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View Full Version : Wacky Population/Citizens Idea



AeEsBii
04-02-2011, 03:55 PM
This is probably next to impossible to mod, but for the sake of putting forth an idea about game depth I was thinking that population and citizen management could be made a bit more dynamic.

To start with, specialists could require training, which depending on the type of specialist will cost some production, science, and/or culture. You could assign a regular citizen to a specialist slot, but doing so would have some penalty, like 1 unhappiness. Specialists assigned to the wrong slot generate 2 unhappiness (ie, an artist in an engineer slot). You can re-train a specialist, but this takes twice as long compared to training a regular citizen; you can also un-train a specialist, but this takes as long as it would to train. (Don't think of un-training as making the "same" citizen lose their skills, but rather that the next generation didn't follow the same path.)

Additionally, drop workers as units. Citizens can be assigned to work a tile. They can further be ordered to improve the tile, which still takes a number of turns. Engineers can build most improvements faster, but then are unhappy if they're used as farmers or something (so they'd have to be swapped out for a regular citizen; or maybe that step could be automated). Engineers in a city have the additional option to design a road, where you lay down each section of road and confirm the project.

When you pillage a tile, there's the possibility of capturing a citizen (since there aren't workers anymore). These captured citizens can either be slaves, who generate unhappiness but can be sent to one of your cities to work; or prisoners, which requires a prison to send them to, but they don't generate extra unhappiness (they will consume food, though, and prisons themselves have maintenance and a limited number of slots). When a slave or prisoner is set free it will always return to its civilization of origin (unless that civilization has been conquered, in which case it just disappears). Capturing a city full of slaves or prisoners gives you the option of keeping them or releasing them.

A new type of specialist could be the "soldier", which can be assigned to forts, walls, etc. for improved defense; or possibly improve the defense of any unit on a tile to which they're assigned. When a military unit is trained, a soldier specialist is placed in a dummy building representing active-duty soldiers. Initial training of the soldier specialist can include a gold cost, but after that it costs food in upkeep (mechanically already in place because it's a specialist citizen in a city). Perhaps gold maintenance of units could be removed for most units, then, since they'll cost food. If a city is starving, then active-duty soldiers are the last citizens to die (and their corresponding units will die when active-duty soldier slots die). Soldiers can be moved to other cities with better food production.

On that note, it should be possible to relocate citizens, perhaps at a temporary (un)happiness penalty. (Except the above-mentioned soldiers.)

I think these ideas would create a better distinction between the empire/city management part of the game, and the tactical/war part of the game (although they obviously still influence one another). Likes? Dislikes? Amendments?

the man of doom
04-02-2011, 05:20 PM
i like the training idea

not fond of the others tbh

Kevik
04-02-2011, 06:56 PM
so something like civ 4 colonization

Rinnero
04-02-2011, 07:29 PM
And what changes in game there will be except for more management? The gameplay is being lean for purpose, so that it was easy to predict what will any decision lead to. Even now i think MP matches are slower than they could be.
I understand that if you have one city you may be bored to end turn in 4 seconds and wait 60 for others(who have several) to end their turn. But if that system be implemented everyone's turns will be sighnificantly longer. dropping out of game the worker unit is actually a time-saving idea. In that case all tiles will be like hamlets from Civ IV, that will be upgraded automatically after some turns of working this tile. So we just enter the city, choose what tiles should upgrade to what, where should be roads and thats all. Thats nice.
Training is just something that doesnt allow to relocate citizens to specialists and back to citizens freely. So you cant change em every turn. Maybe not bad idea.
Reducing population by pillaging is questionable. All other ideas about allocating ingeneeres to farms and prisoners are too time consuming and just add you some troubles you dont want to have

But i just got an idea about 'soldier specialist', much simplier but it affects gameplay in that it allows you to play more offencively or defencively. 2 new specialist types:
one is garrison that are made in defensive buildings like walls(strenghtens the city they are in)
the other one is.... hmm... something like sub-general. (strenghtens the unit on the same tile by 20-30%) made in land exp gaining buildings.

markusbeutel
04-02-2011, 10:02 PM
In my NiGHTS mod each building in the game is capable of training new specialists. For example, a Grain Harvester works in the granary. The granary has 1 slot that trains at a rate of 5 points per turn. At 100 points you get a new specialist - the Grain Harvester - who is capable of building a new unique improvement on Grain resources with a powerful yield of 3 Food 2 Hammers. There are also military units that can be trained that start with advanced promotions. There's around 40 new specialists in the mod so far - more once I expand into the future era.

Rinnero
04-02-2011, 11:30 PM
Good job making this game mechanic. Its unusual and allows you to make cities with ultra yeld.
But its a bit incrutiating and takes a much time to find what you need to build for specific specialist. Its not something i want to see in MP, because it increases micromanagement and just creates unnecessary headache.
I think its better to concentrate on scientific tree and institutes - they are great.

By the way why nobody changes civilization's unique perks? is that impossible?

SamBC
04-03-2011, 09:07 AM
This is basically like colonization (even the original), except population units don't become equivalent with military units.

Kevik
04-03-2011, 09:47 AM
This is basically like colonization (even the original), except population units don't become equivalent with military units.

yeah pretty much

AeEsBii
04-03-2011, 12:54 PM
By the way why nobody changes civilization's unique perks? is that impossible?There are mods that do this. Usually mega-mods, so the changes are bundled with other changes.

I honestly give no regard to multiplayer when I think about CiV. Although if I did play multiplayer, I wouldn't want a turn timer. The "what do I do while waiting for my turn?" issue could be alleviated by projecting what your next turn will be like and letting you queue actions, then when it actually is your turn you can re-confirm your choices and deal with the things that have changed as a result of other players' turns. Kind of like what I guess Pitboss was like. (I only played a few LAN games of Civ 4.)

markusbeutel
04-03-2011, 01:54 PM
There are mods that do this. Usually mega-mods, so the changes are bundled with other changes.

I honestly give no regard to multiplayer when I think about CiV. Although if I did play multiplayer, I wouldn't want a turn timer. The "what do I do while waiting for my turn?" issue could be alleviated by projecting what your next turn will be like and letting you queue actions, then when it actually is your turn you can re-confirm your choices and deal with the things that have changed as a result of other players' turns. Kind of like what I guess Pitboss was like. (I only played a few LAN games of Civ 4.)

Yep - very possible. I've replaced all of the civ-specific perks with traits more along the lines of Civ IV in NiGHTS.

eastkitton
04-04-2011, 08:14 AM
I suppose you can take any part of the game and propose extensions that make it more complex, add richness but make the game take longer to learn and longer to play.

If you are not thinking about multiplayer then what you should be thinking about is how to implement the AI to handle all this specialist training and allocation (and reallocation!). I think this would be a real headache.

I think it is more practical to identify a problem area in the game and suggest changes that would improve the situation. You ought to be able to articulate why the proposed change would make the game better.

AeEsBii
04-04-2011, 10:22 AM
Training a military unit could automatically train a soldier specialist. Perhaps soldiers would relocate on their own if a city is starving and they can move to one that wouldn't starve. The player would only have to learn how to train specialists if they wanted to assign specialist slots. Using focuses could lead to the automatic training and assignment of specialists.

Unless you're playing above Prince level there's never any need to open the city management screen in order to win/survive, auto-governor does fine 99% of the time. And if you're playing above Prince you should know how the game works.