GOTW - 7/19/09 - Aztecs

[DOtheDEW1221]

Well this is an interesting GOTW. You get to use the Aztecs and you start on an island.

AI Civs: Romans, English, Germans, Egyptians

Ancient Artifacts: 7 Cities, Arc, School, and Atlantis

You start of on an island by the Romans. Took em out by 3700bc. Took out the germans by 2600bc.

[Think_Before_You_Speak]

Yes, I gave it ago because I was bored and recognised the map, lol. There are many different starts you can have. After getting iw from the Romans I managed to take out Berlin in 2800BC.

Unfortunately, the English have enough def at 2500BC to take out a tank army...... Egypt are somewhat easier.

I predict a 1200BC dom win is possible. Not possible to get anything earlier unless someone waits for an archer army to walk out or something.

I gave it 3, maybe 4 attempts and settled with a 700BC dom win. That will do me for this week. It would have been a 1000BC win except the English are unreal lucky and have multiple armies.

I think a 600AD tech win should be possible, if I could motivate myself to try.

[Random Fires]

Started pecking at this today. Yeah, the english defense is brutal, just lost three catapult armies go to the 45 defense. I made alot of tactical errors like stealing their Great person. Thought it'd be useful in the a city between english and germany. Should have used the spy to weaken fortifications. Doing the roughly same as above, but next play I'll mix things up. Trying to take the english 3rd just isn't working out. Three catapults and a spy might crack it. If that doesn't do it, I'm gonna gun for egypt and save the english last with some galleon support.
Props to DotheDew1221, nice. Watched you plug away at this Sunday, each date getting earlier. Frankly I'd be happy with an early Ad win. Got one last shot before heading to work.

[enexuscurt]

I only played a little yesterday and won't get to try again until late this week but it seemed like a good strategy may be to get English first. You can walk in after getting the first barb hut below and building a boat. Had them and germany pretty early (2800 bc I think). Just wondering what you all thought.

[Zso_Zso]

I haven't played it, so these are just some random ideas based on the above info:
1. try taking London first with legions built from Rome (camp forests to prevent building army) -- not sure if you can get there fast enough, but enexuscurt said he took English first, so mustbe possible. Make sure you get Monarchy (buy BW if necessary prior to taking city)
2. research HBR (should be fast with 3 cities) while sailing for SoC
3. manipulate seed to get GS from SoC, then use it to get Feud
4. knight rush Berlin and Thebes

I am not sure if this map is suitable to get SoC quickly -- as I said I haven't played it, but I remember I did the GS knight-rush trick twice in the past, once with English start (SoC was close to Kyoto on south) and once with French start where London was close eough to take with horse-army before archer army was built.

[DOtheDEW1221]

It is possible to walk in to London but you have to be very dilibrate on your opening moves. I managed to get a 1700bc Dom win on diety. Dont think I can get any better than that.

[generic_toaster]

Man and I wasn't even going to play this week, but the talk of possible early knights might be irressitable!

[lordbah]

Wow you guys are hardcore. Rome has an archer army before I finish Bronze Working, and I can't seem to beat that with any number of legions. Have to wait for heavier units. This week seems much harder than the past few months, and heavily stacked in favor of the Egyptians. I've always managed to win in the past, though it often takes me past 2000 AD, but this week I've actually lost every time. BTW I've always played at King.

Still finding differences from the PC (and Amiga) versions I used to play. Fun though. Except for the irritatingly frequent occurrences of losing when I have a 3:1 advantage, and fighters not defending cities.

[generic_toaster]

Wow you guys are hardcore. Rome has an archer army before I finish Bronze Working, and I can't seem to beat that with any number of legions. Have to wait for heavier units. This week seems much harder than the past few months, and heavily stacked in favor of the Egyptians. I've always managed to win in the past, though it often takes me past 2000 AD, but this week I've actually lost every time. BTW I've always played at King.

Still finding differences from the PC (and Amiga) versions I used to play. Fun though. Except for the irritatingly frequent occurrences of losing when I have a 3:1 advantage, and fighters not defending cities.

I would think that even on king you could walk in on rome and get a free cap. Move your settler close to Rome, plant your cap, rush warrior and walk in before any warriors are built. See Random Fires GOTW guide for lots of useful info...

[generic_toaster]

Well I kinda fumble mc stupid'd my way around the map and got my horse army killed by the germans....I kept going and was able to take all other civs by 2200bc. So I think 2100 may be possible, just need to figure out how to take the germans down...

EDIT:

It seems that SoC and england are on opposite sides of a huge island :( seems like no quick knights this time. As I don't think I can walk in on england and go after Soc...

[DOtheDEW1221]

I took out the English first with a walk in. Then took an army and took out germany, then Egypt. Romans were my last stop on the pain train. heh

[lordbah]

I would think that even on king you could walk in on rome and get a free cap. Move your settler close to Rome, plant your cap, rush warrior and walk in before any warriors are built. See Random Fires GOTW guide for lots of useful info...

"cap"?
I did manage to walk into Rome unopposed tonight. Eventually won economic in 2048.

[Random Fires]

Just got home and my 360 is still on with a game mid thru. Yeah! On king level you can walk into germany, giving you a better position for the rest of the map. On deity, rome is open, and if you buy IW before taking it, you can advance on germany, once again getting a better position for the map. Of course logging an actual score would be prime, so I'm off.

[Random Fires]

Wow, and wtf. Hehe. Around 1000bc With a stack of 2 catatpults armies,2 spies, , and a legion england once more slaughtered everything. Played again getting to england sooner since all it takes is a milita and a catapult army to take egypt and still watched a bloodbath provided by my good friends again.. Adding insult to injury, I took a look at the leaderboards, and Dew's got a 1700Bc Win! Wow!
Given the english resistance (I thought hoptites were bad geez) it may well be worth taking the walk in and fighting the distance.
A 1700bc means no time to muck around researching catapults.

[Random Fires]

Taking rome before the egyptian walkout gained me a couple of years....1900bc
Still, I had no idea those longbows were so effective, I'll treat them like greece next time I see'em.

[oneaggie02]

I took out the English first with a walk in. Then took an army and took out germany, then Egypt. Romans were my last stop on the pain train. heh

Man you guys make me feel so dumb for figuring this stuff out. i have tried to accomplish the english walk-in many many times without success. the best i can do is have a warrior land at 3600, with the english building their first defender at 3500 (right before i can walk-in). even if i block their production they still can finish off the archer with production from mountain and city.

i can land at 3700 (two spaces away from walk-in) and attack the hut below the english, but always get a caravan (would be nice to get a horse).

any hints would be greatly appreciated, i have spent too much time to continue trying.

[enexuscurt]

I am not home but from memory I think you move your settler south next to hut and immediately buy a warrior. i think that was 3900 but not sure. Kill the hut and get 50 gold. Make sure you have gold production and then the next turn build a boat and immediately load the warrior and go to england. When you get there turn put the warrior on one forest and militia on the other. Next turn walk in. I think you get BW this way.

[oneaggie02]

I am not home but from memory I think you move your settler south next to hut and immediately buy a warrior. i think that was 3900 but not sure. Kill the hut and get 50 gold. Make sure you have gold production and then the next turn build a boat and immediately load the warrior and go to england. When you get there turn put the warrior on one forest and militia on the other. Next turn walk in. I think you get BW this way.

Strange. I wish I understood seeding. I settled one north of barb hut this time after reading your advice, rushed warrior, set all resources to production (3 due to location), built boat at 3800 with 1g to spare (i think if you set all to gold you end up with 1g short). Still ended up landing at London at 3600, this time no archers at 3500 = walkin like you said.

The way i was doing it, i settled in 4000 one spot south of starting loc, rushed warrior, took barb at 3900, built boat at 3900, loaded up at 3800 (same result as above), and land near london at 3600, only this way they have an archer built by 3500.

So does anyone know why building my cap one turn sooner trigger London to build archer one turn sooner?

Anyway, after taking your advice, i researched horses while moving over to london, took out germans around 2800 with horse army with blitz/ninja/march/medic, and had three legion armies at rome and my horse army plus two legions at thebes by 1600. i guess you can take down thebes and rome probably with 2 armies if you play with seeding . . . anyway the 3 armies at thebes worked, the 3 armies at rome all failed.

[Random Fires]

The english walk-in explained.

4000-send your settler two spaces south, and to the left, a tree tile, and on the shoreline.

3900-plant city, rush a warrior, switch unit selection to galley so you don't forget. manage worker focus, one on the tree, the other south west (so it's next to the barb but in the sea) and collect gold. Attack barb, gain 50 gold.

3800-Rush a galley,leave city screen, galley should now be on your sea tile, go back to city screen, manage worker focus to two sea tiles and switch to research. Load warrior and milita gained previously into galley. Move galley south west one square and then west (important, not diagonally up.you'll see why.)

3700- Choose horse tech, and unload one militia south east to the tree tile, move your galley north west and back down south west.

3600- move the galley one space west. unload militia directly west onto the trees, and you will have declared war. Unload the warrior north west into the unused trees. Move the militia you unloaded earlier south and collect some gold(that's why). The placement of which and where of each is optional, but frees up the militia to get a space ahead since the warrior must go into the city anyways. And you a choking both resources.

3500- With both resource tiles choked, the city is still empty, walk your warriors in, and claim england. Select the city screen and select worker focus to research. move all militia east, why not. Hit the RT button and you'll see you'll have horses completed next turn. Sell galley.
3400 is all up to you. But at this point you'll have enough gold to rush a horse unit and all militia are moving forward to explore.

Summary. By choking the city before walking in, you deny the Ai's ability to make defenses. Sometimes you can just walk in, but sometimes you gotta choke'em before doing so. And hopefully one will see just how important militia can become.

I thought I'd throw the rest in just to show what also can be accomplish in just a few short turns. What you research, if at all, or where you put your second free militia is solely up to you, but the above will give you a very nice start. Personally, I'm convinced a couple of more years can be shaved off yet, hopefully ending in 2100bc... We'll see.

To those in the know... If I'm posting way to much info just say so and I'll keep to the bare bones.

[oneaggie02]

The detail is appreciated. Good call on dumping one of the militia to claim the exploration gold. I had decided to research horses while the boat was on the way to London, but wasnt sure if that was the best way to go or not. I also built a new trireme after horse army to get SCoG, seems worth it, but maybe too much of a waste of turns not sure.

Any thoughts on why settling in 4000 means London gets archer by 3500, but settling in 3900 they don't? That killed me.

[Random Fires]

I don't know if I ever settled in 4000. When it comes to first city placement I always gravitate towards barbs to gain a unit.
I tried to get to England settling in 3900 just now, and I cann't strike England any earlier then 3400, sadly too late(The galley is now spawned two spaces north instead of south where you want to go, and you only gain 3 tech instead of 4).
Even if you took an 3900bc placement, and got to England in time, a turn would be lost on research which will cost you another turn, and Germany will have an army of archers happily awaiting you.

For me it about a domination win, no growth, little progress, no buildings. Distance a secondary enemy, and time the greatest.
Anytime I find exploratory gold I mark the date.If I type the wrong date, I'm not paying attention.

[generic_toaster]

The difference between settling at 4000 and 3900 is absolutely bizarre because when you settle in 4000 you get to london at the same time, block off both squares except somehow london comes up with 2 prod or 4 gold by some miracle...seems like a glitch.

[generic_toaster]

Well folks I finally did it, 2200bc! And it all come down to when to grab some exploration gold or maybe meeting germany too soon, I don't know. I lost more times to Rome 9v8 than I care to remember. Guess I should drink and play gotw more often cuz damn, it just fell into place tonight! I swear this week nearly drove me nuts...

[Magistratas]

Nice! You folks amaze me... Btw, did you even bother with SCoG at all?

[generic_toaster]

Nice! You folks amaze me... Btw, did you even bother with SCoG at all?

7 cities is a must! I send my galley after it immediately after taking england. And I use 3 horse armies and that requires alot of gold.

I'll probably play through once more to document my play though, so I can post it here fridayish. Maybe it'll give others ideas for future gotw's.

EDIT:
Amazing, I don't know about that. I replayed this one more times than I care to admit. I think knowing that a pre-2000bc win was possible kept me going, but I was on the brink of giving up. This week is all about the seed...

[Think_Before_You_Speak]

I tried to get to England settling in 3900 just now, and I cann't strike England any earlier then 3400, sadly too late(The galley is now spawned two spaces north instead of south where you want to go,

I am not playing the GOTW again, I will wait for the Mongol GOTW as I find them interesting. That was clever to take out England first, I gave it a 2 min run and got them first try. But again I have no interest in playing it through, as it takes too much time.

However I am going to help you here. You seem to be making an amature mistake. This is also helpful in multiplayer btw. If you want your galley to appear on a said water tile, you must have a worker on it. I would suggest to work the forest and gold on the water tile closest to London. Once you get 50 gold from the barb, rush galley, block London's production and walk in.

Hope that helps...

[Random Fires]

I am not playing the GOTW again, I will wait for the Mongol GOTW as I find them interesting. That was clever to take out England first, I gave it a 2 min run and got them first try. But again I have no interest in playing it through, as it takes too much time.

However I am going to help you here. You seem to be making an amature mistake. This is also helpful in multiplayer btw. If you want your galley to appear on a said water tile, you must have a worker on it. I would suggest to work the forest and gold on the water tile closest to London. Once you get 50 gold from the barb, rush galley, block London's production and walk in.

Hope that helps...
I was referring to the difference between planting a city in 4000bc compared to 3900bc, and that planting in 4000bc puts the galley too far way to reach england in time. Yeah, I kinda know about the water tile spawn. There's a complete england walk-in, walk thru earlier in the thread.

Nice one Toaster. Yeah it takes a number of tries to figure out how to take Rome. I've been trying to fatten Egypt with gold to try to advance their settler production, thus advancing their walk-out. Each time I did, the spy failed to emerge from the barb east of Rome.

Btw what does SCoG stand for?

[generic_toaster]

I guessed at Seven Cities of Gold...

[Magistratas]

7 cities is a must! I send my galley after it immediately after taking england. And I use 3 horse armies and that requires alot of gold.

I do the same and arrive to Egypt by 2200BC and lose every time (spy or no spy). I guess I'm missing some important step somewhere. Surprisingly, Rome is easy to take, but maybe that's where my problem lays. Will have to figure it out...

Edit: When a walk-out occurs, aren't they suppose to send an army with it? In my case Egypt always sends one archer and keeps the army in the city. Or is it because I'm too close?

[WOOD]

I do the same and arrive to Egypt by 2200BC and lose every time (spy or no spy). I guess I'm missing some important step somewhere. Surprisingly, Rome is easy to take, but maybe that's where my problem lays. Will have to figure it out...

Edit: When a walk-out occurs, aren't they suppose to send an army with it? In my case Egypt always sends one archer and keeps the army in the city. Or is it because I'm too close?

It's all just seeding. When they walk out for me they have only 1 archer in the city. For me it's around 2000 bc so I'm a little behind. It's not really worth playing over and over to me to find out.
I did manage a 1150 tech victory and that was exiting. Looks like nobody is going to try for anything other than domination again this week =(

[generic_toaster]

I do the same and arrive to Egypt by 2200BC and lose every time (spy or no spy). I guess I'm missing some important step somewhere. Surprisingly, Rome is easy to take, but maybe that's where my problem lays. Will have to figure it out...

Edit: When a walk-out occurs, aren't they suppose to send an army with it? In my case Egypt always sends one archer and keeps the army in the city. Or is it because I'm too close?

Yeah, you're doing something different than me because the egyptian walkout occurs at 2300. In my early games the walkout was at 2200, I think it's maybe that you guys are taking the hut east of germany and by the time I get there egypt has already taken it. Here's some dates, they always seem to help me out:

England at 3500
Germany at 2600 (i'll double check this to be sure, but this is from memory)
Rome and Egypt both go down at 2300

[generic_toaster]

It's all just seeding. When they walk out for me they have only 1 archer in the city. For me it's around 2000 bc so I'm a little behind. It's not really worth playing over and over to me to find out.
I did manage a 1150 tech victory and that was exiting. Looks like nobody is going to try for anything other than domination again this week =(

Alot of people get bored with the gotw and stop playing. Even I stopped playing for 6 months or so and i'm pretty hooked. This thread was pretty dead for a while and just recently picked back up.

I go for dom because I can play though 20-25 turns in 10-20 min, which is good because I can tell my wife it'll be a quick game and it will be. saves me some trouble ;)

[ted]

Hey Wood :)

200AD gold win on ps3 deity if you fancy a try...;)

I might have been on for it but my connection cut out twice......

[Magistratas]

I did manage a 1150 tech victory and that was exiting. Looks like nobody is going to try for anything other than domination again this week =(

I saw your score last week and did give it a try. The tech victory has such a different mindset that it is difficult for me to switch from a domination mode to tech. I do find tech more challenging, but domination more addictive :)

[WOOD]

I saw your score last week and did give it a try. The tech victory has such a different mindset that it is difficult for me to switch from a domination mode to tech. I do find tech more challenging, but domination more addictive :)

Well if it's any consolation I use the same tactical start as the domination to get the tech victory. I left the Romans alone this week and choked them off. They only had 7 population in the end and I sank the galley they tried to push out with. Poor Romans never got any other great people and had no buildings or money when I finished with them. (that part was just for fun)
200ad economic? thats really good! The money isn't much of an issue but the production for the WB in that year is impressive. Must have a great builder and humanitarian involved. Nice one =)

[generic_toaster]

Well here's an outline of my solution for this week. This is pretty precise, so if you're still trying to solve it do NOT read on...ah I found the spoiler tags :)

Alot of the stuff I do is to appease the seed. I think I'm proud that I found it, not so proud about the obsession to find it...hope it helps people come up with ideas for the gotw.

I'll leave out the capture of london, as the only thing I do different from Random is I put both militia's outside of london. So the setup going on 3400 is I have a warrior and a militia inside of london, the other militia is above the barb. And the galley is outside of london. You should have just finished HBR.

Just to make things easier, I'll label all the horseman that get rushed:
Out of London:
March - M1
1st infil - I1
2nd infil - I2
1st blitz - B1
2nd blitz - B2

Out of aztec cap:
3 horseman - h1, h2, h3

out of 100g city
1 horse - h4

3400:
Move militia out of london onto galley.
send galley after 7 cities. Should get it at 3100.
send warrior after barb.
send other militia to block a german forest, do NOT get the exploration gold with this unit!
set london to all prod and aztec cap to 1 prod and 1 gold.
3300:
attack barb, continue moving galley and militia.
3200:
take barb and receive a caravan.
Use the caravan to get the exploration gold that's S, then SE and sell.
Rush your 1st horse out of london and get M1.
Send M1 to the hill thats kinda S of london.
Move galley and militia.
3100:
move galley, get 7 cities and immediately rush units out of london and your cap.
The warrior is useless now, but needed to make the upgrades work, so don't sell it. I sent him after the barb that's way south of london.
Send I1 2 spaces SE.
Send h1 after the barb thats west of rome.
continue to move militia
3000:
rush 2 horses again. h1 and h2 send after the barb.
I1 goes 2 spaces E. I2 2 spaces SE. Settlet 2 spaces SE.
M1 attacks next closest barb.
Load the militia onto the galley and send it back to the mainland (this is left over from early games and i didn't want to screw up the seed...)
2900:
rush 2 more horses. h1 attacks the barb. h2 and h3 should join h1 on the hill thats just S of the barb.
M1 takes barb and gets a spy. Send M1 so that it's 2 spaces E of the exploration gold.
Leave the spy where it is. Well use this against germany.
Move settler 1 space E and settle. Set to 1 gold and 1 prod. build a road to london.
move I1 E then SE.
move B1 out of london, so it's just east of the new city. Move I2 to this same space.
unload militia and sell galley.
other militia blocks germans forest.
2800:
rush horse out of london. Send B2 to join B1 and I2.
Join h1-h3 into an army and overrun the barb, then move towards rome. sell the galley.
Move B1 to get the exploration gold (finally!)
Have I1 declare war on germany and block the other forest.
rush h4 out of new city and form an army with I2 and B2. Move army to where I1 was.
move spy towards germany
2700:
send spy to germany to disrupt defenses and attack twice with army. winning twice 12v7 and 12v6.
send the h1 army 2 spaces east to attack roman legion 6v1.5 get vet.
Have I1 and B1 converge on M1 to form army move 2 spaces E and 1 SE. declare peace with egypts caravan.
2600:
with h1 army move S to get exploration gold and attack rome 9v8.
Attack germany 12v6, then take germany.
march army goes 2 S then SE.
2500:
attack rome 9v8
march army SE the rest E
2400:
attack rome again 9v6
march army 1 SE and end turn
2300:
take rome
attack egypt 12v6. take egypt.
2200:
everybody dance!

[Magistratas]

Good job! I kept selling the galley and taking exp gold too early. As a result kept loosing either to Rome 8:9 or to Egypt. Seeded indeed.

Speaking of seed. It appears to me that it only depends on the order of attacks (this includes exploratory gold, huts, barbs, and cities) and which units (globally) you have a the moment. It does not appear to depend on other factors such as tech being research, production setups, and locations. It also appears that some huts and barbs are more likely to give a certain item than other. I.e., a barb next to Rome was giving me a galley 9 out of 10 times.

[generic_toaster]

Good job! I kept selling the galley and taking exp gold too early. As a result kept loosing either to Rome 8:9 or to Egypt. Seeded indeed.

Speaking of seed. It appears to me that it only depends on the order of attacks (this includes exploratory gold, huts, barbs, and cities) and which units (globally) you have a the moment. It does not appear to depend on other factors such as tech being research, production setups, and locations. It also appears that some huts and barbs are more likely to give a certain item than other. I.e., a barb next to Rome was giving me a galley 9 out of 10 times.

I think you're right about the seed, but the seed can be a fickle b****!. As I figured out how to take germany a turn earlier, but then always lost against rome and I tried everything to win. And it does seem that the barb by rome is coded to give you a galley. As the only time it wouldn't give me a galley is if I didn't sell the one I had. So it looks like huts/barbs wont duplicate units, i've also seen this with caravans.

This week was especially tough and frustrating! One game I had taken everyone but egypt and was on time to get there for the walkout, but a friggin legion was in a choke point! I killed the legion, but that changed everything and egypt didn't walkout...I so glad this week is over.

[xIronFistx]

Move settler Northeast twice to hill, next turn build city. Because you're next to a barb hut, you get a free militia unit in your city for defence. Rush warrior and move east towards Rome. Walk into Rome without a fight. They have David ( or simular) in their city, join to city and enjoy free upgrades to every troop you make.