MadDjinn
06-24-2009, 03:20 PM
Mongol Strategy Supplemental
This is another batch of information that is meant to supplement the original thread here:
http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35192
Horse rushing
The Mongol horse rush is a bit slower than most civs due to the usual lack of gold. Additionally, to get it moving faster you need a goodie hut to give it to you rather than researching it. Not all is lost though, as your Keshik army will be needed most games for defense and taking on the AI. In general, don’t use a single keshik army against a human opponent unless you know they are not going to defend themselves in time. The AI’s are easily able to be horse rushed well into 0 AD with 2 or more keshiks. Just remember that the later you make the keshiks, the longer you'll have to pick off wandering units to get to vet (or use hills) before taking down a cap. If a cap defends too well, move on and get peace. Second cities and the human opponents expansions are all able to be attacked with Keshiks as they are unlikely to have archer armies already. If you get the infiltration upgrade, you’ll be at 12 attack, 18 on a hill. So it’s very plausible to take out expansion cities that didn’t come with a vet archer army in tow. Even if it did, your job is done as they are wasting their production/cash on static defenses.
This section is for post-kicking out warriors, so I won't repeat that part. Here are a few ways to get keshik armies out. The mongols have options, unlike everyone else, and each one works situationally.
For All Cases
In each of the following options, once you start teching HBR, avoid goodie huts until you're done teching. nothing is more annoying than getting 12/20 or more beakers done and then getting it from a goodie hut. it's a waste. if this happens, just hang out by the goodie hut until you're done teching then take it (usually get gold this way). if there's a concern about someone else getting it, stop teching HBR for the turns it takes to get there and make gold instead. switching techs rarely prevents getting HBR.
Option Uno (Fast tech):
Once the 2nd warrior is finished building (3500BC) if you’ve spotted a goodie hut leave your 2 workers on forests to make Stonehenge and grab the hut. if you don’t get HBR from a hut early, then set both workers to tech. Set each new barb hut (or taken city) to tech to speed up getting HBR. Provided there are close barb huts, you'll get HBR before 3000BC. At that point, switch your cap to production (also other caps) and barbs to gold.
notes:
1) I’ve found that it’s usually a good idea to spend the extra 2 turns on 2 tiles of forest to store the production before teching HBR. This also saves you the hassle of finding a goodie hut after 2 turns of teching. If someone comes to visit, you can switch back to warriors fairly quickly. If not, then you’ve already got 2 turns worth of prod saved for the first Keshik.
2) This option works if you have 1-2 barb huts and can't find a good hut (not goodie) within a few turns and you need HBR fast so that you can start spending gold. (if you got naming tiles or were handed the 7cities on a platter) or if you got a walkin on an cap with a warrior. You'll be stuck with 1-2 keshik making cities and the rest storing gold, so ensure to spend the gold as fast as possible in case someone wanders in and takes a barb hut from you. (since they'll get a bit of gold)
Option Secondi: (slow tech)
Use your two+warriors to go get barb huts. Have your cap store production into the Stonehenge. That'll give you up to 50 prod stored (2.5 keshiks) if you're teching really really slowly via barb huts. Have all barb huts set to tech HBR as you take them. the more huts you grab, the faster the snowball rolls to getting HBR. walkin on a cap speeds this up nicely.
Switch to keshik production (cap + extra cap if you got a walkin) and all barb huts to gold.
Notes:
a) This is a good strat if you only find 'tech' barb huts early. they can do the teching while you store prod in the cap which is the safest play if there are really early aggressors around (close human, or the usual suspects). You don't lose anything if you lose a hut and you can always switch back to warriors if someone gets too close to your cap.
Option Thrice: (best start)
Your best option is available when you find barb huts that have 2 forests and a grassland tile close to your cap. Grow to 2 pop in the barb cities and then set both workers to store production in stonehenge (along with your cap). Use the other barb cities to start researching HBR. After you get it (see notes) set all other cities to gold production until the first 4 keshiks are out. (1 army and the start of the 2nd army) With this set up you will have a full Keshik army every 5 turns or less depending on the cash you have. It’s best to get 2 or more Keshik armies going, unless you notice your opponent is massively teching by the time you get the second army out. Don't worry, you'll catch up after grabbing some cities. Though, if you know where 2-3 of the AIs’ are at, then another keshik army is worth it.
notes:
i) Set the single plains tile cities to grow after the first keshik army is out as it takes 10 turns to grow and the extra 2 gold/turn will be less useful than the 4 beakers/turn later. For tech cities with grasslands, you can wait until the 2nd keshik army is out before switching to growth since it only takes 5 turns.
ii) The number of keshik armies to produce is situational. if your opponent isn't getting aggressive with the AI, then 2 is good. If they are, maybe more will be useful since they won't be teching much either. It also depends on how many keshik producing cities you have:
1-2 = 1 keshik army, maybe 2 if you've got enough gold income.
3-4 = 2-3 keshik armies. Situationally dependant (distance, etc)
4+ = 3+ keshik armies. you've got the production, so use it.
Once you are satisfied with the number of keshik armies out and about, go back to the starting strat and continue teching.
Mongol Economics
In ancient, 2 gold = 1 hammer. so for every water tile you work in the non-Keshik producing cities, you effectively add a hammer to your production city. Rush each Keshik as needed, but if you have the time to spare, only rush the keshik when you are at 2-3 turns left to completion (at 4 hammers/turn it takes 5 turns to make a keshik). This will minimize your expense of gold.
Don't forget that in a taken city, one water tile = 3g. So if you have a choice of 6g or 4 prod, take the prod since it's 8g. (unless it's soo far away as to be too slow, but it shouldn't be since you got a walkin).
In general though, check how much gold you’re production each turn. For each 2 gold/turn, you drop 1 turn off the time it takes to make the Keshik. Ie, if you work a one tile barb hut for 4 turns you’ll have 8 gold. At the same time 4 turns of 2 forests means you only need 8 gold to rush. This means the more huts/water tiles being work = faster Keshik production.
If you can get to 8 gold per turn (very feasible), then you’ll have 2 Keshik out every 5 turns = 8 turns for an army from a single city. Else, from 3 cities it's 4 turns/Keshik army and a bit of gold left over. Parallel production is the best.
This is another batch of information that is meant to supplement the original thread here:
http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35192
Horse rushing
The Mongol horse rush is a bit slower than most civs due to the usual lack of gold. Additionally, to get it moving faster you need a goodie hut to give it to you rather than researching it. Not all is lost though, as your Keshik army will be needed most games for defense and taking on the AI. In general, don’t use a single keshik army against a human opponent unless you know they are not going to defend themselves in time. The AI’s are easily able to be horse rushed well into 0 AD with 2 or more keshiks. Just remember that the later you make the keshiks, the longer you'll have to pick off wandering units to get to vet (or use hills) before taking down a cap. If a cap defends too well, move on and get peace. Second cities and the human opponents expansions are all able to be attacked with Keshiks as they are unlikely to have archer armies already. If you get the infiltration upgrade, you’ll be at 12 attack, 18 on a hill. So it’s very plausible to take out expansion cities that didn’t come with a vet archer army in tow. Even if it did, your job is done as they are wasting their production/cash on static defenses.
This section is for post-kicking out warriors, so I won't repeat that part. Here are a few ways to get keshik armies out. The mongols have options, unlike everyone else, and each one works situationally.
For All Cases
In each of the following options, once you start teching HBR, avoid goodie huts until you're done teching. nothing is more annoying than getting 12/20 or more beakers done and then getting it from a goodie hut. it's a waste. if this happens, just hang out by the goodie hut until you're done teching then take it (usually get gold this way). if there's a concern about someone else getting it, stop teching HBR for the turns it takes to get there and make gold instead. switching techs rarely prevents getting HBR.
Option Uno (Fast tech):
Once the 2nd warrior is finished building (3500BC) if you’ve spotted a goodie hut leave your 2 workers on forests to make Stonehenge and grab the hut. if you don’t get HBR from a hut early, then set both workers to tech. Set each new barb hut (or taken city) to tech to speed up getting HBR. Provided there are close barb huts, you'll get HBR before 3000BC. At that point, switch your cap to production (also other caps) and barbs to gold.
notes:
1) I’ve found that it’s usually a good idea to spend the extra 2 turns on 2 tiles of forest to store the production before teching HBR. This also saves you the hassle of finding a goodie hut after 2 turns of teching. If someone comes to visit, you can switch back to warriors fairly quickly. If not, then you’ve already got 2 turns worth of prod saved for the first Keshik.
2) This option works if you have 1-2 barb huts and can't find a good hut (not goodie) within a few turns and you need HBR fast so that you can start spending gold. (if you got naming tiles or were handed the 7cities on a platter) or if you got a walkin on an cap with a warrior. You'll be stuck with 1-2 keshik making cities and the rest storing gold, so ensure to spend the gold as fast as possible in case someone wanders in and takes a barb hut from you. (since they'll get a bit of gold)
Option Secondi: (slow tech)
Use your two+warriors to go get barb huts. Have your cap store production into the Stonehenge. That'll give you up to 50 prod stored (2.5 keshiks) if you're teching really really slowly via barb huts. Have all barb huts set to tech HBR as you take them. the more huts you grab, the faster the snowball rolls to getting HBR. walkin on a cap speeds this up nicely.
Switch to keshik production (cap + extra cap if you got a walkin) and all barb huts to gold.
Notes:
a) This is a good strat if you only find 'tech' barb huts early. they can do the teching while you store prod in the cap which is the safest play if there are really early aggressors around (close human, or the usual suspects). You don't lose anything if you lose a hut and you can always switch back to warriors if someone gets too close to your cap.
Option Thrice: (best start)
Your best option is available when you find barb huts that have 2 forests and a grassland tile close to your cap. Grow to 2 pop in the barb cities and then set both workers to store production in stonehenge (along with your cap). Use the other barb cities to start researching HBR. After you get it (see notes) set all other cities to gold production until the first 4 keshiks are out. (1 army and the start of the 2nd army) With this set up you will have a full Keshik army every 5 turns or less depending on the cash you have. It’s best to get 2 or more Keshik armies going, unless you notice your opponent is massively teching by the time you get the second army out. Don't worry, you'll catch up after grabbing some cities. Though, if you know where 2-3 of the AIs’ are at, then another keshik army is worth it.
notes:
i) Set the single plains tile cities to grow after the first keshik army is out as it takes 10 turns to grow and the extra 2 gold/turn will be less useful than the 4 beakers/turn later. For tech cities with grasslands, you can wait until the 2nd keshik army is out before switching to growth since it only takes 5 turns.
ii) The number of keshik armies to produce is situational. if your opponent isn't getting aggressive with the AI, then 2 is good. If they are, maybe more will be useful since they won't be teching much either. It also depends on how many keshik producing cities you have:
1-2 = 1 keshik army, maybe 2 if you've got enough gold income.
3-4 = 2-3 keshik armies. Situationally dependant (distance, etc)
4+ = 3+ keshik armies. you've got the production, so use it.
Once you are satisfied with the number of keshik armies out and about, go back to the starting strat and continue teching.
Mongol Economics
In ancient, 2 gold = 1 hammer. so for every water tile you work in the non-Keshik producing cities, you effectively add a hammer to your production city. Rush each Keshik as needed, but if you have the time to spare, only rush the keshik when you are at 2-3 turns left to completion (at 4 hammers/turn it takes 5 turns to make a keshik). This will minimize your expense of gold.
Don't forget that in a taken city, one water tile = 3g. So if you have a choice of 6g or 4 prod, take the prod since it's 8g. (unless it's soo far away as to be too slow, but it shouldn't be since you got a walkin).
In general though, check how much gold you’re production each turn. For each 2 gold/turn, you drop 1 turn off the time it takes to make the Keshik. Ie, if you work a one tile barb hut for 4 turns you’ll have 8 gold. At the same time 4 turns of 2 forests means you only need 8 gold to rush. This means the more huts/water tiles being work = faster Keshik production.
If you can get to 8 gold per turn (very feasible), then you’ll have 2 Keshik out every 5 turns = 8 turns for an army from a single city. Else, from 3 cities it's 4 turns/Keshik army and a bit of gold left over. Parallel production is the best.