feedback.

That's the kinda thing that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Bless us, aren't we great? :) :p :D :cool:

I think somecut8's comments pretty much nail it for me, but I guess I also prefer "Plasmi-Quik" because (for some reason) it kinda reminds me of Fallout's cute little PipBoy.

I dunno - it's years since I played Fallout, but maybe it's the shared, cheeky, almost childish sense of humour they both seem to convey? Does anybody else see a comparison?

[jackinthebox]

That's the kinda thing that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Bless us, aren't we great? :) :p :D :cool:

I think somecut8's comments pretty much nail it for me, but I guess I also prefer "Plasmi-Quik" because (for some reason) it kinda reminds me of Fallout's cute little PipBoy.

I dunno - it's years since I played Fallout, but maybe it's the shared, cheeky, almost childish sense of humour they both seem to convey? Does anybody else see a comparison?

yeah... i had the same thought at the beginning of this forum. you can read my post here (http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=156&postcount=3). especially the posters in BioShock remind me of Fallout... 2 great games =)

[Corgano]

Plasmi-quick is just way better. It's how you'd sell it, it fits the aesthetic and the whole idiom. It's kind of colourful and humorous in the way Fallout was. Gene-bank is too gray, and far too Deus Ex. It alters the whole tone, and kind of changes my perception of the game's character. It's not good.

I guess I'll just have to pretend it's still called a plasmi-quick. :/ I agree, even though I like calling it "Plasma-Quick". Aye, "Gene-Bank" has a certain... I don't know, drabness about it.

[LowEnergyCycle]

^^Doh! Turns out it was something as obvious as a shared visual style. I probably should'a noticed that...

Ah well. At least somebody agrees :)

[GuybrushThreepwood]

Just some thought, but what about a neutral name like 'Plasmid dispenser' or a 'Plasmid-o-matic'? They are less silly maybe (for some at least) than Plasmi-Quik and less clinical/boring than 'Gene bank'

[GuybrushThreepwood]

I voted Plasmi-Quik in the poll. But if they want or have to change the name, why choose such horrible and uncreative name like Gene bank? :eek:

What about Plasmid dispenser or Plasmid-o-matic? Anything would be better than Gene bank imho.

[Bartekk]

What's your Goddamn point people in creating ten threads about the same thing?...

[jackinthebox]

Just some thought, but what about a neutral name like 'Plasmid dispenser' or a 'Plasmid-o-matic'? They are less silly maybe (for some at least) than Plasmi-Quik and less clinical/boring than 'Gene bank'

no bad ideas... but i think plasmi-quik is the best name you can give this machine ;)
i noticed your nick GuybrushThreepwood... at least somebody likes the good old lucasarts games ;)

[Giftmacher]

I like plasmi-quik better too, but then I'm just impressed that any Sci-Fi game should even mention plasmids. You could go one further and call it a CRE/Lox recombinase station? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cre-Lox_recombination) :P LOL

Gift.

[jackinthebox]

I like plasmi-quik better too, but then I'm just impressed that any Sci-Fi game should even mention plasmids. You could go one further and call it a CRE/Lox recombinase station? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cre-Lox_recombination) :P LOL

Gift.

let's call it a flux capacitor ;) there are 3 threads about this issue, so i don't want to post everywhere the same^^ i'm still certain that the old name is the better name... and i hope everybody shares my belief...

[Da Bubs]

Just some thought, but what about a neutral name like 'Plasmid dispenser' or a 'Plasmid-o-matic'? They are less silly maybe (for some at least) than Plasmi-Quik and less clinical/boring than 'Gene bank'

I thought the point of giving it a funny name was so that people that used it would be less likely to realize that what they are doing is probably immoral, it makes sense from a marketing point of view

[LowEnergyCycle]

Woah! Somebody's been busy combining all the related threads. It's a good idea I guess. Anyway, I really hope Irrational pay attention to things like this. I mean, we are their target audience. We are the ones who will definitely buy Bioshock. So surely our opinion matters?

I know it's only a small thing (Plasmi-Quik... Gene Bank... really does it matter?), but as somebody has already pointed out (somewhere... maybe I'm making this up... I dunno), it's a scary thought to think that some features may have been dumbed down in Bioshock.

Our hopes are very high, Irrational. Please don't screw this up, just so it will sell more.

[MacarenaRowBot]

Ill just jump on the bandwagon. Plasmi-quik does sound better to me. However, if they dont change that minute detail, im not going to think any less of it. It is just a name of but one function in the entirety of the game, and I can get over it.
I would love to understand a bit more about Irrationals reasons for changing it, I havent pursued the matter, but I want to see why such a small detail actually matters enough to change.

[Mr. Teatime]

Plasmi-Quik makes it sound more like a vending machine that one might find as common as a soda or gumball machine, where as Gene Bank makes it sound about as common as an ATM. Both are found regularly, but if you're going to have them in as everyday places as a bathroom, they should use the one that sounds more like a marketing department made it up.

I agree. That is what I first thought when I first read the article on "Cult of Rapture". It is really a question of marketing. I know you allready have seen other "Rapture advertisments" (and perhaps advertisment from the 50's and 60's?), and "Plasmi-Quik" sounds somewhat better with this theme. "Gene-Bank", on the other hand, is what the governments will call this device in the future. :D

And yes. I voted for "Plasmi-Quik".

By the way: It would be nice if they told us why they changed the name. The devices look the same... :confused:

[Hatesink]

I was rootin' (and tootin', I may add) for a clean 100% vote on "Plasmi-Quik for the entire life of this forum!

Then Mrs 2K comes along and... well... wees on my strawberries!:D
You know, it's just a guess. Probably Ken did or just a regular user. I dunnoWell, whoever it was...I hope you're happy with yourself Mystery Voter. My poor, poor strawberries...:( Well if anyone's going to pee on my strawberries, I'd much rather it was Elizabeth ;)

i noticed your nick GuybrushThreepwood... at least somebody likes the good old lucasarts games ;)I think there's also a 'Glottis' around here somewhere also.

I personally think Plasmi-Quik is a better name because Gene Bank sounds too generic. Plasmi-Quik is more creative of a name and would suit better with the style Rapture is created in.Plasmi-Quik makes it sound more like a vending machine that one might find as common as a soda or gumball machine, where as Gene Bank makes it sound about as common as an ATM. Both are found regularly, but if you're going to have them in as everyday places as a bathroom, they should use the one that sounds more like a marketing department made it up.I agree. Gene Bank is too 'gray urban', maybe a 'dark, gray, navy blue'. It's not even olive drab. I'm very concerned they might be graying BioShock down for the wider market.

Plasmi-Quik just makes more sense (the misspelling of 'Quick' might be a little too 'modern', but you could assume Rapture also has the best ('before their time') marketers the world has to offer). I could more readily imagine a flapper using a 'Plasmi-Quick', rather than a gene bank.

Gene bank sounds like a generic industry trade journal term for a financial product.

How would genetic enhancements be advertised: "Genetic Adaptation Product #35676" or "I Can't Believe it's Not Nature!"

[LowEnergyCycle]

Well if anyone's going to pee on my strawberries, I'd much rather it was Elizabeth

Hahahaha!!:D :eek: :D :eek:
If that's what tickles your pickle Hatesink...


"I Can't Believe it's Not Nature!"

And that's hillarious! I can imagine the TV adds and everything now...

[Hatesink]

If that's what tickles your pickle Hatesink...:D

But seriously— dude— have you seen her? She could pee on anyone's strawberries ;)

[LowEnergyCycle]

:D But seriously— dude— have you seen her?

Unfortunately not. And even though she's currently around 30miles away, I can predict my GF's 6th Sense is tingling - the one that flairs up when you're (innocently) thinking about another woman peeing on strawberries.

(Wow... I never thought I'd ever have need to type that...)

I'll be in big trouble later...

[Hatesink]

Just tell her it's always going to be her you want peeing on your soft-fruits. ;)

[Mr. Teatime]

Right...

Anyway: I have not noticed that it's "Plasmi Quik" and not "Plasmi Quick". I would say that "Plasmi Quick" sounds better, but they are both way better than "Gene Bank".

[D'Sparil]

I agree. That is what I first thought when I first read the article on "Cult of Rapture". It is really a question of marketing. I know you allready have seen other "Rapture advertisments" (and perhaps advertisment from the 50's and 60's?), and "Plasmi-Quik" sounds somewhat better with this theme. "Gene-Bank", on the other hand, is what the governments will call this device in the future. :D

And yes. I voted for "Plasmi-Quik".

By the way: It would be nice if they told us why they changed the name. The devices look the same... :confused:


I agree with the whole idea that plasma-quik does sound very 50's... and maybe when getting Plasmids I can get some X-ray specs and secret spy decoder rings too!

[Adam Nuhfer]

Help me out on this one. I only can see two related to it on these forums. Please point out the other eight as I missed them somehow.

Thanks

[Bartekk]

Help me out on this one. I only can see two related to it on these forums. Please point out the other eight as I missed them somehow.

Thanks

01 Re think this please
02 The Great Plasmi-Quik vs Gene Bank Poll
03 Plasmi-Quik changed to Gene Bank (currently joined with 02)

Another thing, don't act like a jerk. You know I exaggerated it to point out what I meant. And I didn't change my mind. After creation of Plasmi-Quik changed to Gene Bank there was absolutely no point in making another two threads, just to scream out that you guys don't like the name change.

[v.dog]

And Sea-Monkeys! :D

[CrashT]

Gene-Bank makes it sound as if you can "deposit" unused plasmids there and then "withdraw" them, potentially in a different location, at a later time. If that is possible (No idea, never heard anything like it mentioned anyway so far), then I can see why the name was changed because it's a much more meaningful name than "Plasmi-Quik" which is appealing but doesn't actually tell you that much about what it does.

For a while I'd thought that "Plasmi-Quik" was a brand name, and that you'd have several different brands of Plasmid dispenser (For want of a better term) throughout Rapture; some owned by Ryan and some of Fontaine.

Considering Irrational have a tendancy to make every detail mean something I'm sure there's a sensible reason behind the name change.

[jackinthebox]

Right...

Anyway: I have not noticed that it's "Plasmi Quik" and not "Plasmi Quick". I would say that "Plasmi Quick" sounds better, but they are both way better than "Gene Bank".

it's called plasmi-quik... look at this screenshot (http://www.2kgames.com/cultofrapture/screenshots/screenshot_19_xl.jpg).

[Mr. Teatime]

it's called plasmi-quik... look at this screenshot (http://www.2kgames.com/cultofrapture/screenshots/screenshot_19_xl.jpg).

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. Before reading several posts on this forum, I thought the name was "Plasmi-Quick". Now I know otherwise.

Thanks anyway. ;)

----------

In a matter of interest: Are there several meanings to the word "quik"? Like a pun? My English knowlege is limited.

[Da Bubs]

In a matter of interest: Are there several meanings to the word "quik"? Like a pun? My English knowlege is limited.

no, its a diliberate misspelling,means the same thing as "Quick" and is pronounced the same. I think that kind of thing was somewhat common in advertisements from the 1950's. It is sort of like how "light" is spelled "lite" now, only that is done for differnt reasons.

[Glottis]

i have the same thoughts about this issue... i already posted it in here (http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119), but here's the quote anyway:


i would like to see the old name again... please.


Another vote for the plasm quik name,it just 'fits' with the whole 50/60's theme.... ;)

[witch]

Vote for plasma as well, "gene bank" sounds too generic.

[Hatesink]

In a matter of interest: Are there several meanings to the word "quik"? Like a pun? My English knowlege is limited.I'm not sure but I think misspellings are generally used in brand names as a kind of mnemonic.

[Mr. Teatime]

I see.. Thanks to you both.

[v.dog]

Also to aid trademarking and to avoid litigation.

"Changing my plasmid took over three hours! That's false advertising!"
'Not at all. It's plasmi-quik, not plamsi-quick'.

Snackalicious and other made up words are there for the same reasons.

[Silent Film]

"Changing my plasmid took over three hours! That's false advertising!"
'Not at all. It's plasmi-quik, not plamsi-quick'.

The scoundrels!

[Adam Nuhfer]

Another thing, don't act like a jerk. You know I exaggerated it to point out what I meant. And I didn't change my mind. After creation of Plasmi-Quik changed to Gene Bank there was absolutely no point in making another two threads, just to scream out that you guys don't like the name change.


I was just asking where the other ones were. I was only aware of two. My post being the second. Don't read more into it than there is. I know I started the second thread related to the subject matter. There are a number of different threads posted by various members related to the same subject matter, i.e., killing Little Sisters, etc.. This one thread is no different. I don't have much time to read through all the posts. I assumed you knew where there were more posts related to this subject matter under different titles. We all know how a thread starts off in one topic only to wind up in a different one. Exaggeration or not, I figured you had a better handle on it than I did. Just trying to follow this thread as well as I can to see the input from various members related to the name change. I want to see how our feedback will effect the final release version. Will we really have a say? Time will tell.

I know it's just a PC/console game. The name change is really no big deal as it's really just a minor change in the overall game. Why they changed the name is what I find the most interesting. All I see is mostly speculation on why they did. The people whom do know haven't said as of yet. At least, not that I'm aware of. So, I follow the plight as well as I can. I miss a lot as I'm time constrained right now. Working 16 hours shifts. Only have a half hour to check up on these forums along with TTLG. Then it's back to work.

Thanks

[LowEnergyCycle]

Dear Bartekk,

Get a grip boy! It's not the end of the world! Why are you so pissed about it? All you seem to do around here is ***** about the content of the forum. Try talking about... I dunno... Bioshock for a while. Cuz that's the whole point.

I really do wonder where this guy's sense of humor has gone. And how much it's gonna hurt to pull it back out.:eek:

[Bartekk]

Adam Nuhfer
Here comes internet communication. You can’t really say whether someone’s sarcastic, fooling around, mocking, etc. or just saying what he says. You don’t have a contact with people, you can just read what they write and thus, it may lead to misunderstanding.

LowEnergyCycle
I’m never pissed about anything around the net. But that doesn’t mean I can’t say I don’t like this or that. For instance, I don’t like when forum is flooded with x threads related to the exact same thing. And like Adam Nuhfer said, this IS the case here. But that’s not my forum and I don’t really care, make x threads for everything if you like, no problem. Mods can join them together after all (and as I can see, now there’s one topic for Plasmi-Quik vs Gene Bank). What I refer to mainly is that shortly after announcement of name change there were three threads already, like ‘Listen to us IG! Change that thing back to Plasmi-Quik now!’, while I’m sure one single thread for that matter would be enough for IG to see what community thinks. That’s all.

By the way, I don’t see what my sense of humor has to do with what we’re talking here over.

[lurchibald]

"Expand your genetic capabilities, steal unsuspecting technology and maximize your GENE BANK'S diversity".

"The different gene combinations will allow for several strategies during combat. For example, some attacks will deplete your enemy's health faster, but leave fewer resources for you to collect after they've been defeated"

In Essence The ORIGINAL Plasmi-Quik name should be bought back, Because these two quotes Are talking about a Relatively new game "Genesis Rising", Thats right the Gene Bank name has already been taken {see below}





http://www.genesisrisinggame.com/features.html

and

http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3156583