Bioshock and a Top 100 Villain List

[IGlegacy_Felonious]

IGN did a top 100 villain list a little while ago, I haven't seen any discussion of this yet. Now while these lists are very subjective and I'm not looking to argue rankings but rather point out what I think makes Bioshock 1 stand out over other games including its sequel.


Bioshock 1 has 3 villains on IGN's list - Sander Cohen is #89, Frank Fontaine is # 58, and Andrew Ryan is # 10. No other SINGLE game had 3 villains which cracked list - Street Fighter/Mortal Combat both had 2 , and God of War/Final Fantasy franchises had 3 or more. Bioshock 2 had one with Sofia Lamb at #40. WARNING- I will be discussing villains and their encounters for both Bioshock games below.


It's Bioshock's elite cast of antagonists that shaped Rapture and the Bioshock story into the great experience that it was for me. Then you still have many other villains off the list - Dr. Steinman, Peach Wilkins,and Martin "The Iceman" Finnegan. Then you have Langford , Tenenbaum, and of course "Atlas" guiding and helping you along the way. You don't even have to touch on the Big Daddy / Little Sister relationship and the morality choice that goes into saving or harvesting and I believe Bioshock and Rapture is a step above 99% of the games I've played, now bring in Big Daddy/Little Sister experience and it just puts it over the top. The fact they rank Ryan as high as # 10 , a villain who you actually have no control over in how you kill him speaks volumes.


Bioshock 2 on other hand fails to recapture a cast of characters that made Bioshock shine. Really only the Wales brothers fall into the category above, and I would say they do so weakly. I thought more could have been done with Father Wales than just kill his brother and get a code and go kill Simon Wales. The morality bosses, I felt left a lot to be desired especially Gil Alexander (put up some sort of boss fight for an adam infused monster) and to a lesser extent Stanley Poole. You have Sinclair as a guide who you eventually kill all too easy, Mark Meltzer you find as a Big Daddy. It seemed the main set pieces introduced the Brute, Alpha Series, and Big Sister to the player rather than unique antagonists who furthered the story of Rapture. The Biggest Crime was the lack of a true final encounter, what you got was Bioshock 2 horde mode for a few minutes. I thought the Frank Fontaine boss fight was the little ☺☺☺☺☺ in Bioshock 1's greatness but the final encounter for Bioshock 2 left me a little bit in disbelief they would 2 end in that way. Don't get me wrong I think Bioshock 2 is a really good game with a lot of great gameplay improvements it just is not close to the great experience Bioshock is.


To Sum this all up, I think IGN's top 100 Villains List points us in the direction of what made Bioshock 1 the great game it is. It's not just for cool art deco style or the Big Daddies/Little Sisters rather - It is the unique and inspired Villains that gave Rapture it's story.


Edit in Links - http://www.ign.com/videogame-villains/89.html ('http://www.ign.com/videogame-villains/89.html')

http://www.ign.com/videogame-villains/58.html ('http://www.ign.com/videogame-villains/58.html')

http://www.ign.com/videogame-villains/10.html ('http://www.ign.com/videogame-villains/10.html')

[undeniably]

This is really cool - thanks for sharing!

[Rybow73]

Hopefully there will be some top villians in Infinite. :)

[bfdannourse]

Andrew Ryan is not evil, how is he evil, you were just thought that he was evil by Fontaine

[Epstein_The_Swami]

He IS evil in ways. Ryan is most definitely not a saint, bfd.

[IGlegacy_Felonious]

bfdannourse said:

Andrew Ryan is not evil, how is he evil, you were just thought that he was evil by Fontaine



Your point that he is not evil is pretty moot. He is still an antagonist/villain to the player in the game as the story unfolds, the revelations which are made change nothing. Not once in my post or ign's list is the word evil used to describe Ryan. Is Lamb evil, I'd say no, are her views twisted probably, yet she is still the main villain/antagonist in Bioshock 2.


In fact some of the best villains are one's which the player sympathize/relate with, they make you question your moral compass, in ways one's which are just hated do not. So my final point is reading comprehension is for the win!

[Krisi]

I totally agree with everything you sayed here.And also lets not forgget that in bioshock 2 we were expecting alot of plot twists like bs1 and also we knew rapture and the splicers.While in bs1 we almost didnt knew anything about rapture and its citizens

[IGlegacy_Felonious]

teleportingman said:

I totally agree with everything you sayed here.And also lets not forgget that in bioshock 2 we were expecting alot of plot twists like bs1 and also we knew rapture and the splicers.While in bs1 we almost didnt knew anything about rapture and its citizens



Their is something to be said about being surprised with a new place and experience and going into something expecting something which isn't delivered on. On the other hand, nostalgia about a place and raise one's opinions higher than they would be if it was completely new.

[knarf]

Ryan delectably isn't a villain, i guess it depends on who's perspective you're looking from, but he had good intentional initially.

[ig.chris]

Agreed with many of the folks in here--what makes Ryan so great (I can say that since I wasn't involved in making him) is that he isn't really a "villain." He's an antagonist as far as the player is concerned but he isn't just some cartoon bad guy whose intent is to ☺☺☺☺ with people. He's a real, human character who has gotten where he is through choices he made, with the best intentions, and through his own failings, his own principles, and the actions of others, he has gotten to a bad place.


I think everyone can identify with Ryan's original intention, whether or not they intellectually agree with it, and that's what makes him work as a character.

[Juan29.Zapata]

Exactly, from my perspective he was a brilliant man, trying to get man to its real shine.


Is it really his fault that people just took it wrongly and destroyed the real Rapture dream?

[darthkiwi]

No other SINGLE game had 3 villains which cracked list


Actually, there was also Liquid Snake, Revolver Ocelot and Psycho Mantis from Metal Gear Solid. But that game had some of the most memorable and brilliant bosses ever devised, so meeting that bar is no bad thing!

[IGlegacy_Felonious]

I never played Metal Gear Solid, I'm pretty sure they listed those characters under Metal Gear Solid Series, so I thought it was in different games throughout the series. Like you said it keeps good company then.

[Juan29.Zapata]

I am not sure if Revolver did appear in the first game, but I am positive that at both Liquid and Psycho Mantis appeared and were involved in the storyline.

[IGlegacy_Felonious]

IG.Chris said:

Agreed with many of the folks in here--what makes Ryan so great (I can say that since I wasn't involved in making him) is that he isn't really a "villain." He's an antagonist as far as the player is concerned but he isn't just some cartoon bad guy whose intent is to ☺☺☺☺ with people.




juan29zapata said:

Exactly, from my perspective he was a brilliant man, trying to get man to its real shine.

Is it really his fault that people just took it wrongly and destroyed the real Rapture dream?



I'm going to have to disagree with Chris a bit and def Juan. Andrew Ryan was no saint, he was not a cartoon bad guy who was there just to create misery for fun sake. He did do things, which a tyrant or despot would do to maintain control over Rapture. Here's some facts --

Ryan condemned smugglers to death, he killed Jasmine Jolene after finding out about the pregnancy, he had Sullivan his personal security interrogate and torture Timmy H and also kill Anna Culpepper, he made people regularly disappear- Grace Holloway's lover james, Minerva's Den shows another such case (go play it to find out!!), and these are only some of the few examples.


Really Fontaine states and it is also the case with Lamb that the conditions which Ryan created in Rapture drove people to Fontaine and Lamb and their respective groups and causes. Ryan created a failed utopia and squashed anyone to try and maintain it. His vision may not have been villainous but his actions to accomplish it most def was. The very existence of Ryan's amusements a place used as a propaganda tool speaks volumes. Tyrants from Hitler and the Nazis to current day Kim Jong Il of North Korea use such means to keep people on their side.


I'm not bashing Ryan, he is a close second to Cohen for my favorite character. His vision and dream of Rapture is sympathetic but saying he is not a villain, is drinking the Rapture kool-aid. I'll list some links to some audio logs referencing what I've said.


http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Sad_Saps ('http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Sad_Saps')

http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Timmy_H._Interrogation ('http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Timmy_H._Interrogation')

http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Bump_Culpepper%3F ('http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Bump_Culpepper%3F')

http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Artist_Woman ('http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Artist_Woman')

http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Ryan_Amusements_%28Audio_Diary%29 ('http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Ryan_Amusements_%28Audio_Diary%29')

[IGlegacy_Felonious]

****** Warning this post is going to mention spoilers for the movie the Watchmen*****


<span> I wanted to mention the movie Watchmen. Take Ozymandias he is willing to sacrifice millions of people (by uniting USA and Soviet Union against Dr. Manhattan ) in order to hopefully save billions (Potential nuclear war between USA and the Soviet Union. While his intentions maybe good his means and actions to achieve his goal defines a villain. I say Ryan and Ozymandias can be compared similar fashion. </span>

[ragingmudcrab]

The interesting thing about Andrew Ryan is that he becomes so sure of his beliefs that he stops at nothing to make sure his dreams are realized. Definitely a worthy cause right there, but the problems come when he destroys other people to obtain what he wants, depriving them of the rights he claimed they had and becoming like the tyrants on the surface that he so despised. He does even come to question what he's done later on, but at this point he's gone so far already that there's no turning back. It's sort of a classic tragic hero story. In the end though he's definitely an "evil" character. He had the best of intentions but his methods ended up ruining him.