Please long the 'Diplomacy Time'

[YunaT]

It is a good idea if the diplomacy timer can be longer 24hours..it make exploiter, cheater even a honest player to think twice about playing joining and leave nation.
it also discourage player from leaving his nation to join another just because the other nation have wonder or tech advantage (24hours will make player know they will miss 3-8 era if leaving and joining wrong civ)..and also i dont see any harm for longing it..

[michelleinpi]

On the other hand, when a player just can't work with the group they r with (they have cliqued up, not co-0perating, etc) the only option a single player has is 2 leave their nation 2 find another. While I can't stand nation hoppers, I know I would just quit the game rather than stay with a bad nation or wait 24 hrs.

[YunaT]

i think 24 hours is not that cruel to good or atleast 'know how to play' player..it only discourage and give the rising nation player to earn what they have work for..the situation is like this. 'A' nation just let any nation in its game to win whatever they want in 36hours so 'A' nation most fame only 10 or 12..but the rank 1 player is 120 or 160..then when the time come(maybe in 36hours) 'A' nation will win almost everything...then this 1 ranked player notice his/her nation not going to win frequent anymore so in 1 hour he/she can join 'A' nation and take the credit(most of this kind of player is clever opportunist)..this situation make 'A' nation senior member a whiner :P .. so longer the dipmacy time at least is a bonus time for who have wait patiently in building their nation..

[VeliK]

The current penalties are alright. While they do give a tactical option in the beginning they also become rapidly too long for abuse.

[Ironsmack]

I vote to 'long' the time frame as well. I think the gradual penalty works but the real penalty doesn't show up until you have to wait more then 4 hours. I can switch 4 times before the penalty really becomes a true penalty. I would suggest 0, 2, 4, instead, which would allow at least 3 changes with relatively light penalty. Beyond that I think the time should be excessive.

[Glinda]

Until the civ joining bug is fixed, any changes to diplomacy would be massively unfair. I got thrown into 2 civs in my new game, and now I have 4 hours of Diplomacy time resulting from this bug.

[Ironsmack]

@glinda,

good point, indeed

[churd]

From a practical perspective, there is very little chance of this happening. There are many times where nation-switching is necessary for good, "honorable" players. The best example is when third place nation and the fourth place nation need to consolidate in order to compete with the first or second place nations. Given that fact, changing the diplomacy timer would hinder players playing correctly, in addition to hindering nation-hoppers. Hindering positive players makes this "solution" extremely unlikely.

Further, 2kgames employees have been advocating the stance of "do what it takes to win." If you join a nation at the beginning of the game, then fault other people for joining a different nation because they have a wonder you don't, you have missed the point of competition.

[Ironsmack]

There is no strategy in hopping around to whomever has the wonder you need or whetever else you might be looking for. I don't see the strategic importance of being able to jump around with little to no penalty. The strategy comes in when there is a risk to doing so, such as being forced to be independant for a period of time. In my opinion, this also serves the dual purpose of preventing people from simply exploiting this ability. I think the greater benefit in switching is more to subvert other players then some bonus to your own city. As it stands in it's current form, there is basically no penalty at all unless you do it more then 5 or 6 times.

[churd]

Based on your comment, it seems like you don't understand the word strategy. Strategy = a series of planned maneuvers with a specific result in mind. Maneuvers such as moving nations, for example. In fact, changing nations to get wonders is the exact f---ing definition of strategy.

By switching nations for wonders, you are losing out on a plethora of benefits. You are seeking to gain a +25% to one or several resources (or +1 happiness). You are losing out on the benefits of holding office, controlling policy, general communication, and rallying teammates to accomplish the same scientific/economic/military objectives as you. That is a choice, whether all the factors are considered or not. Making choices is part of strategy.

Your idea of "little to no penalty" amounts to ignoring non-wonder benefits because they don't support your position. The concept of opportunity cost exists for a reason. The concept applies here. Rethink your statement, this time using the entire game as context, instead of trying to theorize in a void.

[Fox Nemhauser]

i think 24 hours is not that cruel to good or atleast 'know how to play' player..

you do realize that some games can be over in 3-4 days (without exploits), punishing someone to play 1/3 of the game without a civilization is a bit harsh

[Lysander]

The times are right as they are. Do not change them.

[Runemeister]

The present timer is fine and doesn't need fixing. 24 hours is way too long.

[VeliK]

There is no strategy in hopping around to whomever has the wonder you need or whetever else you might be looking for. I don't see the strategic importance of being able to jump around with little to no penalty. The strategy comes in when there is a risk to doing so, such as being forced to be independant for a period of time. In my opinion, this also serves the dual purpose of preventing people from simply exploiting this ability. I think the greater benefit in switching is more to subvert other players then some bonus to your own city. As it stands in it's current form, there is basically no penalty at all unless you do it more then 5 or 6 times.

Of course there is strategy. For first you can hop civs to get barbarian kills and finish techs faster. See, since there are players researching tech in that civ you just hopped you just choose one from where you can get the MVP the cheapest and research that. Continue to do this while hopping to get barbarian kills and you will greatly increase your research rate.

The you could do this to build wonders for other civs. The Great Wall would be one along with the +1 defense/attack wonders. It's cheaper to hop to 1 player civ and build a wonder than build it from yout 5-25 player civ. There's lot's of stuff like this what I haven't even figured out yet.

[Ironsmack]

Churd: changing nations to get wonders is the exact f---ing definition of strategy.


No need to get upset. I am only stating my personal opinion. My opinion is that switching to a new civ to get a wonder which will most likely be stolen in hours is absurd, with all due respect. I never see people bouncing around to civs for wonders. You could, perhaps, hop around to pick up all the easy little fame for ginormous buildings or other medals but, compared to era wins, those are pointless and won't secure a win. The only other possible benefit I can come up with for hopping around is to subvert other players which carries a greater reward then the minimal risks.
Personally I stayed in one civ. We closed the borders with 4 people and all 4 of us placed in the top 6, me being #2.
I guess my point is that I do not see the immediate importance of being able to switch so many times with no penatly (being independant for anything under 8 hours is hardly a penalty as I routinely am not even logged in for 6-8 hours at a time anyways.
All this being said, I don't think it's as big a deal as fixing the missing bug among others. I just think the time penalty shoudl increase at a greater rate, that's all.

[Monthar]

It's cheaper to hop to 1 player civ and build a wonder than build it from yout 5-25 player civ. There's lot's of stuff like this what I haven't even figured out yet. The events are cheaper based on size of the civ yes. The wonders however are based on how many wonders your civ already has and how many times its been rebuilt. Once the wonder has been rebuilt a few times it'll always cost 6 great people no matter how many or few wonders your civ has.

[churd]

The events are cheaper based on size of the civ yes. The wonders however are based on how many wonders your civ already has and how many times its been rebuilt. Once the wonder has been rebuilt a few times it'll always cost 6 great people no matter how many or few wonders your civ has.

If I understand VeliK correctly, what he's suggesting is actually pretty clever. A player loyal to nation [A] leaves A to form nation [B] and builds a wonder. Then, A attacks B, taking the wonder. The potential savings is up to 4 GP. The downside is that nation A loses access to the wonder's technology for at least a hour, and more realistically ~20 hours. (Side note: I don't actually know what happens if a nation has 1+ wonders and/or 1+ battles, but 0 members. Based on other situations, I assume the answer is "a glitch." But someone should test that.)

In addition, there's risk that another nation C interferes by also invading, then using universal defending to stall A, so that the battle takes long enough for the C vs B battle to resolve. A could similarly defend against C, creating a wonderful two-sided war. Of course, this assumes that nation C even realizes what's going on.

IMO shenanigans like these are going to become more and more frequent as players become more experienced with the game. They help make the game strategically interesting. And they are only possible with the current, flexible timer system.

[XecthL]

hmm i would love to be in that game..without exploit without multis..and it end in 2-3(36hours) days..
you do realize that some games can be over in 3-4 days (without exploits), punishing someone to play 1/3 of the game without a civilization is a bit harsh

[YunaT]

without macros too
hmm i would love to be in that game..without exploit without multis..and it end in 2-3(36hours) days..