Change name and/or rules for Diplomatic Victory

[florries]

Hi everyone!

I like much of CIV 5, it has potential, but many problems. As so many posts have already been made on technical and other issues, I will not add yet another one. But I'd like to make one strong complaint:

How can you call it a "Diplomatic Victory" when all you have to do is grab some extra land and buy the votes of a number of City-States (=puppets)? This kind of "victory" is an aggressive MONEY/power based victory, and as such - it is WAY too easy... !!!

Either add the rule that at least ONE of the A1 / opponents in multiplayer has to vote for you to win a diplomatic victory. Or rename it to "Merchant Victory" (or similar) and make it harder to win!

Because of this, the fun in the diplomacy is also partly gone compared to CIV4, there is not as much "friendship"-making, especially towards the end - that used to make a lot of fun, everyone trying with different strategies on the diplomatic level =)

As long as it stays the way it is, at least I will keep the Diplomatic Victory turned off, since it no real challenge to win it, if you know the game at least a bit.


Best wishes
Susan

[Hannibal67]

Is it even possible to get an AI to vote for you in this game? I agree with your main point. I played my roommate the other day, and as soon as he got a tech lead on me, i switched to money...money...money. I bee-lined my tech to the U.N., bought off 12 city states, and won the game. But it really felt cheesy. It wasn't a satisfying victory at all. It felt more like I cheated.

[SamBC]

AI civs will vote for you if they were wiped out and you liberated them.

[tfordp]

It was only a few hours ago I posted in another thread:


I drop the CSs way down too, just so there´s not enough for a diplomatic win without at least one other AI vote. Makes for a very interesting game.

Do that, and the only way to achieve it is by liberating at least one AI.

[TheAntika]

Maybe we need a little remake of the current U.N. system. The U.N. should have more possibilities (like in civ 4) and every civ shouldn't be able to vote for itself. This would make it more important to have good relations with other civs. But again - the precondition for such a system would be a good diplomatic system - which we simply do not have at the moment...

[steveg700]

Like so many complaints about Civ V AI, this is all goes back to the design wherein all AI civ's play to win (even if they do so badly). At some point, they all turn hostile towards everyone else. By the time the UN is out, there's little chance of having anyone want to do anything other than wipe you off the planet.

To play devil's advocate though, I'm not sure what brilliant diplomatic stroke would convince a civ to vote for you as the world's best civ instead of themselves....unless, of course, you bribed them, which brings us back to the central complaint of Civ V's current diplo victory condition.

[TheAntika]

I know there are some people who think that this current diplomacy is working out fine, because the AI is just "trying to win" (I read the forum). Ok, that's your opinion, enjoy your game. I think that diplomacy is totally broken at the moment. It's impossible to ally with other civs, we have the denouncement chain reaction, we are all bloodthirsty warmongerers. That's my opinion. I just could repeat myself over and over again. I just hope that diplomacy will get fixed soon.

[tfordp]

...
To play devil's advocate though, I'm not sure what brilliant diplomatic stroke would convince a civ to vote for you as the world's best civ instead of themselves....unless, of course, you bribed them, which brings us back to the central complaint of Civ V's current diplo victory condition.

There is none. The AI will always vote for itself. This was known before release. The only way an AI will vote for you is if you liberate one of their former cities, and in doing so bring them back into the game after their destruction. Unfortunately, they are rarely grateful and you will still be a warmonger, but you´ve got their vote.

[Sifer2]

I agree its stupid. The Diplomacy was one of the most poorly done revamps coming from Civ 4. Like other said already they did it to make this one more of a board game instead of a Sim where the AI is just an opponent not a real Leader with likes/dislikes. I suppose now its actually possible to win Diplomatic in Multiplayer but I doubt anyone cares since if you do win it feels like a hollow victory as topic creator said.

[florries]

To play devil's advocate though, I'm not sure what brilliant diplomatic stroke would convince a civ to vote for you as the world's best civ instead of themselves....unless, of course, you bribed them, which brings us back to the central complaint of Civ V's current diplo victory condition.

Well, I definitely remember CIV4 games where smaller Civs, those without possibility to win themselves, would vote for me if I had been really nice to them = being their ally, making good trade, always having open borders, helping them when they were at war (even if early in history). And being very smart about who to work with, and who not, at different stages of the game, not to piss your allies off. If all that was met, small Civs voted for me in the end, often.
I can also remember Catherine winning over me this way once, like 5 turns before I had Cultural victory =)