Philosophy in full gear, Bio2 will be Great

[Beaten with a Rock]

I just recently listened to the newest podcast (9) from the Cult of Rapture, and I can now say, without a doubt, that I will love this game. Everything I heard from the podcast just reminded me more and more about how much I loved the ideology and philosophy from the first game, and Jordan Thomas practically spoke out to me and said "It's back, and potentially better".

This right here is a quote that Jordan Thomas portrayed from Sophia Lamb, a gem that he left until the end of the podcast, and let me tell you- it's just what I've been waiting to hear from this game: "Utopia is not a place, but a people, and only by resisting the most inherent flaw in your own architecture can you ever be fit to occupy it."

I played BioShock for a lot of reasons. The action, the tactics, the science, the city... but something I never realized I would love so much UNTIL I'd already beaten it was the social interactions and politics that were so prominent the first time around. So for those of you who were touched by the first game's, rest assured, the philosophy here is in full gear. BioShock 2 will be great.

[hatrox]

I also loved the philosophical aspect of the first game. If you haven't read Atlas Shrugged I strongly suggest you read it. Andrew Ryan's actions are heavily influenced by John Galt from the novel, and if you like his ideas you will love the book.

[HarriS 185]

Whoo! Bioshock 2 is going to be the best game of 2010

[Beaten with a Rock]

Atlas Shrugged was a masterpiece! I loved Ayn Rand's philosophical footprint that you lived in throughout Rapture. Now throw some electric buck, splicers and explosions into the mix, and BioShock 2 will be just as great! ^_^

[panda rave]

It does make you wonder where the future of bioshock lies.
The most obvious route to take from objectivism is altruism as they are polar opposites but what next?
Existentialism or pragmatism make the most sense to me but I still don't see a John Dewey-esque figure appearing in rapture...:confused:

[hatrox]

It does make you wonder where the future of bioshock lies.
The most obvious route to take from objectivism is altruism as they are polar opposites but what next?
That's a good question. Anarchism perhaps? :D

[panda rave]

That's a good question. Anarchism perhaps? :D
Most people misunderstand anarchism, for the individual communities to successfully protect their own interest there must be some order to begin with.
it doesn't happen by default nor can it simply be introduced, but in all honesty I know very little about the subject so i couldn't say.

[hatrox]

Most people misunderstand anarchism, for the individual communities to successfully protect their own interest there must be some order to begin with.
it doesn't happen by default nor can it simply be introduced, but in all honesty I no very little about the subject so i couldn't say.
Up until now there has always been someone sane enough to take control of Rapture and "infuse" it with their own political and philosophical views, but what will happen if in the end everybody loses their minds? Total lawlessness, total anarchy.

[ancient]

You are absolutely right :)

It's the experience. To sense philosophy that's in the walls.

[panda rave]

You are absolutely right :)

It's the experience. To sense philosophy that's in the walls.

yes absolutely...
the fact that a room can tell a story that can provoke real emotions is shocking in it's own right, with the help of an audio diary that story can become amplified simply by giving it a voice but when you take a step back and you see the whole picture made up of hundreds of those stories.. well that's when you realize that rapture is a real city and it's story is the saddest I've ever encountered in a game.

[Cubed]

It does make you wonder where the future of bioshock lies.
The most obvious route to take from objectivism is altruism as they are polar opposites but what next?
Existentialism or pragmatism make the most sense to me but I still don't see a John Dewey-esque figure appearing in rapture...:confused:

Out of curiosity how do you think they would approach existentialism? That would be extremely deep and hard to approach let alone just throw into a game. Don't get me wrong I'm not attacking you, I think this is an interesting idea but I would love to hear what you're thinking. :)

[panda rave]

Out of curiosity how do you think they would approach existentialism? That would be extremely deep and hard to approach let alone just throw into a game. Don't get me wrong I'm not attacking you, I think this is an interesting idea but I would love to hear what you're thinking. :)

well I always felt that the actions you make in bioshock and by which means are reflected in the philosophy ( almost as though they are metaphors ).
with this in mind it's not hard to imagine an existentialist or at least the embodiment of existentialism taking charge of rapture.

I'm not very good at these things and it's considerably harder to picture without knowing how Lambs rapture turns out but here's an example.

this leader would have to be passionate but obviously he/she would have to be passionate about the discovery or truth but in a form most consider abstract and intangible. he/she would probably be preoccupied with using the ADAM much like Timothy Leary used lsd to discover truth and teach others to do so.

That's just a really rushed and flawed example and I have no idea how that could be integrated into a game but you asked for it:D

[Cubed]

Very Interesting Idea! I like where you're going with it. You're right though it's hard to speculate about BS3 when we haven't even played BS2 yet. It would be interesting to see the pursuit of truth using plasmids and what not, I could envision this leader starting like Ryan (what I mean by this is: having good intentions when starting their endeavors), but their vision and motives get severely skewed with plasmid abuse and the fall of rapture.

[Xardas]

Very Interesting Idea! I like where you're going with it. You're right though it's hard to speculate about BS3 when we haven't even played BS2 yet. It would be interesting to see the pursuit of truth using plasmids and what not, I could envision this leader starting like Ryan (what I mean by this is: having good intentions when starting their endeavors), but their vision and motives get severely skewed with plasmid abuse and the fall of rapture.

What I'm truly interested in is what happens when the supply of ADAM runs out. From what we've seen in BS1, there's no organized groups that are actually collecting any new ADAM from the seaslugs. It seemed as though the Fisheries were in disuse.

From what I imagine, everytime the Splicers harvest used ADAM from corpses, the effect gets weaker and weaker each time. So will there be a point when the ADAM ceases to have any effect and the citizens of Rapture begin to return to some form of normality?

If that were to happen, instead of the Splicers mindlessly following a new philosophy and/or being oppressed by that philosophy, would they experience a rebirth in which they can once again think for themselves to a certain extent?

Its already been a significant amount of time since the end of the events in BS1. From what we've heard, its possible to interact with Splicers instead of them being "hell-bent" on harvesting ADAM. Could this be an indicator that the effects of ADAM are starting to wear off and they're achieving a more advanced form of self-thought? I think this will be interesting to see how it will play out.

[Cubed]

Hmm that is a good and very intriguing idea Xardas. It would be very strange to see Rapture without Adam. I think if this happened though there obviously would have to be some sort of conflict, maybe the re-birth would come in the form of someone creating some sort of new Adam subsitute?

If the splicers began to think for themselves you may find all of them making a rush back to the surface world after witnessing all they did.

[Xardas]

Hmm that is a good and very intriguing idea Xardas. It would be very strange to see Rapture without Adam. I think if this happened though there obviously would have to be some sort of conflict, maybe the re-birth would come in the form of someone creating some sort of new Adam subsitute?

If the splicers began to think for themselves you may find all of them making a rush back to the surface world after witnessing all they did.

Yeah those are some great points. I think that if the producers went in this direction with the game then there is a multitude of different routes they could take. A conflict would be inevitable, and it would be sad to see so many freed addicts just try to find substitutes for their addiction.

I think that the realization of what they turned into would be catastrophic for their psyches to handle. At the moment, it seems like they're running solely on their craving for ADAM. Once that runs out, they would probably run out of steam so to speak. If that were the case, then it would be easy for another strong willed person to take over Rapture. However, if there does happen to be new installments to this franchise after Bioshock 2, I hope that the same theme of a new dictator with different beliefs doesn't repeat itself. Although I can't really think of a new way in which they can present a story. :p