Will Leaderboard be reset on release of new patch? [Archive]

The Liberated

07-23-2008, 12:31 PM

deadbuffalo

07-23-2008, 01:09 PM

I think they should be.... I question some of the records of top players on the FFA leaderboard on XBox.

Eh, the records of the top players on the FFA Xbox seem fine to me. Considering the number of games where people quit as soon as they lose a unit or a city, and that coming in 2nd (i think) doesn't count as a loss, you can get quite high in the rankings without facing any real opposition. At least that has been my progress for the most part. Also keep in mind some people have been playing since early june.

Disconnects happen to everyone; the more games you play the more disconnects you get. I bet everyone in the top 500 's losses are 90% from freezes/disconnects.

I don't think a reset is necessary, the best players will get tons of ranking points for defeating the top ranked players. If the two groups of players are the same then the boards will stay the same, if not, then we'll see a shakeup eventually :).

ben666satan

07-23-2008, 01:10 PM

I hope so after they fix the freezes..

I know I would be in the top 100 without the freezes.. Yet I sit at 500 something cause of all the losses I accumlate from the game freezing even though I was clearly ahead..

Why can't it freeze when I Loose? Though I think I have lost 2 times before in actual playing and about 15 in freezing.

I don't agree with this necessarily because freezes are affecting everyone... But some of the top ten ranks in FFA are surprising. Given the random nature of this game it's hard to believe a 1000% win/loss ratio is possible without cheesing.

ben666satan

07-23-2008, 01:13 PM

Eh, the records of the top players on the FFA Xbox seem fine to me. Considering the number of games where people quit as soon as they lose a unit or a city, and that coming in 2nd (i think) doesn't count as a loss, you can get quite high in the rankings without facing any real opposition. At least that has been my progress for the most part. Also keep in mind some people have been playing since early june.

Disconnects happen to everyone; the more games you play the more disconnects you get. I bet everyone in the top 500 's losses are 90% from freezes/disconnects.

I don't think a reset is necessary, the best players will get tons of ranking points for defeating the top ranked players. If the two groups of players are the same then the boards will stay the same, if not, then we'll see a shakeup eventually :).

Coming in 2nd doesn't count as a loss? That's interesting, can anyone confirm this?

Phantom11392

07-23-2008, 01:17 PM

They should reset the leaderboards. Alot of people have gotten alot of loses because of the buggy online. Also Europe got a headstart on the leaderboards againast us.

2K Elizabeth

07-23-2008, 01:23 PM

as of right now (and this is pretty firmly 100% definite) we are not resetting the leaderboards, not at patch, and probably not ever. i know a lot of people can make cases for fairness and unfairness based on your own personal experience, but the decision we have come to is not to reset them.

this is not because we don't care -- it's what we deem fairest for all gamer's overall -- and i'd rather end the debate rather than stay silent, even if i may catch some flak from some of you.

please feel free to ask questions and give me that flak (please try not to insult anyone!) and i'll try and answer as much as i can.

ben666satan

07-23-2008, 01:24 PM

I take it back, I guess people just know good ways to get a jump and win every game. I just lost to the guy ranked #11, over 1000% win ratio and he didn't seem to be using any exploits.

2K Elizabeth

07-23-2008, 01:32 PM

I take it back, I guess people just know good ways to get a jump and win every game. I just lost to the guy ranked #11, over 1000% win ratio and he didn't seem to be using any exploits.

i do not believe everyone in the top 10 is using an exploit to get there. i know one of them personally and while i am not at his house every time he plays, i'm relatively certain he's not exploiting anything (other than the tricks and tips of playing the game.)

also, any exploits in MP i do find out about that i can fix, either in code or with gamespy/microsoft, i do. we do everything in our power to fix any way to cheat a fair game.

ben666satan

07-23-2008, 01:40 PM

as of right now (and this is pretty firmly 100% definite) we are not resetting the leaderboards, not at patch, and probably not ever.

I think this is a shame if true, it would be nice to recognize the top players somehow and reset the leaderboards, at some point. Blizzard strategy games have resets every so often, not more frequently than once a year - this works in with their efforts to generate enthusiasm in their community by inviting the top ladder players to a tournament or offering signed copies of games and whatnot. Also it gives a fresh start to the player base and offers a chance for everyone to believe again (for a while) they have a shot at the top of the ladder.

Maybe after a year, send out t-shirts or games signed by Sid Meier to the top ten and do a reset. I'm pretty sure the community would love this, and the enthusiasm this sort of stuff generates pays off in the long term.

eireksten

07-23-2008, 01:49 PM

i do not believe everyone in the top 10 is using an exploit to get there. i know one of them personally and while i am not at his house every time he plays, i'm relatively certain he's not exploiting anything (other than the tricks and tips of playing the game.)

also, any exploits in MP i do find out about that i can fix, either in code or with gamespy/microsoft, i do. we do everything in our power to fix any way to cheat a fair game.

When you have a closer look at the PS3 multiplayer leaderboards (FFA), how do you explain what has happened to the ratings of all the people ranked from about 2400 and below (those with ratings less than 1000)?

I simply can't see any logical explanation as to why their ratings are as they are!

edit:

It appears that while everyone else has their ratings normalized around 1200, these people got theirs around 0. And yes, their records are similar to those with "normal" ratings.

Rated at 0 seems to be a lot of people with record 0-0. Could it be that everytime the game won't post a win/loss at a players first time, he/she is set to rating 0? I would think that is wrong, and he/she should've gotten 1200...

eireksten

07-23-2008, 01:56 PM

Since I'm one of these people with their ratings screwed up, it will probably ruin much of the fun for me playing ranked matches.

I therefore think you should present a valid explanation as to why this isn't caused by a bug (that is, how are these ratings valid), or you should consider fixing (or resetting) the leaderboards, at least on the PS3.

edit:

And my record on the leaderboards states 3-0 (on wins-losses), so I simply won't buy an explanation saying that I've lost all those rating points due to poor play.

edit 2:

I just noticed that my rating on the H2H is -1 (negative!!). This being a ladder ranking system, I'm pretty sure that this is an impossible/illegal rating.

The Panguin

07-23-2008, 02:10 PM

I really liked the one persons suggestion of maybe once a year resetting the leaderboards. Even if you didn't go all the way and do prizes and the likes I think it'd be a really good idea. It definitely would keep playing a lot longer then they will as things stand now, and personally it seems reasonable to me to give North American players a fair playing field. After all the Europeans have had a month head start on us. =/ Would be nice if we had a chance to get into the top 50 even without having to spend entire days dedicated solely to playing games. >_>;

2K Elizabeth

07-23-2008, 02:14 PM

i'll bring up the once a year reset/recognition thing. that's an interesting idea -- i don't know if it's something we are going to do, but it's interesting.

ben666satan

07-23-2008, 02:21 PM

i'll bring up the once a year reset/recognition thing. that's an interesting idea -- i don't know if it's something we are going to do, but it's interesting.

This is what Blizzard has done with Starcraft/Warcraft 3 online play on Battle.Net... I would say that it's easy to see that with a small amount of effort you can re-energize the player base for your current game 8 months or a year down the line, perhaps selling a few more copies, but moreso by doing this sort of thing you generate incredible gamer loyalty. If ladder play can stay fresh so I'm hooked on your game for over a year its a guarantee I'll buy the next game you put out. Blizzard games have thriving online communities 5+ years after release, and it's all because of ladder play.

eireksten

07-23-2008, 02:23 PM

I'm feeling a tad ignored here... My "rants" aren't caused by me being mad at having a bad rating (though it doesn't help).

It is quite obvious that several people have gotten wrong ratings, at least on the PS3. I'm currently finishing a masters degree in computer engineering, I think I should know enough mathematics to get this right...

Right now I'm simply sad that much of the point in playing ranked games is gone for me, and for several other PS3 players. The fact that you (seemingly) won't even have a closer look at it disappoints me :(

I'm not asking for a reset, I'm asking for the "wrong" ratings to be fixed, or at least that someone takes a closer look at them.

edit: Sorry about nagging, but I've tried to bring this up on several occasions, and has never been heard...

2K Elizabeth

07-23-2008, 02:30 PM

alfadir

07-23-2008, 02:31 PM

eireksten

07-23-2008, 02:34 PM

hey there,

i'm not ignoring you, and it's not that you aren't being heard. you are. if we find a problem, we will patch it.

i have to give a blanket no to fixing or resetting individual scores for obvious reasons. but i can look into problems and help the team fix them.

It's good to hear. I'm 100% sure there is a problem there for a lot of players, and that they don't deserve the rating they've got.

If leaderboards aren't going to be reset, I find it even more important to localize and fix this problem, as it greatly affects much of the point in playing ranked.

PrivateJohn

07-23-2008, 02:58 PM

i'll bring up the once a year reset/recognition thing. that's an interesting idea -- i don't know if it's something we are going to do, but it's interesting.
Since we Europe got the game first, now that it's release everywhere else in the world. Perhaps a reset is probably fair to everyone. (although I am currently in top 5-10:p )

Just make sure there is a new patch out for the game, hopefully some tweak to the game. Goto admit there are quite a few least favourable Civilization in the game.

deadbuffalo

07-23-2008, 03:06 PM

I also now have a question.

You said that leaderbaords won't ever be reset? This means that any new players that come to the game will be "stuck" at the bottom compared to the rest of us that have had the game awhile? How is that a working ladder if whoever plays the most stays at the top?

Actually, the way it works is that you gain more points from defeating a higher rated player than you would from defeating a lower rated player. Furthermore its proportional to your own rating. Conversely, losing to a high rated player means you lose less than if you lose to someone playing their very first game.

Theoretical examples: I have a rating of 1000, I defeat the number 1 player who has a rating of 2000. My rating goes up to 1500, his rating drops 500 and he is no longer #1. (note, the amount gained does not necessarily = the amount lost. )

I play another game against a player who has lost 100 consecutive matches and has a rating of 10. I win and my rating goes up 1 point.

Note these numbers are made up, but thats how the rankings stay dynamic.

alfadir

07-23-2008, 03:13 PM

so if someone gets lucky, they can just sit at spot 1 and never play another game and hold their spot?

worst ladder ever still?

eireksten

07-23-2008, 04:13 PM

so if someone gets lucky, they can just sit at spot 1 and never play another game and hold their spot?

worst ladder ever still?

Well, when people play more and more games, chances are that the highest rating will increase. So to stop playing will most likely lose you your rating.

On most ladders (that doesn't reset), being inactive for some time removes you from the leaderboards. You'd have to continue playing to get your score back on the boards. I don't know how it works here, though.

ben666satan

07-24-2008, 10:16 AM

I also want yearly reset of leaderboard for the fact that its more exciting to play ranked matches when you are "in the hunt" for top ranks. A year onward when enthusiasm for this game has naturally waned a bit, a leaderboard reset will help re-energize the community for this game.

xbman22x

07-24-2008, 12:15 PM

i think that they should be reset. my record is much worse than it should be because of connection problems.it never seems to record a win when everyone else drops, but when i drop it ALWAYS records a loss. but unless you have time to play hundreds of games your not going to be anywhere near the top anyway. the best players with the most time will find a way to get back up there eventually. resetting them will only motivate them more......

Leo

07-24-2008, 01:46 PM

most ladders like this have a 'rating decay' system, whereby you lose points for inactivity, preventing someone from sitting on a rank and never playing against his peers.

MorteEterna

07-29-2008, 07:51 AM

Can some mods tell us if there will be a reset after there won't be freezen and disconnected games? I hope because I have lost maybe more than 1500 skill and I nobody can do something

jeffrocksteady

07-29-2008, 09:02 AM

Read the whole thread, or at least a few back pages and the answer to your very mysteriously phrased question will be answered.

Let's play a H2H to see who gets to join up with PrivateJohn...just kidding!!!

Later Gator...

Dasein X37

frank_littleff

07-29-2008, 09:42 AM

Coming in 2nd doesn't count as a loss? That's interesting, can anyone confirm this?

i doubt it. i was winning a game with only 2 of us left, the game froze, i had to leave, i got a defeat. bless the other player he even mailed and asked why i left when it was obvious i was going to win.

this is another thing that seriously chips away at my will to play this game. spending 2 or 3 hours, being close to winning, then wham, faulty game strikes again and it's all gone to waste, i slip back down the leaderboard and i wonder why i wasn't more disposed to say, chess.