Stories of lost sales due to SecuROM

[BostonLow]

Let's collect stories of lost sales of Bioshock due to its copy protection scheme, just for the heck of it if nothing else. If we're really lucky 2K will take notice. Post either your own personal experience (cancelled preorders, chargebacks, refunds, etc.) or of someone you know personally.

It's too late for me to get my money back - I bought it off steam unknowingly because their website failed to mention anything about SecuROM.
HOWEVER I managed to convince 2 people at work from buying the game by telling them about it. They completely agreed that game publishers' prevailing attitude of treating everyone guilty until proven innocent only hurts the legit customers, and the problem will worsen if we reinforced their belief by paying for their products.

[Kojak2k8]

I won't buy it because of secuROM and I know 3 others at work that won't buy it either. You would think that 2K would have learned from the Sony rootkit fiasco.

P.S. Looks like my thread I created about Rootkits not being the answer was deleted as well. :(

[SixtyWattMan]

I bought the limited edition and the game is awesome. My big daddy's drill tip was broken but instead of crying I just super glued it back on and it lined back up perfectly. Best game I've played since Half-Life 2.

[lastat811]

good game but secROM *fails* and the limited activation and stuff GEHNESS and active play*maked me want to take a shi^ on this game for that*

[Uranium - 235]

I bought the limited edition and the game is awesome. My big daddy's drill tip was broken but instead of crying I just super glued it back on and it lined back up perfectly. Best game I've played since Half-Life 2.

That's like saying a sandwich full of nails is the best thing you've eaten since the only other sandwich you've had was full of feces.

[Kyorisu]

Wow you guys musn't buy, well any games at all. Safedisc, Starforce, SecuRom, TAGES, iLok, etc

Surely you've bought other products that contain some sort of DRM?

[Kyorisu]

Hell Vista is full of DRM.

[elwood]

wow this is a difficult thread to answer............

Well, heres the thing I have a copy, I havent been able to play it because of there SM2 issues which I will not bring up on this thread :mad:

BUT I wiill say that I usually recommend games I like to mr brother and brother in law and they usually buy it for there kids all on my recommondation so I can say that until they work something out there is at least another 2 copies that are put on hold

[HRahn]

Safedisc - in most of its incarnations - is relatively harmless and does nothing apart from prolonging the start of the application.
Games with Starforce on it are not bought by me. Maybe I miss out on some great ones, but that´s life. Same goes for other crazy copy protection methods.

I hate steam, I cannot stand such a system on my PC. Yet it has one merit, atleast with valve´s games. Buy em once, install em an unlimited number of times on as many machines as you like. But only play them when you´re logged in.
It has that big, bad "what if valve is no more" caveat, but apart from that, it works (after it had its share of problems, too).

[Farkhat]

Hell Vista is full of DRM.


Life itself is full of DRM. Why anyone would start raising hell about this tiny registration thing is beyond me.

[badken]

I hate steam, I cannot stand such a system on my PC.

Why?


Yet it has one merit, atleast with valve´s games. Buy em once, install em an unlimited number of times on as many machines as you like. But only play them when you´re logged in.

There's a lot of misinformation about Steam out there, and you're spreading it.

You can install *any* Steam game anywhere, and you only have to log in once to install. After that, you can set Steam to "offline" mode and play even without an internet connection.

[lastat811]

Hell Vista is full of DRM.

lol im a vista ☺☺☺*and im hating every minuet*

[SixtyWattMan]

That's like saying a sandwich full of nails is the best thing you've eaten since the only other sandwich you've had was full of feces.

If you think HL2 is a bad game then just stop playing games. The source engine is one of the if not the best game engine out there right now especially for multiplayer games. I don't know if you are mentally retarded or just stupid but you need to seriously rethink your life.

P.S. I personally endorse Securom software.

[Gersen]

Well you can add me to the sales lost because of the retarded activation system. :mad:

I loved every second I passed on the demo and I think that Bioshock is potentially a great games, maybe not SS2 successor but at least Dark Messiah done right, and I had pre-ordered the limited edition and was even planing to buy the Steam version to be able to play while waiting for the other to ship.

But I canceled my pre-order as soon as I heard of the activation method, I don't want to give a single cents to support a company that use this kind of silly protection. I am very tired of games company that care more about pirates than they do for their customers.

And it's not because of Securom by itself, I am used to use no-cd/dvd crack on pretty much all the games I buy, it's because I find the whole limited activation thing to be pretty insulting for legit customers, heck I don't like Steam that much, but at least they have a much more customer friendly activation method.

I hope that in two or three months 2k will do the intelligent thing of removing completely Securom, or I will wait for it to end up in the bargain bin or be given for free with a magazine, in the mean time I will borrow a friend Xbox and play the game on it.

[radnan]

i will not buy this game allthough i dreamed of it since forever because of activation limit and securom (makes the product highly perishable .. like an expiring date) - i'll play it one way or the other on the xbox 360 if some friend picks it up

i'm sad :(

[greylantern]

Yep - lost sale due to a few issues. Most of the issues are being addressed but the main issues is the DRM/Malware and my refusal (even before Bioshock) to play ball with ridiculous practices such as this.

My unwrapped copy (came yesterday - UK) has upto 7 days to be sent back for full refund, now they have said they are working on a patch for other stuff that affected me i'm just waiting to see if they can sort the DRM out so I can install it. If they don't do it within my limit (or say they will do it) then I have no choice but to return the game and get my money back.

I really don't want to do that, I want the developers to get my money (no matter how 'small' it is in the scheme of things) as a thank you for supporting the PC with a good game.

[AnEternalEnigma]

A buddy of mine was about to buy it off Steam until I showed him all the SecuROM ☺☺☺☺. He quickly kept his money in his pocket.

[Uranium - 235]

If you think HL2 is a bad game then just stop playing games. The source engine is one of the if not the best game engine out there right now especially for multiplayer games.

Do you just say things you assume are true? Have you ever mapped or modded for Source? It's a completely trash engine. It's full of all kinds of absurd limitations and Valve has yet to release the new SDK which has been going on 'late' for about a year and a half now. And besides, how many original games are there for Source? There's barely any mods for it, and most of them nobody plays or aren't 'real' mods, and I can only think of one game that actually licensed the engine (Vampire: The Masquerade).

I suppose it's never occurred to you that HL2 had absolutely nothing innovative, groundbreaking, or interesting about it. The entire first 95% of the game was simply an extremely linear shooter, and the last 5% was simply spamming the physics gun. Strider battles? Those things looked so awesome before the game was released. And then it turns out a Strider battle was simply running back and forth from your box of infinite rockets. The story was utter trash, whatever story there actually was.

You like HL2? Sure, fine, but it simply means you're extremely tasteless, shallow, and small-minded. I could do with a good laugh, so go ahead and share with me what other insipid piles of crap you consider 'greatest games ever made'.

Maybe when you're done being a sheep to hype and marketing you can stop long enough to go play a game that isn't a ☺☺☺☺ing "name brand" for once in your sad little life. I guess any moron with a heap of store-bought electronics can call themselves a gamer these days.

[funkygibbons]

Hi 2k,

I see that the activations have been increased to 5. Just thought I'd let you know that this is still completely unacceptable and I will not be buying any 2k/Take2 games until this is resolved, and by resolved I mean removed.

I still haven't bought anything Sony since they proved their hatred for their customers either. Your hatred for your paying customers means that I won't be one any more. Well done.

Cheers,
Chris

[spank]

Do you just say things you assume are true? Have you ever mapped or modded for Source? It's a completely trash engine. It's full of all kinds of absurd limitations and Valve has yet to release the new SDK which has been going on 'late' for about a year and a half now. And besides, how many original games are there for Source? There's barely any mods for it, and most of them nobody plays or aren't 'real' mods, and I can only think of one game that actually licensed the engine (Vampire: The Masquerade).

I suppose it's never occurred to you that HL2 had absolutely nothing innovative, groundbreaking, or interesting about it. The entire first 95% of the game was simply an extremely linear shooter, and the last 5% was simply spamming the physics gun. Strider battles? Those things looked so awesome before the game was released. And then it turns out a Strider battle was simply running back and forth from your box of infinite rockets. The story was utter trash, whatever story there actually was.

You like HL2? Sure, fine, but it simply means you're extremely tasteless, shallow, and small-minded. I could do with a good laugh, so go ahead and share with me what other insipid piles of crap you consider 'greatest games ever made'.

Maybe when you're done being a sheep to hype and marketing you can stop long enough to go play a game that isn't a ☺☺☺☺ing "name brand" for once in your sad little life. I guess any moron with a heap of store-bought electronics can call themselves a gamer these days.

HL2 is one of the greatest digital peices of art ever created ......you dick.

[Darkmoor]

Me and some of my friends 5 - 6 of em where going to buy Bioshock but as we have now been informed about the SecuROM DRM Protection we wont. I nor will any of my friends support a company that punishes people who buy games. The people who pirate the game will still get cracks and such. We who buys it we becomes punished because of ignorance by the publishers.
DRM DONT HELP YOU!.

DRM protection will only get you on the list of bad publishers. I will not ever buy a game whit a DRM protection.

[Club Heaven]

Me and some of my friends 5 - 6 of em where going to buy Bioshock but as we have now been informed about the SecuROM DRM Protection we wont.

I'm the only one I know who buys games, my friends have pirated everything they ever played. I'm thinking they'll have more fun with Bioshock's cracked version than I'll have with my original. No headaches for them, stress and anger for me.
So what was it you tried to acomplish 2K ?

[voraugh]

I belong to a gaming group, we have almost 90 members, we have decided long ago, that we would as a group, boycott any such games, and the company who make the games which carry stuff like this. It first started for us with the Starfoce protection method which was going to be used on GTR2 (among others), which ended up being dropped by Simbin. Sure we play games that use protection, but with certain protection methods we choose to just not support either the game or the makers. With this game, the limitation on installs is total BS, absolutely pathetic.

We all run pirated Win XP Corparate version for our OS, which are fully updatable, and have clear consciences, as we all own legit copies of XP, it's just that we refuse to have to call Microsoft when ever we reinstall the OS just to activate it, that is just pathetic, as we like many other gamers/PC users, do regular reinstalls.

We realize that our actions will most likely not have any effect, because it would take a much larger concerted effort to have any effect on the developers/publishers, but it's all we can do. If everybody would band together we would have a chance, but that is likely not going to happen, and the developers/publishers know that, they know they can get away with it, and will continue to, until such a time as gamers stand up united and say no more!!

We support companies such as id Software, Epic etc, who have so far bypassed such forms of copy protection, but will not support companies who use such ridiculous things as this and install limitations etc.

But keep making noise, as it has worked in the past to some degree, Simbin dropping Starforce, others dropping it also etc.

United we stand, devided . . . ,well you know the rest.

[Agnus Déi]

Protections like this only scare people from buying it and in the end they will download it once its cracked.

[Joeyd999]

I *really* don't see what the big deal is. Irrational/2K spent years of hard labour, spent millions of dollars, hell Irrational lost their virginity to 2K JUST so they could make this gam properly. And they did, this game is honestly the greatest piece of digital cinema i've ever experienced, while remaining visceral and just plain fun. So 2K, just like every other game manufactuer out there, want to PROTECT their work and make sure the people who play the game, you know, paid for it.

If your so pissed about some little registry keys and a 3 minute (3 minutes! your going to waste 60 hours of your life playing this game, not to mention all the other nerdy time wasters we all partake in) resistration process, MAYBE you should look to all those people who torrent games and the ☺☺☺☺heads who crack them. THOSE are the people we have to blame for securerom and every other DRM that exists. But I digress, piracy will always be an issue. If you guys are unwilling to pay for a game simply because of an extra tiny inconvience during the installation process, you have your gaming priorities seriously backwards.

Even though no DRM is fool-proof and people will inevitably steal this game, I'm rooting for every possible fail-safe 2K has up their sleeve. The more people who are forced to buy this game, the more likely it is that we will see Bioshock 2 or an equally mind-blowing experience. And all you fan who aren't going to buy the game to "teach 2k a lesson", well you're only depriving yourself. They aren't goign to listen to the extremely small percentage of the population you people make up, statistically speaking you *will* not succeed.

If you dont believe me, make a patition and see how successful it is. I bought the game the day it was released, activated it as soon as I got home (all those activation issues could be overcome with simple PERSISTANCE since we all know those activation servers were simply overloaded), and have loved every errie second of the game since then. Enjoy NOT playing this game :rolleyes:.

And to that guy who dosen't like HL2, name a better game from that year. HL2 was an amazing experience, and with the difficulty mod you could hardly say that it was a mind-numbing experience.

As for mods, check out The Hidden: Source. One of the most insane multiplayer games I've ever experienced. And pretty creepy too.

[Joeyd999]

And oh yeah, how could you possibily want to legitamatly install the game on more than 5 systems??

[badken]

I *really* don't see what the big deal is. Irrational/2K spent years of hard labour, spent millions of dollars, hell Irrational lost their virginity to 2K JUST so they could make this gam properly. And they did, this game is honestly the greatest piece of digital cinema i've ever experienced, while remaining visceral and just plain fun. So 2K, just like every other game manufactuer out there, want to PROTECT their work and make sure the people who play the game, you know, paid for it.

The main problem I have with copy protection is the presumption of guilt. Copy protection inevitably fails--the only successful example is online multiplayer games where it's possible to block illegitemate copies from connecting. Copy protection only really protects software for a short while after release, and let's face it, the people who buy a piece of software right away would have bought it even if it was downloadable the day of release.

So, 2K has made their customers angry, they have increased the amount of tech support they have to deal with because of all the rumors, misinformation and actual problems with SecuROM, AND they have invested in something that will eventually fail. What I'd like to know is who is the genius who thought this was a good idea?

Whoever that was needs to pick up the phone and call his counterpart at THQ, who have made buckets of cash with Dawn of War and Company of Heroes, neither of which have obnoxious copy protection methods. THQ clearly respects its customers, and they profit by it.

[HomerSimpson]

Ok genius, explain how Oblivion was the best selling game of 2006 (after Sims and WoW, which no-one is going to outsell) when it didn't have the wonderful DRM protection so vital to protecting their precious code?

Guess what? I bought Oblivion, but I'm not going to buy Bioshock. Same reason I bought Doom 3, but not Half Life 2.

[AcE]

I have dl many games but this game is way worthy of your hard earn bucks
just buy it and enjoy it

[Joeyd999]

Ok genius, explain how Oblivion was the best selling game of 2006 (after Sims and WoW, which no-one is going to outsell) when it didn't have the wonderful DRM protection so vital to protecting their precious code?

Guess what? I bought Oblivion, but I'm not going to buy Bioshock. Same reason I bought Doom 3, but not Half Life 2.

"Genius", thanks ;) .

Go ahead, I didn't care much for Oblivion anyways but that is a personal taste thing. But I still think your depriving yourself for not buying Bioshock. And if your not going to buy it why the hell are you hanging arround these forums anyways?

As for the previous poster, I can understand why it IS a little insulting to be presumed to be a pirate, but I guess they kind of have to. Similarly to the way movies make money at the box office, I can't help but think that deterring pirates for the first few weeks of sales helps them out a lot. Keep in mind that most consumers arent playing with 3000 dollar rigs and are as tech savvy as us, they have no idea what a rootkit is and coulden't care less, much less get a crack functioning properly. They would just prefer to buy the game and have no headaches.

[Dokteur Kill]

Not buying it, and I'm boycotting 2K Games as a publisher until they remove it from Bioshock and decide not to use it in future titles.

I had also decided to buy Civilization IV: Beyond the Sword, but will now hold off on that purchase until Bioshock and all other 2K titles are released free of SecuROM and similar intrusive copy protection schemes (I'm looking at you, StarForce).

[briski]

I've been looking forward to Bioshock for the past year... but in good conscience I can't let my money back this SecuROM DRM scheme.

This comes from somebody who bought Thief 1 and Thief 2, and Deus Ex (not Looking Glass, but it has the Spector tie-in) and I love them all. Heck, I even went to college with someone who later worked at Looking Glass software. I registered on this forum just so I could let the Irrational Games/2K Games folks know how disappointed I am in the corporate decision to cripple Bioshock with draconian DRM.

Interestingly, my decision not to buy Bioshock also affects Nvidia (I would've had to upgrade my GeForce FX 5900 XT... not anymore), and Microsoft (I would've had to upgrade from 2000 to XP... not anymore). That's somewhere between $200 and $350 all totaled that I get to spend on something else.

I'm disappointed that 2K Games had it come to this. My wife is pretty happy about the turn of events, though. She's hoping every software game manufacturer follows Bioshock's lead...

[BooDaddy]

I too will not be buying BioShock. I was really looking forward to buying this game. Due to my work schedule I was going to pick it up this saturday (8-25-07) but after reading all this mess about SecurROM, I have decided to NOT purchase either the PC version or the Xbox 360 version.

If 2K games decides to remove the rootkit crap, I will be in line ready to drop my cash on a copy, but until then, I wont support a company that uses such malicous copy protection.

[toto952]

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff4/toto952/bioflopactivation.png

[Snugglepuss]

Its such a shame that many people wont be playing Bioshock because of this :(

2K really seemed to have dropped the ball here after creating such a wonderful game, has the copy protection stopped the pirates? So far it has yes, but loads of people seem to be abandoning the game so I guess it wasnt worth it

I could harp on about how secuROM doesnt affect your PC in anyway, but Ive already gone on about it enough :)

If you have an Xbox 360, buy this game now, trust me, its woth it ;)

[Potential_Customer]

Even though i really want to play Bioshock and support the developers for their hard work i will have to wait until a version is released without Securom (or similar malware).

I am boycotting not only Bioshock but all 2K games and any game that includes the intrusive, insulting malware known as 'Securom'.

I installed (and enjoyed) the Bioshock demo until blue-screen crashes and weird sytem behaviour made me search for a possible cause or fix. That's when i found out that your demo had stealthily infested my machine with rootkit-style DRM (Which seems to be the cause of the problems).

Thankyou for treating me like a criminal. Thankyou for poisoning all of the goodwill and positive spin this title had generated. Thankyou for turning what should have been a shining example of what the PC is capable of into another boost for consoles. Thankyou for making a good reason to support developers another excuse for piracy.

http://xs218.xs.to/xs218/07345/sig_bioshock.jpg

[greylantern]

I think generally for legitimate PC users out there, year on the year the message is ever more becoming (amongst the gaming culture)

"Buy the software that doesn't annoy you with it's DRM, pirate the software that does"

As that 'message' becomes more and more commonly thought of as morally correct (which it isn't btw; you should always PAY for a company's product or don't play at all) then more and more people will turn to piracy, worst is the fact that piracy has gone from a shady underground taboo to everyday vocabulary for every gamer (on consoles or PCs).

Even game mags and blogs nowadays 'advertise' the fact that pirate games exist under the form of news "blah de blah was cracked today!", which increasing turns people who didn't know about piracy and getting things 'for free' into seeking out methods to procure software for nowt.

That is why *I* hate over bearing DRM because it causes ☺☺☺☺ storms like this one which has the side effect of advertising piracy which makes the next round of DRM even stronger. It's a never ending circle and someone has got to take the mature first move and it's never going to be the cracking groups or the pirates.

The companies that released games with subtle anti piracy (Oblivion is a great example) are sending out the message 'we trust you to believe in our product and to want to pay for it'. I'm not saying it wasn't pirated, but it didn't ADVERTISE the fact that you should seek out a 'better way' of living with the software due to DRM that doesn't work or is too intrusive.

I make software myself and I don't condone piracy, and something is going to have to be done to change this casual attitude towards it back into a 'taboo' subject and that is not through putting amazingly distasteful anti piracy methods on your products.

Yes it wouldn't suprise me if this really was about selling 2nd hand games (like Sony tried to stop rentals and all the stuff) and top stop people just passing it around between friends.

The problem is it doesn't ever stop THOSE who wanted to do it anyway. Eventually it's cracked and they do it - they don't go out and buy a copy if they didn't want to anyway and CERTAINLY not because you put crap DRM on it. If anything they avoid it more, unfortunately so do paying customers who won't accept it.

[scarcus]

I bought the PC limited edition and the 360 version of Bioshock and love the game. Great job 2K and even greater job on your protection scheme. The pirates are a cryin'. haha.

[cuber3]

I bought the PC limited edition and the 360 version of Bioshock and love the game. Great job 2K and even greater job on your protection scheme. The pirates are a cryin'. haha.

Sorry, but you're extremely naive.
SecuROM has never stopped pirates.
Not in the past, not now, not in the future.
I can guarantee you that pirates worldwide will be playing this game in a few days from now.
I'm a dedicated pirate, but I have ordered this game.
I like the limited edition, and you get lots of goodies for a relatively cheap price.
Hell, the game itself is well worth the cash, so yeah.
I don't care about the protection that much, but I certainly don't support it.
It's just making it harder for the consumer to get it running, whereas the pirates will be playing it free of any worries.

The point is, no matter which crappy protection you put on a game, nothing will ever stop pirates from getting their hands on it.
So stop putting lame DRM on your games, and make it more consumer-friendly.

[HomerSimpson]

I bought the PC limited edition and the 360 version of Bioshock and love the game. Great job 2K and even greater job on your protection scheme. The pirates are a cryin'. haha.

You bought two copies?

I guess that's your impartiality out of the window then?

By the way genius, read the forums, I'll say this slowly because I can see you're not very bright:

PLENTY OF PAYING CUSTOMERS ARE UNHAPPY

[Soloux]

Hi 2k,

I see that the activations have been increased to 5. Just thought I'd let you know that this is still completely unacceptable and I will not be buying any 2k/Take2 games until this is resolved, and by resolved I mean removed.

I still haven't bought anything Sony since they proved their hatred for their customers either. Your hatred for your paying customers means that I won't be one any more. Well done.

Cheers,
Chris

I would add - HL2 engine draging still (!!!!!!) all junk from HL 1 engine. HL2 have NO REAL SHADOW on the textures - they are already with "painted" light on it. That's an old (modified) Quake 1 engine with a LOT of modifications. And for all others wizards for games - HL2 is NOT so good game, just a lot of fus before and after the release. You want to know about the engine? Go adn see Doom3, Quake 4 and now the new Rage engine od id Software. Than we can talk about engine.

P.S. Sorry if this is a bit out of topic

[Soloux]

Do you just say things you assume are true? Have you ever mapped or modded for Source? It's a completely trash engine. It's full of all kinds of absurd limitations and Valve has yet to release the new SDK which has been going on 'late' for about a year and a half now. And besides, how many original games are there for Source? There's barely any mods for it, and most of them nobody plays or aren't 'real' mods, and I can only think of one game that actually licensed the engine (Vampire: The Masquerade).

I suppose it's never occurred to you that HL2 had absolutely nothing innovative, groundbreaking, or interesting about it. The entire first 95% of the game was simply an extremely linear shooter, and the last 5% was simply spamming the physics gun. Strider battles? Those things looked so awesome before the game was released. And then it turns out a Strider battle was simply running back and forth from your box of infinite rockets. The story was utter trash, whatever story there actually was.

You like HL2? Sure, fine, but it simply means you're extremely tasteless, shallow, and small-minded. I could do with a good laugh, so go ahead and share with me what other insipid piles of crap you consider 'greatest games ever made'.

Maybe when you're done being a sheep to hype and marketing you can stop long enough to go play a game that isn't a ☺☺☺☺ing "name brand" for once in your sad little life. I guess any moron with a heap of store-bought electronics can call themselves a gamer these days.


SORRY for the wrong quote

I would add - HL2 engine draging still (!!!!!!) all junk from HL 1 engine. HL2 have NO REAL SHADOW on the textures - they are already with "painted" light on it. That's an old (modified) Quake 1 engine with a LOT of modifications. And for all others wizards for games - HL2 is NOT so good game, just a lot of fus before and after the release. You want to know about the engine? Go adn see Doom3, Quake 4 and now the new Rage engine od id Software. Than we can talk about engine.

P.S. Sorry if this is a bit out of topic

[jonglover]

I bought the PC limited edition and the 360 version of Bioshock and love the game. Great job 2K and even greater job on your protection scheme. The pirates are a cryin'. haha.

No pirates have been stopped, genius.:rolleyes:

Anyway, here are some comments from message boards I frequent (I'm not purchasing the game either, by the way):

Lost Customer #1:

"Total respect for the few decent human beings left who make software and don't think they can manage my rights. The phrase is deeply Orwellian.

It's not as bad as this and it's not as bad now as it was when it started, but it's still terrible. I bought HL2 and wanted to play Episode 1, but the drm was so obnoxious that I just downloaded a rip. When the rip was extremely unstable, I just gave up on the whole mess. Very few games are Steam exclusive, and so far, none of them are good enough to warrant slogging through that ☺☺☺☺."

Lost Customer #2:

"It is pretty bad, the copy protection. You have to be connected to the internet both when you install the game and uninstall it, and if you forget, tough luck, no more installs for you. Of course, you can wait half an hour to speak to an Indian customer rep who may or may not understand you. And if I'm reading what others are saying on their forum correctly, if you change your system specs, you will have to reinstall the game. So if you decide to upgrade your memory, change motherboard, etc., you have to go through the whole damn process. I'd rather not pay $50 to jump through hoops just to play a damn game."

Lost Customer #3 (this guy has SecuROM confused with whatever the trash was Gal Civ II was installed with, not that it really makes any difference):

"IMO the reason NOT to buy the PC version is because the DRM is by SecuRom, the DEVIL of DRM. They strongarm developers into using their DRM, and if they refuse to they post up links to downloadable pirated versions of their software."

Three people. Not that many, right? The thing is: those posts are from a message board that has absolutely nothing to do with gaming or even nerdy endeavors. These are "normal" (well, as normal as a gamer can get) people stating that they're not purchasing this game because of the malware trash that's installed on the disc. If you go to a message board such as 1Up or NeoGAF (which is the industry's message board), there are hundreds of people saying that they now refuse to purchase the game. Add those numbers up 2K. Think about all the casuals who are getting news of your misdeeds from the likes of G4 TV and all the hardcore gamers sitting on various packed message boards around the internet that now refuse to buy this game. I hope your mistreatment of your customers was worth it.

[greylantern]

Solux I actually agree there about HL2. I often used it around it to point out how user friendly it is concerning the 'ol widescreen but that is not to overate it. It does many things very well including an incredibly bleak atmosphere and has some stunning texture usage. Story wise I've never got that into the whole thing too deeply as it's swarming with overzealous fanboys who think it was written by a best selling author.

HL2 has (had) many flaws, but it wasn't quite so flawed in minor technicalities as Bioshock is even though Bioshock is attempting to bring more creativy and depth to the table of FPS.

Anyway, yeah HL2 and Bioshock were both overhyped before release and imo both have suffered from that from a players perspective, but I DO still play HL2 often (reinstalling it no problem) Bioshock doesn't give that security with it's off kilter set up routine (Steam was bad enough - this is worse).

I decided I'd had enough of waiting to send it back or not and now we got took seriously on the WS issue and there is hope for activation removal I decided to install it (had already used demo so 'malware' was on my system anyway) When i've finished it will uninstall properly and then reformat my system to remove securom (handy :rolleyes: ) and not touch Bioshock again until it's DRM is sorted out.

RE your Id engine comment, I agree mate - i'm still blown away by that engine in games like Prey regardless of 'gameplay' issues it just feels so solid and immersive.

Mainly im a big Unreal Engine Fanboy at heart (Unreal games mainly) but UE3 has been dissapointing me a bit based on almost every game that has used it so far. Tech 5 and Cryengine 2 can't come soon enough in my opinion.

As for source? It can go to hell but Valve are a good company so I hope they make a new engine that keeps up with the tech.

[Soloux]

HL2 has (had) many flaws, but it wasn't quite so flawed in minor technicalities as Bioshock is even though Bioshock is attempting to bring more creativy and depth to the table of FPS.

Anyway, yeah HL2 and Bioshock were both overhyped before release and imo both have suffered from that from a players perspective, but I DO still play HL2 often (reinstalling it no problem) Bioshock doesn't give that security with it's off kilter set up routine (Steam was bad enough - this is worse).

RE your Id engine comment, I agree mate - i'm still blown away by that engine in games like Prey regardless of 'gameplay' issues it just feels so solid and immersive.

Mainly im a big Unreal Engine Fanboy at heart (Unreal games mainly) but UE3 has been dissapointing me a bit based on almost every game that has used it so far. Tech 5 and Cryengine 2 can't come soon enough in my opinion.

As for source? It can go to hell but Valve are a good company so I hope they make a new engine that keeps up with the tech.

I agree. I mention that cause the talk abot HL2 is "the best" game like some other said. But it is not!
Bioshock is a gema with a lot of "love" during the making the game and the final product and it is so sad that there is a big possibility to all go down cause of that stupid decesion to protect the game with such a rubish and bad policy of activation.
It was 10-years-old-micrsoft-try-and-fall. It is sad to see that 2k did not learn from the past.

I also canceled the game and I wayt this to be solved but my friend have it and now he is so pised off. I can understand that and I fell sorry for him and many others on this forum.

Steam was borring untill I activated the game but after that you can be "free" in a way.
This limitation with Bioshock instalations is overkill for hardcore gamers.

[Sierra Oscar]

Dont think it will affect them that much tbh...

Test!

[impar]

Greetings!

My Bioshock story.

I have been following Bioshock development for the last year or so. Not too closely but enough to be up to date on it. The usual screenshots, videos and interviews.

I heard the demo had been released, downloaded it, installed and played.
Liked the demo. It had a nice environment, looked to be an entertaining story although lacked a bit on the graphical side (textures were poor).
So, phoned the game store and asked to reserve the game.
Then, while browsing these forums found out you could only install it twice. So, if my hard drive failed, my OS got corrupted or (this one was main concern) if I format the hard drive without unisntalling the game I am losing one of those allowed installations.
So, phoned the game store and asked to un-reserve the game.
Later found out that 2K was increasing the installations to a "5x5" plan. It is less than ideal but an improvement. Replayed the demo and still liked it.
So, phoned the game store and asked to re-reserve the game.
Of course, it was then that I knew the Sony rootkit was being used. I dont buy games that have it.
So, phoned the game store and asked to un-reserve the game. Again.
This is where I am now.

Bioshock could have been a great game, probably is, but I will never find out.
Or, I will find out how good it is but 2K will not get my money...

[baggz]

I am a pretty avid gamer, I buy about 16 to 24 games a year. Bioshock won't be the first game I didn't buy because of Securrom or StarRom, and I'm sure it won't be the last. This is just obnoxious, I have a 360, a wii, and a box with a 7800 gtx 512 in it (I know, it's a little outdated).

Back to the point, I was going to buy the game for the Computer, because given a choice in shooters, I'd rather play it on the computer than on the XBox. I'm not going to buy it for the XBox primarily because of spite. I figure if I can't play it on the platform I want, I'm not going to play it at all. I'm not going to put the security of my box at risk to play a stupid game (not that this game is stupid, I was quite looking forward to it). Anyway, I will not be buying this game or any other 2kgames titles, namely the new football game (XBox)and I was going to buy Darkness for the (XBox).

Also, I convinced my 2 brothers not to buy it (although one might rent it), he convinced two of his friends, and I have also been warning people in online games, in which they too may be spreading the news and posting on forums.

Bethesda Softworks with Oblivion had it right, no DRM what so ever and look how many titles they sold across multiple platforms. I had no problems buying that game what so ever, as soon as it came out, knowing there was no DRM, I bought it the first day. If I know a game has DRM on it, I wait to see what the issues are with it, and if they're not too bad, I "might" buy it.

Anyway, good luck, you lost a customer that has a lot of buying potential, many friends with a lot of buying potential, and a very big mouth... But hey, if I have a net effect of 2000 lost sales (through the pyramid effect of good ol' fashioned word of mouth) for you all by myself, at least they're not pirating it, right?