New Russian Strategy

[MorteEterna]

Ok, I gave Russia another try. I knew how to play them but didn't want to write the strategy.. Now I have got the time, then I will try to a better job than my old strategy.

Russia:

Start with local map
Ancient: +1 food from plains
Medieval: Loyalty for new units (doesn't count as veteran)
Industrial: 1/2 price riflemen
Modern: 1/2 price spies


Look at the map, and if you can see an hut near you, then you could try the horsemen rush. Choose Horseback Riding in your technology tree and take the hut moving your settler if it's not too far, then settle your capital as fast as possible in a spot with at least 2 trees and 1 grassland / plain. Russia gets the +1 food from plains then you should get maybe 1 grassland + 1 plain or 2 plains/grasslands. Water is not really important. However, if you got the horseback riding, then get this spot, if you got 25 gold, then look for 2 trees and 2 water tiles at least. After that, choose an horsemen as your first unit. Warrior is 3 turns, then it would be a waste of turns. Only 2 turns to take a barb then you can rush new horsemen. This should be the rush strategy. If you haven't got horseback, then rush a warrior and work on horseback riding, like aztecs. After that, rush horsemen and build the army as fast as possible. While you explore, be careful and if you can take a capital, take it, that's why you should build an horsemen army.

After you built the horsemen army, I would suggest to rush 1 or 2 warriors in your capital, then grow until 3 population, or work on pottery/bronze working if you haven't got enough food, or do balanced. I would prefer to have at least 2 trees and 2 grasslands or plains + grasslands mixed at least.

Do the same the cities you conquer, build 1-2 warriors to defend and to be sure you won't lose your capital to walk-ins. Then, grow to 3 population. If you are exploring with the horsemen army and you are in the front, and nothing else is behind your cities, then you can start working on 2 trees - 1 grassland and start building settlers. 2 food now should be a must for new cities, or fish if possible. A tree or maybe two to build defenses. Do the same thing also without horsemen, but instead of 2 trees - 1 grassland you can work on 2 grasslands - 1 tree waiting 4 turns, then you should rush easily 2 settlers in a row. Your aim should be pottery - masonry - irrigation if you are fast enough, plus bronze working. 2 archers per city is the maximum you should build, unless you need fast defences. All this because if you reach medieval era you have loyalty and you just need another archer to make the army with loyalty. Keep building new cities, and expand, you won't need code of laws, but after 7-8 cities you can stop expanding for a while. Work on alphabet - writing - code of laws, then restart expanding. Now to be careful, you should send an archer where you want to build the city, and set up some choke points if possible.

Keep exploring with the horsemen army if you got it, or take new capitals if you can't see many units. Or at least, use it to press your enemy. If you see archers, if you can't take the capital, then just keep killing archers and make your enemy wasting hammers or gold on defence to save his cities. If it's still alive, use it to defend your cities or to take new cities. Perhaps you could hide it after peach then wait for his settlers.

The key is expanding, maybe you understood it, however, you can still use some of the Russians bonuses. One of these is loyalty. Loyalty gives you +50% defence in your territory. I would prefer veteran but, not bad at all. What you could do with this is building a city next to your enemy then building 1-2 archers. You put workers where you put archers, and it becomes your territory (it should, I remind), then the 50% is working. Doing this way, you disrupt his production and you are pressing him, again.

Tech lead or not, keep building cities and mass expand. If there are rushers in the game like zulu, defend cities and be careful, however you should kill them with horsemen, and you can give many problems to an american player. I'm sure, a Russian player with balanced start can give many problems to Americans and could beat them in expanding. You could have 20 cities before they have 7-8 if you are fast enough, however if you get a tech lead, you are giving them many problems. If you meet americans, then you should build many units to defend agains the knight army, but remember, don't waste hammers and defend the boarders, that's the key. Don't let them spreading knight's everywhere and try to press them in this way before they do it to you. If you are far away, send 1-2 archers then wait for your settler, and use the diplomacy trick to see enemies (press A where you have explored and if the diplomacy starts, then it means there are units). If you are building a city next to them, be sure you got enough production to keep building archers.

Remember, the +1 food from plains is not bad at all, then let's talk about how you could use this at the start.
You choose a good spot with 1-2 trees, some water tiles, but at least 3 plains. If possible, with rivers, but that's not needed. They will give you at least 12 food and with rivers from 12 to 15. This means you can make this a huge city. Defend this and build a temple when possible, to improve your culture. Culture can do a good job, but don't put everything on that. Build libraries in other cities, and defend.

Let's talk about the first technology path:

Horseback Riding
Pottery
Masonry
Irrigation
Bronze working (after Horseback if needed)
Alphabet
Writing
Code of Laws
Literacy (giving you a nice science boost)

Then, you could follow monarchy - feudalism and build 1-2 knights armies to defend. With many cities you shouldn't have many problems, and your mega city should have a good production. Other bonuses you should aim for are Engeenering and Invention. Iron working could help you if you are having problems, and some legions armies can stop many rush. If you meet knights be careful, they are like archers in defence, then use catapults or knights to stop them.

While you keep doing this job, you should now go for navigation and expand to islands if you want to, this is still going to help you and you could get some artifacts, but it's not needed to win.

Then the tech path is:

Mathematics (if needed)
Monarchy
Feudalism
Iron working - Construction (if you need counters and have some hills to use)
Engeenering
Invention
Navigation
Democracy

Then, you should be in industrial era by now. 1/2 price riflemen. Not bad at all, loyalty and you pay them like archers. Really good I think. If you got a scientist, then hear me, research currency - banking and university if needed. You only need like 120 science and you can research industrialization and rush it. In this way, you are going to produce a lot of gold and beat your enemies with not many problems. If you haven't got it, then university - Gunpowder should be a good way to choose. If you got the great builder, you can rush the samurai castle and use these riflemen like knights, but with much more defence. However you can still attack cities or use fundametalism. They only cost 10 and have 3 attack and 5 defence. Not bad, really. Then, you should build some riflemen in your cities if the enemies are giving you some problems, and you should defend not hardly with these defences, unless they overwhelm you (but you know, almost nobody is going to stop an attack with more than 3-4 armies in one city)

The tech path should be then:

Currency - Banking - Industrialization (if you got the scientist)
University
Gunpowder
Steam power
Railroads
Industrialization

I would prefer railroads by now because it meas 10 gold per city, you can't use it everywhere but it's good to have it.

Corporation
Combustion (if you want to use tanks)
Communism (more production)
Modern infantry (perhaps you want to defend and go for a tech/economic/cultural win)

Hard to say what to choose now, it's so late and you should know what to do depending on the game, but remember, you got the 1/2 price spies

Yes, you can use it to do a lot of things. If you still have units next to the enemies, send a lot of spies and destroy everything and steal great people, just put units to defend them and you won't have many problems. Use only a circle or two to beat the defending one if you need, and use then spies to do the job. Don't disrupt production, that's useless. If you can destroy buildings, you are doing a good job then. However I suggest before using 1 per city or per attack. It's better to build like 10-15 then send them all in a undefended city (with no spies or only one), then you steal gold if the enemy has gotten to 4-5 economic milestones to get easily gold. Then you can use it to rush anything you want to rush. Be sure you don't attack with only one spy and do it like a surprise, don't let your enemy thinking that you are building spies. Should I talk about Sun Tzu to make you understand this better? Never let him thinking you are building what you want to build

I will add more if needed. Ask me anything

[Pedal2Metal]

I like it Morte. I think this is one of your more thorough strategies w/more detail & scenarios than usual. Nice work!

best regards,
Pedal2Metal

[MadDjinn]

don't forget to steal their gold if they have more than 2 gold milestones and are a civ that generally tries for an economic victory.

use spies wisely though. once you start using them, it won't take long for someone to build a spy ring in their cities (likey just the close one first, but expect them everywhere). so if they've gotten to 4 or 5 gold milestones, wait til you have 10 or so spies and then use them all at once on a city (keep stealing gold first, then destroy their buildings). the extra gold is nice for rushing buildings in your own cities, or more units to attack with.

though, I'd say democracy before going to engineering/Invention. unless you're already above 100 beakers/turn. (granted, if you're above 121 you'll just backfill it anyways).

[MorteEterna]

don't forget to steal their gold if they have more than 2 gold milestones and are a civ that generally tries for an economic victory.

use spies wisely though. once you start using them, it won't take long for someone to build a spy ring in their cities (likey just the close one first, but expect them everywhere). so if they've gotten to 4 or 5 gold milestones, wait til you have 10 or so spies and then use them all at once on a city (keep stealing gold first, then destroy their buildings). the extra gold is nice for rushing buildings in your own cities, or more units to attack with.

though, I'd say democracy before going to engineering/Invention. unless you're already above 100 beakers/turn. (granted, if you're above 121 you'll just backfill it anyways).

Yes, it depends on the cities, but I put democracy after that because you could still work on settlers, however you decide the tech path, it's only like an advice, and it I had to say all exceptions I would use some pages.. However I'll add it about spies, it's true. If the enemy has got many cities however, you could still press them because they have to build spies everywhere and you can keep trying to attack the right city with low defence with spies.

[Grayson]

This is kinda how I play with them, but I don't press the horserush if it's not there. But you should horserush with them whenever you get a hut, if you can't get warriors to an AI cap quick. I'll rush at least one warrior if there is a barb I can get before 3500BC if I get 25 gold from the hut. But the horserush often works, not only because it can be faster than a lot of civs ( china, aztec, and americans are all faster, but Russians can do it consistently faster than the 12 other civs if you see a hut), also not many people expect you to be rushing horses with the Russians. Actually, usually people don't know what to expect from the Russians, and they usually think you are noob for using them, which is to your advantage.

Another thing that I have been doing lately if I have more than 120 gold, is rushing granary in a city that has lots of plains, and this can work well if you are relatively safe from rushers, and can afford it, but if you only have 100 gold, then 80 gold on a granary is too costly. the Russians can pick up a lot of quick gold because they typically play the first few turns a little more effiencently than most, not wasted exploring the first 5-10 turns.

Granaries will give +4 food per plains, so you can basically have a settler pump, or a really high pop city early. If there are a bunch of hills around a lot of plains, then I try to get a settler by it after 5 techs, and then get construciton first, then build a granary, thus you have a city with +3 production per hill, and +4 food per plain, which can make for a nice city. It's an option, and it doesn't always work out, but it's nice to have. After you get to the 1000 gold mark, you get free granaries in every city, which means all your cities will be growing lightning fast once you do reach this mark, which is usually later, but often times if I'm producing a decent amount of gold, and I have a few turns to get 1000 gold, I'll save my gold till then, but usually this happens naturally with the russians, who can really work well with gold.

The big advantage they have, if you wanna call it big, or an advantage, is that after 5 techs, it's hard to kill them. After 14 techs it's even harder, and then after 24 techs, it's harder for the other guy to win, if you pull off the spy thing well. I can hold off knights pretty much everytime, unless they are super-charged knights, but counterattack usually can take care of powerful knights. Tanks aren't too much of a problem either, as you can spam cheap riflemen and slow them down indefinatly. The Russians are just plain hard to kill if they aren't left in the dust in tech.

Culture can be used to a decent extent, but I usually don't go too much out of my way to build it up, but if it's expident and swift, I'll do it and start reigning in bonuses with my larger pop cities.

I've really enjoyed playing with them lately, I wish I had more time to use them in FFA, because they are actually decent for that, not amazing, but decent. In H2H, you really need a great start, or be able to slow the other guy down, or hope he doesn't expand, it's a little tougher in H2H, but still a fun challenge. As I have said other places, you have to earn most things you get with the Russians, and that's why it's so rewarding to use them.

[Pedal2Metal]

Another thing that I have been doing lately if I have more than 120 gold, is rushing granary in a city that has lots of plains, and this can work well if you are relatively safe from rushers, and can afford it, .

Glad to see you've changed your tune a bit on early buildings. Granaries early w/Russians can be devastating. If you get an island start w/Russians, you can often totally dominate the game with only 5-6 cities. I'm really starting to think the Russians are ok. Once I feel I've gotten the Spanish down, I might start working on the Russians.

best regards,
Pedal2Metal

[MorteEterna]

Glad to see you've changed your tune a bit on early buildings. Granaries early w/Russians can be devastating. If you get an island start w/Russians, you can often totally dominate the game with only 5-6 cities. I'm really starting to think the Russians are ok. Once I feel I've gotten the Spanish down, I might start working on the Russians.

best regards,
Pedal2Metal

I played again with them and started with only a barb village. I had to defend against the japanese at the start, but I built a galley then and put in a vet warrior army. The chinese meanwhile took Thebes and had two 4 pop cities. I took Beijing with no problem, nothing in it, meanwhile I built an horsemen to explore more but the japanese killed it with a warrior and I still haven't got the free settler, however I kept exploring and found romans. I got like 200 gold or more thank's to them.. The player quit I don't know why then I could exploit them. I took 1 japanese city also with nothing in it (it was an island) and got a production city with 3 hills and 1 forest, and built an elite knight army with march, blitz and scout. The japanese quit and the chinese tried to attack one of my new cities with a catapult and archer army.. I moved the knight army and killed both, then he quit and I won. However, I was doing a great job because I could expand whenever I wanted to, and before COL it's really easy to do. Russia is ok, as I said, every civ just needs somebody to work on them

PS: I also build some granaries in more than one city, and it helps a lot. After 7-8 population the production comes itself and you can have at least 7-8 production depending on the city, then temples can help in culture a bit. Working only on it is bad but it's going to help with few cities, having then more great people

[elthrasher]

Cool strat. I didn't know you could get a tech before settling though. I have never had that happen to me. I thought you'd always just get 25 gold if you hit a friendly before settling. Guess I'll keep trying.

I tried it out a couple times last night on deity. Had to restart twice to get a friendly on my map (therein lies the problem). It ended up being a lot like American horserush with a weak GP start (like an artist). I got two caps each game, so that's a reasonably good showing. I seem to get Russians all the time on random, so I'm sure I'll get a chance to try this out on MP soon!

[RDespair]

I've been using Russia a lot lately and have been doing really well with playing them aggressively. Even though most of their bonuses don't seem like much, being able to see a larger part of the map right from the start can be just the speed boost you need to defeat a close opponent before they get their defenses in place. Like in one game, I was on a peninsula, but thanks to the map, I was able to move, grab a goodie hut and then settle next to a barbarian hut. Grab the hut with a warrior, discover that I'm really close to Thebes, rush out a couple more warriors with the barb hut and voila, Thebes was mine. Whereas if I had stayed in place at the beginning, I would have gotten off to a slow start that I probably wouldn't have been able to recover from.

Now admittedly, Russia is susceptible to bad luck just like everyone else. Another game, I ended up having both the Zulus & Germans attacking my capital in the first 15 turns and my warrior army fell to their 2 warrior armies & single veteran knight.

[Grayson]

Yes, the Russians can have unlucky starts just like everyone else. If you don't see huts, then you'll have to work for your start. You can still try to move the settlers if you're desperate, but this seems very risky, although I have pulled it off a few times.

But the local area map can still work for you if you have barb villages in sight. These can act like lookouts, epecially if you are teching HBR. This early in the game, unless they know right where you are, others will try to get the huts. If you start seeing flags disappear, then you should know that they are close, and may be coming for you.

Also, as I stated, the map makes you a little more effiicent, which is nice, because the Russians often need whatever help they can get, because unless they get a hut, they really don't have anymore potential swings in momentum from their era bonuses alone.

They don't get any tech/trade bonuses, and don't have any offensive bonuses, which makes them a harder civ to learn. The more popular civs usually either have something that makes tech/gold easier, or gives a nice offensive tech as an era bonus.

But, since you have so many defensive and growth bonuses, you are very compensated in that area, so you can overcompensate a little more on aggressive manoevours and still be able to defend.

[antone821]

Russia I think is the hardest civ to attack with there near limitless manpower. I use the riflemen for everything, attack, defense, camping there is no limit to what you can do. They are probaly the most generic civ in the game with none of the tech powers and are hard to use. I consider myself pretty good with them and win most of my ffa games with then and even beat chinese and american players granted they are junk players but still. Like you all said theyre only weakness is the fall behind tech wise. The only way I can think to stop that is expand but that can be hard. I think you guys underrate them but there are definatly better civs out there but I think they are not one of the worst.

[Grayson]

No, I stilll think they are one of the worst civs, but are just so plain, that it's really fun to play with them sometimes. They can have a good start, and are tough to kill at times, but make no mistake about any of our comments here, I think they are still one of the 3-4 worst civs in the game, and I think a lot of ppl agree with that.

But, in the right hands, and with enough expirience, there are ways to use them to not lose, and then win more on your own skill.

I still group them in with France, and Mongols as the worst civs.

[RDespair]

Won 2 more FFA games as Russia this morning. First game, got the 7 Cities of Gold early on so it was pretty much a pushover. Second game, got a galley in 3600BC which revealed that the AI Spain was nearby. Got a galley walk-in on Madrid in 3400BC getting Navigation. It was still touch and go for a little while since I had the Arabs nearby, but he ended up quitting when he discovered that my 2 capitals were well defended & I had a noticeable tech advantage over him. The funny thing is that if he had just spend 2-3 turns moving his horseman army south, he would have discovered my 3rd city (double whales, oh yeah!) which was completely unguarded which would have put him back in the game.

[Pedal2Metal]

The funny thing is that if he had just spend 2-3 turns moving his horseman army south, he would have discovered my 3rd city (double whales, oh yeah!) which was completely unguarded which would have put him back in the game.

Yep, early map exploration is key in most games so you can actually formulate a sensible strategy.

thanks & best regards,
Pedal2Metal

[MorteEterna]

It seems to work but.. Is there anything I miss in the strategy perhaps? Sometimes I write the strategy but when I play it I do something more, and here I could miss some details.. True about Russia being a bit defensive and can't do so much after medieval in tech, BUT remember, the start is what can change them. Don't mind about bad start and you will see they are good at rushing, and rushing is what makes them powerful.

PS: Who said they are slower than Chinese is wrong, because China needs gold or luck to horse rush as fast as Americans. Instead Russia can see at least 1 hut / village in the map and that is going to give you in 5-6 turns 30-50 gold (unless you are unlucky) plus horseback.

[Pedal2Metal]

The primary advantage of the Chinese is reliability, not speed. They can always produce a horsemen army by 2700 BC w/30 gold only (& 1 warrior) & have it 4 squares away from their capital. No other civ has this kind of repeatability w/minimal luck required. However, I do agree most of the times, it's not hard to get a little luck so it's largely a moot point.

best regards,
Pedal2Metal