Official outstanding issues - post here, it's what I read!

[2K Elizabeth]

Hey guys,

I know that there are some unanswered questions surrounding BioShock 2 and in order to keep track of what is left and give you guys updates easily, I'm consolidating everything into this new thread. Specifically, these two threads are now closed and coming here:

http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71025
http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68734

I do not have an update now, but I am going to use this thread to report on the status of patches (and their contents) for all platforms, relay information about DLC, playlists, and any other bugs that you have sent to me in the past (or post here in the future.)

Please keep all these issues in this thread - this is what I'm going to read, and I don't want to miss anything.

Thanks.

*****

UPDATE

Hey guys,

I have an update on the status of patches for BioShock 2 and some answers to questions on features that have been outstanding for a while. We will not be adding vending machine sounds into any version of BioShock 2 and we will not be adding playlists for the multiplayer DLC maps – we did look in to both options but due to technical and timing issues, these two fixes are not feasible. We are planning patches for the 360 and PS3 to fix some functionality issues, but they will not drastically change gameplay (and I’ll post the patch notes when I get them – these two items are still in with QA.) We will also not be offering Protector Trials and Minerva’s Den on the PC in the future – and I want to say that I’m sorry for the disappointment this will cause to PC players out there. As always, if any of these issues change in the future, I will update you guys first, but at this point in time I don’t want to make you wait any longer and these are the most definite answers I have and you guys should deem them final decisions.

Please feel free to PM me or email with any questions – I’ll follow up in this thread as best as possible but if I miss your comment, I’m not ignoring you – I might just not have read the post – If this happens, again, just ping me and we can chat.

Thanks,

Elizabeth

[Kleetus]

Why is the planned patch taking so long?

My issues:

Key bindings are still messed up.

Vsync has a mind of it's own.

Surround sound is broken. I only get 2.1 instead of 5.1.

Vending machine sounds missing.

And there are more, but I'm sure you're aware of what they are.

[ptbacic]

Liz,
Will there be a true patch? Please just respond me that, it's all I want to know, and if possibly when will it be out? I got an email from you sent two months ago and you SAID that it would take a month or two to complete the patch (so far nothing) so here I am asking again.
Will we have a patch? Is it really true or not?
Thanks.

[angrybeavers]

Seconded like you wouldn't BELIEVE, it's so seconded. It's so seconded it's seconded twice.

Practically 8 months now and we're still waiting on a patch that fixes stuff that was claimed to be fixed in the first patch.

No patch has done anything for Single Player.

We need to be told something other than "sit on your hands and wait".

Tell us these things:
1. Why the huge delay in the patch?
2. What is currently holding it back from release?
3. In what quarter of what year is it tentatively estimated for release?
4. When will the single player DLC come to PC?
5. How will 2K make up to their still-furious customers this giant fiasco? 2K's going to have to make nice, and do a damn good job, if they ever want my money again. And by the looks of it, I'm not alone in this.

I'm noting that the last comment on the patch to fix DLC leaderboard for PC was "it won't come in August 3rd, but soon after we hope". It's closer to October 3rd than September 3rd now.

[boblastears]

Should we post glitchs here as well? I'm experincing quite a few laterly. One that happened twice so far is being killed and getting unable to respawn. Had to wait the match end. A new and anoying one was having the waterfall effect for a almost half a match.

[wilk0r]

Consolidate all you like but remember the reason you had to consolidate in the first place - a thread called "ETA for 'Big Patch'?" recieved no definitive answer and thus kept growing (...to about 800 posts). The issues compiled as NOTHING was done, and now this thread will do exactly the same. I would be _raging_ at these phantom devs who are meant to be fixing stuff...

...such as the ability to bind ANY key to ANY action via the game UI (much like Wolfenstein 3D).

This issue alone is just hysterically poor for a title released in 2010 :(

[LanceGlorytower]

The community is still waiting for an update regarding the Metro Map pack DLC "playlist" as well. There is no confirmation yet if a playlist is or is not going to be implemented as once implied in the multiplayer.

The thread reached 1905 posts, admittedly most of it is just the players slapping up posts to complain about 2Ks lack of foresight or communication or feeling like they've been taken for a ride and so on, and most by the same people over and over, but that just goes to show how serious this is to the community and we are still waiting for regular updates on the status of this.

I mention this after reading through the other posts first here making sure the subject was not yet touched, and I would like to point out to my fellow forum dwellers that I am NOT turning this into a flame thread like "A DLC check in..." http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1148369#post1148369 but just to make sure it is added to the list of issues as 2K Elizabeth requested, so I hope nobody spams this thread to.

[sahd0w]

Mouse sensitivity keeps going too high whenever the game loads a new area.

[Dingenskirchen]

PS3 loading issue reported from multiple users.

Example: http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85868

[Brodde]

I still cant save my single player games without creating a hotmail account.

[Kleetus]

I still cant save my single player games without creating a hotmail account.

That's by design. It uses Game for Windows LIVE, and it requires an account to save, even in single-player.

It's annoying, but it's not a bug, and I doubt they will be patching it out anytime soon.

[angrybeavers]

Mouse sensitivity keeps going too high whenever the game loads a new area.

Yes, they screwed the pooch on that one. There is however a temporary back-end fix if you'd like help.

[Teedee]

I'm considering purchasing Minerva's Den DLC but see reports that it damages the game. I'd like to see a working fix before spending any more money.

[Mistress Of Fear]

I still cant save my single player games without creating a hotmail account.

?? I use my yahoo address on GFWL, I don't think you need hotmail it just suggest using that because Windows owns it.

[FireyFate]

Is the lack of PC DLC considered an outstanding issue, or a dead issue?

[NickM]

On the PC:

1. Vending machine sounds absent

2. Big sister music looping on one level (can't remember which)

3. Plasmid order gets randomised every time a new one is aquired

4. Bink video sound volume is set by music volume slider (turn off music for the looped level and all bink movies are silent)

5. Protector Trials unavailable on PC

6. Minerva's Den unavailable on PC

7. Evasive and uninvolved community managers (sorry, but you did ask)

[2K Elizabeth]

I'm considering purchasing Minerva's Den DLC but see reports that it damages the game. I'd like to see a working fix before spending any more money.

Can you PM me more details on what you mean about this? (Everyone else's comments are already known - I'm not ignoring you but you don't have to report old issues - I assure you that I have those!)

[Brodde]

?? I use my yahoo address on GFWL, I don't think you need hotmail it just suggest using that because Windows owns it.You can use any mail address to sign up for your new account, yes. I don't want to sign up. It doesn't matter what kind of third party sponsor it is, I do not want to have a free account at Starbucks, IKEA, Norton, GoatPorn.com, GFWL or any other sponsor.

However, if a third party service would add some benefit, I would consider it of course. If I was interested in online achievements, online multi player or power-point integration, I would probably sign up for GFWL immediately. (And if I wanted to be able to order coffee in game, I would go for a StarBucks mod, any day).

But blatantly crippling the game, just to force you to support an unnecessary third party product, that's insulting.

There is no technical, or even time saving reason in this case.

[Varg]

On the PC:

- No Singleplayer main menu music is playing.

[Mistress Of Fear]

GoatPorn.com
hehe

You can use any mail address to sign up for your new account, yes. I don't want to sign up. It doesn't matter what kind of third party sponsor it is, I do not want to have a free account at Starbucks, IKEA, Norton, GoatPorn.com, GFWL or any other sponsor.

However, if a third party service would add some benefit, I would consider it of course. If I was interested in online achievements, online multi player or power-point integration, I would probably sign up for GFWL immediately. (And if I wanted to be able to order coffee in game, I would go for a StarBucks mod, any day).

But blatantly crippling the game, just to force you to support an unnecessary third party product, that's insulting.

There is no technical, or even time saving reason in this case.
Makes sense, unfortunately they will most likely never take GFWL off. The only copy that doesn't have that I believe is the one for steam but that is also 3rd party for you have to have steam downloaded on to you comp.

[doomed]

Elizabeth, if you could please forward this message to the appropriate people:

2K needs to update to the latest version of the Bink middleware: http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1097519&postcount=137

It will likely solve all the issues with the bink files.

[Brodde]

Makes sense, unfortunately they will most likely never take GFWL off. The only copy that doesn't have that I believe is the one for steam but that is also 3rd party for you have to have steam downloaded on to you comp. Even the steam version requires GFWL. It also requires SecuROM. Then you are stuck with 3 third party tools that are not even compatible.

The only copy that I know of that don't require GFWL (or steam, or securom) is a pirate copy. (It is faking a offline GFWL profile).

Its ironic that you need to turn to piracy to get the better quality product. Maybe I am naive, hoping 2K will reward us, the paying customers with a product of at least the same quality.

[Zuzax]

Can you PM me more details on what you mean about this? (Everyone else's comments are already known - I'm not ignoring you but you don't have to report old issues - I assure you that I have those!)Zooming in and enhancing on this statement:
...you don't have to report old issues - I assure you that I have those!Since you state in the above post in your own words that you have a list or some other grouping of these known issues, can you please post a listing of what 2K understands to be the known issues within Bioshock 2 in this thread?

If you cannot post such a list of the known issues, can you please explain to the Bioshock 2 community what the benefit is to the community for 2K to withhold this information?

[guthwulf_de]

Hi, I haven't been here for a while and I just wanted to ask if the playlist for the DLC maps is a thing that is still going to happen in the future?
I bought the Rapture Metro pack shortly after it was released and I still haven't played ONE of the new maps yet...

[wilk0r]

...Since you state in the above post in your own words that you have a list or some other grouping of these known issues, can you please post a listing of what 2K understands to be the known issues within Bioshock 2 in this thread?

If you cannot post such a list of the known issues, can you please explain to the Bioshock 2 community what the benefit is to the community for 2K to withhold this information?

Good question. I'd also like an answer to this, please.

[noneed4me2]

Being a longtime observer of these threads I can tell you that all the problems have been for the most part reported and then addressed by Liz herself in previous threads. Just not patched properly or at all.:(

As far as there being one place so she doesn't miss any problems seems absurd. Just more deflecting from the fact that these problems have been unresolved for months and discussed at length, without any real info on when they will actually done instead of just hinted at being fixed. Looks bad for new users to show up and see a huge thread and no definitive info on what's being done.

Plus reading through them gives insight at 2K's clever avoidance. I am sorry if this hurts anyone's feeling but hey prove me wrong and I will happily admit defeat; if it means playing my new maps bug free in public.;)

[Kleetus]

These issues could have been fixed a long time ago, but 2K doesn't want to dedicate the resources.

DLC, patches for DLC, and building up hype for future titles are another matter $$$$$

This thread is pointless, and will simply morph into another "ETA for Big Patch" thread, where after many months and hundreds of posts it will be closed. YAWN

[Invader]

IMPORTANT QUESTION:

Is the Metro patch an abandoned project? It's nigh on 4 or 5 months now since it came out. WAAAY more than enough time to release a patch. You originally said it would be released roughly a month after the issue came to the devs' attention, if everything went perfectly. Well, what the hell went wrong? Sure, I guess an extra month's wait would be somewhat acceptable, but the huge delay we have now... well, it's pretty embarassing. What I, and everyone who still gives a damn wants to know is: is it even still in the works?

ANOTHER IMPORTANT QUESTION:

Even though I only play Minerva's Den anymore, which has these anyway- why do the original single player campaign's vending machines still lack noise?


These issues could have been fixed a long time ago, but 2K doesn't want to dedicate the resources.

DLC, patches for DLC, and building up hype for future titles are another matter $$$$$

This thread is pointless, and will simply morph into another "ETA for Big Patch" thread, where after many months and hundreds of posts it will be closed. YAWN


^ This.

[SoIHerdULiekBoxxy]

post here, it's what I read!

Thread title is very re-assuring

Nice to know that everyone who posted in the DLC thread, that you started by the way, was being listened to :rolleyes:

If you hadn't ignored that thread for like a month, then there wouldn't be pages and pages of speculation in it as to whether the patch is still in progress or not, and you wouldn't need to start this thread (since it's a carbon copy of the DLC thread). Sure, Mafia 2 came out, but you posted in other Bioshock threads during that time, so that excuse won't work

It doesn't take 30 seconds to come in and acknowledge the people still posting, but obviously that was too much for a Community Manager....

:)

[Jules753]

How come the SP dlc isnt out for PC yet?! O_o

[Moldy Clay]

I know you already know about the problems we are all experiencing regarding Rapture Metro for everything, and that you can't provide an ETA, but I just want to know if the mythical "Playlist Patch" is actually being worked on and where it is on the list of priorities.

Otherwise, I have no actual problems with any of the rest of the game. It's just that. D:

[sahd0w]

I still cant save my single player games without creating a hotmail account.

Trust me this is a good thing!! You'll get gamerscore for your achievements (like, for the XBox account too :D)

[noneed4me2]

Trust me this is a good thing!! You'll get gamerscore for your achievements (like, for the XBox account too :D)

Me for one would just be happy to play the game at all on the PC. Sans achievements is fine because to alot of older gamers achievements are a lame way of companies to keep track of your spending, and just unnescessary. But tis a gimmick the game companies like and its fine for consoles but on a system like the PC it's just another way to break the game. Plus it's an excuse to bloat the software even; more often making it unplayable.

[Erorrless]

PS3
- scout plasmid makes plasmid hands disappear after use of scout, death fixes it (i cant describe it well, it happens in fontaine futuristics the most)
- some audio diaries miss the "click" when you pick them up
- paupers drop, big sister music keeps playing even after you kill her
- lots of textures on signs especially (atlantic express etc) are fuzzy
- missing vending machine sounds
- natural camouflage tonic doesnt always work in fontaine futurisitcs level
- edges of helmet disappear at beginnings of some levels and show up again when you go underwater
- drill lurker doesnt silent my steps
- frozen drill doesnt seem to affect winter blast as advertised (longer freeze)
- lots of texture pop in, not only after a load or a new room entry, but if i turn around and lose something out of my sight sometimes its fuzzy when i turn back
- overall lack of polish

[zyanitevp]

Anyone know how to fix a font issue? Every time I try to play the spoken language is English, but the written language appears as 1/8 english and the rest a combination of symbols (looks like wingdings) and Arabic.

[buruburu]

PS3

I purchased and downloaded the Minerva's Den DLC through the Playstation Store the other day. After several attempts to install, uninstall, delete, and reinstall both the game and the DLC I am still unable to play or even access the DLC which I have purchased. The Downloaded Content option in the game's main menu remains greyed out and inaccessible. I have installed all of the latest system and game updates. Is there any fix for this issue?

Any help will be appreciated

Thank you

[FireyFate]

FYI guys, this thread is not here to help any of you. 2k wants this information, which they will take and probably never do anything about. They've proven this over and over again since release...

Responding to our legitimate complaints in any meaningful way appears to be beyond their level of capability or caring.

[radios]

the only problems i remember are the constant random crashing of GFWL while in a game, sometimes a few minutes, sometimes more than an hour passes before it crashes, there isn't any meaningful error code, either, back when the techs were here, some other people had the same issue, some still do, and the techs couldn't pin it down because it don't have a meaningful error code.. the other issue i had was when the corpse glowed gold, and you were supposed to get something from them, i couldn't, it was like the object wasn't there.. and i didn't reassign keys, either.. as far as the patch goes, 2KElizabeth is doing what she can, but, obviously, the problem goes MUCH higher up the ladder, whether it's the management at 2K, or the parent company, take two interactive, if THEY even know about this delay, could be the problem. it's management somewhere!!.. anyone under them CAN'T say much, for fear of getting FIRED!.. so that's why they seem evasive!..

[Lazygoat]

Simple question, please answer it - £10 is a lot of money to spend without EVER seeing ANY of the maps.

over 300 games.

not ONE on a new map.

If it is not coming please just tell me that, and i'll know to stop waiting. But tell me something. Seriously, in no other industry would this be acceptable - charging people for a service that cannot be accessed in any way other than down to sheer luck on an infinitesimally small ratio of chance.

If the idea is to simply stonewall the players who bought it until Bioshock infinite is out i can't honestly say that i would refuse to buy that on principle, or start throwing around my consumer rights like some people do on these forums, but with no info coming out i really think you are burning a lot of built up goodwill, and making people second guess buying future dlc at the very least.

Just an honest "no, we're not doing it" would be less insulting than this, so go on...

do the right thing.

[FireyFate]

Just an honest "no, we're not doing it" would be less insulting than this, so go on...

do the right thing.

You are way out of line and asking too much.


That's not what I think... but what 2k thinks.

[domino29]

Just found out the old DLC thread got shoved out.

I knew it. I said a few months ago, when the thread goes, any 2K DLC dies.

Its dead.

[2K Elizabeth]

Just found out the old DLC thread got shoved out.

I knew it. I said a few months ago, when the thread goes, any 2K DLC dies.

Its dead.

If I have news that is bad, I'll give it to you. Whether the final answer I receive is all positive or not, I'm going to post it. I just don't have the final answers yet.

The threads are not dead - they are here now, with a clearer title for everyone to find.

[Devilman]

Hello, I don't know if I have to post it here (I've already made a topic about it).

PS3 version (PAL french) :

When Minerva's Den is installed, I can't play the regular single player game with my saves, I just get the loading screen (with the song), but nothing happens...

Everything works fine again when I erase Minerva's Den... and the bug occur again when I re-install it...

I've seen on several forums that other players have the same problem.

Thanks.

[RESCO]

2K, why don't you give us the DLC playlist for the new maps?
and what about the rebirth problem on PS3
we're waiting for weeks/months now....

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[Zuzax]

...with a clearer title for everyone to find.

And since that clear title (that you wrote) states that this is an "Official outstanding issues" thread can you please post a listing of what 2K understands to be the official outstanding issues within Bioshock 2 in this thread?

If you cannot post such a list of the outstanding issues, can you please explain to the Bioshock 2 community what the benefit is to the community for 2K to withhold this information?

[angrybeavers]

Don't hold your breath Zuzax. She won't answer, she just says "oh all the stuff you guys have said is known".

Also she says "just be patient I have no news we are still working on it."

I believe we are being lied to. There is no work being done, no patch, no fix, no pc release for dlc.

If that's incorrect, 2K, then prove me wrong. Today. Explain the delays on the patch. Explain what's being fixed. Explain why it's 8 months after relase and you haven't fixed things you swore and promised would be fixed immediately.

You can't, I wager. Just obfuscate, duck, avoid, and insult your customers.

Hope you think it's a good idea to lose customers, because you have done so just wonderfully, by treating us like dung.

Let's go one step further: give me proof of a patch forthcoming, as well as a time estimate, by the end of this week, or return my money. You have had enough chances and you have abused my faith every time.

You have my email, Elizabeth. Let's talk refund. I know you won't be able to provide real answers. The game does not work as advertised and even things your company claimed to fix are broken. You and me, let's talk refund now.

[FireyFate]

Don't hold your breath Zuzax. She won't answer, she just says "oh all the stuff you guys have said is known".

Also she says "just be patient I have no news we are still working on it."

I believe we are being lied to. There is no work being done, no patch, no fix, no pc release for dlc.

If that's incorrect, 2K, then prove me wrong. Today. Explain the delays on the patch. Explain what's being fixed. Explain why it's 8 months after relase and you haven't fixed things you swore and promised would be fixed immediately.

You can't, I wager. Just obfuscate, duck, avoid, and insult your customers.

Hope you think it's a good idea to lose customers, because you have done so just wonderfully, by treating us like dung.

Let's go one step further: give me proof of a patch forthcoming, as well as a time estimate, by the end of this week, or return my money. You have had enough chances and you have abused my faith every time.

You have my email, Elizabeth. Let's talk refund. I know you won't be able to provide real answers. The game does not work as advertised and even things your company claimed to fix are broken. You and me, let's talk refund now.

*clap clap clap clap*

[Ubuntu Solo]

Don't hold your breath Zuzax. She won't answer, she just says "oh all the stuff you guys have said is known".

Also she says "just be patient I have no news we are still working on it."

I believe we are being lied to. There is no work being done, no patch, no fix, no pc release for dlc.

If that's incorrect, 2K, then prove me wrong. Today. Explain the delays on the patch. Explain what's being fixed. Explain why it's 8 months after relase and you haven't fixed things you swore and promised would be fixed immediately.

You can't, I wager. Just obfuscate, duck, avoid, and insult your customers.

Hope you think it's a good idea to lose customers, because you have done so just wonderfully, by treating us like dung.

Let's go one step further: give me proof of a patch forthcoming, as well as a time estimate, by the end of this week, or return my money. You have had enough chances and you have abused my faith every time.

You have my email, Elizabeth. Let's talk refund. I know you won't be able to provide real answers. The game does not work as advertised and even things your company claimed to fix are broken. You and me, let's talk refund now.

Amen.

They keep asking us to be patient, yet they give us nothing in return. And then they get mad when you get angry? Gee, I wonder why?

As to your refund idea, you do realize if they ever decided to give you a refund (never going to happen buy IF), this entire process would begin anew, right? They'd promise a refund and months later you'd still be waiting for a check and the only answer would be "I do not have an answer right now".

This is 2k's M.O..

For an example of how to properly run a known issues thread, see this example: http://gbxforums.gearboxsoftware.com/showthread.php?t=102596

[angrybeavers]

If it goes to that stage I believe that there are other options at my disposal, legally.

[2K Elizabeth]

Hey guys,

It is, of course, not my intention to make you guys feel lied to - and I know that by not having any concrete answers either positive or negative, you are extremely frustrated - and I'm working on getting them, but I need to make sure I have my facts straight and that I have accurate information on the most important questions - or else my update won't be very helpful.

Thanks.

[Ubuntu Solo]

Hey guys,

It is, of course, not my intention to make you guys feel lied to - and I know that by not having any concrete answers either positive or negative, you are extremely frustrated - and I'm working on getting them, but I need to make sure I have my facts straight and that I have accurate information on the most important questions - or else my update won't be very helpful.

Thanks.



Could you at least explain why it is taking so long to even get answers? I mean, a progress report isn't out of the question after all this time. You haven't even provided an update in over 2 months? What have you guys been working on?

[Zuzax]

Hey guys,

It is, of course, not my intention to make you guys feel lied to - and I know that by not having any concrete answers either positive or negative, you are extremely frustrated - and I'm working on getting them, but I need to make sure I have my facts straight and that I have accurate information on the most important questions - or else my update won't be very helpful.

Thanks.

You've been working on getting them for months now, and you're still not any further along. Do you even have any access to the people in your organization who have accurate information? Do you even know who they are? If so, are you allowed to ask them questions (voice or email), or do you only receive information when they choose to give it to you?

Why won't you share a list of the known issues in the game? Is it because you are not allowed to have that information either? That would explain a lot - you're not evasive, you're merely uninformed.

[FireyFate]

Hey guys,

It is, of course, not my intention to make you guys feel lied to - and I know that by not having any concrete answers either positive or negative, you are extremely frustrated - and I'm working on getting them, but I need to make sure I have my facts straight and that I have accurate information on the most important questions - or else my update won't be very helpful.

Thanks.



I really can't understand how you need to "get your facts straight" to what is essentially a yes or no question. They are either working on this project still, or they aren't.

It seems that they aren't.

[angrybeavers]

Well, Elizabeth responded to my PM and said they will not refund me, so it's time for me to contact other people about it I guess.

With no patch in site, constant stonewalling, and a complete disregard for customer service, I can officially state that 2K gets the gold for poor service. Clap.

Elizabeth, I doubt a patch will ever come. I doubt anything is even being worked on.

[FireyFate]

Well, Elizabeth responded to my PM and said they will not refund me, so it's time for me to contact other people about it I guess.

I agree with your sentiment, but you are hilarious if you think you are going to get a refund. Are you going to hire a lawyer over a game that sells for 50 bucks?

[mwinter77]

Hey guys,

It is, of course, not my intention to make you guys feel lied to - and I know that by not having any concrete answers either positive or negative, you are extremely frustrated - and I'm working on getting them, but I need to make sure I have my facts straight and that I have accurate information on the most important questions - or else my update won't be very helpful.

Thanks.



Well no update sure is helpful!

After nearly eight months even you must be laughing as you type this BS.

There are really only two possibilities here:

1) This is being taken seriously and being diligently worked on...

or...

2) It isn't!

I wonder which one it really is - any votes ;-P

If it was the first then there is no way this would have gotten to this point. The very act of caring at all would have prevented what has already occurred.

If anyone anywhere in any supervisory or upper management role cared in the slightest I can guarantee this would not have been allowed to be handled this way.

Really just imagine if you didn't produce anything (even information) for months and alienated all of your most die hard fans - would you still have a job? I think not -unless you were actually doing WHAT THEY EXPECTED AND WANTED.

All the non-action, non-information and side stepping (along with apparently no loss of job) clearly proves point number two represents the corporate position on this - case closed!

[radios]

the removal of the techs posting here, and no patches for 8 months makes me think they are on the verge of bankruptcy, and can't afford to do these things anymore!. this could be it!. it certainly seems like a money problem.

[Bond697]

have you done any reading lately? taketwo and its underlings are doing extremely well. no reason to listen to any of us, they're not hurting and don't care.

this thread is another lie to keep everyone complacent until the final complainers stop posting. notice how this wasn't even made until the last thread started to fill up(again) with people complaining. it unsurprisingly got locked for something more "orderly" or whatever and now there's a new thread with still more vague answers. there are no more "facts to get straight", it's just stalling now. they supposedly have a list of pretty much all issues up until now but somehow can't provide it. wonder why? plenty more vague promises, though.

still waiting on that proof of you guys caring, by the way. i know it was a while ago that you said i was completely wrong and that it hurt or whatever when i said no one cared, but all you do is prove me right.

[angrybeavers]

I agree with your sentiment, but you are hilarious if you think you are going to get a refund. Are you going to hire a lawyer over a game that sells for 50 bucks?

No need for a lawyer, oh ye of little faith.

[NickM]

Don't hold your breath Zuzax. She won't answer, she just says "oh all the stuff you guys have said is known".

Also she says "just be patient I have no news we are still working on it."

I believe we are being lied to. There is no work being done, no patch, no fix, no pc release for dlc.

If that's incorrect, 2K, then prove me wrong. Today. Explain the delays on the patch. Explain what's being fixed. Explain why it's 8 months after relase and you haven't fixed things you swore and promised would be fixed immediately.

You can't, I wager. Just obfuscate, duck, avoid, and insult your customers.

Hope you think it's a good idea to lose customers, because you have done so just wonderfully, by treating us like dung.

Let's go one step further: give me proof of a patch forthcoming, as well as a time estimate, by the end of this week, or return my money. You have had enough chances and you have abused my faith every time.

You have my email, Elizabeth. Let's talk refund. I know you won't be able to provide real answers. The game does not work as advertised and even things your company claimed to fix are broken. You and me, let's talk refund now.

I think that pretty much sums it up.

[nevaeh]

I'd like a refund also. I have yet to even play the game because of the glitches. You have my email, or you can just PM me and we'll talk about giving me my money back.

[Invader]

I'd like a refund also. I have yet to even play the game because of the glitches. You have my email, or you can just PM me and we'll talk about giving me my money back.

You'll get the same answer the other guy got, FYI. Don't mean to sound like a jerk, but it's the truth.

[Kleetus]

I'd like a refund also. I have yet to even play the game because of the glitches. You have my email, or you can just PM me and we'll talk about giving me my money back.

2K Games isn't a retailer, they don't do refunds to consumers.

You need to work it out with whoever you purchased the game from.

The retailer is the one who is liable, not the publisher or developer.

[angrybeavers]

Actually, after a long phone call to 2K Marin's office this afternoon, I was offered something. Not a refund, but they did offer to send me some other game. Unfortunately, that just didn't seem right to me. Plus, nothing in 2K's catalog today interests me. And of course I can't expect any other 2K game to be in better shape than BS2, I've already heard about issues with Mafia 2, for example.

Now for anyone else thinking of asking for a refund, keep this in mind: I have played the game only through the first half hour approximately, not over and over through it. The game is so riddled with issues and missing features as to be unplayable for me. The tech support team did work with me, albeit at a frozen snail's pace, and some of the stupider issues were fixed via ini hacking because the gui is busted. The bink issues are "fixed" with the patch from "silent hill" or whatever it is, but this unfortunately causes other graphic problems, so it's damned if you do and damned if you don't.

But I have played only a bit of the game, and set it aside to wait for the never-appearing patch. And, most importantly, I offered to return my copy of the game to them, paying postage myself, for a refund. It's only fair - I give up the game, they give up the money paid for it.

Now, about the call I had today:
The woman I spoke with did not give me her name, but it wasn't Elizabeth, I asked.

There seemed to be a sense of communication disconnection. She claimed that the team was indeed working on a patch, and she seemed surprised that the community has become frustrated. She agreed with me that the customers need to have some information other than just cooling our heels waiting.

Whether or not that ends up actually coming true or not is of course yet to be seen.

Remember, internet forums and emails are easier for customers to ignore than talking to a real person.

[KeeperOfTheBeer]

First post and my two cents:

I'd like a playlist patch for the maps I spent $10 on and have not yet been able to play. That, or a refund of $10. Not that the money actually means much to me... I'm a person who stands by principles.

If you do not end up creating a patch... fair enough. But I hope you're ready for the backlash to ensue from the deception of your "product". Forever, I will wholeheartedly denounce 2K and its products and spread the word of how awful your company is unless the patch is released or refunds are provided. I think from my tone it's given that I won't spend a penny on your company or anyone affiliated with 2K.

Can you even understand the ire coming from a first time poster? A basic business concept is that for every dissatisfied customer who speaks up, there are 10 more dissatisfied customers. You see the select few posting who are enraged (to say the least) by your company's double-talk and promises yet to be fulfilled. I've been a long-time 2K fan and I've been following the updates since June regarding the patch, and it's taken me 3.5 months to finally post due to your company's actions and unbelievably inept public relations abilities. Do you realize the number of people feeling the same way I do who haven't posted anything? I encourage any first time posters to register and let 2K know how terrible of a job they are doing.

The funny thing is, this can quickly be remedied. As I've stated twice now, release the patch or refund purchasers of the map pack. If not, I sincerely hope your company fails.

[63jax]

loool, i still have Bioshock 2 installed and i still didn't played, HELL i even upgraded my video card and cpu just for this game to work fine. but nothing, is full of bugs, so i am still young(29), and i can still wait, maybe my children will get to play it in good conditions, who knows...:p

[SpottedPattern]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ................... I've been away for ages and nothings changed <shakes head in sheer disbelief> .......... though not unexpected I was guessing that 2K might actually fix things given enough time, but you've upheld my low opinion of you guys, bravo 2k take a bow and a round of applause, even have some cake.


Now the thing is that 2K Marin are busy with XCOM so at best you've got a handful of junior programmers working on patches and fixes, not the actual development team behind the game itself, so there's your problem.

If you really want to make an impact and get a response, do what was done with Spore, login in Amazon.com create an account if necessary and leave a bad review of Bioshock 2 plus any other 2k Marin or 2k game you wish to direct you're ire at, a bunch of people whining on here is nothing, it's contained, go onto Amazon and whine and millions of people see it, go, go on have fun !

I expect this post to be censored or deleted, wouldn't surprise me in the slightest, so I'll just copy paste it to my desktop ready for reposting as necessary ........... that'll prolly get me banned, no surprise there either.

PS <> SP

[FireyFate]

If you really want to make an impact and get a response, do what was done with Spore, login in Amazon.com create an account if necessary and leave a bad review of Bioshock 2

Already done. I suggest everyone else does the same.

[63jax]

good idea, already on it!

[Zuzax]

Already done. I suggest everyone else does the same.Leave a caveat in each 2K product's discussion forums on Amazon regarding 2K's poor support and indifferent community management (as demonstrated with Bioshock 2) on each of their products such as Mafia 2, or Bioshock Infinite. Link back to this post and all the closed posts as well.

[Ubuntu Solo]

I'd like to point out that Gearbox, developers of Borderlands which was published by 2k, recently released some DLC that had glitched achievements. In two days (released on Tuesday, 9/28), they posted a message acknowledging the problem (post released 9/30).

In that acknowledgement, not only did they offer an interim solution on how to unlock the glitched achievements, they immediately told their customers when a fix would be released via patch.

I know a patch for a playlist is a little more advanced than fixing glitched achievements, but if they can do that in two weeks, why does it take over 4 months to make a simple playlist?

For the record, this new DLC was not developed in house at Gearbox, but farmed out to another company much the same way Bioshock 2's multiplayer was. Yet Gearbox, the developer of the game and the company to which the customer complain, is fixing the issue.

Where is our fix? Or at least, where is our assurance that someone is looking into finding answers to our questions to sate us for the weekend?

[angrybeavers]

No assurances yet, will not be surprised if we were lied to again. Otherwise the person I spoke to yesterday who said that the team would be told to communicate with us instead of blowing us off would have had results.

For those wishing to complain, why not call 2K Marin at (415) 479-3634 ?

And yes, perhaps I should go to Amazon now. Spore treatment time!

[Kleetus]

Indie developer Frictional Games recently released Amnesia: The Dark Descent.

The game doesn't work correctly with X1900 cards (6 years old!).

So one of them ordered one from his own money, and is testing it to find a fix.

Compare that sort of service from a tiny company on the verge of bankruptcy, to this debacle?

This thread is designed to stall and shut everyone up.

2K has had more than enough time to know what the issues are, and to fix them.

[gbrading]

Hey 2K, want to get some good PR? If you do eventually, one day, release Minerva's Den for PC, how about giving it away for free? Call it a peace offering.

No? Oh well, just a thought. :(

[FireyFate]

Hey 2K, want to get some good PR? If you do eventually, one day, release Minerva's Den for PC, how about giving it away for free? Call it a peace offering.

No? Oh well, just a thought. :(

I'll gladly give them 10 dollars for it. The only stipulation is that it will be in nickels, and they have to put them in the "piggy bank" I designate.

[angrybeavers]

Well wouldja look at that. Lots of negatives on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Bioshock-2-Pc/product-reviews/B0016BVYAM/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_1?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&filterBy=addOneStar

[wilk0r]

Wow, look at that Amazon average plummet! I love it when the internet pushes back :)

[/me runs off to get his 200 Steam mates involved in the burn...]

Oh yeah, OT: Any word on PC patches..? DLC..? Staff..?

...no?

[Kleetus]

It's really not going to make much difference, although every bit helps.

Publishers make most of their money in the first month or so of a games release.

Anything after that is pocket-change in comparison.

The best way to get your message across is to ring 2K.

[Drez]

I'll go ahead and give this the benefit of the doubt and re-state the one thing I've been complaining about since day 1-ish: The HUD stretching in 16:10 on the PC (which also occurs in 5:4).

I would be super-happy if this and vending machines were fixed. And if the PC gets the DLC.

All three of these, mind you, were advertised for the PC. The PC version of the game was explicitly advertised as having "no differences" in HUDs, menus, et cetera no matter what resolution the player was playing at (this is in the article posted on Cult of Rapture at the end of January, over a week before the game released). As has been pointed out by others, "no differences" is a technical mathematical impossibility, but I think any reasonable assessment of "no differences" would preclude very obvious stretching that you, yourself, Elizabeth agreed exists.

Second, it was stated multiple times by you, Elizabeth, both here on the forums and on the Cult of Rapture site (and in patch notes) that vending machine sounds would be fixed in a future update.

Third, the Minerva's Den DLC, at least at one point, was advertised as coming soon for the PC. I know that doesn't obligate 2k Games to release it for the PC, and I can only assume the decision to drop the PC version was economical in nature, but it would still be nice if the various DLCs came to the PC.

I still feel like I wasted my money. I'm sorry, I don't want to complain, but BioShock 2 has been sitting in my Steam's installed games list since the beginning of February. Time played? 2 hours. And all of that time was spent trying to get the game to look proper in a 16:10 or even 16:9 resolution (16:9 does some funky stuff too here, overriding my graphics card's aspect scaling option).

[A_Man_Chooses]

Wow, look at that Amazon average plummet! I love it when the internet pushes back :)

[/me runs off to get his 200 Steam mates involved in the burn...]

Oh yeah, OT: Any word on PC patches..? DLC..? Staff..?

...no?

Making the virtual stars go down isn't going to make a difference.

I agree with the fact that it 2K isn't dealing with this whole situation good at all. I just think that there are more productive ways to go about this. Take the issue right to 2K, and I don't mean here on the forums. Sure it is a little harder to do this, but I think it would actually make a real statement. Rather than making the rating go down on Amazon, that 2K will probably never see.

[Ubuntu Solo]

Elizabeth,

Since this is what you read, and I know the probable answer to this but will ask anyway, can you post any proof of you actually asking the developers for a status report of the posted issues? (Requires yes or no answer.)

You say you understand our extreme frustration (which only speaking for myself, I am beyond frustrated at this point) yet you still are unable to do anything about it.

You keep asking us to be patient while you supposedly seek answers to our problems, but what exactly are you giving us to deserve our patience?

Can you speak directly to the claims made by the woman over the phone to angrybeavers? Why is she able to reveal that a patch is being worked on but all you can say is you are working on finding answers? We have asked a very simple question of if the patch is being worked on, why is the answer a big secret?

If you are busy "working on getting answers" for Mafia 2 or Civ 5, could you please task someone else with this?

[FireyFate]

If you are busy "working on getting answers" for Mafia 2 or Civ 5, could you please task someone else with this?

I have the feeling "getting answers" is something akin to checking facebook and eating a sandwich.

[63jax]

how hard can it be to get there and ask the nerds if they have something for us, that's all. stop saying us that you are working on getting the answers, there's nothing to work, just ask. I AM WORKING, WOW...

[choco]

Finally played this to completion after waiting 8 months. Its actually a worthy sequel apart from all of the bugs and problems. Shame it's been hung out to dry. But my god, the Halo Reach community management throws a very harsh light on this debacle.

To be honest, stop even reading this Liz. Your updates waste our time and bring false hope. 8 months to fix the music sticking when you defeat the Big Sister on Pauper's Drop. 8 months on a simple, basic bug.

[wilk0r]

Making the virtual stars go down isn't going to make a difference.

I agree with the fact that it 2K isn't dealing with this whole situation good at all. I just think that there are more productive ways to go about this. Take the issue right to 2K, and I don't mean here on the forums. Sure it is a little harder to do this, but I think it would actually make a real statement. Rather than making the rating go down on Amazon, that 2K will probably never see.

I agree to the extent that the launch profits have been made, the title made it across the finish line in the financial sense. It should be clear that this is really a top-shelf title of the highest calibre, and should stand the test of time in terms of critical reception. This will be made difficult by the fact it is mired in neglect, arguably as a result of its 'flash-in-the-pan' marketing.


"BioShock 2 is profitable for the company and is a great success. The franchise is viable and has a lasting impact on consumers," [Ben] Feder said. Although critical reception for the highly-anticipated sequel to the 2007 smash-hit was high and initial sales were strong, BioShock 2 quickly slipped off charts faster than expected. Shacknews, Jun 28. (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/64517)

In terms of the 'productivity' of generating negative reviews; it takes a minute or two to write a succinct blurb detailing just how badly 2K is dealing with continued product support (across a range of titles). One, if so inclined, could simply ctrl-c/v one of the many already present at no cost of time or money at all. As a gamer I check these sort of reviews to find out whether or not I'm going to get covertly stung by such things as DRM (a pox on the sadist who dreamt up GFWL), microtransactions, or a hundred other tiny clauses that are becoming more and more common in my PC games. A blurb for BS2 that simply said "Don't expect PC updates or DLC, they don't care!" would send me searching right to this forum, to this thread (and several others), and reading these posts.

At the moment it really seems like 2K is throwing stones at a massive beehive of internet users, oblivious to the damage those little bees can do collectively...

[angrybeavers]

Since Elizabeth is still talking ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺ about not giving a refund, and everything about them working on a patch is ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺, I guess it's time for me to accept that 2K is ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺ and just have them send me some other ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺ game.

Anything they have out now NOT suck total dog balls? Don't want Mafia or Civ, and a generous friend gifted me a Steam copy of Borderlands (hey 2K Marin, Gearbox knows how to fix and support their customers, you could learn from them).

I like saying ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺. ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺, ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺, ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺. capital B with an Ull and ☺☺☺☺, ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺.

[SpottedPattern]

Another option ........... contact the online press, IGN, Gametrailers, Kotaku, etc.

[Erorrless]

also-
PS3
Fontaine Futuristics- when you gather from the corpse between alex's tank and the GG the enemies that are supposed to come out the hole in the wall above the circus of values machine dont. they just stay there and wait to be killed with the launcher.

[zealous010]

Have any of you heard of this thing called the Better Business Bureau? It is a fascinating thing, they keep track of and rate companies and their customer service that do business in the US and other places.

I'll tell you right now hat 2k is not accredited, which is fine, though for such a company they really should be. However the Bureau still monitors and rates even unaccredited businesses. 2k on a letter scale of +A to F has a (drum roll).....

F

This of course is based on only reported incidents, though if one were to apply the number of cases to the gaming population they would find it staggering. Out of all the complaints filed against them only 19.05% were resolved. It should be mentioned that it isn't said if they are resolved in a positive and or productive way.

I've seen worse businesses at least scrape a C.

I cannot tell if Elizabeth is just a figure head meant to keep us entertained with empty words or just really having trouble giving us information pertaining to future updates and patches due to company policy . I however do agree with others on here that she at least give us some yes or no answers so that we may know if we are wasting our time on these forums and buying 2k products.

BTW by visiting BBB.org and searching up 2k (2k Games, or whatever name they use) or any business really, you can find addresses and phone numbers and sometimes even a few names of interest.

[Zuzax]

I cannot tell if Elizabeth is just a figure head meant to keep us entertained with empty words or just really having trouble giving us information pertaining to future updates and patches due to company policy.I believe that Elizabeth is just as helpless as the rest of us when it comes to getting meaningful information out of 2K. I'm thinking she's kept in the dark most of the time, with her 2K overlords sending her trickles of the information they want released, and that's it. They don't care about how she and her community management cohorts get verbally savaged for 2K's sins on BS2 - that's old news - Civ 5 is where it's at now. They figure it's the CM's job to eat the bees, not the managers and developers.

Still, in this economy even a job of getting the virtual crap kicked out of you every day by a (rightfully) angry mob is better than unemployment.

However, I'm surprised some sharp accountant at 2K hasn't proposed getting rid of community management altogether to raise profit 0.002% and apply that to management bonuses. Why fund an overhead group that only makes your community frustrated and angry?

Probably why there's no advocacy coming out of the 2K Community Management for the players - why work to eliminate your own job? The nail that stands proud gets pounded down.

[zealous010]

Some part of me does feel bad for her. It seems that she has to really take a lot of abuse on here, more then a human being should on a daily basis anyway.

But like you said it better to have a mob chasing you and get paid for it then have no job at all.


I found a Problem.

I play on the xbox and haven't had too much trouble, not counting the Sister music loop in paupers. though recently after looking for information to get in the same room as Sinclair to get the key in Persephone I got enough info to get into the Tower but kept looking around for more info and such. The screen text was on and sinclair was suppose to be talking and I heard nothing and then his radio image stayed up, I couldn't play audio diaries or radio messages, I couldn't receive new messages or hear anything over the radio. I ended up having to restart my xbox and had to restart the level over since working off the save continued the problem of Sinclair's images staying on the screen and all that silent jazz.

[Ubuntu Solo]

I think we have all been more than reasonable with our demands for answers. She hasn't taken much abuse at all that I have seen.

Any updates Elizabeth? Any word from the busy developers? Any chance on getting some answers to my previously posted questions and those from others?

How was your weekend? Could you at least answer that?

[FireyFate]

How was your weekend? Could you at least answer that?

She is going to push really hard to get an official statement on her weekend...

Until then we can not be sure that her weekend existed what-so-ever. It might have been a purgatory sort of thing, like all other information here.

[Moldy Clay]

I think we have all been more than reasonable with our demands for answers.

This.

Thing is, we all started out being like "aw man, this sucks".

And most of us are still like "hey, what's up? Why no patch?" and just asking normally.

But all the people being more agitated, irritated and whatever are still totally justified. They are asking her simple questions and getting ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺ in return. If you're going to treat the community like they are retarded, then expect to be treated just as bad by the community.

If you're straight about it, tell everyone what's up. Good or bad news, then everyone will be like "alright. Well that sucks. 2K's a bunch of jerks" and Liz will be less of the center of attention for the rage.

But since she specifically disappears when people are voicing their opinions and questions regarding a very huge problem, or she gives BS answers, I can't feel completely bad for her. She puts herself in that position on purpose, even if she IS in the dark.

EDIT: Was cursing always edited with smiley faces?

[angrybeavers]

I think it's hilarious that Elizabeth stopped answering, the woman I spoke to at 2k obviously lied, and 2k is still doing nothing to fix the game. This essentially makes them lying sacks of crap. Well, since Liz isn't refunding, it's time to call 2k Marin back and get recompense.

[63jax]

they really don't realize that continuing this way it will affect the company's future. of course they say now, that there are only a few complains and we should not care about them, the game was good, their rigs were broken, they didn't knew how to play the game, bla, bla, bla...this is just one of the nails on your coffin. treating people like that is not fair, i didn't hear anyone complaining about our money, there wasn't any bugs on them...

[NickM]

EDIT: Was cursing always edited with smiley faces?

Except for "wanker"

Nick

[Ubuntu Solo]

How is that search for answers coming? You haven't been around in a few days to re-assure us that you are working on getting answers. Are you okay?

[angrybeavers]

Perhaps she's just sooooo hard at work getting updates from those soooooo busy programmers.


Gigantic steaming load of horse feces. Stinking lies rotting like a dead walrus.

[Velecost]

I'm not sure what to say other than when are we getting the dlc playlist and patch? I'm not desensitized to this sort of treatment and I refuse to be.

When will I be able to play the dlc I bought?... This is a bit silly..

[angrybeavers]

Give us answers NOW.

[FireyFate]

I'm not desensitized to this sort of treatment and I refuse to be.

Exactly. It's a little thing in the grand scheme of the world, but it's still a slap in the face and a load of horse manure.

[63jax]

I Am Working On Getting Them!!! Be Patient For The Next 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000 Years, Ok? Jessus...

[2K Elizabeth]

Elizabeth,

Since this is what you read, and I know the probable answer to this but will ask anyway, can you post any proof of you actually asking the developers for a status report of the posted issues? (Requires yes or no answer.)

You say you understand our extreme frustration (which only speaking for myself, I am beyond frustrated at this point) yet you still are unable to do anything about it.

You keep asking us to be patient while you supposedly seek answers to our problems, but what exactly are you giving us to deserve our patience?

Can you speak directly to the claims made by the woman over the phone to angrybeavers? Why is she able to reveal that a patch is being worked on but all you can say is you are working on finding answers? We have asked a very simple question of if the patch is being worked on, why is the answer a big secret?

If you are busy "working on getting answers" for Mafia 2 or Civ 5, could you please task someone else with this?

Hey there,

Sorry I didn't see this post until now - again, if you ever have direct questions, please PM or email me because I definitely see those - however I can't give you guys internal communications, but I'm talking to the dev because the Producer sits across from me and the team is down the hall. As for the call referenced, it took me a while to figure out what this was - it appears that the person in question called the front desk (where that number leads) and didn't want to be transferred so he ended up talking to our front desk person. If you guys do call in, please do get transferred to the proper department. Essentially what the person on the call said was that I had the details, and unfortunately not much more. She doesn't get the same updates I do as that's not her department!

Thanks.

[Ubuntu Solo]

Hey there,

Sorry I didn't see this post until now - again, if you ever have direct questions, please PM or email me because I definitely see those - however I can't give you guys internal communications, but I'm talking to the dev because the Producer sits across from me and the team is down the hall. As for the call referenced, it took me a while to figure out what this was - it appears that the person in question called the front desk (where that number leads) and didn't want to be transferred so he ended up talking to our front desk person. If you guys do call in, please do get transferred to the proper department. Essentially what the person on the call said was that I had the details, and unfortunately not much more. She doesn't get the same updates I do as that's not her department!

Thanks.

If this is what you read, why do we have to PM you direct questions?

Well, you answered a couple of questions - so you ARE capable of providing answers. That's progress, I guess.

Of course, as far as we can tell, the woman at the front desk does get the same updates as you do because you don't seem to get any either.

Why is it possible to get details on that call in only a couple days yet the answers to the playlist patch (or any patch for that matter) are akin to a Lost plot?

You say you are talking to the producer who sits across from you, which is fine if you are actually talking about Bioshock updates. I somehow can only imagine you are discussing your latest tweets or where you are going for dinner each night. How many Facebook friends do you each have? Clearly you aren't talking about Bioshock because this wouldn't have dragged on for this long if you were.

You still haven't been able to articulate why this process of finding out information is taking so long. If 2k isn't actually going to do anything about these problems, just let us know so we can leave you to supposedly busy job.

And since you have ignored this question in both posts and PMs, I will continue to ask it: Can you get the producer who sits across from you to come onto these forums and give us some straight answers?

[2K Elizabeth]

Ubuntu -

If you want to ask me serious questions, and be respectful, that would help. As it is, this thread isn't at all adhering to forum rules and although the situation is frustrating, disrespect and insults are still not okay.

I can get information about a call because I was surprised about the information posted, as it wasn't correct, and so I walked up front and inquired. Questions about any potential patches need to be verified by people creating content and working in QA (etc.) and is much more complicated than asking a person "did a customer call you and what did you say to them?"

Let's stick to the topic - which is outstanding issues. If anyone has any questions, please let me know and if you need it answered quickly, please PM or email me and I'll try to get you what you need.

[FireyFate]

disregard 10char.

[FireyFate]

If anyone has any questions, please let me know and if you need it answered quickly, please PM or email me and I'll try to get you what you need.

Is Minerva's Den coming to PC, and what is the time frame? Is the Protector Trials coming to PC, and what is the time frame?

Is the LONG STANDING matchmaking issue going to be corrected, and what is the time frame?

I don't know how to be any more clear.

[nbajammer]

If you want to ask me serious questions, and be respectful, that would help. As it is, this thread isn't at all adhering to forum rules and although the situation is frustrating, disrespect and insults are still not okay.

I can get information about a call because I was surprised about the information posted, as it wasn't correct, and so I walked up front and inquired. Questions about any potential patches need to be verified by people creating content and working in QA (etc.) and is much more complicated than asking a person "did a customer call you and what did you say to them?"

Let's stick to the topic - which is outstanding issues. If anyone has any questions, please let me know and if you need it answered quickly, please PM or email me and I'll try to get you what you need.

Waiting for 8 months for an update for one fix, and 5 months for a playlist to fix an oversight on the problem of the developers is also not okay - but by your standards, we should stop asking what the big deal is because it's against forum rules and disrespectful? We PAID 2K $60 for the game, and $10 for the Rapture Metro DLC in question here. When will the developers give us the support we PAID FOR?

Honestly, I'm trying very hard to be respectful here - but this has seriously gone on for far too long, and for much longer than it really needed to. 2K sold, effectively, 2 broken products (see other posts in this thread and the 2 merged threads for more specifics). The problems were reported by the users who, through effective use of silence, were basically told to "open the door and take it to the floor".

Waiting all this time and ignoring the fans and customers who paid for these products is disrespectful, dishonest, and insulting as well. But you're going to say it's ok for 2K to blow us all off yet you expect us to wait forever to get answers? And then ignore us for days on end because people are still asking for answers? That is also unacceptable!

I realize that you're just the messenger Liz, but you have to understand how ridiculous this is and how "waiting for answers" is no longer an acceptable response to so many people. If I worked in game development, my customers would take top priority over any DLC and other titles in development. The fact that it's been this much time should be an indication that these fixes need to be top priority for the developers. Yet we hear nothing, not even a "not going to happen", as unacceptable as that is. But that at least would give us a sign not to keep waiting around.

So let me close this post with a question - when will the developers make fixing the game and the DLC their top priority after making us wait months on end?

[radios]

I think it's hilarious that Elizabeth stopped answering, the woman I spoke to at 2k obviously lied, and 2k is still doing nothing to fix the game. This essentially makes them lying sacks of crap. Well, since Liz isn't refunding, it's time to call 2k Marin back and get recompense. actually, take two interactive is the parent company of 2k games, maybe better luck can be had by contacting them?. seriously, if you check the forums, the techs are STILL supporting the other games, but not this one!. somethings up!.

[jbailey8]

Hey 2K Elizabeth,

This is just my own opinion, but I don't think anyone here is trying to be
intentionally disrespectful or offensive, We're just really frustrated about the
support issues surrounding this game (myself included), I don't post often, but it really seems to me that the following questions are being avoided:


1. When is the big patch coming out, and what's it supposed to fix?
(a 'by a certain date' and a list of specific fixes to the posted problems)

2. The dlc stuff, when is it supposed to be released for the pc? and if the
dlcs' are buggy, when could we expect a fix or fixes?

Unless I've missed something somewhere, it really does seem that these
questions are avoided, (or at least real information being released in
regards to these questions).

I bought Bioshock 2 months ago, and I've intentionally only played a couple
of hours on it waiting for the big patch to be released. I'll admit looking at
the big picture, this is only a game, if it doesn't get fixed, well, there's
other games to play, other things to do, it won't bring about the end of the
world if the fixes never come. But it's the principle of the situation, myself
and a lot of other people have paid for this game (up to $60.00 I believe),
but there's seemingly little or no support for this game, and it's been almost
8-9 months, something is holding this stuff up, what is it? If 2K is not
ever going to patch this game again, or release the dlc stuff for the pc,
tell us, speaking for myself, I'll uninstall the game and move on, there's
no point in hanging around in a forum waiting for support that might not
ever come. I understand your just the messenger, and I'm not really
frustrated at you, if someone else where doing this here, I'd still type this
post, it's not you personally, it's the support situation in general. The game
needs fixing, it's been months, there's very little if any real information
available, please, either tell us the game will get fixed, or tell us it's not
going to get fixed so we can decide to either keep waiting or move on.

Thanks for your attention.

:)

[wilk0r]

So...

Forums remain unread.
PM's remain unread.
Tickets remain unread.
Calls are ignored.

You fail, Liz. You are being paid entirely too much for your unmitigated failure. I don't even remotely care about your feelings anymore, the abuse you recieve across this vast forum is entirely justified and you should probably listen to a large percentage of it. Please GTFO of intelligent discussions on these forums (you may want to consult a definition of this word 'forum'), because for some time you've not been moderating users v. users - you've been moderating peoples dissatisfaction with your lack of substance.

This is, for lack of a better word, stupid.

If you're actually going to answer a question (which have been repeated ad nauseum for months) you might want to pull one out soon, although anatomically I don't think you're built for an evacuation of that magnitude.

You made this thread, Liz. Deal with it.

[B17gunner98th]

As a PC player I DO want to say I don't think it's Liz's fault at all. She may not be allowed to answer because she might get in trouble and what not. I'm just saying while I worked at a lot of places people would be angry at ME when it was the stores fault for not having an item in. I'm just saying don't attack the messenger, it is could be the top dogs just laughing at us and not the workers of 2K. I have been following all of the threads for a good while and been on the forums for a while (I'm a lurker). I am not going to say the patch will come because it seems at the moment it isn't going to come at all. I am just saying that the rage is being directed at someone it shouldn't be. I want the content out and patches just as much as you guys and I am angry as everyone else, but the people collecting our money are laughing at us taking the troll bait. That's my input.

[HotRabbit]

As a PC player I DO want to say I don't think it's Liz's fault at all. She may not be allowed to answer because she might get in trouble and what not. I'm just saying while I worked at a lot of places people would be angry at ME when it was the stores fault for not having an item in. I'm just saying don't attack the messenger, it is could be the top dogs just laughing at us and not the workers of 2K. I have been following all of the threads for a good while and been on the forums for a while (I'm a lurker). I am not going to say the patch will come because it seems at the moment it isn't going to come at all. I am just saying that the rage is being directed at someone it shouldn't be. I want the content out and patches just as much as you guys and I am angry as everyone else, but the people collecting our money are laughing at us taking the troll bait. That's my input.

Agree. It's a sad fact that so many are frustrated and this whole sorry state is laughable. Rant and rave all you like but there's no need for personal insults, they're not going to make anyone's life easier.

[EricHalfBee]

If you want to ask me serious questions, and be respectful, that would help. As it is, this thread isn't at all adhering to forum rules and although the situation is frustrating, disrespect and insults are still not okay.

Quite right. It's a frustrating situation but there's no need for unpleasantness. Actually, I've seen very little rudeness and that's refreshing for any forum and welcome.



Let's stick to the topic - which is outstanding issues. If anyone has any questions, please let me know and if you need it answered quickly, please PM or email me and I'll try to get you what you need.

Indeed, let's stick to that. So Elizabeth could you please post a list of outstanding issues, perhaps stating which platform each affects? That will save a lot of duplication. An update on which are being currently worked on at the present would also be appreciated, what the adjudged severity of each issue is and a rough timescale for current implementation; nothing more accurate than which quarter is required. Basically, a copy of the burn down list that the devs/supoorters are working to, cross-referenced with the problem tickets. I Believe just those bits of information would remove most of the heat from this thread.

Oh and apologies if this exists elsewhere, I just couldn't find it. I chose not to PM/email you as I think this is information that the whole forum is interested in.

Cheers
EricHalfBee

[angrybeavers]

Hey there,

Sorry I didn't see this post until now - again, if you ever have direct questions, please PM or email me because I definitely see those - however I can't give you guys internal communications, but I'm talking to the dev because the Producer sits across from me and the team is down the hall. As for the call referenced, it took me a while to figure out what this was - it appears that the person in question called the front desk (where that number leads) and didn't want to be transferred so he ended up talking to our front desk person. If you guys do call in, please do get transferred to the proper department. Essentially what the person on the call said was that I had the details, and unfortunately not much more. She doesn't get the same updates I do as that's not her department!

Thanks.

Yeah, I didn't want to be dumped in your voicemail because in my eyes you haven't given a single satisfactory answer to a single customer question in all the time I've read this forum.

As for the un-named woman that the front desk Admin transferred me to, she claimed the devs were working "24 hours a day" and that she was would talk to you and your department about the complete disconnect in customer communication, which she agreed was unacceptable. Sounds like she was just feeding me a line to get me off the phone, since no real information has come out yet. That seems to be the 2K modus operandi.

I really wanted to believe she cared about keeping customers, and that she would have some effect in getting news instead of arse-smoke out to the customers, but I should have expected less. I will know from now on to expect less of all 2K.

I've played and completed ... let's see... BS1, all three Stalker games, Fallout 3 and all its DLCs, Zelda: Twilight Princess, World of Goo, Plants vs Zombies, and Puzzle Quest while waiting for 2K Marin to fix BS2.

The continued blah blah blah and no updates is just pathetic at this point.

Elizabeth, I'll PM you with the name of another 2K game you can send me. At least I know Gearbox has their head located nowhere near their alimentary canal.

[nytiger73]

I normally am an optimist, but regarding the Bioshock franchise (specifically Bioshock 2) I am an extreme pessimist. I honestly don't think that either Protector Trials or Minerva's Den are coming to PC, or if they are it'll be much later when Bioshock 2 is officially in the bargain bin (which it sort of already is). The game has been out for 8 months. I spent over $90 dollars on this game. I bought both the Collectors Edition of the game and the guide as well. We were told we would receive a steady stream of DLC. This is partially true, we did receive some MP stuff, but the strength of this franchise is in it's single player experience. We've been told for months that a major patch along with Protector Trials and Minerva's Den would be coming to PC and we haven't seen hide nor hair of any of it. I uninstalled the game the other day because I got tired of waiting for all of these things. I may re-install it if these things do come out, but I feel as if us PC players have been treated like 2nd class citizens. To be honest, I think the PC players deserve something for all the BS we've put up with. Perhaps both DLC's at a discount?

[SpottedPattern]

Screw it I've e-mailed a dozen or so online websites to see if anyone of them would be willing to expose 2K Marin's complete uselessness to the wider public :confused:

[angrybeavers]

Did you include Rock Paper Shotgun? They're good for that.

[SpottedPattern]

Yes, yes I did, so just gotta wait now and see which one runs a story first :D

Any other online mag's/publications anyone else can think of let me know and I'll forward the same message to them also, thanks.

[Moldy Clay]

Liz, I don't quite understand what's so unclear.

The main thing we all want to know is about that patch for Rapture Metro.

This is an outstanding issue. What is the progress on it?

You have to realize, the thing that is frustrating is not so much the problem with the DLC anymore, but the fact that you keep telling us to ask you questions but you are avoiding the biggest issue like the plague.

It's getting off topic because you know what our problems with this are. We were posting in a topic about it for half a year almost and you still haven't provided anything regarding it.

Are more patches coming to BioShock 2? Or not?
Are we getting the infamous "playlist patch? Or not?
Has ANY progress happened? Or are we supposed to honestly believe that you have NO new information on it from since before E3?

Very simple questions, and you not answering them is what is more frustrating than not being able to play maps.

[2K Elizabeth]

Hey guys,

I have an update on the status of patches for BioShock 2 and some answers to questions on features that have been outstanding for a while. We will not be adding vending machine sounds into any version of BioShock 2 and we will not be adding playlists for the multiplayer DLC maps – we did look in to both options but due to technical and timing issues, these two fixes are not feasible. We are planning patches for the 360 and PS3 to fix some functionality issues, but they will not drastically change gameplay (and I’ll post the patch notes when I get them – these two items are still in with QA.) We will also not be offering Protector Trials and Minerva’s Den on the PC in the future – and I want to say that I’m sorry for the disappointment this will cause to PC players out there. As always, if any of these issues change in the future, I will update you guys first, but at this point in time I don’t want to make you wait any longer and these are the most definite answers I have and you guys should deem them final decisions.

Please feel free to PM me or email with any questions – I’ll follow up in this thread as best as possible but if I miss your comment, I’m not ignoring you – I might just not have read the post – If this happens, again, just ping me and we can chat.

Thanks,

Elizabeth

[SpottedPattern]

Nice to see that in fact 2K Marin do NOT give a flying #@%k about their PC customers, only took what .......... 8 months to confirm something that was pretty much obvious from the DRM threads, bravo, I'm just glad it's another studio developing the next Bioshock, and I say XCOM should be given a wide berth by all PC users who've been given the shaft over Bioshcok 2 by this dev' studio.

I appreciate you're only the messenger Liz, but the message is still the same, PC users do not matter ..... well done, bravo, round of applause, have some cake.

Any other PC users want something to ease the shafting.

PS

[SpottedPattern]

Ok that's the niceities out of the way, so Liz why not ? why aren't 2K Marin giving the PC users the same support and expansions as console users I would like to know and I'm sure all the users and publications I pointed at this thread would also like to know.

Though suppose we'll have to wait another 8 months plus to get an answer to that.

[2K Elizabeth]

Ok that's the niceities out of the way, so Liz why not ? why aren't 2K Marin giving the PC users the same support and expansions as console users I would like to know and I'm sure all the users and publications I pointed at this thread would also like to know.

Though suppose we'll have to wait another 8 months plus to get an answer to that.

You don't have to wait 8 months for an answer - I summarized it pretty well (I thought) in that post. Timing and technical issues were the problem. And again, apologies for the delay - we did explore the options, which is why this took some time, but as I said before, I wanted to give you guys a full explanation when everything was finalized.

[skyking71]

I feel like a Schmuck for vesting so much emotion, time and money into this. Here’s a portion of my company’s take on our consumers that I’d like to share:
“Consumers are more sophisticated and educated than ever before… …The danger is equally clear: The day you take consumers for granted is the day they leave you.”
I’m sure I’ll get over it, but why lead us PC folks on for so long about the SP DLC?

[2K Elizabeth]

I feel like a Schmuck for vesting so much emotion, time and money into this. Here’s a portion of my company’s take on our consumers that I’d like to share:
“Consumers are more sophisticated and educated than ever before… …The danger is equally clear: The day you take consumers for granted is the day they leave you.”
I’m sure I’ll get over it, but why lead us PC folks on for so long about the SP DLC?

We weren't intending, or trying, to lead anyone on, but the decision had not yet been finalized.

[guthwulf_de]

Are you guys planning to offer a refund for the Rapture Metro pack then?
Because we normally should be able to actually play the DLC if we want to.

I still haven't seen any of the new maps and I don't really have the patience to try anymore at this point.

[angrybeavers]

Holy ☺☺☺☺ that was the laugh I needed today Liz, really!

To see you come out and finally admit that 2K's promise to fix vending sounds 8 months ago was a complete and total lie, that's hilarious!

And since you said 2K is patching 360 and PS3 but neglected to put PC in that list, we at last know that all those lies about the team working on a PC patch to fix the ☺☺☺☺ed up UI, bink errors, little sister audio/animation failures were just that.


Lies.

You, personally, lied to all of us for nearly half a year. Congratulations on the disingenuous false cordiality and sheen of deprecation you treated all of us for all this time.

I applaud you as being the perfect representative of a company as untrustworthy and disgraceful as 2K Marin.

You know how I'm mailing the game back to you so you can replace it with something else? Since 2k's not patching BS2, I think you need to think about how you're making that dump up to everyone else here.

[FireyFate]

Are you guys planning to offer a refund for the Rapture Metro pack then?
Because we normally should be able to actually play the DLC if we want to.

I still haven't seen any of the new maps and I don't really have the patience to try anymore at this point.

This. My final question to you is, what is 2k's official thought on this. You sold us a broken product... not broken for some, broken for everyone. EVERY ONE. How do you justify keeping our money?

[angrybeavers]

Because they're morally bankrupt and essentially a corrupt predatory snake-oil operation, is my guess...

BTW Liz, your line about the game "working" doesn't stand up since there's no MP playlist patch.

So apart from replacing your lemon game with another game for me, it's only fair you pay the postage for when I send you back your broken game.

Of course 2K hasn't treated their customers fairly from launch, so I don't expect anything more than a lie and a smirk from 2K customer service at this point.

[zealous010]

Totally called this. (not on the forums but with my friends)

Though to all those saying that we were lied to, from what I have read we technically weren't. All of 2ks language on here said "we are looking into" or "I'll have word on that later", a clever parlor trick to not promise us anything and yet keep us entertained long enough that in the slimmest chance that something was cobbled together they could say "see we got it done, it just took us longer then planned". It is all about the language and Liz was trained very well, she earned her biscuit from 2k ;) .

I wouldn't be so agitated that if during this whole thing Liz had told us that it wasn't looking good or to lower our expectations. By keeping us unaware our levels of hope remained semi-constant and when this news hit we were unprepared. Part of your job when dealing with your community is to prepare them for the worst case scenario, not keep us in the dark and surprise us with something like this. But, like I said, she followed her training very well.

All we can do is hope that these patches are instituted and fix the annoying problems such as the big sis music loop or whatever everyone else has problems with some time soon if during a normal humans lifetime.

In all honesty though I believe we finally found our Wumpus, that truth we always new existed but could never really find.

I will seriously be considering not buying a 2k product ever again. This was just a horrible lead around and I cannot trust that it will not happen again in the future.

I'll be contacting you later Liz, after I print out pictures of 2k staff members and adhere them to a dartboard.

[2K Elizabeth]

Totally called this. (not on the forums but with my friends)

Though to all those saying that we were lied to, from what I have read we technically weren't. All of 2ks language on here said "we are looking into" or "I'll have word on that later", a clever parlor trick to not promise us anything and yet keep us entertained long enough that in the slimmest chance that something was cobbled together they could say "see we got it done, it just took us longer then planned". It is all about the language and Liz was trained very well, she earned her biscuit from 2k ;) .

I wouldn't be so agitated that if during this whole thing Liz had told us that it wasn't looking good or to lower our expectations. By keeping us unaware our levels of hope remained semi-constant and when this news hit we were unprepared. Part of your job when dealing with your community is to prepare them for the worst case scenario, not keep us in the dark and surprise us with something like this. But, like I said, she followed her training very well.

All we can do is hope that these patches are instituted and fix the annoying problems such as the big sis music loop or whatever everyone else has problems with some time soon if during a normal humans lifetime.

In all honesty though I believe we finally found our Wumpus, that truth we always new existed but could never really find.

I will seriously be considering not buying a 2k product ever again. This was just a horrible lead around and I cannot trust that it will not happen again in the future.

I'll be contacting you later Liz, after I print out pictures of 2k staff members and adhere them to a dartboard.

I'm a bit saddened by the "biscuit" comment, but I understand your frustration. And yes, I know how to talk to people so I don't promise things I can't deliver, but the reason I didn't give you anything one way or another is because we were still exploring options and the decision hadn't been finalized yet. I'm not one to put people on a rollercoaster - when things became less certain, I let people know that I didn't have any info one way or another.

Again, in an ideal world, I could have given you guys an answer, definitively, to every question as soon as it was asked. I'm sorry for the delays, and I understand those of you who wanted this content and area sad that you can't play it - which is why I wanted to get you this news as soon as it was finalized.

Please try to be polite and respectful, though. Taking low blows at me, the dev team, or anyone else isn't going to help anything.

Thanks.

[angrybeavers]

I'm a bit saddened by the "biscuit" comment, but I understand your frustration. And yes, I know how to talk to people so I don't promise things I can't deliver, but the reason I didn't give you anything one way or another is because we were still exploring options and the decision hadn't been finalized yet. I'm not one to put people on a rollercoaster - when things became less certain, I let people know that I didn't have any info one way or another.

Again, in an ideal world, I could have given you guys an answer, definitively, to every question as soon as it was asked. I'm sorry for the delays, and I understand those of you who wanted this content and area sad that you can't play it - which is why I wanted to get you this news as soon as it was finalized.

Please try to be polite and respectful, though. Taking low blows at me, the dev team, or anyone else isn't going to help anything.

Thanks.

I'm confident you'll understand if we don't find much pity in your sadness at the biscuit comment.

As for polite and respectful, we did that for months and you led us on with empty promises. I'm unsure what bloated sense of self-importance 2K has that it expects it can treat its customers like this and still have us come up all Please Sir Oliver Twist polite.

As ye reap, so shall ye sow. 2K took a huge steaming dump on its PC customers, and you should really grow up and not expect us to be polite. Blows, high, and low, at the company, the devs, and your constant stream of doublespeak for the last half year are simply the fruits of how you treated the people who shelled out 60 bucks for a game you promised was gold and turned out to be beta.

[zealous010]

"Your genes have no objection to an empty smile, but anger to the gene is part of the program, I submit the following conclusion - the gene is the enemy."

Guess my smile faltered back there. :rolleyes:

Issues:

1. Big Sister Music Loop in Paupers Drop.

2. Audio Freeze in Persephone resulting in being unable to receive new Radio messages and listen to Older Radio Messages or Audio Diaries.

Those are mine so far. I stopped playing it so I don't mind if they get mended or not.

[Precarious]

I'm giving fair warning to this thread. It's fine to express distaste. It's fine to say how you're feeling. It is NOT OK to insult 2K staff or other forum members. If I see insults, degrading remarks or trolling, I will not let it slide.

I'm sure we can all keep it under control.

[zealous010]

I wonder if getting on the phone with Microsoft or Sony will do anything.

The Xbox360 and and Windows live belong to Microsoft and Playstation is owned by Sony. Well a broken/lacking product on their systems doesn't exactly make them look good. To THEIR consumers it appears that that do business with anyone no matter what condition the product is in when they sell.

And the DLC for the Xbox uses Xbox points( whatever they are called) which I'm pretty sure Microsoft sees a cut of, plus the DLCs are nonrefundable, so I wonder what they will think of a product sold through them that doesn't work as it should. Granted we can still use the maps on Xbox through a process entirely complex to be considered usable or enjoyable.

Like I said I'll talk with you later Liz.

[zealous010]

As for polite and respectful, we did that for months and you led us on with empty promises. I'm unsure what bloated sense of self-importance 2K has that it expects it can treat its customers like this and still have us come up all Please Sir Oliver Twist polite.

Ok to be frank with you beaver, not everyone was respectful.

[Ubuntu Solo]

Be respectful?

The same way 2k was respectful of us by stealing our money?

The same way 2k was respectful of us by releasing a broken game?

The same way 2k was respectful of us by abandoning their product?

What ever happened to people having pride in their work? This is like Michelangelo painting the Sistine Chapel and painting over it before its reveal. Sure the original substance is there, but no can see it.

2k you have lost a customer for life. In reading these forums, your company continually cuts corners in the name of profit while giving its customers a swift kick out the door.

Why is it that Bungie, EA, Treyarch, Infinity Ward, that company from the movie Grandma's Boy or anyone else who has had high school level programming experience can build a playlist for maps but the wonderful people at 2k Marin or Digital Extremes are unable to?

I'm sorry, but to ask for our respect after all this time of not giving us any in return is ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺. We have a right to be angry. You have robbed us with a broken problem and spit in our faces. Respect is earned and you have failed to do so. Treat other the way you wish to be treated; so obviously you wish to be treated with disrespect.

Out of curiosity, and please feel free to take as much as you need to locate the answer to this big mystery, what did 2k do with the numerous $10.00 bills taken from our wallets?

I'd say unbelievable, but it really isn't.

[FireyFate]

Relax guys, the Metro Map pack works perfectly, see? You should have to play on other people's schedule.. it's not like a lot of us are working professionals with real life responsibilities... we all have time to jump through a bunch of hoops to play new maps on a lousy multiplayer game.




My final question to you is, what is 2k's official thought on this. 2k sold us a broken product... not broken for some, broken for everyone. EVERY ONE. How does 2k justify keeping our money?

Hey,

Rapture Metro isn't broken. We intended upon initial design to have it work as it is working, however after release people asked us for a playlist. We explored the option, but in the end decided it's not going to be added in.

If you need help finding more games, I can give you a couple tips (private matches and partying up with people who have the content is a surefire way to dictate that you play them.)

[seriousmax]

Whaaat???:mad: So everything we have been waiting for during all these 8 months was for nothing?OMG!!!All lies.And don't try to justify you because everything you'll say will make you're reputation decrease even more.As the other guy stated above...you expect our respect after all this?Don't be ridiculous,Elizabeth!For God sake!!Put yourself in our place first(no,you can't I know)and you'll see how it feels.It's like you cut every bit of our flesh and expectations in small pieces.Tell me at least there will be at least a patch for the pc to fix the rest of the issues.I didn't see you telling us anything about this in your statement from an hour ago.Again...be sure that it'll be the last time I buy a 2k game(I mean the one MADE by them).Next time I buy one I'll make sure to hear the opinions of the other who played it,see the good,see the not so good and then make the decision.The worst company ever.You'd wish to even get the reputation Rockstar has.Hope gta V intimidates you so that it'll go bankrupt.You only produce games to make money without even trying to fix them when necessary.Such a shame..you lost(I swear)another customer.If you continue like this...I don't think I'll see you persisting until 2020.:mad: A Forever Bye ( f# lies,lies,lies)

P.S If you still have a bit of of respect(and of course decency) for your custumers try and answer the question regarding the pc patch.Will there be one?.Auf wiedersehen :mad:

[Ubuntu Solo]

I wouldn't hold my breath for a PC patch. They don't care about the customer experience, just the customer money. Besides, fixing things takes money and doesn't bring any back. But good luck in your fight.

[antfilm]

I'm giving fair warning to this thread. It's fine to express distaste. It's fine to say how you're feeling. It is NOT OK to insult 2K staff or other forum members. If I see insults, degrading remarks or trolling, I will not let it slide.

I'm sure we can all keep it under control.

Fair warning?? Keep it under control?? You conned us all into buying a broken game!the literature you published in advertising that game was a lie! the product you sold was not the one you said it was!! I WANT MY MONEY BACK!!!

[Precarious]

Fair warning?? Keep it under control?? You conned us all into buying a broken game!the literature you published in advertising that game was a lie! the product you sold was not the one you said it was!! I WANT MY MONEY BACK!!!

First of all, I'm a moderator and not a 2K employee. I'm only here to try and keep the peace. Getting hostile doesn't keep peace. It makes matters worse. So all I'm asking as a moderator is for you to tone it down a bit.

[Ubuntu Solo]

First of all, I'm a moderator and not a 2K employee. I'm only here to try and keep the peace. Getting hostile doesn't keep peace. It makes matters worse. So all I'm asking as a moderator is for you to tone it down a bit.

Could you please respond to my PM? Thanks.

[zealous010]

Fair warning?? Keep it under control?? You conned us all into buying a broken game!the literature you published in advertising that game was a lie! the product you sold was not the one you said it was!! I WANT MY MONEY BACK!!!

I don't even think she works directly for 2k/receives a paycheck from them. All I know is she does photography. She has a website. Its not bad, but children are easy subject matter as far as photography is concerned; adorable and appreciated by many/ not many ugly children out there.

Anyway, may i make a suggestion?

"Watch yourself. Ryan's stirring. We best keep to our knitting."

Be smart about what you post.
Be angry but do not let it control your words.
Be a gentleman or lady about it, by using a sharp tongue and a good amount of wit.

EDIT: Of course she gives us the answer while I'm typing lol

[mwinter77]

It's official - 2k ripped us off, lied to us for 8 months, and now wants our understanding - Ha goodbye 2k may you rot in the steaming pile of $%@# which is this game.

The giant middle finger which I showed everyone was 2k response to us was in fact 2k's real response to us - so in keeping with that all I can say is ☺☺☺☺ you too 2k!

[zealous010]

It's official - 2k ripped us off, lied to us for 8 months, and now wants our understanding - Ha goodbye 2k may you rot in the steaming pile of $%@# which is this game.

The giant middle finger which I showed everyone was 2k response to us was in fact 2k's real response to us - so in keeping with that all I can say is ☺☺☺☺ you too 2k!

An example of what not to do as said above.

An example of your communities feelings 2k.

I wonder what would happened if you applied this example into a calculation for customer satisfaction over all.

[soupface]

I'm not sure which is the greater disappointment: word that the single-player DLC will not be available on Windows, or the reactions of some of the members of this forum.

[Erorrless]

:|

sigh, at least we're getting something fixed. i wanted vending machine sounds really bad but i guess i'll have to repeat to myself "in those 10 years in rapture with no maintenance the sound thingy in the machines broke".

[FGMPR]

What an embarrassment this PC port has been for 2K:o. You would think that some decision makers somewhere would have a little pride in making an acceptable PC game, but I guess not.

[zealous010]

I'm not sure which is the greater disappointment: word that the single-player DLC will not be available on Windows, or the reactions of some of the members of this forum.

What were you expecting exactly?

I agree it wasn't my... finest hour yet not totally unreasonable. Others, yes, went to an extreme but really, what did you expect.

[Codex]

First off, I understand that people are angry. You have a perfect right to be.

I will ask three things from you all in announcing your displeasure:


Please be as respectful as possible. Simply put, if you wouldn't like it said to you, don't say it.
Do not backseat moderate. That's our job, not yours
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, they just have to express it effectively.


Thanks guys. The more orderly and well thought out your rage is, the more likely it is to be heard properly.

[jblitz]

So let me get this straight: first the game, while being a GFWL title, doesn't support the XBOX360 controller while the previous one did. When pressed upon 2K gives a weak excuse that they spent extra time into getting M+KB working correctly. Even though the game pretty much controls the same as the first one, consumers have to jump trough hoops to get the game working with the controller.

Bugs aren't fixed in the game, features that have been a standard in PC games aren't added, support has been pretty much below subpar. (No offence to you Elizabeth) And now DLC with what might contain vital plot points for the prequel to Bioshock isn't coming. Jeez, don't mind if I think twice before buying your next product :rolleyes:. What I don't understand is how your other products do get the proper support even on the PC version. Support on Mafia 2 and Borderlands has been great so far, why can't the PC version of Bioshock 2 get the same level of support? For me games by 2K have gone from an instant buy to a wait until the GOTY version arrives or just downright ignore the games.

[SpottedPattern]

You don't have to wait 8 months for an answer - I summarized it pretty well (I thought) in that post. Timing and technical issues were the problem. And again, apologies for the delay - we did explore the options, which is why this took some time, but as I said before, I wanted to give you guys a full explanation when everything was finalized.

That answers why 2K Marin 1) can't be bothered to release a patch to fix the things that break the game for many for the original game and 2) why 2K Marin can't be bothered to fix the Metro Map Pack list problem.

Though both of those reasons are wholely unacceptable for 2 reasons also 1) You've taken money from people for a game that does not work 2) you've taken money from people for a DLC that does not work, that's 2 counts of theft on multiple occassions for each customer you've stolen from.

YOUR EXPLANATION DOES NOT ANSWER THE FOLLOWING 2 THINGS :

1) WHY NO PROTECTOR TRIALS FOR PC ?
2) WHY NO MINERVA'S DEN FOR PC ?

I simply think that the real explanation is that 2K Marin are useless and can't fix problems, most of which have been in place since the games release 8 months ago.

Also I wouldn't be surprised if GFWL has something to do with it also re: patches and DLC's, and Microsoft.

Either that or 2K Marin are so busy with the next project that PC users can go get shafted.

In any case it simply stinks that 2K Marin basically don't give a <expletive> about their PC customers besides being happy to steal lots of their money for broken products.

Not being a US citizen I'd suggest a few of you look at a class action against 2K Marin for stealing your money.

PS

[Drez]

Well - that is that.

I am not at all exaggerating when I say that BioShock 2 is my most regretted game purchase of the last five, maybe ten years.

Primarily because I had really high hopes for it.

No specific offense to you, Liz, but 2k Marin's handling of all this was abhorrent. I understand that the company's bottom line is important and a company answers to shareholders first and end users last but management of information flow was a real trainwreck here and often felt disingenuous even if you were being honest or simply bound to certain policies with regard to information dissemination. The goal may have never been to "lie" but a lot of what went on felt dishonest and I would say that that perception is 2k Marin's responsibility.

Even if you always expected that 2k Marin would be able to rectify the issues, the way things were communicated to us made it seem as though they definitely would be. Naïve on my part, I suppose, but I have always held Take Two, 2k Games, and - by extension - its subsidiaries, in high regard. I may just be one inconsequential voice here but I am very disappointed, and most of that disappointment stems from the treatment we have received rather than the actual glitches in the game I truly wanted to enjoy for the last eight months.

[SpottedPattern]

Funnily enough it's been nothing, nothing, fibs, nothing, nothing, lies, nothing, nothings for 8 months ..... I e-mail over a dozen magazines and online publication yesterday and 2K Marin actually give a prompt concise answer for once, go figure.

Oh and don't forget that class action lawsuit my US cousins across the pond, you've been sold 2 broken products and had your money stolen, go on, go have fun :cool:

[2K Elizabeth]

Funnily enough it's been nothing, nothing, fibs, nothing, nothing, lies, nothing, nothings for 8 months ..... I e-mail over a dozen magazines and online publication yesterday and 2K Marin actually give a prompt concise answer for once, go figure.

Oh and don't forget that class action lawsuit my US cousins across the pond, you've been sold 2 broken products and had your money stolen, go on, go have fun :cool:

This isn't why the answer came today (I didn't even know you did that!) - whether you believe me or not, this is something I've been working on for a while. Decisions like this aren't made instantly!

[Duped]

This is pathetic. First you break the game right before release. Then you fail to recognize the 16:10 HUD issue. The saddest part is you could not even fix it after all this time.

The reeks of incompetence and greed.

You have set yourself up for potential litigation with your recent statements. You either expressly said you would fix issues or alluded that you would in order to garner more sales. Now you admit it was a lie all along.

You cannot expect us to believe it took 8 months to figure out that these issues could not be fixed. Please. You knew right away it was not lucrative to take developers off other projects and patch something you already made your return back on.

If it did actually take this long and you honestly were working diligently on these issues, you seriously have some incompetent talent there.

You do realize that in this economy, well any for that matter, there are litigators just itching for a case like this. You have deep enough pockets to make it worth their while. Us users won't benefit any, but at least it would make you think twice before pulling this again.

I can throw a rock and hit 200+ lawyers from my office. I'm sure one of them will bite.

[vipe155]

This is an extremely disappointing decision. Perhaps fixing things like vending machines sounds are only "unfeasible" because of the time wasted since launch. Perhaps if those issues had been fixed back in February, when everyone was still on project, things could have been different. Also, not bothering with PC users and Minerva's Den is ridiculous.

This ordeal has made me uninterested in all things 2k. I will definitely wait a significant amount of time before picking up Bioshock Infinite, only after it is cheap or buy a used copy. Even so, I suspect Ken Levine won't allow his game out the door in similar condition. I wonder what he thinks about 2K Marin's Bioshock 2 hack job?

[doomed]

Pathetic. I can't believe that 2K has become the laughing stock of the video gaming industry.

[SpottedPattern]

This isn't why the answer came today (I didn't even know you did that!) - whether you believe me or not, this is something I've been working on for a while. Decisions like this aren't made instantly!

Nice to see you answer the least important of my 2 posts, that is something I remember of old, it is something I've unfortunately come to expect when dealing with anyone in a Sales/Customer Services related position in North America, sorry to tar everyone with the same brush, but if the shoe fits, avoid answering the most pertinent thing by answering something less important to make the customer feel like they're being helped but in fact they're not.

And to say you have not seen my post in THIS thread that you yourself said is the ONE you READ is pathetic and blatantly more than likely untrue, please just look at tht etitle of this thread, thank you.

Sorry Liz you fail again, it's seem to be a culture thing at 2K Marin, the game wasn't that good anyway, showing that the dev's held back waiting to use some of the stuff which should have been in the main game in DLC's instead that you now can't be bothered to release to all of your customers. (Re-rumour mongering : It's not a rumour, it's an assertion of my educated opinion, working in the industry I know that it get's done, maybe not by 2K Marin, but there are tell tale signs that give it away when it's done).

I really suggest someone gets some litigation going, it's the only way 2K Marin will learn, it's the only big enough stick that will make difference when they're hit with it.

And Liz if you read this post in the thread that you read, supposedly, then reply to my post above the one you last answered, if you don't I wouldn't be surprised it'll only re-affirm our thoughts about 2K Marin, thanks.

PS

[Codex]

Guys, you may be mad but please do not start rumors about content being removed from the game to be sold as DLC.

Thanks.

[CarnivalBox]

So I obviously knew this was coming.
I guess it's just to bite the sour apple and move on. Life's not fair, deal with it.

The only thing I do not seem to get though, even after making the calculations over and over again, is how it could take 8 months to think about something as simple as making a patch.
This left me confused. :confused:

[Kleetus]

We will not be adding vending machine sounds into any version of BioShock 2...........we did look in to both options but due to technical and timing issues, these two fixes are not feasible

We were all promised that this was going to be fixed.

We have waited for months, only to be told this now. That's not good enough.

And no-one believes it's because of "technical and timing issues", don't patronise us further.

It's simply about saving money, these things could be easily fixed.


We will also not be offering Protector Trials and Minerva’s Den on the PC in the future

What happened to the "Big Patch" to fix the multitude of PC problems?

2K keep showing time after time that they can't be believed or trusted.

Doesn't 2K have any pride, or is it all about money and the next release?

[antfilm]

This isn't why the answer came today (I didn't even know you did that!) - whether you believe me or not, this is something I've been working on for a while. Decisions like this aren't made instantly!

The game was advertised and sold as having full compatibility with 16:10 monitors that IS a lie and was deliberate DECEPTION. I'm sure the decision to run with the printed infomation before releasing the game wasn't made instantly and yet it was put out there by 2k with full knowledge that it was a falsehood. 2K stole my money!!

[2K Elizabeth]

Spotted -

I don't respond well to threats and degrading comments - I would hope you don't treat other people in your life that way, so please, refrain from it here. Common courtesy and decency is part of being a member of these forums.

In regard to your inquiries as to why Minerva's Den and Protector Trials aren't coming out on PC, I didn't ignore your comment - I addressed it in my main post. We assessed the situation and due to timing and technical constraints, they aren't coming out. As I said in my first post, I'm sorry it took this long to reach this conclusion, but we explored all our options before reaching this decision.

[SpottedPattern]

Spotted -

I don't respond well to threats and degrading comments - I would hope you don't treat other people in your life that way, so please, refrain from it here. Common courtesy and decency is part of being a member of these forums.

In regard to your inquiries as to why Minerva's Den and Protector Trials aren't coming out on PC, I didn't ignore your comment - I addressed it in my main post. We assessed the situation and due to timing and technical constraints, they aren't coming out. As I said in my first post, I'm sorry it took this long to reach this conclusion, but we explored all our options before reaching this decision.


Ok what are the timing and technical constraints ? XCOM ?

[Velecost]

Spotted -

I don't respond well to threats and degrading comments - I would hope you don't treat other people in your life that way, so please, refrain from it here. Common courtesy and decency is part of being a member of these forums.

In regard to your inquiries as to why Minerva's Den and Protector Trials aren't coming out on PC, I didn't ignore your comment - I addressed it in my main post. We assessed the situation and due to timing and technical constraints, they aren't coming out. As I said in my first post, I'm sorry it took this long to reach this conclusion, but we explored all our options before reaching this decision.


Timing constraints? Blizzard still supports the original Starcraft which is over 10 years old.

[2K Elizabeth]

Ok what are the timing and technical constraints ? XCOM ?

XCOM is another title we're working on - I would have stated that if it were the case. I don't have the detailed breakdown (and honestly, it doesn't matter here because knowing the QA bullet points doesn't change the outcome.)

[jblitz]

Spotted -
I addressed it in my main post. We assessed the situation and due to timing and technical constraints, they aren't coming out. As I said in my first post, I'm sorry it took this long to reach this conclusion, but we explored all our options before reaching this decision.


No offense intended but you didn't or did not do adequate enough. What timing and technical constraints did you encounter that made it impossible for you to bring the fixes to the PC? What was the reason for canceling the DLC, again timing issues and technical constraints? Then why did your president announce that the DLC would be coming to the PC while it was still up in the air? How will this bode for the PC port of Bioshock 3, will it be canceled as well or will it come out and be supported as poorly as Bioshock 2 has?

[akskiller]

Wow 2K thanks a lot, thanks a ☺☺☺☺ing lot. Good bye you god awful company.

[AK Downfall]

...no playlist.
No support for PC gamers....

I smell an angry mob coming to California soon enough.
But even with all these fails i still have trust in you 2k Marin. Reasons idk but owell. My opinon is set in stone.

[cardboardvalise]

this is just sad. i watched all this go on for like two months now, no widescreen support like promised and no playlist? WTF?

refund!

[PureSmokey]

i dont believe these lies, Feb-oct IS A LONG TIME someone could have actually done the work and released it for the pc while you all "talked about it" in that long period of time, and yet no patch, no dlc, no ending for pc users

i have quite a few 4 letter words as to how i feel but a 6 letter one fits best

REFUND

give me my money and let us part ways, i wont play any more of your titles even if BS3 comes your way, i feel more then shafted and i didnt even get a kiss
it
Yea liz told me same thing, but i want my MP dlc money back as well, i didnt get to play online more then 3-4 hours from horrible hosting and constant crashing
had to watch the ending on youtube, because i got no cut scene, in 3 play throughs, the cut scene would start and flicker and then it go to credits, i forgave that, not this

[cardboardvalise]

Elizabeth said contact retailer for a refund.... but i bought it 2 months ago and can't get a refund now! and I can't get a refund for the map pack, there's no retailer, i bought it online! what do you expect us to do? this is unfair!

[Zuzax]

Elizabeth, you should make a sticky at the top of the Bioshock 2 Technical Support Forum entitled Bioshock 2 for PC no longer supported. This would save time for people who pick up the PC game in the bargin bin and vainly come here for support.

I guess this explains why you were never able to produce a known issues list for the PC. Development never kept one.

Oh well. My hope for you is that you can leave 2K and find some other position where you don't have to defend the lies and dubious decisions of your superiors. Get out before it permanently blackens your soul.

If we could insert pictures I would insert a picture of a kitten here.

[FireyFate]

due to timing and technical constraints, they aren't coming out. As I said in my first post, I'm sorry it took this long to reach this conclusion, but we explored all our options before reaching this decision.


You might as well say "due to management and logistics" or "due to accounting and economics." It is a completely vague, non-answer and you know it.


I would hope you don't treat other people in your life that way, so please, refrain from it here.


I would hope YOU don't treat other people in YOUR life the way 2k is treating US!

Picture this... In February, I tell my two nephews and my niece that I am planning a Disneyland trip for sometime in the fall. Come August, I announce that I am taking all three of them in September.

Oh wait, slight change of plans. I'm taking my nephews in September. My niece can go at a later date. Every time she asks, I say "let me consult my Calendar." "I'm trying really hard to get answers." Insert B.S. here.

"Ohhhhh sorry sweetheart I'm never taking you... In the future I'll communicate better so you don't misunderstand and think you are going. If you want you can look at youtube videos of other kids having a blast at Disneyland."


Except in this case, we PAID you for the privilege of getting jerked around.

[Relight]

I don't have the detailed breakdown (and honestly, it doesn't matter here because knowing the QA bullet points doesn't change the outcome.)

It doesn't change the outcome, but knowing the bullet points would make us feel like there actually was a reason, instead of just feeling disappointed and let down.

Minerva's Den especially was a major release for PC gamers as the story-driven conclusion to BioShock 2's "aggressive" DLC campaign.

In light of that, "sorry this major release is not coming out because of technical and timing reasons" doesn't seem like an adequate explanation.

I would also honestly like my money back from the Metro Map Pack. I could never play a single public match on those amazing maps. Then I can use that money to buy Mafia I.

[zealous010]

Well, it sounds like someone is having a bad day 2k.

To all our friends telling us Americans to get a class action suit going, it isn't the easiest thing in the world to get going, though god knows there are many lawyers with their eyes set on the gaming industry right now for various things.

There is an easier way though, a wonderful organization called the Better Business Bureau. I can not wait to get on the phone with them. I've already posted about them here on the forums but the information given to us, the consumers, today proves that 2k uses underhanded tactics and manipulated language to deceive its consumers. Those are not good business practices and I will point it out to every organization that cares. 2k may think its safe with its pile of cash and lawyers but.....

"War's on in full now, boy... and I've got a hell of a surprise for Andrew Ryan. Long time comin'."

For anyone else that would like to get in contact with the BBB please visit BBB.org for information on the organization and ANY company that it monitors. 2k has on a letter scale from A(the best) to F(the worst) has an F.

[Invader]

This is ☺☺☺☺ed. This is really ☺☺☺☺ed. In a nerdy way. My inner nerd wants to punch a hole through my monitor, yet my conscience/normal human being says, "No. Then you would be minus a computer". Then my nerd's all like "RAGE!" and my conscience/normal human being is all like, "Fine... *facepalm*".

Seriously guys, what the ☺☺☺☺? You sold me a ten dollar broken DLC, made me wait months upon months waiting on a promised patch to fix it's brokeness, and then the almighty Corporate Brain decides, "No. I changed my mind". That's just... a terrible way to run a company.

Then we have the vending machines. You had eight months starting tomorrow to get it fixed. But no. Honestly, it sounds like a simple problem. I'm no dev, but, come on! It's just a bunch of friggin' sound bites! It's not a big problem, and the sounds are present in Minerva's Den, but it takes away from the immersion of the main campaign, and that's dangerous for a BioShock title.

Then you cancel DLC for PC players. That ain't right, I tell 'ya what (to complete the Hank Hill-ness). I mean, we're all gamers here. We all want to give you our money. But due to some goddamn timing issues, it all gets cut off. You had months and months to pull this off, guys. The fact that you got it off to consoles in such a timely manner just makes it all the more insulting to those guys.

Look, BioShock's a great game, but it can't be it's best with morons running it. Now, I don't know what goes on in the heart of the Machine, but for God's sake it's definitely not putting the customers first. Now, the devs for BioShock are great, and I am pretty sure what's going on's not their fault. I have nothing against you, Elizabeth, but the company as a whole. Sure, we all saw it coming, but it just pisses me off to see it all come together.

*BAN INTERCEPTION PORTS ENGAGING. AWAITING BANHAMMER.*

[KevTech]

I have never had any issues with the game even before any patches were released so I tend to think some of the problems are particular PC configurations.

Sound issues I feel are from people using onboard sound which will NEVER be as good as a stand alone video card. Years ago nobody tried to game with onboard sound but now people think it is somehow good enough.

Mouse issues I have never had either so it may be people's mouse software conflicting with the game.

All in all the game works perfectly for me so I could care less if there are no more patches as I did not even need the first one.

Thanks 2K for a great game.

[Exelias]

Never getting another 2K game again, I really enjoy the story for the main game and am honestly being denied the last bit for Rapture. Just like a bad date all that build up and then nothing but let down.

[zealous010]

I have never had any issues with the game even before any patches were released so I tend to think some of the problems are particular PC configurations.

Sound issues I feel are from people using onboard sound which will NEVER be as good as a stand alone video card. Years ago nobody tried to game with onboard sound but now people think it is somehow good enough.

Mouse issues I have never had either so it may be people's mouse software conflicting with the game.

All in all the game works perfectly for me so I could care less if there are no more patches as I did not even need the first one.

Thanks 2K for a great game.

See I also had very few problems with the game and completed it just fine.
I However stand by my brethren that got shut down by a company that does not care about its consumers. And yes, Elizabeth does have to follow company policies, but i would like to point out that her innocence is questionable. For evidence see her post on language in this thread.

[domino29]

Hey guys,

I have an update on the status of patches for BioShock 2 and some answers to questions on features that have been outstanding for a while. We will not be adding vending machine sounds into any version of BioShock 2 and we will not be adding playlists for the multiplayer DLC maps – we did look in to both options but due to technical and timing issues, these two fixes are not feasible. We are planning patches for the 360 and PS3 to fix some functionality issues, but they will not drastically change gameplay (and I’ll post the patch notes when I get them – these two items are still in with QA.) We will also not be offering Protector Trials and Minerva’s Den on the PC in the future – and I want to say that I’m sorry for the disappointment this will cause to PC players out there. As always, if any of these issues change in the future, I will update you guys first, but at this point in time I don’t want to make you wait any longer and these are the most definite answers I have and you guys should deem them final decisions.

Please feel free to PM me or email with any questions – I’ll follow up in this thread as best as possible but if I miss your comment, I’m not ignoring you – I might just not have read the post – If this happens, again, just ping me and we can chat.

Thanks,

Elizabeth

Well it's good to see 2K is taking the initiative to finally tell us whats going on. Thank you 2K, and you too Liz. Sorry the trouble Ive given you over the past few months. My bad.

Anyway, sorry these issues couldnt be fixed. I hope next time you can get things done better, but hey, Im not complaining. :D

[cardboardvalise]

I have never had any issues with the game even before any patches were released so I tend to think some of the problems are particular PC configurations.

Sound issues I feel are from people using onboard sound which will NEVER be as good as a stand alone video card. Years ago nobody tried to game with onboard sound but now people think it is somehow good enough.

Mouse issues I have never had either so it may be people's mouse software conflicting with the game.

All in all the game works perfectly for me so I could care less if there are no more patches as I did not even need the first one.

Thanks 2K for a great game.

I'm using a creative labs fatality soundcard and the videos stutter! not onboard!

[B17gunner98th]

Well then. I guess I sort knew this was coming. Well I guess I just won't buy another 2K title again. Oh well, I think I'm going to play some other games and stop lurking the forums.

[B17gunner98th]

I think that being angry about it is like the Nazi's being angry about losing the war. They did something wrong, they got caught, now all we need is a mock nurnberg trials......

[zealous010]

I think that being angry about it is like the Nazi's being angry about losing the war. They did something wrong, they got caught, now all we need is a mock nurnberg trials......

The problem with that (if your referring to 2k as the Nazis) is that the really haven't been punished, besides losing customers, which are replaceable, what did they really lose because of this, Anyway War with 2k is in the 2k general area.

[Rama1965]

I have just now joined this forum for the express purpose of expressing my frustration and disappointment with your decision regarding the DLC for BioShock 2 as well as the lack of patches for some outstanding issues.

Finally, last year I replaced my 6 year old PC and began enjoying many of the games that I had previously been unable to play. I was so impressed with BioShock and enjoyed it so much that, upon completing it, I went out and immediately purchased BioShock 2. I encountered many of the key mapping bugs and, despite wasting hours trolling the forums trying to fix it so that I could play it in a fashion that was logical to me, persevered and eventually mostly enjoyed the experience as much as I did with the first game.

When I learned of the Minerva's Den DLC and that it would be released following the versions for XBOX 360 and PS3 I was mildly disappointed, but still grateful that your company seemed to be carrying through with a commitment to it's PC users. Now, to say that I am disappointed would be an understatement. To me, this decision makes it very clear that your company has little regard for it's PC customer base and that we will be treated as an afterthought from now on.

I was planning to purchase Borderlands and it's expansion packs next, but I think that I will instead support a company that is more interested in serving the PC market. Perhaps, I'll buy Mass Effect 2.

If I may make a suggestion, perhaps you should consider dropping the PC version of BioShock Infinite as well. I for one am no longer planning to purchase it as it will no doubt be as buggy and poorly supported as BioShock 2 and you've made it clear what level of support and commitment that we can expect from you in the future.

Sincerely,
A former loyal 2K Games customer.

[Raven-sb]

Well now it's offical. Bioshock 2 is the most regretable purchase I've ever made for my PC. Everything from DRM to DLC has been a pack of twisted truths and marketing speak the entire way.

WTG 2kgames, you've lost another customer.

[JLBiggs]

wow, this is just unbelievable. what a huge let down from a company that was thought so highly of in the past.

liz, im with relight. although it doesn't matter in the end because its still not coming, i feel a much better explanation of why these things aren't coming, is the least the company could do. i don't see how it could make anything worse than whats already happened. and it would make at least a few of us have a bit better understanding of the situation.

i hope one day someone from the company releases minervas den for the pc somehow, someway.

[Citadel]

i hope one day someone from the company releases minervas den for the pc somehow, someway.

Shoot, even a disc with the 2 dlcs for pc would be nice, but with our luck 2k would try to price it like a full game...

Sorry, that might be a low blow, but with the things that have been going on i felt that it needed to be said.

On a serious note, the disc part was an actual idea. 2 dlcs on the disc charge 10 bucks or whatever, make the pc people a little happier

[Kleetus]

I have never had any issues with the game even before any patches were released so I tend to think some of the problems are particular PC configurations.

That's great logic, just because it ran well for you, it must be our PC's, even though 2K has acknowledged the same issues on it's site. :rolleyes:


Sound issues I feel are from people using onboard sound

Wrong again. I have an X-Fi Fatlity and surround is broken.


All in all the game works perfectly for me so I could care less if there are no more patches as I did not even need the first one.

Wow, I wish we were all as skilled as you.

Maybe if I update my hardware drivers via Device Manager, like how you so expertly and wrongly suggested to people previously. :rolleyes:

Seeing as you're so skilled, why don't you tell us all how to fix the key binding issues where if you change the default "F", bindings don't work or display correctly?

Then tell us also how to stop Vsync from turning itself back on when game is restarted?

Can't wait to hear it.....

[Mr.Plum]

Good, it got some press coverage.

http://kotaku.com/5659593/pc-misses-out-on-bioshock-2-downloadable-content

[wilk0r]

Will reiterate my point, regardless of moderation:

You lied. The failure is complete. You are now being paid to lie professionally, good going. You have treated many here like dirt over several months, probably because someone told you not to tell them the cold hard truth that nothing will be done. Quite obviously this isn't some decision you've been agonising over for months, there never was a 'PC Team' in the first place.

In the immortal words of Steinman: "Ugly! Ugly!! UGLY!!!"

Brilliant response in the Kotaku article:


Is it me, or does Elizabeth Tobey suck at being a PR representative?

Bioshock 1 PC: "Yeah yeah, everyone's been lighting up my e-mail about the messed up widescreen visuals. Whatever. We'll get to it. Now shut up, please."

Bioshock 2 PC: "Yeah yeah, we know we effed up the widescreen visuals AGAIN. Whatever. We'll get to it. Now shut up, please."

Bioshock 2 PC: "Yeah yeah YEAH! Everyone's been e-mailing me asking is the DLC for Bioshock 2 is coming to PC? You know what? NO. It's not. F--- YOU. Okay? Jesus. It's not coming, stop asking me. Also, those vending machine sounds you want? Yeah, don't expect those either. Idiots, now you can stop jabbering. Also, please buy more 2K games for PC so I can keep my job."

[B17gunner98th]

The problem with that (if your referring to 2k as the Nazis) is that the really haven't been punished, besides losing customers, which are replaceable, what did they really lose because of this, Anyway War with 2k is in the 2k general area.

Lol that's why I said Nurnberg trials.

[Stevedroid]

I just don't get this decision, especially in light of Steam now offering DLC.

In the past I understand that offering DLC for PC games meant a publisher had to setup their own sales and distribution portal, as Bethesda did for Oblivion, and that's quite an expensive and time consuming proposition. Now, however Steam can handle the distribution, just as Microsoft and Sony do with Live/PS Network. That leaves development time only - and the content is already developed. Surely it can't be that difficult to integrate it with the PC version?

Plenty of other publishers now sell DLC through Steam, hell even 2K has with Mafia 2. So why can't the DLC just be sold through Steam?

If it could only work with the Steam version, so bet it. Put the game on a weekend special for $15 and you'd probably have people who bought it on disc rebuy on Steam it just so they could play the DLC.

Anyway, I'm an adult and I'm rational, so I'm not going to make any spurious claims about never buying a 2K game again or somesuch, but these kinds of actions are really disappointing.

[spamster1971]

Dear 2K, for sometime now I had been planning on purchasing "Bioshock 2", however I have now made a different choice. The lack of support for PC users and the choice not to release any Bioshock 2 DLC for the PC has caused me to re-evaluate my decision to spend money on your product. This is most regrettable for myself as I was looking forward to playing this. Please don't play the game that so many other publishers have been playing and consider the PC as dumping ground for bad ports of your titles from the various gaming systems because its the "easy and cheap thing to do."
Take a page out of Valve softwares book and instead, eagerly embrace the PC gaming community. I can assure you that if you follow their lead and support PC gamers in the same way that they do, nothing but admiration and success will result.
I recognize that there are challenges to building software for different gaming platforms and that the PC format can be a particularly challenging format, considering all the different processors, video cards, OS's and memory....etc...etc. But if other publishers can tackle these issues and be successful, than surely 2K games can handle them as well.

Sincerely,

A PC Gamer



Hey guys,

I have an update on the status of patches for BioShock 2 and some answers to questions on features that have been outstanding for a while. We will not be adding vending machine sounds into any version of BioShock 2 and we will not be adding playlists for the multiplayer DLC maps – we did look in to both options but due to technical and timing issues, these two fixes are not feasible. We are planning patches for the 360 and PS3 to fix some functionality issues, but they will not drastically change gameplay (and I’ll post the patch notes when I get them – these two items are still in with QA.) We will also not be offering Protector Trials and Minerva’s Den on the PC in the future – and I want to say that I’m sorry for the disappointment this will cause to PC players out there. As always, if any of these issues change in the future, I will update you guys first, but at this point in time I don’t want to make you wait any longer and these are the most definite answers I have and you guys should deem them final decisions.

Please feel free to PM me or email with any questions – I’ll follow up in this thread as best as possible but if I miss your comment, I’m not ignoring you – I might just not have read the post – If this happens, again, just ping me and we can chat.

Thanks,

Elizabeth

[IllusionOfLife]

Guys, I'm upset about this too. I've lost a lot of respect for corporate 2K over this, and I think they have handled the post release support of BioShock 2 very poorly.

That being said, Elizabeth is NOT to blame here. All she did was relay the message, and, quite frankly, this decision was far above the pay grade of any 2K employee that posts on these forums. Elizabeth is just doing what she's told, doing her job so that she can keep a job, just like the rest of us. It's not her place to publicly argue with a company decision. She's not just corporate's lap dog, doing tricks for a biscuit, she's just someone who is doing her job so she doesn't have to struggle to find another one in these tough economic times.

Think about it, how many times have you had to bite your lip and deal with a stupid decision made by your manager or by your company because you want to keep your job? She's doing the same thing. 2K Games made a bad decision and unfortunately they sent Liz as the messenger of the bad news. It's the suits at 2K that you should be angry at, not Elizabeth. Don't shoot the messenger and all that…

[akskiller]

So is there going to be a patch ti fix the HUD helmet thing or any patch for PC!

[IllusionOfLife]

*snip*

Once again, see my comment on the bottom of the last page regarding who is really to blame. Jordan Thomas and the team aren't to blame for the technical issues, 2K wanted to strike while the iron was hot and didn't give the game the time it needed to get all the kinks worked out.

[Lee James]

Guys, I'm upset about this too. I've lost a lot of respect for corporate 2K over this, and I think they have handled the post release support of BioShock 2 very poorly.

That being said, Elizabeth is NOT to blame here. All she did was relay the message, and, quite frankly, this decision was far above the pay grade of any 2K employee that posts on these forums. Elizabeth is just doing what she's told, doing her job so that she can keep a job, just like the rest of us. It's not her place to publicly argue with a company decision. She's not just corporate's lap dog, doing tricks for a biscuit, she's just someone who is doing her job so she doesn't have to struggle to find another one in these tough economic times.

Think about it, how many times have you had to bite your lip and deal with a stupid decision made by your manager or by your company because you want to keep your job? She's doing the same thing. 2K Games made a bad decision and unfortunately they sent Liz as the messenger of the bad news. It's the suits at 2K that you should be angry at, not Elizabeth. Don't shoot the messenger and all that…

Agreed. Though I don't understand why she doesn't want to quit such a ill corrupted company? I sympasize for the pc users. Waiting, aimlessly for the dlc, and only to be screwed over by 2K. Liz say's there busy, but with what? XCOM, and Spec Ops? 2 piss poor titles if you ask me.

Give me a break. This is why I never supported Bioshock 2. Bioshock was Ken's creation, it was Irrational creation. An to see it simply shipped of to 2K was a fatal mistake. It's obvious they don't care about Bioshock 2, as Levine would care about Bioshock Infinite.

[IllusionOfLife]

Liz say's there busy, but with what? XCOM, and Spec Ops?

The problem I'm seeing is that 2K has become so focussed on producing as many franchise titles as possible that they're not giving proper support in both time and money to each individual project. Right now they're juggling XCOM, BioShock, Mafia, Spec Ops, Civilization, and Duke Nukem. The approach is quantity over quality and that's a bad business plan.

[nbajammer]

*snip*

Infinite is not a sequel, in fact it's not even in the same universe.

[Lee James]

The problem I'm seeing is that 2K has become so focussed on producing as many franchise titles as possible that they're not giving proper support in both time and money to each individual project. Right now they're juggling XCOM, BioShock, Mafia, Spec Ops, Civilization, and Duke Nukem. The approach is quantity over quality and that's a bad business plan.

An it's funny that everying that has been made by 2K has been rather poor compared to the original. Bioshock 1 is not even comparable to Bioshock 2 (not saying Bioshock 2 is bad, but it's just not the same Ken Levine experience), Mafia 2 sucks horribley compared to Mafia 1.

It seems that 2K sucks at developing games, and relies on other studio's to create top level games.

[johnjohn]

Shame on you, 2k Games.

Seriously? You'd pull this on a planet with search engines? In 2010? You have fundamentally misunderstood the cost of a promise. You refuse to post this message on the cult of rapture page, and you refuse to give the announcement its own thread. It reads like a bad April Fool's joke -- though, come to think of it, that's around when this game should have been fixed. Most heartless corporations can at least process the fact that it's better to lose a buck than it is to blatantly lie to your customers and lose all of their future bucks.

Release the source to your crappy game and let some actual programmers fix it. Pray to the gods of public opinion. Otherwise, enjoy your career search, replete with thousands of indexed references.

[fociz]

Shame on you, 2k Games.

Seriously? You'd pull this on a planet with search engines? In 2010? You have fundamentally misunderstood the cost of a promise. You refuse to post this message on the cult of rapture page, and you refuse to give the announcement its own thread. It reads like a bad April Fool's joke -- though, come to think of it, that's around when this game should have been fixed. Most heartless corporations can at least process the fact that it's better to lose a buck than it is to blatantly lie to your customers and lose all of their future bucks.

Release the source to your crappy game and let some actual programmers fix it. Pray to the gods of public opinion. Otherwise, enjoy your career search, replete with thousands of indexed references.


Agreed and Agreed.

[doomed]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BioShock_2#Unresolved_issues_and_discontinued_supp ort_for_the_PC_version

[yogibbear]

This sucks. I'm annoyed. I don't know what to say. Simply put this keeps happening. You keep making me feel dissapointed as a customer. I don't know how or if i will be able to contemplate future purchases of your games. There has been a trend going on here ever since post-Bioshock 1. It's almost as if 2k think they can bank all future success off that one great game... Unluckily the more games you rush out and decide not to support, the more likely it is that you're developing a bad reputation for not only with your customers, but your employees, their families and your shareholders. I, personally, wouldn't want to work at 2k. This current culture is shameful. :(

[Erorrless]

I blame the unneeded multiplayer that took away money from the single player, thus neither was a polished product.

[SpottedPattern]

XCOM is another title we're working on - I would have stated that if it were the case. I don't have the detailed breakdown (and honestly, it doesn't matter here because knowing the QA bullet points doesn't change the outcome.)

No it does not change the outcome, and that is that it is very clear that 2K Marin and 2K Games by extension do not give a toss about PC customers.

I will stand by the fact that this announcement only came as a result of me contacting a dozen plus magazines/online publications pointing out the poor service 2K Marin were giving to PC customers, you jumped before you were pushed, 2K Marin that is, why else would there suddenly be something clear concise and to the point after 8 months of screwing your PC customers around.

Also nice of you to post something like this on your piddly little forum as opposed to officially on Cult Of Rapture or contacting the mag's/online pub's to let them know especially on a Friday evening hoping that it would blow over by Monday, this kind of thing has been done numerous times before on here, for things like this ....... and you wonder why people have such a poor poor opinion of 2K Marin and it's mouth piece.

Sorry 2K Marin you have failed and fallen, as I said you jumped before you were pushed, at least some of the other studios, Gearbox and Irrational for example know how to a) make a game and b) support it, unlike the unprofessional lot at 2K Marin.

All I can say is karma and hope this comes back and bites.

PS

[EricHalfBee]

Hey guys,

I have an update on the status of patches for BioShock 2 and some answers to questions on features that have been outstanding for a while. We will not be adding vending machine sounds into any version of BioShock 2 and we will not be adding playlists for the multiplayer DLC maps – we did look in to both options but due to technical and timing issues, these two fixes are not feasible.


Thanks Elizabeth for providing this definitive statement regarding future work and support for BS2 and BS2 DLC.

I'd like to state, most particularly for the benefit of any devs & designers who might read this thread, that I really enjoyed the game you produced and thought it had some stand out sequences, beautiful locations and great atmosphere. I played it on the 360 and wasn't troubled by the problems that PC owners experienced. I also enjoyed the MP. I understand that the decision to release isn't usually taken by devs and that this explains some of the issues with the game.

I, like many, am disappointed that I won't get to play the extra MP maps you created. I'm sure the designers of those maps aren't happy that they won't really reach their gaming 'public' either. It's easy for me not to be bitter about that as I was waiting to see if they were going to be fixed before purchasing. I now know that this content will remain broken and can avoid it.

As to the companies wisdom in selling a product (the DLC) that cannot be used (I know the workarounds and IMO they're not acceptable) and then deciding not to fix them for cost issues.. Well, time will tell whether the damage to 2K's reputation was worth it. It looks like sharp practice to me.

Happy gaming everyone. Best wishes to all. Thanks again for providing the final answer Elizabeth.

[SoIHerdULiekBoxxy]

Once again, see my comment on the bottom of the last page regarding who is really to blame. Jordan Thomas and the team aren't to blame for the technical issues, 2K wanted to strike while the iron was hot and didn't give the game the time it needed to get all the kinks worked out.

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard!

"Oh, I installed Windows 7, but now my computer won't turn on. It's not Microsoft's fault, they just needed to get something out fast after Vista"

It's absolutely NO excuse for shipping a broken product (No, I'm not saying Windows 7 is broken, it was an example)

The team screwed up, I hope they don't sleep at night

As for the Multiplayer comment, GTFO. Making more excuses than 2K

[Fear No Darkness]

What a disgrace. I'm very sorry that I've continually supported Bioshock 2 when this is how they treat their customers. Well, no longer.

You can add me to your list of lost customers 2k.

[NickM]

Please try to be polite and respectful, though. Taking low blows at me, the dev team, or anyone else isn't going to help anything.


Hmmm. You can probably appreciate that we are unimpressed with your performance?

[Zuzax]

Good, it got some press coverage.

http://kotaku.com/5659593/pc-misses-out-on-bioshock-2-downloadable-content

It's also got a Wikipedia entry as well, with citations back to the posts made by 2K reps.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BioShock_2#Unresolved_issues_and_discontinued_supp ort_for_the_PC_version


Unresolved issues and discontinued support for the PC version

There have been several bugs the game suffers from that 2K has acknowledged their existence.[35] On February 8, 2010, a day before the release of the game, Michael Kamper, 2K's audio lead, apologized to the BioShock community that because of a mistake, the vending machine voices and sounds are not being heard in any version of the game.[36] He later posted that the cause of the issue has been identified[37] and added that a fix will be released with a future patch.[38] Another issue that has been identified by Michael Kamper, is that Big Sister's musical theme in Pauper's Drop level, is stuck playing for the entire level even after the player defeats her.[39] On May 7, 2010 Elizabeth Tobey, 2K's Community Manager, reassured the BioShock community that in the next patch for the game the vending machine sounds will be restored for all platforms[40] however that wasn't the case when the patch was released. On 26 July, 2010 Elizabeth posted that the long waited patch for the PC version is getting some final touches and she'll post the patch notes and release date when it's ready.[41] On late September, Elizabeth asked the BioShock community to make a list of all the outstanding issues the game still has[42] to check them with the development team.

On October 8, 2010[43], eight months after the release of the game, Elizabeth stated that due to technical and timing reasons 2K has decided that they won't release a patch for the PC version to fix the identified issues, and the missing vending machine sounds and playlists for the multiplayer DLC maps won't be added to any versions of the game. Furthermore the Protector Trials and Minerva’s Den DLCs won't be released on the PC either.

I wonder how much longer before 2K deletes all these threads (like the one you're reading now) to make it appear that none of this community outrage ever happened.

[IllusionOfLife]

*Removed by Precarious*

Attacking Elizabeth is not going to do any good here. She's just relaying a message, this was not her decision, this was not her call, she's just doing her job so that she can keep it. Corporate 2K made a bad decision and sent her to take all the heat for it. I'm being redundant here so please just refer to THIS (http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1210667&postcount=200) post.


That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard!

"Oh, I installed Windows 7, but now my computer won't turn on. It's not Microsoft's fault, they just needed to get something out fast after Vista"

It's absolutely NO excuse for shipping a broken product (No, I'm not saying Windows 7 is broken, it was an example)

The team screwed up, I hope they don't sleep at night

As for the Multiplayer comment, GTFO. Making more excuses than 2K

I'm making no excuses, I'm just informing you who to blame. Corporate 2K started up a new studio and gave them BioShock 2, Corporate 2K set the deadline and the budget, Corporate 2K made the decision not to support the PC in the single player DLC after all this time. The development team for 2K Marin did their best under the poor management they were given by Corporate 2K. If Windows 7 is broken because of rushed deadlines it's Corporate Microsoft's fault for not giving it enough time, not the designer's fault for not having enough time.

I'm sure your next argument would be, "well than they should have stood up against 2K and demanded more time." Do you really think they could? Cliff Blezisinsky could pull a stunt like that, Ken Levine could pull a stunt like that, Jordan Thomas, though, would have been fired had he tried to pull a stunt like that. You see, Jordan Thomas and 2K Marin were new names to the gaming world and so they did not carry the weight required to make any sort of demands, they had to do their best under their leadership from corporate 2K.

I fully agree, 2K Games made a HUGE mistake here, but it was a decision made by the suits, not by the developers. The developers never said "hey, let's make a crappy game!" but Corporate 2K did say "let's release an unfinished game and hopefully fix it through patches if we get around to it." Release dates come from Corporate, not from the developer.

[drprofessor]

This is very disappointing. I've been a long time fan of 2k and I can't help but be surprised, especially considering some previous statements made. I think, at the very least, the PC audience deserves a more detailed answer. I build software for a living. There is no such thing as something being absolutely impossible. Feasibility is often a cost vs. benefit decision. I'd rather hear that getting these defects fixed and the DLC working would cost too much or take too much time given the install base for BS2 on the PC. Or that the impact on the timeline for another project would be too costly. Or that releasing the DLC as a free patch instead of paid DLC was the only option and was ruled out.

Now that I re-read Elizabeth's post, there isn't even an explanation on why the DLC isn't coming, unless the implication was that the reasons were 'technical and timing' as well.

I'm not interested in class action lawsuits or anything else that frivolous. I'll show my disappointment by more carefully considering purchasing any future 2k game purchase (all of 2k, not just Marin), waiting for lower prices so that I don't feel as disappointed, or just playing one of many other blockbuster titles being released and well supported for the PC.

I enjoyed what I did play of BS2 and I'm thankful for that. But I'm not interested in incomplete gaming experiences. Thankfully there are still companies that put the PC audience first such as Valve.

[fashric]

Honestly all you guys are wasting effort typing the easiest and single most effective way of showing how badly let down you feel is by simply voting with your wallet. Please if you feel as I do say you will never purchase another 2k game on any platform.

[gbrading]

I am disgusted.

[cardboardvalise]

Guys, you may be mad but please do not start rumors about content being removed from the game to be sold as DLC.

Thanks.

can we be angry about you messing up the dlc and not refunding us for it?

[cardboardvalise]

It's also got a Wikipedia entry as well, with citations back to the posts made by 2K reps.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BioShock_2#Unresolved_issues_and_discontinued_supp ort_for_the_PC_version



I wonder how much longer before 2K deletes all these threads (like the one you're reading now) to make it appear that none of this community outrage ever happened.

they deleted that guy's Better Business Bureau 'war on 2k' thread

[IllusionOfLife]

You don't know this is true. Personally, I think you are being way too soft on her. She is the community manager and an employee. She had a voice and she was part of 2K's programme of misleading its own customers. As far as I can see, she carries some of the blame for this fiasco.

What I don't understand is why they announced DLC and patches for the PC and then changed their minds. It would have been far better to promise nothing then deliver a pleasant surprise than to do it the other way round. Not clever on their part and not clever on her part.

Liz's job is to be 2K community manager and she set up the "cult of Rapture" web pages. It's hard not to conclude that she has actually done a fair bit to antagonise the PC fan base and she probably was not a good hire.

I hope that in future she can find employment more in line with her abilities. Maybe in the catering or house-cleaning services?

Her job was not to make these decisions, her job was not to decide if the content gets release or not, her job was simply to relay the information she received from corporate to us. Any 'misleading' we got from her was a direct result of corporate 2K not having their act together. She's not in on any sort of conspiracy, she's not manipulating the fan base, all she's doing is relaying a message from corporate.

The original plan was to release the content for PC, but then corporate 2K decided not to release it. I fully agree, it was a terrible call, but it was a decision made by corporate 2K, not by Jordan Thomas, not by Steve Gaynor, not by any of the development team, and not by Elizabeth Tobey. Liz has been a wonderful community manager, and she set up the amazing Something in the Sea campaign for BioShock 2, now, however, corporate has thrown her under the bus and she's getting all the heat that corporate deserves. To personally insult her doesn't do any good; it just adds insult to injury for her and allows the people who are really responsible to dodge another bullet.

You have every right to be angry, I'm angry too, but you have to know who to be angry at. Being angry at Liz doesn't do anybody any good; she's not to blame, and she can't fix the problem. Corporate 2K is to blame, so by all means, be angry, just be angry at them, not at Liz.


can we be angry about you messing up the dlc and not refunding us for it?

Codex is not a 2K employee, she's just someone who was asked to help moderate these forums. You can be angry, by all means, she's simply asking not make the problem worse by spreading misinformation. Two wrongs don't make a right and all that…

[cardboardvalise]

Her job was not to make these decisions, her job was not to decide if the content gets release or not, her job was simply to relay the information she received from corporate to us. Any 'misleading' we got from her was a direct result of corporate 2K not having their act together. She's not in on any sort of conspiracy, she's not manipulating the fan base, all she's doing is relaying a message from corporate.

The original plan was to release the content for PC, but then corporate 2K decided not to release it. I fully agree, it was a terrible call, but it was a decision made by corporate 2K, not by Jordan Thomas, not by Steve Gaynor, not by any of the development team, and not by Elizabeth Tobey. Liz has been a wonderful community manager, and she set up the amazing Something in the Sea campaign for BioShock 2, now, however, corporate has thrown her under the bus and she's getting all the heat that corporate deserves. To personally insult her doesn't do any good; it just adds insult to injury for her and allows the people who are really responsible to dodge another bullet.

You have every right to be angry, I'm angry too, but you have to know who to be angry at. Being angry at Liz doesn't do anybody any good; she's not to blame, and she can't fix the problem. Corporate 2K is to blame, so by all means, be angry, just be angry at them, not at Liz.



Codex is not a 2K employee, she's just someone who was asked to help moderate these forums. You can be angry, by all means, she's simply asking not make the problem worse by spreading misinformation. Two wrongs don't make a right and all that…

it's nice that you defend these people, but where does that leave the people who bought the game?

[NickM]

not by Elizabeth Tobey. Liz has been a wonderful community manager,

I disagree. She has ignored PMs from various posters about PC issues (me included) and she has been evasive, lazy and manipulative. Frankly, 2K's reputation would be better if she had never posted in the BS2 forums in the first place.

[IllusionOfLife]

it's nice that you defend these people, but where does that leave the people who bought the game?

In a bad spot, I agree. It's still not Liz's fault, though, and she personally can't do anything to fix it. This is an issue for corporate 2K.


I disagree. She has ignored PMs from various posters about PC issues (me included) and she has been evasive, lazy and manipulative. Frankly, 2K's reputation would be better if she had never posted in the BS2 forums in the first place.

She gets a ton of PMs, emails, Xbox LIVE messages, etc. every day, it's nothing personal if she misses some, she just has a lot on her plate. Also, she has not been evasive, manipulative, or lazy, corporate 2K has been all those things and she's simply had to relay their shenanigans to us and do her best to deal with the lack of quality leadership in the company. Besides, would you have really rather had no news? Did you really just want to be given a line forever rather than get a straight answer. Liz has always been honest with us to the best of her ability. She's always honestly told us what corporate has told her, it just so happens that corporate can't get their act together and through their poor decision they've made Liz look bad.

[Zuzax]

I guess any messenger's culpability can always be argued between the positions of "just following orders" in order to keep a paycheck and having the strength of conviction to leave a morally repugnant organization when its intent to deceive is clear to all involved.

Many people would blacken their soul in order to pay the rent and buy groceries for their families. Only the messenger can truly say whether or not it was worth it in the long run.

[Codex]

can we be angry about you messing up the dlc and not refunding us for it?

First off, all moderators are VOLUNTEERS. We do not work directly for 2K. Our only job here is to keep the peace and enforce forum rules. We do not have any more of a hotline to 2k corporate than you do.

That being said, I fully understand (and empathize) with everyone who is upset - but that does not give you a right to personally attack members of 2K or the moderators on these boards.

What people don't understand is that the best way to make an angry voice heard is to be as polite, concise and articulate as possible. Swearing every other word and throwing hissy fits will NOT get anyone to take people seriously. Until people realize that they are aiming their hatred at the wrong people, you're not going to get the response you want to get.

[yogibbear]

Hiding behind this supposed "2k corporate" as an excuse is complete BS. At my work, when someone claims something is too difficult or is being stuffed around by "corporate" i will ask to speak to their supervisor or get annoyed at them for not taking responsibility themselves in fixing something (this is generally directed at Human Resources who are the classic "wah wah corporate are stuffing us around" excuse.

Yes i'm sure 2k corporate does exist and does make these sorts of decisions, but that doesn't mean 2k Marin can't go asking for the budget and getting it put aside in a "patch" fund before the release of the game when they know (from their supposed QA/QC testing) that these issues exist already.

[SpottedPattern]

Right wheel out one of the idiots in a suit or a few of them let's see if they can make people happy, i.e. their customers whom they've stolen from and conned.

Doubtless it'll never happen.

Plus to further elaborate on the post above, Bioshock 2 one of the most anticipated sequels in recent history, doesn't ring true with budgetary constraints and so on, so pull the other one.

[cardboardvalise]

First off, all moderators are VOLUNTEERS. We do not work directly for 2K. Our only job here is to keep the peace and enforce forum rules. We do not have any more of a hotline to 2k corporate than you do.

That being said, I fully understand (and empathize) with everyone who is upset - but that does not give you a right to personally attack members of 2K or the moderators on these boards.

What people don't understand is that the best way to make an angry voice heard is to be as polite, concise and articulate as possible. Swearing every other word and throwing hissy fits will NOT get anyone to take people seriously. Until people realize that they are aiming their hatred at the wrong people, you're not going to get the response you want to get.

so the six months of people being nice didn't get the gamers taken seriously either, they got shafted, what do you want us to do to get a response we want?

[Monolithic]

I'm going to keep my post brief, as there isn't anything I want to say that hasn't already been said.
I purchased BioShock 2 the day it was released, on the PC. So far I have been greatly unimpressed with the post-release support 2K has shown for the game, especially the PC version. I am also unimpressed with the support in the forums.
This is the final blow in a series of disappointments, and I can't say I didn't expect it. Yet another example of PC gamers being shafted in an increasingly console-centered business. My respect for 2K as a company has greatly declined.

[zealous010]

they deleted that guy's Better Business Bureau 'war on 2k' thread

They tried to close it and then they moved it. I made it so that issues with 2k wouldn't mix with issues with the game which is I think what this thread was originally created for, I'm not really sure anymore.

Check it out if you want: http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93823

[Zuzax]

We might want to archive all these threads because I'm sure this whole mess is getting ready to go *poof* like it never happened.

[NickM]

What people don't understand is that the best way to make an angry voice heard is to be as polite, concise and articulate as possible. Swearing every other word and throwing hissy fits will NOT get anyone to take people seriously. Until people realize that they are aiming their hatred at the wrong people, you're not going to get the response you want to get.

But it's been made very clear by the charming Liz that there is no PC DLC and no PC patch. It doesn't matter if people are polite or if people swear because there is no possibility of a "response you want to get". In reality, 2K doesn't give a stuff and they are indifferent to the views expressed in their forums by PC gamers.

Your implication (last sentence) that if people were polite they might get a better response from 2K is nonsense. Do you really, really think that if people were polite 2K might change their minds about a PC patch? I don't think so.

If 2K want to have forums where people do nothing but sing their praises they can either a) deliver a high-quality product and support it, or b) continually prune out critical threads. What they can't do is treat their PC customers like fools and expect them to refrain from expressing their opinions.

Now, as a moderator, you can start deleting and/or locking threads on behalf of 2K to hide the fact that many of their PC customers are unhappy with them, or you can recognise that 2K has pissed off its PC customers and is getting the slagging off that it deservers.

Your call.

Have a good evening.

[doomed]

Now, as a moderator, you can start deleting and/or locking threads on behalf of 2K to hide the fact that many of their PC customers are unhappy with them, or you can recognise that 2K has pissed off its PC customers and is getting the slagging off that it deservers.

They're known to be praising all of 2K's silly decisions ( blast from the past! -> http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=191631 ) and then Elizabeth posts that she's not responsible for their actions and what they write.

[YardWaste]

After this, and how CIV 5 has become a major disappointment for me( likely the worst version in the whole series, never mind the bugs), having 2K listed on the box of any game in the future will cause my wallet to stay closed.

[lightfox]

I pre-purchased the game on PC.
Then i waited, because the game was bugged, and i wanted to have to best experience possible.
And NOW, at a time where i could have gotten the game for half its original price, i see THIS.

It was already obvious from day one, but now 2K games is clearly and officially saying they don't care about PC anymore. Thanks for clarify that at least.

Hurray for pirates, who have now succeeded in killing the PC as a viable gaming platforme as far as 2K is concerned. I suppose we can expect the same kind of treatment for Duke nukem forever. Yay.

[Nitrax]

I'm glad this was announced now and not in another two months. We've just started casting for the (granted stupidly delayed) second episode of the (utterly unknown) Bioshock Fan Radio play thingy and at least it is early enough for us to cancel the studio booking and not waste our time in rehearsal. (www.rapurefreeradio.net – for about the next week.)

This will also be the last time I purchase anything from 2k games. They shouldn't be too sad about it, after all from Bioshock alone they've made about $300 dollars from me. Boy, do I feel like a sucker now, but I won't make the same mistake twice, no sir! X-Com, Civilization, Bioshock Infinity are all now off of my 'to-buy' list, congratulations 2k Games, you have done what no other gaming company in the past 20 years have ever managed to do. The sheer callousness and lack of respect you have shown your faithful customers is mind boggling.

Elizabeth, as someone who followed the 'There's Something in the Sea' campaign and your work on these boards I just want to say that you are too good for 2k Games. Your dedication to this company is a marvel and they do not in any way, shape or form deserve someone like you. You have gone above and beyond the call of duty and I thank you for your work here. If there was any justice in the world you would be working at a company that respects it's customers. If I thought that you would be willing to move elsewhere I'd write a nice email to Gabe Newell filled with the top 100 reasons why Valve should employ you. Since they are a company that actually listens to it's fans it might work too.

So long Bioshock, I'll guess we'll always have Fort Frolic. (But not it seams Minerva's Den)

Nitrax

[fociz]

Yeah, yeah, your games don't sell because of piracy, not because you mistreat your PC buyers.

[PureSmokey]

I pre-purchased the game on PC.
Then i waited, because the game was bugged, and i wanted to have to best experience possible.
And NOW, at a time where i could have gotten the game for half its original price, i see THIS.

It was already obvious from day one, but now 2K games is clearly and officially saying they don't care about PC anymore. Thanks for clarify that at least.

Hurray for pirates, who have now succeeded in killing the PC as a viable gaming platforme as far as 2K is concerned. I suppose we can expect the same kind of treatment for Duke nukem forever. Yay.
Dont blame pirates for a lazy company, 2K did this and 2K alone, and they knew they were going too, by reading responses to question since feb you could tell the shaft was coming, they were waiting for the least amount of crap storm
2k is by far the most corrupt company, the well worded lies and the act working, then the circles they send you in
This should be treated as a Product recall and the money returned to the pc users for not getting the finished WORKING product
eff you 2k gimme my game or my money
im sick of being nice to you guys and you never treated me as a customer or as someone you deserved worthy of your time..
Dont blame pirates for a lazy company thats squirming for anyway out

[SpottedPattern]

Can anyone else say cluster f^*k, seriously http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&source=hp&biw=1672&bih=937&q=pc+no+bioshock+2+dlc&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=db32e82529e11022, now 2K Marin and 2K Games sheer ineptitude is global, consumer back lash is the least of your worries when the majortiy of informed PC gamers will think twice about ever buying a PC game when they know that PC gamers mean absolutely diddly freaking squat to you, shoot yourself in the foot much, you complete and utter muppets, oh that's right you can blame dwindling sales of PC games squarely and solely on piracy as opposed to you not knowing how to release a working game or support a title at all.

Honestly fire anyone who remotely looks like a management type, as in my 10+ years experience in the industry suits know sweet FA about how to do things successfully, look at the cluster ☺☺☺☺ that was our recent banking crisis for stark evidence.

PS

[akskiller]

So Bioshock 2 PC support is done then?

[seriousmax]

Hope this game company will go bankrupt.They treat as like sh@t and Elizabeth is so hypocrite.Sorry,but that's the truth.I lost the count asking her the progress of the patches and everytime I was told the same:to rest assured that they were working on all of the problems and beside the only thing I had to do was to wait.Ok,I waited and after assuring me they were working on the patch and bringing this on like ''no patch anymore'' make me doubt they ever worked on a patch so Elizabeth :mad: knew how we are feeling for having a broken game.I don't care for that damn dlc but I would have liked to get from the game I bought the exerienced promissed.For everything this I won't trust Elizabeth anymore because she does have the fault for lying to me all this time.I trusted her.What kind of person is she anyway?Is she really capable selling her sould to those eveils of 2k just to get paid and doing what she's done to us.Sorry,I don't care if I got banned because this is s@it anyway :mad: .Hope your games will get pirated so that you go bankrupt. could throw this company to the garbage.The next time I buy a 2k game I'll maybe pirate it to see if it doserves to get bought.Have a nightmare night.Adios :mad:

[DoobiusMaximus]

congrats 2k, just went from near top of my gaming company list to bottom..enjoy the cellar with cryptic

[Kleetus]

She's just relaying a message, this was not her decision, this was not her call

Although she may not have made the decisions, she is part of the propaganda machine, and so shares some of the blame.

Every person in 2K who is, regardless of whether they actually make the decisions or not, has some ownership of this.

I have no time for people who are part of this deception and betrayal, yet who don't or won't accept their share of responsibility, or have the decency to simply admit they screwed up.

At the very least they should apologise so we can move on.

[cardboardvalise]

Although she may not have made the decisions, she is part of the propaganda machine, and so shares some of the blame.

Every person in 2K who is, regardless of whether they actually make the decisions or not, has some ownership of this.

I have no time for people who are part of this deception and betrayal, yet who don't or won't accept their share of responsibility, or have the decency to simply admit they screwed up.

At the very least they should apologise so we can move on.

i would like an apology but they don't seem interested in that.

maybe they could at least send us a coupon for bioshock infinite

hey hey look what i found on this page:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=158782244036

If you wish to contact 2K Games here are the details: Thanks to Roy Knight for providing the details.

Email - usa@take2support.com
Email- canada@take2support.com
Managing Director of 2K Games - christoph.hartmann@2kgames.com

Phone:
US - 1-866-219-9839
CA - 1-800-638-0127



president of 2k
christoph.hartmann@2kgames.com

[Rockn-Roll]

I don't think it's fair to blame Elizabeth or even the devs. I'm sure it was a management decision. I think 2K is looking at the cost of continued development on BS2 and decided that it wasn't worth spending the time to fix BS2 when the developers are supposed to be working on BS3. Remember that the other DLCs were already developed...it was apparently 2K's plan to complete developement of all content including DLCs before shipping the game...everything except for total game stoppage bugs. Obviously they have not changed their mind, and most likely will make the same decision for BS3.

So, the fail belongs to 2K management and not the support or dev teams.

[Monolithic]

I don't think it's fair to blame Elizabeth or even the devs. I'm sure it was a management decision. I think 2K is looking at the cost of continued development on BS2 and decided that it wasn't worth spending the time to fix BS2 when the developers are supposed to be working on BS3. Remember that the other DLCs were already developed...it was apparently 2K's plan to complete developement of all content including DLCs before shipping the game...everything except for total game stoppage bugs. Obviously they have not changed their mind, and most likely will make the same decision for BS3.

So, the fail belongs to 2K management and not the support or dev teams.

Bioshock Infinite has nothing to do with this... that game is being developed by Irrational Games (2K Boston), an entirely different developer.