I still don't like what I'm seeing about Bioshock 2

[Frank Fountaine]

From the video's I've seen it seems like the levels were made not as an actual city, but rather as a gameplay fun house. I mean in the 1st Bioshock there were parts that felt it was made for a game (like the oil puddles). But in Bioshock 2 it seems the whole levels are made just for you plasmids, and just doesn't seem realistic anymore. Instead of feeling like this was an actual Orphanage, or this was an actual Amusment Park. It feels now like a game set in a city. It just doesn't really look, or feel the same as in Bioshock 1, instead of a city stuck in the 30's.

Maybe it's just me

[Rapture-Stingers-QB]

From the video's I've seen it seems like the levels were made not as an actual city,

(snip) It feels now like a game set in a city.


So which is it? Just tryin' to follow your thought process here.

[Big Daddy MK.2]

Yeah I think its just you.

[Frank Fountaine]

So which is it? Just tryin' to follow your thought process here.

I mean it doesn't feel like an actual city, but rather a fun house, a play house that was designed for the players that's set in a city.

[ancient]

Yeah I think its just you.

No, not just him :)

I also get this weird "cartoonish" feeling about Rapture whenever viewing Bioshock 2 gameplay footage. That it's not quite 100% realistic when compared to the original. Probably that's why I constantly get this weird impression that textures are inferior in Bioshock 2 vs. Bioshock 1. It's not the textures but the overall style, more likely.

But, at the same time, I hope the atmosphere and the story and choice-driven, morality-infused gameplay and the quality of the final build of the game will make up for those, let's hope, small immersion-killers.

I can probably "buy" that setting even if it's not 100% realistic.

[Rapture_Reminder]

You haven't actually played the game yet. You can't really criticize the level design without experiencing it firsthand. And obviously in the footage they're only showing the action-heavy parts.

[tupello]

I think maybe one of the reasons it might seem unrealistic (to me) is that Bioshock 1 gradually gave you plasmids and introduced you to more and more splicers...

From the trailers it seems the gameplay is from the middle of the game where everthing is fast and furious and action packed.

I'm hoping the pace of the 2nd game is similar to the first and these things are gradully introduced instead of shoved in your face.

[zachmonky]

You have a jaded opinion because of all the Adam you took at the end of Bio, and I killed you too, so I can see how your opinion might be eschewed.

[TheArtist'sMuse]

From the video's I've seen it seems like the levels were made not as an actual city, but rather as a gameplay fun house. I mean in the 1st Bioshock there were parts that felt it was made for a game (like the oil puddles). But in Bioshock 2 it seems the whole levels are made just for you plasmids, and just doesn't seem realistic anymore.

I wouldn't be so quick to judge by the videos when the game hasn't been released yet. Whose is to say all of the levels are going to be like that? I can sort of see where you're coming from when you say "gameplay fun house", but really, why wouldn't they feature fun plasmid levels?

[Judgeofwings]

I wouldn't be so quick to judge by the videos when the game hasn't been released yet. Whose is to say all of the levels are going to be like that? I can sort of see where you're coming from when you say "gameplay fun house", but really, why wouldn't they feature fun plasmid levels?

Ryan's Amusements=Dark insane funhouse,seems about right.:cool::p

[TheArtist'sMuse]

Ryan's Amusements=Dark insane funhouse,seems about right.:cool::p

Nothing wrong with that. :cool:

[RTM]

I love what I'm seeing! And can see absolutely nothing to complain about! This game might be- dare I say it? - better than the first!!!!!

[JackTheWrench]

It just doesn't really look, or feel the same as in Bioshock 1, instead of a city stuck in the 30's.

Bioshock takes place in 1960. Bioshock 2 takes place approx. 10 years later (aka 1970). We have never seen Rapture in the 30's.

[IllusionOfLife]

The problem lies in the fact that 2K isn't trying to sell the game to us. As fans of the original they know that we're going to buy the second game, so spending time and money marketing the game to us is a redundant endeavor.

The promotional materials shown are directed to people who have never played BioShock and even those who have never heard of it. They're showcasing the action elements and the cool gameplay mechanics the game has because your average consumer is more likely to buy a game that looks fun than a game they think will have a cool setting and story.

The interviews I've seen with the story team, especially Jordan Thomas, convince me that BioShock 2 will have just as much, if not more, depth to it's story and setting. Jordan Thomas is talking to us, the gameplay footage is talking to the guy walking around Walmart saying "I have $60 and I don't know what to buy."

[Epstein_The_Swami]

Well put Illusion; with sales of a game like this, there's a very darkened and thick line between customers. On one side you have the fans of the original, who won't require as much convincing as the other side; people who've just been introduced to the game or who have no clue as to what Bioshock even is.

Though I'd enjoy seeing some "spooky atmosphere" trailers, I think that may have ruined a bit of the experience. I think more action-oriented trailers was the right move. :)

[TheArtist'sMuse]

The interviews I've seen with the story team, especially Jordan Thomas, convince me that BioShock 2 will have just as much, if not more, depth to it's story and setting. Jordan Thomas is talking to us, the gameplay footage is talking to the guy walking around Walmart saying "I have $60 and I don't know what to buy."

That's exactly right.

[god_smaka]

oh right, its not like the game isnt out or anything...perfect time to make judgements on the game...(SARCASM)

[ZOSO]

Bioshock takes place in 1960. Bioshock 2 takes place approx. 10 years later (aka 1970). We have never seen Rapture in the 30's.

Pretty hard since it was built in after 1945 i think.:p


Back on topic:Dude the vids and pics are probly from a preproduction version of bioshock2.Id say we still havent seen the finished product.;)

[Monolithic]

Back on topic:Dude the vids and pics are probly from a preproduction version of bioshock2.Id say we still havent seen the finished product.;)

It might not be the final product, but most of the content is identical to the final game. Tweaks, etc. would probably be the only difference between the versions.

And yes, I agree that the gameplay videos focus too much on the action. Why not squeeze some story trailers in there as well?

[resistence1993]

i think both story and action will be updated in bioshock 2 in every way i think it will be better

[DavidtheBrave1]

I would definately say that bs2 looks better than the first.

[Vaughan]

The problem lies in the fact that 2K isn't trying to sell the game to us. As fans of the original they know that we're going to buy the second game, so spending time and money marketing the game to us is a redundant endeavor.

The promotional materials shown are directed to people who have never played BioShock and even those who have never heard of it. They're showcasing the action elements and the cool gameplay mechanics the game has because your average consumer is more likely to buy a game that looks fun than a game they think will have a cool setting and story.

The interviews I've seen with the story team, especially Jordan Thomas, convince me that BioShock 2 will have just as much, if not more, depth to it's story and setting. Jordan Thomas is talking to us, the gameplay footage is talking to the guy walking around Walmart saying "I have $60 and I don't know what to buy."

AMEN! BRAVO! I couldn't agree more. As well I'd like to point out the invalidity of "noticing" the texture quality of BS2 dropping since the first or saying that it "feels" not quite right, because these things can't be judged until the game is actually played and seen in person...

[vitiis]

Threads like this pop up from time to time so you're not the only one who is feeling that way.

My opinion never changes on this; you'll have to play it to see whether you like it or not. Trailers give you a taste but they're a few minutes out of hours and hours of gameplay. They never show you the really juicy, important, game altering pieces or the story because that will ruin it.

[Zen-Zinxe]

I don't see a point in arguing about it anyway. It's only opinion, not to mention the game is due in less than 2 months. I was convinced back in August that this game was worth it.

[japester]

And yes, I agree that the gameplay videos focus too much on the action. Why not squeeze some story trailers in there as well?

Okay, I LOL'd at this. They have mentioned some story elements in interviews and such, and fans have lost their minds while screaming "SPOILERS!!!". :rolleyes: From what I gather, the earth-shattering story tidbits they've revealed so far are spelled out very early in the game....meaning there is much more beyond that to look forward to. So I wouldn't be too concerned about that.

[andrix10]

i think the videos they are showing us is the demo that they made like 6 months ago.:cool:

[Strummer292]

I think we're just going to have to wait. 2K did a great job with the last game so I believe that they know what they are doing. Give it a chance.

[collective10]

I am glad they have left out the emotional scenes and focused mainly on the action, it leaves room for us to explore rather than shoving every spoiler possible in our faces, sure those of us who played the first will understand the meaning behind non action packed scenes, but you've got to portray yourselves to a new audience too :cool:

I hope songs like empty houses are back in bioshock 2, I absolutely loved how it plays those emotional songs when the fighting is over and it's a serene scene :)

[soundwave145]

will you ever be satasifed?? go grab a snickers and wait 2 more months and then come back and post i was so wrong about bioshock 2!!!:cool:

[laikalappie]

The thing that's bugging me is that BS2 is looking too much like BS1.

We can pretty much assume that the achievement list is correct, right? Well, just look at it - the single player component is nearly indentical to the BS1 one. 2k made the list, so that says something about their way of thinking on BS2. One could say that it is: "let's make a BS1 copy with a Big Daddy in it, and replace two of the types of enemies as well". I mean, that's all we've seen so far.

Now, I'm not looking forward to a copy. I want another game that does what BS1 did - being original, being one of a kind.

[japester]

It's worth remembering that the head honcho, Jordan Thomas, is responsible for both the Fort Frolic level in BS1 and the Shalebridge Cradle in the old Thief series of games. So he knows how to do uber-creepy, scary, and lonely, as well as frantic, scary combat. Ryan's Amusements is a perfect example of something you'd see if Fort Frolic were bigger and allowed to run wild. :)

It makes sense, story-wise, for their to be more combat and more action this time around. As the PBD, we're built for that sort of thing. Doesn't mean there won't be atmosphere and loneliness, but they may not be the focus of the game this time around. Remember, too, that we can have a companion most of the time in the form of a LS. And if things get too frantic, we have a walk on the sea floor to collect our thoughts and enjoy the scenery of Rapture from a whole new angle (literally and figuratively!).

[Codex]

The thing that's bugging me is that BS2 is looking too much like BS1.

We can pretty much assume that the achievement list is correct, right? Well, just look at it - the single player component is nearly indentical to the BS1 one. 2k made the list, so that says something about their way of thinking on BS2. One could say that it is: "let's make a BS1 copy with a Big Daddy in it, and replace two of the types of enemies as well". I mean, that's all we've seen so far.

What you can see of the SP component is exactly like BS1. Well, maybe it is. Maybe that isn't the correct achievements list. Just because the achievements appear to look the same doesn't mean that the story/gameplay will be the exact same. Yes, we have to upgrade weapons, yes we have to "deal with" little sisters, but we were expecting that, weren't we? Bioshock is all about building yourself up and then saving/harvesting LS'. We don't know a darned thing about the plot and how it will play out, nor have we seen all of the Rapture that we will be exploring in the game!

I feel a lot like Sander Cohen whilst writing this post. A quote of "you're all doubters" right here feels very pertinent (and yes, its edited for profanity, deal with it). Wait until the game comes out and you have played it to call if a bad game. You can't do anything with the same seven or eight 10 second clips reworked between all the ads so that they are in another order. We don't know anything about the game yet. Judging it before its even hit a proper trailer yet is... well, a bit like jumping at shadows.

[Bombast]

The thing that's bugging me is that BS2 is looking too much like BS1.

We can pretty much assume that the achievement list is correct, right? Well, just look at it - the single player component is nearly indentical to the BS1 one. 2k made the list, so that says something about their way of thinking on BS2. One could say that it is: "let's make a BS1 copy with a Big Daddy in it, and replace two of the types of enemies as well". I mean, that's all we've seen so far.

Now, I'm not looking forward to a copy. I want another game that does what BS1 did - being original, being one of a kind.

I'd disagree about it looking like a copy.

Watching the trailers and previews, I can see a lot about it that reminds me of the first game - stuff like some of the physical features of Rapture, signs and things that would neccessarily be the same, and stuff like the inclusion of plasmids and splicers, which of course are going to be in there.

But I can also see a lot of things that look different - the combat, with its new emphasis on playing a slow tank and new way of using plasmids/weapons, for example, and new storyline/characters. I'm going to be playing it for the story, so I'm looking forward to hearing the bosses yell crazy things and seeing the writing on the walls - and from what I've seen, it looks like that stuff is gonna be a lot more than just a copy of the first game.

[Monolithic]

Okay, I LOL'd at this. They have mentioned some story elements in interviews and such, and fans have lost their minds while screaming "SPOILERS!!!". :rolleyes: From what I gather, the earth-shattering story tidbits they've revealed so far are spelled out very early in the game....meaning there is much more beyond that to look forward to. So I wouldn't be too concerned about that.

Haha, no.
You misunderstand me! I don't want a trailer that divulges story details, I want a trailer that explores some non-combat elements, some of the exploration element. Perhaps some more of the underwater sections.
Perhaps I shouldn't have used the word "story".

[laikalappie]

First of all, don't get me wrong folks, I'm just as excited about BS2 as you are. I'm just starting to doubt things a little.


... the combat, with its new emphasis on playing a slow tank and new way of using plasmids/weapons, for example, and new storyline/characters.

We played as a Big Daddy in the last part of BioShock 1. We've actually already escorted Little Sisters before. Your health isn't massive, like other Big Daddies, but based on healing kits, just like Jack's health.

The storyline - from what we've seen so far, it's the same. There is an evil villain once again, who actually is a replacement for Andrew Ryan. Throw in a plot twist and BS2 is ready to go. Two types of Splicers are rather likely thrown out, leaving just normal ones and Brutes. Yes, we're getting Big Sisters now, but what a cliché is that? Big Daddies, Little Sisters, and now there's Big Sisters as well! Woo!
The weapons are rather alike Jack's as well. The spear gun is a big crossbow (with actual trap .. spears? Huh?), the .50 cal a big machine gun, the drill a buzzing wrench, the shotgun ... well, a shotgun, and so it goes on.

That's just a few too many duplicates, if you ask me.


Wait until the game comes out and you have played it to call if a bad game (...)

Agreed, and oh yes, I'll rushing through my shop-of-choice's doors as soon as they break apart. I just think it can't hurt to discuss. And I do think the achievements are the ones - I'd sort of expect Liz to say something about it if that wouldn't be the case. Just as well do I think the achievements are believable and noticeably time-invested in to be true.

[ancient]

Two points:

One - comparison. It's perfectly normal for us to compare Bioshock 2 marketing material with the equivalents of Bioshock 1 before the launch of that game. They are noticeably different and Bioshock 1 trailers/footage were a lot more atmospheric in nature back then.

Two - work with me :) 2K. I try very heavily to promote this game in my local community but I need some tangible material (screenshots or trailers) so that I could convince them this is the real deal and not just Jordan Thomas talking day-and-night (even though it's fascinating).

Seeing is believing.

Because the current video (and screenshot) material is so heavily oriented towards splicer-splashing action, I constantly have to reedit existing videos to extract those rare atmosphere bits that shine and convey the charm of Bioshock world. Maybe my efforts with result in a dozen or so new fans but little things add up.

I would expect 50/50 balance from Bioshock 2 marketing in terms of how it approaches gameplay components: highly intense action vs. atmosphere. We need both. We don't tell that atmosphere should be the major focus but it should be clearly visible (because, eventually, it will exist in the game, right?)

It's all about marketing style, not the game. The game is already completed but the main advertising campaign is only about to begin.

I do believe that Bioshock 2 itself, once we open the game, will contain those pieces Jordan Thomas is hyping about. But come on - we live in the world where marketing and how marketing approaches us makes a huge impact on the actual decisions to touch the game or not :)

Bioshock 2 marketing should include at least some atmosphere-driven trailers or screenshots because currently, when we take a look at the actual in-game footage, the balance is very skewed. 90% oriented towards heavy action and only 10% towards the atmosphere. The goal would be 70/30 at least.

[FatalFuseBox]

I agree completely. 2K is only giving out screenshots and trailers that are based around heavy combat. But, this is how most game companies are run. They're reaching out to other demographics. What 2K is trying to do is to get some of the less story driven players (and sometimes less serious gamers) to buy their product. These gamers are all about action and kicking butt; they're less concerned/focused on atmospheric aspects of the game (yet they are usually the ones who determine whether a game is good or not on graphics alone).


It's been mentioned before (I don't remember by who) that fans of the original game will more likely than not buy the new game. While they may be doing the serious gamers/fanboys&girls a disservice by not expressing concern for our...well...concerns, they are a business that is trying to increase the number of people its product reaches (and thereby increasing their profitability).

[Zen-Zinxe]

Man, some of you guys have no faith in 2K!

It almost sounds like you guys are waiting for a sequel to a movie, which it is not a movie. (but will be soon enough I'm sure) As far as I'm concerned this game will turn out to be L4D2, in regards to the first L4D.

L4D was good, but L4D2 had everything L4D had and more. More guns, more zombies, and a more realistic environment. Bioshock 2 will be the same, it will have everything Bioshock 1 had and more.

On the note of advertising, Bioshock 2 has many atmospheric screenshots, rather good videos (including the multiplayer trailer, which showcases gameplay because that's obviously the focus in multiplayer games). I'm sure as soon as some TV spot ads for BS2 show up you'll change your mind.

The BS1 TV ads had some atmosphere and some were all action, but they were done extremely well.

[Surviver]

The weapons are rather alike Jack's as well. The spear gun is a big crossbow (with actual trap .. spears? Huh?), the .50 cal a big machine gun, the drill a buzzing wrench, the shotgun ... well, a shotgun, and so it goes on.

That's just a few too many duplicates, if you ask me.


Bioshock had a lot of similarity to another game that is connected to 2k, System Shock 2. So if your complaining about Bioshock 2 being too similar to Bioshock, you should be saying the same thing about Bioshock. :p

[BioShockLvr]

I agree with most of you, the gameplay footage focuses on the action packed parts. Jordan Thomas has said in many interviews that he's tried to remain faithful to BioShock 1 in all possible ways.

[DavidtheBrave1]

Some of you people are too damn picky! The game looks fine.

[TheLighthouse]

Oh come on just look at us. Were a rabid and spastic group of people who will drive for HOURS to get a bottle with peices of paper in it, and will no doubt Murder anyone infront of us inline to pickup Bioshock 2 when that fateful midnight comes. Do you really think these videos and pictures are aimed at us? They know darn well that we will all be there, front of the line, first chance we get, to buy bioshock. They are totaly selling to the imature losers who can't comprehend the incredibly deep story and disturbed atmosphere of Bioshock, and are only buying a shooter "with totaly sweet environmental combat dude!" (the very sad words of a warped little GTA playing 12 year old).

Simply put, don't worry bout a thing, cause every little thing is gonna be alright when we plop ourselves infront o' the TV.

[FatalFuseBox]

Oh come on just look at us. Were a rabid and spastic group of people who will drive for HOURS to get a bottle with peices of paper in it, and will no doubt Murder anyone infront of us inline to pickup Bioshock 2 when that fateful midnight comes. Do you really think these videos and pictures are aimed at us? They know darn well that we will all be there, front of the line, first chance we get, to buy bioshock. They are totaly selling to the imature losers who can't comprehend the incredibly deep story and disturbed atmosphere of Bioshock, and are only buying a shooter "with totaly sweet environmental combat dude!" (the very sad words of a warped little GTA playing 12 year old).

Simply put, don't worry bout a thing, cause every little thing is gonna be alright when we plop ourselves infront o' the TV.


That 12 year-old is quite verbose - using terms like "environmental combat." I'm guessing he learned that from a game review. See, games are GOOD! :D
(btw, that song is terrible)

[TheLighthouse]

That 12 year-old is quite verbose - using terms like "environmental combat." I'm guessing he learned that from a game review. See, games are GOOD! :D
(btw, that song is terrible)

Yes I hate that song too lol, but it fit and I was wondering who the first to say something would be, so you win the prize, of... Respect.

And yeah, he's a friend of my younger brother. He actually started telling ME about this totaly awesome new shooter coming out called Bioshock 2. Doesn't it just KILL you when someone starts talking about something you know soooo well, thinks their right, but have ALL the facts wrong. BTW I can't wait to see all the spliced zoo animals he told me about.

[FatalFuseBox]

Yes I hate that song too lol, but it fit and I was wondering who the first to say something would be, so you win the prize, of... Respect.

And yeah, he's a friend of my younger brother. He actually started telling ME about this totaly awesome new shooter coming out called Bioshock 2. Doesn't it just KILL you when someone starts talking about something you know soooo well, thinks their right, but have ALL the facts wrong. BTW I can't wait to see all the spliced zoo animals he told me about.

ROFLCOPTER. But that might be sick. A zebra that shoots lightning from its mouth. Righteous.

[soviet prince]

bioshock 2 will not be better then bioshock 1 since you can not top perfect( it is tied I asure you :p).

[Lagging]

bioshock 2 will not be better then bioshock 1 since you can not top perfect( it is tied I asure you :p).

all opinions aside, we will have to wait and see, as there were many problems that i came across in bioshock 1 (the annoying fact that there were like...8 different vending machines all selling things that you happen to not need at any given time), the 500$ maximum, the annoyingness of some splicers, the list goes on but then again, your opinion, my opinion

[Blue Lightning]

To the OP - I think it will be ok. I think we have seen some "carnival atmosphere" (which I like), but for the purpose of flashy video. I personally like what I am seeing so far. Remember, the level so far we have seen is Ryans Amusment. That whole level is dedicated to what you are talking about. It makes sense.

[panda rave]

He actually started telling ME about this totaly awesome new shooter coming out called Bioshock 2. Doesn't it just KILL you when someone starts talking about something you know soooo well, thinks their right, but have ALL the facts wrong.me about.
it's a shame really that all some people will ever get out of bioshock is

"FIRE! ZAP! FREEZE! SHATTER BANG! DEATH! SHOOT! this hacking thingy is stupid, cool I can kill little girls EXPLOSIONS! MORE DEATH! game-over. that was crap i'm gonna go play gears to stop my brain from hurting..."

and that's why I'm glad that video-games are becoming more mature intellectually and artistically. it's like back when people would go watch a movie just because it was a moving picture on a screen but as the medium evolved it matured. people know what kind of movies they like and they stick to that. that is my dream, for games to be classified by their true genre not just "fps, tps, rpg" . and one day maybe games will be taken seriously.

bioshock in my opinion is the standard by which all other games should be measured ( within reason )

[Lagging]

it's a shame really that all some people will ever get out of bioshock is

"FIRE! ZAP! FREEZE! SHATTER BANG! DEATH! SHOOT! this hacking thingy is stupid, cool I can kill little girls EXPLOSIONS! MORE DEATH! game-over. that was crap i'm gonna go play gears to stop my brain from hurting..."

and that's why I'm glad that video-games are becoming more mature intellectually and artistically. it's like back when people would go watch a movie just because it was a moving picture on a screen but as the medium evolved it matured. people know what kind of movies they like and they stick to that. that is my dream, for games to be classified by their true genre not just "fps, tps, rpg" . and one day maybe games will be taken seriously.

bioshock in my opinion is the standard by which all other games should be measured ( within reason )

the most accurate FPS would be counter strike, nothing comes close, MW and MW2 are getting there, but not close enough
bioshock, fallout 3, mass effect, those are more effective as RPGs with shooter mixed into