Aspects of Floating Buildings

[Muskel]

First off, I love them. They are beautiful. I can't stop thinking how they tick. Maybe you can help me speculate. Or just chime in to tell Irrational how cool they are.


Someone is driving that thing. Who gets to drive it? How do they drive it? I imagine some sort of control room is there, and I hope it shows up in the game. Imagine how that would look.


They must have a power supply. Generators?


Those balloons need gas. So there has to be some place to store this on board. Has to be alot of it too. I don't see them pulling up to a gas pump. I can see a big explosion happening with that.


What about this "deathstar" quote? What type of hell with this thing unleash? Or did it just fall on the capital building?


Do they land on the ground? How do you get on there?


That is just a few questions I have. Discuss?

[pixelshock]

There is the possibility that some sort of non-renewable fuel is exploited as the main source of energy for the city to retain the floating cities in the sky, otherwise as you said using fossil fuels which would burn at a significant rate, would only force them to land on the ground to get more supply (opposing the fact that the city has been missing for quite a while).

[pixelshock]

pixelshock said:

There is the possibility that some sort of non-renewable fuel is exploited as the main source of energy for the city to retain the floating cities in the sky, otherwise as you said using fossil fuels which would burn at a significant rate, would only force them to land on the ground to get more supply (opposing the fact that the city has been missing for quite a while).



I meant to say " renewable fuel", sorry for any misunderstanding.

[Muskel]

True. That has to be it. A non-renewable energy source. There is some sort of tank with hoses going to each burner. I don't see that building landing on the ground now, it has to stay airborne.


Funny, I never thought of that building being "missing". I was thinking that they were built...project icarus.


I really wonder how you get up there. One of the buildings is a hotel, so they have visitors.

[pixelshock]

muskellounger said:

True. That has to be it. A non-renewable energy source. There is some sort of tank with hoses going to each burner. I don't see that building landing on the ground now, it has to stay airborne.

Funny, I never thought of that building being "missing". I was thinking that they were built...project icarus.

I really wonder how you get up there. One of the buildings is a hotel, so they have visitors.



According to what you said, you meant renewable because if it was non-renewable there will always be a continuous shortage of fuel. I mean just imagine how much energy each building would consume.


Or it could be that among the inhabitants a few scientists/ chemists discovered a method to artificially create non-renewable fuels.

[Jub8Jub]

From what I seen in the trailer they have propellers on the bottom. I have only seen one with the balloons and it is the one floating up.


I have read somewhere that each section could come apart and move around. So someone could be driving it, otherwise they are floating in the wind.

[pixelshock]

jub8jub said:

From what I seen in the trailer they have propellers on the bottom. I have only seen one with the balloons and it is the one floating up.

I have read somewhere that each section could come apart and move around. So someone could be driving it, otherwise they are floating in the wind.

If the city was floating in the wind then there wouldn't be any sense of direction nor would the city retain the same altitude without the balloons functioning as hot air balloons.

[Muskel]

Yeah, that would take a massive amount of fuel. There has to be more to it than that. Those buildings were hovering without those burners cooking. Helium or Hydrogen? I'm willing to bet it's an invented type of method.


Those propellers have to be a supplement to some other source. Maybe they just stabilize it.

[Jub8Jub]

pixelshock said:If the city was floating in the wind then there wouldn't be any sense of direction nor would the city retain the same altitude without the balloons functioning as hot air balloons.


I was talking about the buildings that branch off. Someone could fly the section to another part of the town. Or no one is taking care of it and the building flies off by itself.


About the generator. Maybe It's like "Atlas Shrugged", where there is a generator that runs on static electricity from the atmosphere.

[pixelshock]

muskellounger said:

Yeah, that would take a massive amount of fuel. There has to be more to it than that. Those buildings were hovering without those burners cooking. Helium or Hydrogen? I'm willing to bet it's an invented type of method.

Those propellers have to be a supplement to some other source. Maybe they just stabilize it.

Well said, helium could very well be an efficient source. Nuclear plants, anybody?

[sh0dan]

^ Nah I think the power source is something much darker and terrifying. The Alpha's (mechanical men) have what looks like human hearts visible through a little port hole. Why does it need that? unless it is a power source.


Apply that on a much grander scale for the city.


What if one of the themes of the new game might be technology versus biology?

It was a pretty big theme in SS2 as well.

[pixelshock]

jub8jub said:



pixelshock said:If the city was floating in the wind then there wouldn't be any sense of direction nor would the city retain the same altitude without the balloons functioning as hot air balloons.



I was talking about the buildings that branch off. Someone could fly the section to another part of the town. Or no one is taking care of it and the building flies off by itself.

About the generator. Maybe It's like "Atlas Shrugged", where there is a generator that runs on static electricity from the atmosphere.



I really wouldn't think the Columbian inhabitants would be careless to see the city shrinking in size before their eyes (unless it is a reference to the conflict between the people which Ken had mentioned), but the better possibility as you said is that the city can be fully re-assembled somehow.


About the generator, that's a good idea, but also it could be a series of resources. Knowing that Elizabeth can manipulate the weather conditions, perhaps the atmospheric electric discharges from a stormy weather can be conserved, or maybe thermal columns along be implemented wind turbines can also do the job.


This got me thinking that the only source of water for the Columbians is rain, which is definitely unstable due to natural environmental changes (unless again this is where Elizabeth plays a major role), therefore can be a bit of a problem.

[pixelshock]

sh0dan said:

^ Nah I think the power source is something much darker and terrifying. The Alpha's (mechanical men) have what looks like human hearts visible through a little port hole. Why does it need that? unless it is a power source.

Apply that on a much grander scale for the city.

What if one of the themes of the new game might be technology versus biology?

It was a pretty big theme in SS2 as well.

Then as I said it must be some form of unknown renewable energy.

[undeniably]

I posted this in another thread but it's such a good article and hilariously relevant to both Bioshocks (and totally real too, this is the magazine version of an academic article).


Floating Utopias by China Mieville:

http://www.inthesetimes.org/article/3328/floating_utopias/ ('http://www.inthesetimes.org/article/3328/floating_utopias/')

[iglegacy_rapture]

Solar energy.


It can be used to not only power the buildings but also power some kind of machine that gathers helium from the atmosphere for the balloons. To get said gasses they would have to travel 50+ miles up which I don't think is possible for balloon buildings, but it is a video game anything is possible.


(Going off pixelshocks idea) If Elizabeth isn't the only one who can use powers to control weather well then that power can be used to get lightning to hit a certain building that then converts the energy into usable power source. But, that still doesn't account for the need of helium or hydrogen. If they can reach a certain altitude in the sky both are abundant which they can then harness what they need.

[Muskel]

undeniably said:<P>I posted this in another thread but it's such a good article and hilariously relevant to both Bioshocks (and totally real too, this is the magazine version of an academic article).</P>

<P sizcache="44" sizset="137">Floating Utopias by China Mieville:
http://www.inthesetimes.org/article/3328/floating_utopias/ </P>


Nice find! Thanks for that. You guys gotta check this out.


This "Freedom Ship" is a real life Bioshock. Liberals escaping to their own utopia, with a jail ran by an FBI agent. Gee, what could go wrong? An in-house abortionist? It's called...Bioshock!


Maybe that's the "hold" they got on Elizabeth. She powers the city. Without her, it falls to the ground? There is a lot of possibilities as far as weather goes for resources. 1.21 Gigawatts! Giving Irrationals attention to these type of questions in Bioshock, I'm sure this all will be well thought out.


Solar energy would be good. Of course the sun has to be out. You can save the energy it creates for night time using a rock storage. It would have to be pretty big, and real heavy. It's typically dug below basements where the ambient temperature does not affect it. I don't see any rock storage places in those buildings. But...this is fiction. It's still fun figuring it out :)

[undeniably]

muskellounger said:

Nice find! Thanks for that. You guys gotta check this out.

This "Freedom Ship" is a real life Bioshock. Liberals escaping to their own utopia, with a jail ran by an FBI agent. Gee, what could go wrong? An in-house abortionist? It's called...Bioshock!

Maybe that's the "hold" they got on Elizabeth. She powers the city. Without her, it falls to the ground? There is a lot of possibilities as far as weather goes for resources. 1.21 Gigawatts! Giving Irrationals attention to these type of questions in Bioshock, I'm sure this all will be well thought out.

Solar energy would be good. Of course the sun has to be out. You can save the energy it creates for night time using a rock storage. It would have to be pretty big, and real heavy. It's typically dug below basements where the ambient temperature does not affect it. I don't see any rock storage places in those buildings. But...this is fiction. It's still fun figuring it out :)



I wouldn't be surprised if they incorporated some of the scientific advancements of the time and made things work that obviously don't. There's a good chance we'll see steam-powered stuff and it's not unlikely that helium or hydrogen zeppelin-esque balloons could be keeping it afloat.

[Muskel]

I hope it's not steam. Here is a picture of a steam-powered-floating-deathstar-building from the movie Steamboy. If you can stand anime, I recommend it.


http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy122/muskellounger/sb.jpg

[assassin_snyper]

whos to say that it has to be an energy source as we know it? Why not just some type of leverage for someone doomed to use telekanises (LOL I know I spelled that wrong) for an extended amount of time, and that the balloons we see are just an added help? Imagine being inprisoned and only being able to use your mind to hold up an entire city. LOL

[pixelshock]

assassinsnyper said:

whos to say that it has to be an energy source as we know it? Why not just some type of leverage for someone doomed to use telekanises (LOL I know I spelled that wrong) for an extended amount of time, and that the balloons we see are just an added help? Imagine being inprisoned and only being able to use your mind to hold up an entire city. LOL

Lol whoever is doomed to lift the entire city through his mind must be a different type of being, e.g. someone similar to the mythological Atlas :p.

[Rybow73]

The pride of America is keeping them afloat.

[assassin_snyper]

LMAO, good point rybow73!!

[pixelshock]

undeniably said:

I posted this in another thread but it's such a good article and hilariously relevant to both Bioshocks (and totally real too, this is the magazine version of an academic article).

Floating Utopias by China Mieville:

http://www.inthesetimes.org/article/3328/floating_utopias/ ('http://www.inthesetimes.org/article/3328/floating_utopias/')

Emphasizing on a tax-free Utopia and capitalizing markets which are the fruition of a bioshock game is surprisingly shocking knowing that it's an academic article ( theories that blur the edge between fiction and reality).


Very informative, thanks :) .

[undeniably]

rybow73 said:

The pride of America is keeping them afloat.



Touche.

[undeniably]

Here are a couple of my favorite quotes from that article, for those who only skimmed it:


A parable from seasteading’s past goes some way in explaining. In 1971, millionaire property developer Michael Oliver attempted to establish the Republic of Minerva on a small South Pacific sand atoll. It was soon off-handedly annexed by Tonga, and, in a traumatic actualized metaphor, allowed to dissolve back into the sea.


Big capital will support tax-lowering measures, of course, but it does not need to piss and moan about taxes with the tedious relentlessness of the libertarian. Big capital, with its ranks of accountant-Houdinis, just gets on with not paying it. And why hate a state that pays so well? Big capital is big, after all, not only because of the generous contracts its state obligingly hands it, but because of the gun-ships with which its state opens up markets for it.


Libertarianism, by contrast, is a theory of those who find it hard to avoid their taxes, who are too small, incompetent or insufficiently connected to win Iraq-reconstruction contracts, or otherwise chow at the state trough. In its maundering about a mythical ideal-type capitalism, libertarianism betrays its fear of actually existing capitalism, at which it cannot quite succeed. It is a philosophy of capitalist inadequacy.

[adamthenerd]

They're really high up, so what about solar power mixed with some crazy sci-fi power? I mean the chemicals ADAM and EVE didn't exist in BioShock, but that didn't make it any less cool!

[Muskel]

So much could go awry with a floating building and it's inhabitants! Deflate one balloon and watch it tip over. The gas pedal sticks and you find yourself in the stratosphere. Air-rage crash, retribution style. Tornado rips it apart. Fly below deck and catch some barb wire on your balloons. Zepplin/destroyer. Artillery. Tanks. Aircraft. Poison gas. Burned down by flamethrowers. Pressing the self-destruct button.

[Juan29.Zapata]

I actually wonder if Irrational is going to talk about how Columbia keeps itself in the sky at all, or how it was built, because after two games we still don't know how Rapture was built at all.


But if I was Columbia's engineer, I would choose something simple that keeps the city constantly in the sky, maybe the only hard part was the launching of the project, not the upkeep of it?

[benporter]

juan29zapata said:

I actually wonder if Irrational is going to talk about how Columbia keeps itself in the sky at all, or how it was built, because after two games we still don't know how Rapture was built at all.



Have you played BioShock 2? Ryan's Amusements explains a lot of how the foundations for the city were laid.

[Juan29.Zapata]

benporter said:



juan29zapata said:

I actually wonder if Irrational is going to talk about how Columbia keeps itself in the sky at all, or how it was built, because after two games we still don't know how Rapture was built at all.



Have you played BioShock 2? Ryan's Amusements explains a lot of how the foundations for the city were laid.



Darn, I knew I should had organized my game's budget better, now I know, thanks, but still, we're still missing some vital information.

[Nintendoll]

I'm wondering how they get the buildings to balance properly. They'd need a lot of ballast to ensure that the movement of the citizens and handymen doesn't tip everything around.


I wonder if this is at all inspired by the book 21 Balloons by William Pene du Bois. The guy builds a home out of wicker and attaches it to a hot air balloom; it was one of my favorite books as a kid (and I still love it!).

[Nintendoll]

I posted it on another thread, but it was brought to my attention that it belongs here.


I was wondering if the buildings had Tesla cages. If you are in the middle of the sky, you are much more likely to be hit by lightening--especially since the transport systems between the floating platforms seem to be made of metal. There needs to be some sort of system in place in or around the buildings to protect from damage or injury.

[PoeticMadnesss]

nintendoll said:<P>I posted it on another thread, but it was brought to my attention that it belongs here.</P>

<P>I was wondering if the buildings had Tesla cages. If you are in the middle of the sky, you are much more likely to be hit by lightening--especially since the transport systems between the floating platforms seem to be made of metal. There needs to be some sort of system in place in or around the buildings to protect from damage or injury. </P>


Perhaps you just stumbled onto one of the ways that they get the energy generated in the city? It'd probably be unreliable, but not too farfetched to say that it's plausible.

[pixelshock]

nintendoll said:

I posted it on another thread, but it was brought to my attention that it belongs here.

I was wondering if the buildings had Tesla cages. If you are in the middle of the sky, you are much more likely to be hit by lightening--especially since the transport systems between the floating platforms seem to be made of metal. There needs to be some sort of system in place in or around the buildings to protect from damage or injury.



Or they'd just elevate to an altitude above the base of both lower and medium level clouds in the troposphere to retain better safety and prevent that damage. I'm sure the skylines are engineered to withstand lateral oscillations or absorb dynamic energy otherwise the entire structure of the system would fail since none of the buildings are static.

[Muskel]

I had to wiki tesla cages, but all I found was info on tesla coils. Nikola Tesla invented this tesla coil circuit in 1891! They were used commercially in radio transmitters for wireless telegraphy until the 1920's. Also used in electo-therapy. Interesting...wireless. This fits in the timeframe as well.


Thanks for the input! I look forward to post release..."I told you so!"

[Nintendoll]

A tesla cage basically explains why when a car gets hit by lightening, you don't get electrocuted.


Apparently lightening is pretty difficult to harness as an energy source, since it's an overwhelming amount of power and occurs very quickly.

[iglegacy_bigboss]

I love the Steampunk aesthetic!

[montgoda18]

I immediately thought of the steam theory myself as well considering the time period in which Columbia launched!

[yellowfddriver]

There has to be some quasi-advanced for it's time tech that Columbia is using to help keep it afloat. Bioshock is known for being ahead of it's time period! Just as baffled as the rest of you.

[rosahorrorshow]

Knowing the makers of Bioshock there's probably something that involves the player trying to keep it floating, or at least finding out some big secret behind it. Otherwise, it would be too simple

[gabrialcanada]

Seeing as the first Bioshock's early draft and design took heavy influence from 20,000 leagues Under the Sea and the work of Jules Verne. They seem to be drawing from his ballooning adventures as well as taking a shift into the other father of Science Fiction with the works of H.G. Wells. If I have to place a small wager I would say that an anti gravity element Wells invented in his books will make it into this as the source of flight for these cities in the form of cavorite.

[iglegacy_starkiller]

juan29zapata said:



benporter said:



juan29zapata said:

I actually wonder if Irrational is going to talk about how Columbia keeps itself in the sky at all, or how it was built, because after two games we still don't know how Rapture was built at all.



Have you played BioShock 2? Ryan's Amusements explains a lot of how the foundations for the city were laid.



Darn, I knew I should had organized my game's budget better, now I know, thanks, but still, we're still missing some vital information.



Also if you followed "There is something in the Sea" and Mark Meltzer's history, there are some hints about how Andrew Ryan start the construction of rapture, the place and tools he used for it.


I really don't know what to think about the idea of a city in the skies, but the Deathstar idea is something that I find pretty interesting, I'm hoping for Nuclear Bombs or something of that sort to be on the city.

[harlequ1n]

Maybe it's only me but I found it strange that the buildings are in a contiuos oscillating movement and the rails connecting them are rock static. Does this make sense?

[Muskel]

rosahorrorshow said:<P>Knowing the makers of Bioshock there's probably something that involves the player trying to keep it floating, or at least finding out some big secret behind it. Otherwise, it would be too simple </P>


At first I thought Elizabeth was keeping it afloat. After all the newest info, it appears her powers are dormant in the beginning. That rules out that theory.


What's got me puzzled is the electro-static around the one balloon as it falls to the ground. Was it zapped by the new electo-bolt? causing the crash? Or like someone else said, the electricity is part of it's power and it malfunctioned?


What is this mysterious technology?


Another note: the lamppost seen in the trailer are flickering. So a gas of some sort. Being they are on all day, there is alot of fuel somewhere.


Oh, the new game engine is freaking awesome. I love how each building is bobbing around separately. I looks alot better than I thought it would. Well done!

[Muskel]

Thought I would bump this thread since we have alot of new members here, and I want to know what they think.


So please read and comment! One of you has some insight for us.


How do those babies float?

[boltonhawser]

I think that most of the reason they're able to go so high up is the engines which seem to propel the buildings in the positive y-direction; going farther up or down depends on how much energy is being spent to fire up these engines. The balloons around them serve as a ballast to keep them from flying everywhere.

[poggle]

I thought the laws of physics worked like they did in the movie "Up"


The houses float on those big baggy things surrounding the reactors and the structure itself was the center of gravity.


Like a giant toy top that you could live in.


I wonder if people suffered from a wobble sensation riding a giant top.

[Juan29.Zapata]

Probably at first., but then that sensation would go. But that would not be a problem for people who have lived all their life in Columbia.


But Booker would feel as if he were going to fall, depending on how steady the building is.

[IGlegacy_Felonious]

boltonhawser said:I think that most of the reason they're able to go so high up is the engines which seem to propel the buildings in the positive y-direction; going farther up or down depends on how much energy is being spent to fire up these engines. The balloons around them serve as a ballast to keep them from flying everywhere.



That is a pretty reasonable explanation

[Klawhammer]

Is it just the images I have found or are all the floating buildings made of brick?


In order to properly enjoy these images I am going to go ahead and assume that they are some sort hollow helium filled suedo brick blocks. I hope you don't mind.

[precipice66]

@ klawhammer - sorry to smash your illusions but if you look in the first 10 minute demo, the bell tower that comes down is definitely made of bricks.

[Klawhammer]

Maybe there will be some levels that will have messed up reverse gravity caused by whatever crazy steam powered tesla device that holds the city up.

[precipice66]

Ha ha, maybe. Though I think it comes under the 'Suspend Belief - Floating Steam Punk City' heading.

[Juan29.Zapata]

That would be interesting to see, but there would have to be a room dedicated for that department, right?


I don't want to have lack of gravity and just float away... Only to fall to my death when I'm out of range by the machine.

[iglegacy_tracepaper]

Quote from bugs life: 'Lets just use our imaginations'


But it would be neat if they explained it somehow...

[Muskel]

tracepaper said:Quote from bugs life: 'Lets just use our imaginations'

But it would be neat if they explained it somehow...



So what's your imagination sayin bout the buildings?

[watchman]

muskellounger said:First off, I love them. They are beautiful. I can't stop thinking how they tick. Maybe you can help me speculate. Or just chime in to tell Irrational how cool they are.

Someone is driving that thing. Who gets to drive it? How do they drive it? I imagine some sort of control room is there, and I hope it shows up in the game. Imagine how that would look.

They must have a power supply. Generators?

Those balloons need gas. So there has to be some place to store this on board. Has to be alot of it too. I don't see them pulling up to a gas pump. I can see a big explosion happening with that.

What about this "deathstar" quote? What type of hell with this thing unleash? Or did it just fall on the capital building?

Do they land on the ground? How do you get on there?

That is just a few questions I have. Discuss?



At this point its hard to even discuss anything being plausible after seeing tiny hot air balloons holding up brick buildings.


First good storm to hit this thing and it would be wreckage laying on the ground.


Makes Rapture look realistic and the epitome of engineering certainty by comparison

[gestait]

I like the look of the floating buildings, but living in them would be hell.

I mean, everything shifting from side to side all the time? Good luck not spilling your drink.

I wonder if we're gonna be able to shoot out the generators in Bioshock infinite.

I mean, how cool would it be to be able to send a building hurdling toward the ground below? That'd be pretty cool.

[watchman]

muskellounger said:True. That has to be it. A non-renewable energy source. There is some sort of tank with hoses going to each burner. I don't see that building landing on the ground now, it has to stay airborne.

Funny, I never thought of that building being "missing". I was thinking that they were built...project icarus.

I really wonder how you get up there. One of the buildings is a hotel, so they have visitors.



The whole place was supposed to be a showcase city - a traveling exposition, so they had BETTER have ways to bring people - LOTS of people up to see it.


Big escalators on the lower side used when the city is moored near the ground would probably be the most efficient.

[watchman]

gestait said:I like the look of the floating buildings, but living in them would be hell.

I mean, everything shifting from side to side all the time? Good luck not spilling your drink.

I wonder if we're gonna be able to shoot out the generators in Bioshock infinite.

I mean, how cool would it be to be able to send a building hurdling toward the ground below? That'd be pretty cool.



Actually the larger size would make it more stable (instead of rocking like a small boat) but that would require extensive rigid structural constructs (which are hardly there) and which in real life make such a structure ready to tear itself apart (as happened to many zeplins/rigid airships) from wind shear (available in any real storm encountered).


I especially like the buildings with the balloons AT THE BOTTOM which make for a highly unstable arrangement -- ready to flip over at the least disturbance.


Rapture looks like engineeringly sound by comparison to Columbia (this place is a fantasyland that even Walt Disney would be ashamed of -- maybe at the end you find out its all a dream as thats the only way it could work)

[watchman]

precipice66 said:Ha ha, maybe. Though I think it comes under the 'Suspend Belief - Floating Steam Punk City' heading.



At least in Space: 1889 they had that 'liftwood' stuff that actually was supposed to be 'anti-gravity'.