Interesting Advice from an AI Leader

[circuitrider]

I was fighting Augustus. Took two cities which he had settled right next to me and then was battling for the third. The terrain was not helpful: mountains and marshes limited my approach. Every time I eliminated the defending forces, a bunch of rifles appeared to take their places. I had artillery and infantry, but wasn't making much progress.

Notifications came that Bismarck, on another continent, had trade agreements which had exired. I had been friends with Bismarck almost from the time I met him. When I opened his diplomacy screen, he made a comment about my war. He had always commented favorably about it after I started it.

But, he added some advice. He said my forces were badly placed and I should consider ending the war! I couldn't believe it. Advice from another leader. He was right. I was having a hard time taking the city. But, I thought I had a chance to take it on the next turn if I ignored the defenders and focused only on the city. Three artillery barrages from me. Then, I attacked with one of my injured infantry -- it should fall, but it didn't. I attacked with my only other infantry (also injured) took the city and immediately negotiated a straight peace deal with Augustus.

Bismarck's analysis and his advice to me was totally unexpected, although I had come to the same conclusion myself.

Has anyone else had a similar experience with the comments from an AI leader?

[Jazzterisk]

Interesting. I've never seen that in any game I've played. Were you playing any mods? If so, perhaps that comment was added by the mod maker.

I'm gonna read the AI's comments more carefully the next time they contact me. Maybe there's a hidden gem I'm missing.

[circuitrider]

Mods: InfoAddict and CivWillard. I don't think either of them tinker with AI messages.

Of course, if Augustus had not been willing to negotiate peace, holding on to the city would likely have been problematic. But still instead of Bismarck just wishing me good luck in my war, he commented on the difficult situation I was in.

Augustus was at war with another civ, but on the other continent. I was counting on his forces being otherwise occuppied. It may have been a psuedo war with nothing going on. Either he was able to rush reinforcements from the other parts of his empire or he was buying units as quickly as he could.

I started the war because I had artillery and I didn't see any in his first two cities, but he had an artillery unit in the city I was now attacking. I guess that changed. I over-reached and got into a bad situation.

[OmegaKabob]

Wow, that's odd but useful! It seems AI is getting more AI

[sectoid]

But, he added some advice. He said my forces were badly placed and I should consider ending the war! I couldn't believe it. Advice from another leader.

Pics or it didn't happen. And this time I mean it. ;)

Seriously, I want to believe you but..

[Putmalk]

This can be verified one of two ways:

1) search the specific text displayed in the AI message in the game files
2) search the mods. You'll probably find it there. I've never seen the AI do this before.

[buchengshi]

Was this the message?:

"The positioning of your military is somewhat worrisome. I advise you to withdraw for the sake of future peace. Now, what would you like to talk about?"

[KayTeEm]

He said my forces were badly placed and I should consider ending the war!


I've never seen the AI do this before.

Me neither, but it's quite plausible, since the AIs are the absolute experts in placing their forces badly. ;)

[Putmalk]

Me neither, but it's quite plausible, since the AIs are the absolute experts in placing their forces badly. ;)

lol.

But buchengshi probably has it right. The AI text is strictly stuck to the XML provided - if it's not there, then they can't say it. So that message is probably the one.

[sectoid]

Was this the message?:

"The positioning of your military is somewhat worrisome. I advise you to withdraw for the sake of future peace. Now, what would you like to talk about?"

Thats not an advice at all. Its the old "I see your troops near my borders and I urge you to move them..." said in a different way.

[circuitrider]

"The positioning of your military is somewhat worrisome. I advise you to withdraw for the sake of future peace. Now, what would you like to talk about?"

I don't think that was the message but I can't swear to it. The message above sounds more like a threat to a neighboring civ -- maybe Augustus giving that message as I was setting my units up for attack. [edit I started writing this before the previous post was posted]

So, if that was the message having the AI "say" it when speaking to a leader who is on another continent and has renewed a pact of friendship numerous times still seems an unusual coincidence.

It's interesting that if I don't have a picture of it, it didn't happen. It was late into the night. I should have gone to bed already. I was trying to take this city before I stopped for the night. No, I was not going to take the time to figure out how to take a picture. I agree that I did not write down the exact words. Obviously, it would have helped if I had. I was certain there was something about the war not going well at the beginning of the greeting. (By-the-way, I have had enough experience with pictures to know that just because someone has a picture, doesn't mean it did happen.)

So, if that was the message, it still seems unusual to get it at that time.

Or, maybe my mind was playing tricks on me. Oh well.

[sectoid]

It's interesting that if I don't have a picture of it, it didn't happen. It was late into the night. I should have gone to bed already. I was trying to take this city before I stopped for the night. No, I was not going to take the time to figure out how to take a picture. I agree that I did not write down the exact words. Obviously, it would have helped if I had. I was certain there was something about the war not going well at the beginning of the greeting. (By-the-way, I have had enough experience with pictures to know that just because someone has a picture, doesn't mean it did happen.)


Dude, "pics or it didnt happen" is a saying. A meme if you will, a challenge to back something up. Dont take it too seriously, see the little smiley face winking there? And you are talking with an alien, so I know all about photographic evidence and disbelief. ;)

Now I believe you, and if that was the message it is easily misunderstood. I was only sceptic of AI giving you advice on your current tactical situation. No biggie.

You can take screenshot from your game at any point by pressing "Prt Scr". The image is then placed in your "libraries/documents/my games/civilization 5/screenshots/"- folder in a .tga format. Convert it to .jpg if you want to share it online.

cheers.

[eastkitton]

I haven't seen the message either, as originally quoted.



It was late into the night. I should have gone to bed already.

You should be more disciplined and ... uh ... is it 2AM already?



Or, maybe my mind was playing tricks on me. Oh well.

No matter, the thread was still worth it for KayTeEm's comment.

[KayTeEm]

No matter, the thread was still worth it for KayTeEm's comment.

At your service! ;)

[suzzi]

At your service! ;)

I believe you Kay, even without a pic but I've never seen this either. I don't use any mods at all and no dlc's either so I'm wondering if the answer isn't in one of these.

[Jazzterisk]

It's interesting that if I don't have a picture of it, it didn't happen. .

If you haven't played too much since it happened check to see if you have an autosave (if you have it enabled) or a normal save that are from just before the Civ in question gave you that advice. Load it up, try to do the same things you did, and maybe the helpful Civ will contact you with the same advice.

If they do, you can take a screenshot and quiet the sceptics ;).

[Putmalk]

If you haven't played too much since it happened check to see if you have an autosave (if you have it enabled) or a normal save that are from just before the Civ in question gave you that advice. Load it up, try to do the same things you did, and maybe the helpful Civ will contact you with the same advice.

If they do, you can take a screenshot and quiet the sceptics ;).

It really isn't skepticism. If the text isn't in the text files, then it didn't happen.

[circuitrider]

The taking of the city was on turn 461, so I would have to go back to 460 at least. The earliest autosave on my computer now is turn 516 (epic speed).

After taking the city I consolidated defenses (obviously not enough) and while still building some units, progressed closer to the science victory I had been aiming for. The preemptive strike I had made on Augustus was to give me room to do this without him attacking me at a crucial point during my victory run. Likely chance! Augustus marshalled his forces out of my sight and attacked on turn 527 with massive land forces and a way too effective air force..

He has now retaken the city and threatening to recapture the other two I had taken. I am fighting this off right now, but not with much confidence.

I will contact Bismarck again to see if he has any more advice for me :). Though I think it will take more than advice to save me at this point.

If I can't get peace (or even if I can -- for ten turns), I'll have to see how long I want to slug out a losing cause or whether to resign. Oh no, I can't resign in this Civ game can I.
I'm at turn 531 (Jan 1940) with an estimated 110 turns or so before I estimate spaceship launch and at the most 75 Golden Age turns available to speed things up.

[KayTeEm]

I believe you Kay, even without a pic but I've never seen this either.

You really don't have to believe me, since I didn't claim anything. ;)
circuitrider is the one who experienced guidance by the AI in person of Bismarck.

[Jazzterisk]

I took a look through all the xml files that have all the leader comments in them. I couldn't find any text listed similar to what the OP had. My suspicion is that the comment was edited in via one of the mods the OP was using.

[circuitrider]

I think the message must have been the one quoted earlier in the thread. It is unusual that the AI would select in in the situation I saw it, but it did apply to the tactical and strategic situation I was in.

I did not quote the exact wording of what I saw, I merely gave what I thought was the meaning when I saw it. So, the message usually used to warn a neighbor civ to back off his/her forces from one's borders seems to have another use as well. Either the programmers have it set to do this or the AI was confused and just randomly selected one that happened to make sense.

[circuitrider]

I think the message must have been the one quoted earlier in the thread. It is unusual that the AI would select in in the situation I saw it, but it did apply to the tactical and strategic situation I was in.

I did not quote the exact wording of what I saw, I merely gave what I thought was the meaning when I saw it. So, the message usually used to warn a neighbor civ to back off his/her forces from one's borders seems to have another use as well. Either the programmers have it set to do this or the AI was confused and just randomly selected one that happened to make sense.

Of the two alternatives, I suspect that the something is happening in the program which was not intended. It is obvious to me that some of the numbers reported in the program are not what they should be.

The default happiness for chieftain and warlord should be 12, but in previous games before the latest patch the program reported this default as high as 23 in the later turns of a game. I have not seen this error since the last patch, so it appears the programmers have been able to detect and fix this error.

There are only 8 natural wonders in a game. But I have seen happiness from natural wonders above 8, even as high as 13. This error has not yet been fixed as far as I know.

These are just two examples of what can happen in a program when internal data becomes corrupted. They can be extremely difficult to track down and correct. Data in neighboring memory can expand into the wrong memory location, so when you read it, it does not contain the value the programmers intend it to have. Or data is written to the wrong location. Or even harder to deal with are bad spots in the user's PC's memory.

If something like this happened with the number referencing which response the AI leader should give (or any number which goes into this calculation), the message displayed will not be the one the programmers intended. I think this is what happened in this situation. I was so immersed in the game I originally thought it was intended. I no longer think that.

The Civ V program is extremely complex with many lines of code, many opportunities for errors to occur -- especially, after many turns have already occurred. I don't think this message was the one which the designers intended to be displayed at that time. But, I have had enough experience in programming to know that things like this happen and can be extremely difficult to find and correct.

[Putmalk]

Of the two alternatives, I suspect that the something is happening in the program which was not intended. It is obvious to me that some of the numbers reported in the program are not what they should be.

The default happiness for chieftain and warlord should be 12, but in previous games before the latest patch the program reported this default as high as 23 in the later turns of a game. I have not seen this error since the last patch, so it appears the programmers have been able to detect and fix this error.

There are only 8 natural wonders in a game. But I have seen happiness from natural wonders above 8, even as high as 13. This error has not yet been fixed as far as I know.

These are just two examples of what can happen in a program when internal data becomes corrupted. They can be extremely difficult to track down and correct. Data in neighboring memory can expand into the wrong memory location, so when you read it, it does not contain the value the programmers intend it to have. Or data is written to the wrong location. Or even harder to deal with are bad spots in the user's PC's memory.

If something like this happened with the number referencing which response the AI leader should give (or any number which goes into this calculation), the message displayed will not be the one the programmers intended. I think this is what happened in this situation. I was so immersed in the game I originally thought it was intended. I no longer think that.

The Civ V program is extremely complex with many lines of code, many opportunities for errors to occur -- especially, after many turns have already occurred. I don't think this message was the one which the designers intended to be displayed at that time. But, I have had enough experience in programming to know that things like this happen and can be extremely difficult to find and correct.

It wasn't an error - you probably had a few units near his borders and this was the message selected. In fact, I believe that's the -only- message that can come up in that situation. It wasn't an error. I will assure you on that.

[circuitrider]

I don't think so. Bismarck was on another continent (Huge Map) a great many hexes away from any of my borders; likewise distant from any of his allied city states--if he had any. The usual meaning of that message did not correspond with the situation current in the game. That I can assert with certainty. I had open borders with him so any scouts within his borders would not have been reguarded as hostile. We had renewed agreements of friendship multiple times before and after this message appeared: probably because of the great distance between us. So, I think it is unlikely.

I think is it like the examples I cited in my previous message -- or the misplaced hex yield symbols which I get almost every game after a long number of turns have gone by -- either related to number of turns or by loading saved game files to resume games. Either can result in these kinds of errors. I think these explanation are much more likely than this message being one which the designers intended as a response to the specific circumstance I found myself.

The wrong message was selected. It was coincidental that I could interpret it as an insightful response to my situation.

I doubt that the complex pattern recognition is programmed in which would have led to this message being what I took it to be.

[Bobweefers]

@circuitrider

You can get more than 8 happiness from 8 natural wonders. Great Barrier Reef gives +1 happy for both tiles. Old Faithful gives +3 happiness for being in your borders

[Oosh]

I vote it was a day-dream brought on by sleep-deprivation from too much Civ playing. :p

[circuitrider]

@Bobweefers

That's still one shy of 13. [Edit: each Barrier Reef counts as one happiness in that category, I believe. You get the happiness for discovering them at the rate of one per tile. The other happinesses only come when they are in your borders and/or you work the tiles. These happiness bonuses are credited with the city in whose borders encompass them, I believe. Even when I have discovered both Barrier Reef hexes, I have normally gotten only 8 natural wonders, and the happiness tooltip shows just 8 -- even the one time I was able to work both of the Reef tiles. At any rate, which ever one of us is right does not depend upon what either of us thinks. It is a matter of how the developers code it in the game. We can just give our observations and hope we remember what we saw correctly. But I will check more closely in the future to see if I can verify your observation.]

@Oosh

Who knows for sure:).