AI opponents in MP - Word of advice

[Oblivious]

Me and my fiancee tried our first new multiplayer game, after the patch, tonight. Unfortunately we discovered a new 'feature' that spoiled the game for us.
Apparently you now have to enable AI opponents individually when setting up the game, otherwise you will play the game without computers.

Since we choose to play on a large map it took us quite a while into the game before we figured something was wrong. The first indication was that we were the only two civilizations on the scoreboard, but we actually thought this was intentional to keep the opponents (AI) score secret.

After realizing there were no AI opponents we started a new game and at setup noticed that the opponents were disabled/shadowed as default. This was not the case before the patch.

So, our questions are:
1) Why was this feature added? What was it supposed to fix? In the first setup phase you select map size and thereby the optimal number of opponents. Why should you then need to activate the opponents? An option to deactivate or add, as before the patch, were in our eyes a better method.
2) Why was this change not mentioned in the patch notes? Did the developers not realize that it might be easily missed when setting up the game?

Finally I would like to end on a positive note. The patch seems like a big step forward. Primarily for single player, but with some positive effects also for multiplayer. Keep up the good work. Please just focus on fixing bugs and balance adjustments rather than changing already working aspects of the game.

[istry555]

It doesn't matter. AI slots in MP are broken. I too like to play MP games with human players and a mix of some AI, but AI slots in MP games function little more as placeholders till a human player can take over their slot. They almost never contact you or other players, never declare war, and compare any MP game AI with a similar SP situation and they will be significantly behind in terms of techs and units. In fact they sometimes never build anything or declare war in MP games. Basically AI slots in MP don't do anything but sit there. City States build better empires that AI slots in MP's. Why? Who knows, but the question is constantly ignored when asked and there hasn't been any indication if it will be fixed or even looked into. It was probably disabled because they know it's broken and they want to discourage people from using AI in MP. (Yet again forcing people to play a specific way in MP, just like their lack of a standard save function, animations, notifications, simultaneous turns, etc.).

[l4m3r]

It doesn't matter. AI slots in MP are broken. I too like to play MP games with human players and a mix of some AI, but AI slots in MP games function little more as placeholders till a human player can take over their slot. They almost never contact you or other players, never declare war, and compare any MP game AI with a similar SP situation and they will be significantly behind in terms of techs and units. In fact they sometimes never build anything or declare war in MP games. Basically AI slots in MP don't do anything but sit there. City States build better empires that AI slots in MP's. Why? Who knows, but the question is constantly ignored when asked and there hasn't been any indication if it will be fixed or even looked into. It was probably disabled because they know it's broken and they want to discourage people from using AI in MP. (Yet again forcing people to play a specific way in MP, just like their lack of a standard save function, animations, notifications, simultaneous turns, etc.).


Not really the delcare war !
But they dont make offers to you its on your side to make offers.

[shozum]

Yeah, there is a huge difference in how the AI contacts you in SP and how often they do so in MP (if they ever). I have found them to treat you the same though, so if you play a SP game and don't make deals or friendships or w/e they will hate you fairly quickly and same in MP. The difference is in MP, YOU THE PLAYER must reach out to them for everything. If they want you in a war, YOU have to contact them. If they want to trade, YOU have to contact them. Research agreement, YOU had better call them up first. Now I do notice that they exchange agreements with the other AI Civs quite frequently so I wonder if they disabled AI driven human interaction to speed up turn times since no one wants to be in the middle of a skirmish or on the defensive and be bombarded by 7 Civs demands before they can even click to move a unit.

[istry555]

They do declare war but much less frequently than in SP. And tossing away the AI not contacting you as it's your responsibility is a poor excuse. There are plenty of instances in SP where the AI would ask for a deal it would never agree to if you proposed it, and if there is a deal you want are you really supposed to check every turn until they finally agree? Also saying they removed it to speed up the game is lame because even Civ IV had the option to deal with AI interaction in MP after you moved your units (and it could easily functionally like how other human players contact you, providing a notification you need to click on before the diplomacy screen shows up).

This is all a moot argument because even if they do contact each other (which I'm still wary about), the AI in MP games performs worse than in SP games. Compare the two under similar circumstances and you'll easily see the AI in MP expands less, builds less units, and is behind in tech.

[MikkOwl]

You had to enable them one by one before the patch too (I know from vast experience).

[cato12]

ive enjoyed playin civ 5 sp but mp has been a major disapointment. still have some hope that it will be sorted but the lack of any official comments on this forum doesnt install much faith.

[shozum]

They do declare war but much less frequently than in SP. And tossing away the AI not contacting you as it's your responsibility is a poor excuse. There are plenty of instances in SP where the AI would ask for a deal it would never agree to if you proposed it, and if there is a deal you want are you really supposed to check every turn until they finally agree? Also saying they removed it to speed up the game is lame because even Civ IV had the option to deal with AI interaction in MP after you moved your units (and it could easily functionally like how other human players contact you, providing a notification you need to click on before the diplomacy screen shows up).

This is all a moot argument because even if they do contact each other (which I'm still wary about), the AI in MP games performs worse than in SP games. Compare the two under similar circumstances and you'll easily see the AI in MP expands less, builds less units, and is behind in tech.

I'm just noting the AI behaviour here and how to work around it, not condoning how it was coded or the reasoning behind it. The idea that they not initiate contact with a player is a poor choice in my opinion, but the only justification for it that I could wrap my head around was the same reasoning behind removing MP animations. Speed of gameplay. I feel that NOT having the AI contact you breaks the immersion immensely and I hope it's patched at some point.

[istry555]

Sorry if I came off harsh. I'm just so frustrated by the lack of such basic things in MP. But then again, when the mode doesn't even have a standard saving feature how can we really expect it to have anything else?

Sigh, I too hope it's eventually patched and not just ignored.

[civdiss]

I'm just noting the AI behaviour here and how to work around it, not condoning how it was coded or the reasoning behind it. The idea that they not initiate contact with a player is a poor choice in my opinion, but the only justification for it that I could wrap my head around was the same reasoning behind removing MP animations. Speed of gameplay. I feel that NOT having the AI contact you breaks the immersion immensely and I hope it's patched at some point.

"Reasoning behind removing MP animations???" lol what a joke..thanks!

actually there was no reasoning and no removal and saying otherwise is just wishful thinking. What actually happened is that they run out of time and money and they just never did the programming to deliver a finished MP product as it was in CIV IV BTS.

Designing MP was a no-brainer "make it exactly as in CIV IV BTS" but they didn't do it I guess because of incompetence and miscalculation of the importance of MP to certain customers. They just didn't bother and apparently don't bother still. So in this light your statement above can only be taken as a joke.