Expansion Leaders!

[Crext]

My question is, who would you like to see in the expansions?

These are the following leaders in the first game. (I'm copying from another topic):

-America Geroge Washington
-Arabia Harun Al-Rashid
-Aztec Montezuma
-China Wu Zeitein
-Egypt Ramesses
-England Elizabeth (Great naval power. Tries to conquest the ocean)
-France Napoleon (Creates many units to conquer trought land)
-Germany Otto Von Bismark (Will maximize the industrial put of germany)
-Greece Alexander the Great
-Incas ??
-India Gandhi (Emphatizes city growth)
-Japan Oba Nobunaga
-Mongolia Genghis Khan
-Ottomans Suleiman
-Rome Augustus Caesar
-Russia Catherine (Emphatizes city expansion)
-Songhai Asika (Emphatises city conquest)

Personally I was a little disappointed that there was no Vikings in the first part, seeing as the intro had them and all, so naturally I would like to see them, with any leader really. (there are alot to chose from.) Eirik the Red, Harald Hårfagre, Olav the Holy, Leiv Eriksson, etc, etc.

Also, I was disappointed with the few number of "bad guys", and I know this may not be universial views on who are bad, but I for one would very much like to see Josef Stalin, Mao Zedong, Ivan the Cruel, Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini, Emperor Hirohito. They've had Stalin, Ivan and Zedong in previeus games I believe, but they have yet to implement any fascist leaders, which is odd, considering they have fascism as a possible tech and build if I don't remember wrongly. Hitler especially would be a good representation to fill this vacuum.

Furder more, I would like to see eider David, Solomon or Saul as leaders of Israel, the United Monarchy, pref. David, as he is the most known biblical figure and a person known historically by the common man.

I also would like to see some more female leaders, not out of the historical sence, but more because they somehow cut the curves over how "manly" this game is. You have Queen Margrete I (1353-1412), who united Scandianivia under one rule during her time, which could be added as a extra leader to the vikings, even though they were'nt really viking any longer by that time. Saint Hedwig, Queen of Poland, (apparently quite a beauty on the eye and made Saint by Pope Johannes Paul II.) Mother Theresa (No furder explanation needed) Jannea d'Arch of France. Isabella of Spain. It is always funny to have a good looking female "partner" by your side as you conquer the world, it somehow makes the experience more enjoyable, but I guess that is just my subconsious mind wanting me to be surrounded by pritty girls... ^^

So, again, who would you want to be included?
Please bring a short explanation, nationality and any other details for your pick! :)

[Crext]

Oh, and William Wallace of Scotland would be cool too! :)

[marcelbutkis]

Personally, I think Spain (Isabella being by far the most logical leader) gets robbed if it isn't in there. Spanish is the 2nd-most common native language, 3rd-most common known, and there are 21 countries that speak it. Spain conquered, at one point, over half of the western hemisphere while at the same time maintaining an army in Europe that, for a century, never lost a major battle. They revolutionized warfare (see the tercio), introduced the production of paper in Europe, and were a major crossroads between Africa and Europe throughout history.

In Roman times, they were a very resource-rich battleground between Rome and Carthage, and as Rome declined, they became one of the most well-developed and wealthy regions in Europe. Cordoba, the capital of the Muslim state of Al-Andalus, was at one point the largest, richest, and most developed city in western Europe (as in counting Iberia, France, England, Italy, Germany, Netherlands, etc.). Santiago de Compostela was at one point the most popular pilgrimage destination in Christendom (ahead of Rome, Turin, Constantinople, Bethlehem, and Jerusalem). They shared a king with Austria who was also Holy Roman Emperor, and the most powerful man in the western world. Spain explored and conquered most of the New World, and some of the East. The Pope granted them, in the Treaty of Tordesillas, the right to half of the world at one point. You may have heard that in the Victorian age, "The sun never sets on the British Empire"...they said that about the Spanish Empire first. They were instrumental in most major European wars until the late 1800s, and are emerging again as a wealthy and powerful nation.

Now, why do they not deserve to be there?

[Iván de España]

Nice post, Marcelbutkis. Finally, someone more knows about History. :)

[DirtySock7]

I'd be impressed to see extra leaders for the existing civs.
America-Lincoln
Arabia-Saladin
Japan-Tokugawa
Egypt-Tutankhamen
Russia-Ivan IV
China-Kangxi
England-Winston Churchill
Aztec-Cuatemhoc
Greece-Pericles

[SlickSlicer]

Incans aren't in the game.

But otherwise I agree with a lot of the first post. I think this game deserves evil leaders and wouldn't mind Hitler at all myself, despite the controversy.

[Israelite76]

Here are some alternative leaders for the new Civ V game or the expansion pack(s):

America: Washington, Teddy Roosevelt, Reagan
Egypt: Cleopatra
England: Churchill, Henry II, Henry V, Henry VIII, Victoria
France: Louis XIV, Richlieu, Hugh Capet
Germany: Hitler (just to play against this c&*t would be awesome), Frederick II, Kaiser Wilhelm I
Greece: Leonidis, Phillip II
India: Nehru
Rome: Hadrian, Julius Caesar, Constantine
Russia: Lenin, Peter the Great, Stalin

[Greene55]

Here are some alternative leaders for the new Civ V game or the expansion pack(s):

America: Washington, Teddy Roosevelt, Reagan
Egypt: Cleopatra
England: Churchill, Henry II, Henry V, Henry VIII, Victoria
France: Louis XIV, Richlieu, Hugh Capet
Germany: Hitler (just to play against this c&*t would be awesome), Frederick II, Kaiser Wilhelm I
Greece: Leonidis, Phillip II
India: Nehru
Rome: Hadrian, Julius Caesar, Constantine
Russia: Lenin, Peter the Great, Stalin

You Basically listed alot of the leaders from CiV 4, Nehru would be great for India and Teddy Roosevelt for America though i don't play them. Isn't Phillip II Macedonian and not Greek?

[Black Gate of Mordor]

You Basically listed alot of the leaders from CiV 4, Nehru would be great for India and Teddy Roosevelt for America though i don't play them. Isn't Phillip II Macedonian and not Greek?

Alexander the Great was Macedonian, and he's still the leader of Greece.

Also, there is only going to be one leader for each civ. I can't remember where it was, but John Shafer said that they only had one leader, so they could capture the spirit of that civilization. There are no alternate leaders.

[Israelite76]

Alexander the Great was Macedonian, and he's still the leader of Greece.

Also, there is only going to be one leader for each civ. I can't remember where it was, but John Shafer said that they only had one leader, so they could capture the spirit of that civilization. There are no alternate leaders.

Won't there be alternate leaders in the expansion pack?

You answered the question exactly, if Alexander is Greek then so must his father be, Philip II, both Kings of Macedonia.

[Israelite76]

You Basically listed alot of the leaders from CiV 4, Nehru would be great for India and Teddy Roosevelt for America though i don't play them. Isn't Phillip II Macedonian and not Greek?

9 were the same but 15 weren't :)

[belomeclone]

Macedonia was a Greek civilization. I don't understand the confusion going on here. They were Greeks, like the Byzantine Empire.

You don't need to have your civilization name be the name of your ethnicity.

Go on and read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia_%28ancient_kingdom%29#Involvement_in_the _Greek_world

Now, for contrast, the current-day country of Macedonia is not Greek. There is no room here for the argument over this country, but that is the jist of it.

[Akar]

Incans aren't in the game.

But otherwise I agree with a lot of the first post. I think this game deserves evil leaders and wouldn't mind Hitler at all myself, despite the controversy.

2k should do it just for the lulz and hate mail

[Little Khan]

i would love to see more exotic empires:

the hunnic empire with Attila the Hun

the kalmar union with Margaret I

inca and Maya

[belomeclone]

i would love to see more exotic empires:

the hunnic empire with Attila the Hun

the kalmar union with Margaret I

inca and Maya

Looks like someone has been watching that Gerald Butler miniseries Atilla too much. Of all the exotic examples in the world, that one is not. And I would contend it's status as an empire as it existed for 22 years and I highly doubt they actively built any cities or public works. Or used cities. Poor choice for a city-building game.

[danangleland]

I think it would be funny to have George Bush Jr in for America as an alternative to Washington. They could include plenty of his made up words and gaffes, it would be hilarious! I doubt he's short of cash in real life, but who knows, could they get him to do the voice over and be animated for a big bundle of cash?:) 'We are making a pre-emperative strike against Babylonistan to effect regime change and remove their bowmen of mass destruction!'

[EnigmaCode]

Looks like someone has been watching that Gerald Butler miniseries Atilla too much. Of all the exotic examples in the world, that one is not. And I would contend it's status as an empire as it existed for 22 years and I highly doubt they actively built any cities or public works. Or used cities. Poor choice for a city-building game.

I have to somewhat disagree with that; here's what I mean. The Hunnic Empire could be a civ in Civ. I'm sure they built a few cities at their height; however, as I haven't read much on the Hunnic Empire, I can't name any.

Their empire lasted for significantly more than 22 years if I'm not mistaken. In fact the Hunnic Empire lasted from 370-469. However, those 22 years were the height of the Hunnic Empire, after which a slow decline ensued.

I see the Huns as being represented by perhaps a city state (they were based in Hungary) or just barbarians altogether. They pillaged many villages and although they did acheive an empire, I don't think that it warrants inclusion as a civ.

[belomeclone]

I have to somewhat disagree with that; here's what I mean. The Hunnic Empire could be a civ in Civ. I'm sure they built a few cities at their height; however, as I haven't read much on the Hunnic Empire, I can't name any.

Their empire lasted for significantly more than 22 years if I'm not mistaken. In fact the Hunnic Empire lasted from 370-469. However, those 22 years were the height of the Hunnic Empire, after which a slow decline ensued.

I see the Huns as being represented by perhaps a city state (they were based in Hungary) or just barbarians altogether. They pillaged many villages and although they did acheive an empire, I don't think that it warrants inclusion as a civ.

They didn't achieve an "Empire." They were barbarians. They didn't establish administration, cities, capitals, diplomacy, literacy, walls, anything we equate civilization and especially "Empire" with. They ruled a large territory that, I am sure as soon as they moved on from one spot, returned back to its previous owners with no one to control it.

Compare it to the Mongol Empire - a real system of government and ordinance despite the "Barbarian horde" label. They would be best represented in Civ as a Barbarian tribe, although in my Civ world, barbarian tribes would have the ability to become civs if left unchecked for so long. I feel City-States should as well, though I will need to play the game to fully understand their purpose (to me, they seem to just be barbarian states I can converse with and will just take over anyway.)

[SlickSlicer]

I agree with belome to be honest. I prefer the Mongols to the Huns.

The Xiongnu (sometimes erroneously also called Huns) are another possible steppe option. They had much better leaders than the Huns and lasted for longer. They were basically the most significant enemy of the Han dynasty, equivalent to Carthage as enemies of Rome's.

In the end though, I feel like this is all kind of redundant, and they should just stick with the Mongols to represent the steppe.

[DEADLY9996]

hmm Mongols where a tribal based people, until Temujin united them, but it was still a nation, a civilization, but because they wern't as advanced as others (well classed that way) they were considered barbarians.
Until they conquered :)

Actually the Huns conquered a fair bit, if you don't call that an empire, what is? The people were under Hun military rule.

Not much difference between them and mongols, both nomadic peoples, the major difference is Temujin as he governed his Empire quite well, as for Huns, i don't know i wasn't around in 400BC :P

Still there has been many nations/civilizations, some small, some huge, we can't include them all into the game, so picking the major empires over the past 3-4000 years, will do for me :)

[SlickSlicer]

Genghis Khan did more than just conquer. He furnished his people with a clear law code for example.

[Onandoga]

Ghengis also holds the title of "Best Ladies Man" seing as .5% of the world can trace their lineage to him.:D

@Slickslicer, If im not mistaken the Xiongu were one of four barbaric tribes to join into the Hun's Golden age along with the Schythians and some other tribe whose name escapes me.

And idk if you can make Cuatemoc an alternative ruler for the Aztecs since he didnt have to long to make much of an impact on the Aztecs. (even tho he drove out the conquistadores for a time.)

[DEADLY9996]

Genghis Khan did more than just conquer. He furnished his people with a clear law code for example.

Yeah but what is he truly known for?

War, Conquest And utter brutality too those that opposed him, but we are basing it on the nation not just the leader, and as a nation they were the same... nomadic, horse riding peoples, born into warfare.

But yes i know a little about Genghis Khan, i know he was also a good ruler, but after he died, the mongol empire broke up. Still survived in different ways, but wasn't the same.

Yes i would prefer to have Mongols on than most others, but i'm just saying there isn't that much of a difference as a nation between those and others i.e Huns.

But i don't mind if huns are added or not, just providing a different point of view :P

[Onandoga]

Wait... So kublai khan didnt rule over Genghis' mongol empire? He didnt meet marco polo? And didnt wage several military campaigns, including Japan. And his campaign didnt lead to the legend of the Divine Wind? Dam. I thot it ended when the Ming dynasty finally retook china.

Guess my memory just sucks, doesnt it?

[belomeclone]

Yeah but what is he truly known for?

If you asked my grandfather, he'd tell you he was best known for how safe his empire was. Whenever Genghis Khan is brought up, he'll mention how a girl could walk from one end of the empire to the other safely without an escort.

So what is your definition of "truly" known for? Besides that, people who are great generals are not known for killing people, they're known for tactical brilliance.

[SlickSlicer]

Yeah but what is he truly known for?

War, Conquest And utter brutality too those that opposed him, but we are basing it on the nation not just the leader, and as a nation they were the same... nomadic, horse riding peoples, born into warfare.

But yes i know a little about Genghis Khan, i know he was also a good ruler, but after he died, the mongol empire broke up. Still survived in different ways, but wasn't the same.

Yes i would prefer to have Mongols on than most others, but i'm just saying there isn't that much of a difference as a nation between those and others i.e Huns.

But i don't mind if huns are added or not, just providing a different point of view :P

He is known for being a unifier of his people, creating order, transforming his people from disparate tribes into a civilization, and being the most ruthless bastard the world has ever seen towards his enemies.

He was a huge *******, but to his own people he was a godsend.

[DEADLY9996]

Wait... So kublai khan didnt rule over Genghis' mongol empire? He didnt meet marco polo? And didnt wage several military campaigns, including Japan. And his campaign didnt lead to the legend of the Divine Wind? Dam. I thot it ended when the Ming dynasty finally retook china.

Guess my memory just sucks, doesnt it?

It was split up between his sons, atleast the army was, Kublai didn't take full control.


But anyways i ain't wanting a *****ing contest of who knows more :p, But the first thing that comes to my mind when i think of Genghis Khan is a Conquerer, a brutal one at that. :)

[SlickSlicer]

It was split up between his sons, atleast the army was, Kublai didn't take full control.


But anyways i ain't wanting a *****ing contest of who knows more :p, But the first thing that comes to my mind when i think of Genghis Khan is a Conquerer, a brutal one at that. :)

That is fair, and I actually think it is a pretty common view, if not the most common. I personally think the Mongols were horrible rulers that were more devastating to the world than positive. The Mongol people themselves, as well as the Turk administrators they often employed, though, obviously benefited enormously from the reigns of Genghis Khan, etc. As ruthless as Genghis Khan was, he did a great deal of good for his own people.